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RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 11:35:15 AM   
punchdrunk


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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107468/

Aparently he directed Madam Butterfly in 1993, before watching "spider" i couldnt imagine him directing this, has anyone seen this (also is IMDB accurate? )  

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Post #: 31
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 11:41:13 AM   
stuartbannerman


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Joined: 30/9/2005
IMDB is very accurate. He did indeed direct M Butterfly.
ive not seen it though and suspect its just a run of the mill but beautiful shot version of the classic opera. I cant imagine that it would be an opera filled with Mugwumps, transformations, and people having sex with other peoples leg wounds.

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Post #: 32
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 12:28:19 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: stuartbannerman

The definitive Cronenberg films are Videodrome, Scanners,Crash.
Agree?


You must include Dead Ringers in that list, Stuart, which for me is probably his most moving film, integrating his major themes whilst avoiding all the frequent accusations of coldness flung at Cronenberg in his career. I've never cried at a film, but I nearly did when I saw this one.

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Post #: 33
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 1:16:34 PM   
Peter A. Quinn


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 I'd say yep, but I'd also add The Fly to that list. I reckon it features the best performances of all Cronenberg's films. I just finished watching Scanners, and while it's well-written and slickly directed, the film suffers because of leading man Stephen Lack's wooden performance. Michael Ironside was top, and you could look at it as a high-brow version of X-Men, with good mutants vs. evil mutants...but I'm over simplifying here. Next up is Videodrome...

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Post #: 34
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 1:51:56 PM   
Brundlesflies


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuartbannerman

IMDB is very accurate. He did indeed direct M Butterfly.
ive not seen it though and suspect its just a run of the mill but beautiful shot version of the classic opera. I cant imagine that it would be an opera filled with Mugwumps, transformations, and people having sex with other peoples leg wounds.


Cronenberg made M Butterfly following on from his adaptation of Naked Lunch. It isn't actually a version of the Puccinni opera, rather an adaptation of a play by David Hwang (thanks google!). It stars Jeremy Irons as Frenchman who finds out that his Chinese lover/mistress of many years is actually a man.

As one of the probable few who have seen it, I certainly wouldn't place it very highly in the Cronenberg canon, it's an 'interesting' film, but not a particulary gripping one.

quote:


ORIGINAL: stuartbannerman

The definitive Cronenberg films are Videodrome, Scanners,Crash.
Agree?

quote:
ORIGINAL: Dirty Hartigan
You must include Dead Ringers in that list, Stuart, which for me is probably his most moving film, integrating his major themes whilst avoiding all the frequent accusations of coldness flung at Cronenberg in his career. I've never cried at a film, but I nearly did when I saw this one.


Got to agree with Dirty Hartigan on this. No retrospective of Cronenberg's films could be considered without the inclusion of Dead Ringers, probably my personal favorite. I would also include The Brood from his early works. The first of his films (IMO) which combines his recurring themes of science, mutation etc with a maturing emotional edge.


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Post #: 35
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 2:06:34 PM   
stuartbannerman


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And we cant talk about David Cronenberg without mention his long time collaberator Carol Spier. A fantastic production designer. Theres an excellant 50 minute documentary on the eXistenZ DVD about her work with Cronenberg and it gave me an insight into the level of detail a production designer has to cope with.

Especially interesting is her work on Dead Ringers where she had to cope with the split screen works and how it affected her set design decisions

< Message edited by stuartbannerman -- 6/9/2006 2:07:35 PM >

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Post #: 36
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 3:58:10 PM   
Brundlesflies


Posts: 591
Joined: 30/9/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuartbannerman

And we cant talk about David Cronenberg without mention his long time collaberator Carol Spier. A fantastic production designer. Theres an excellant 50 minute documentary on the eXistenZ DVD about her work with Cronenberg and it gave me an insight into the level of detail a production designer has to cope with.

Especially interesting is her work on Dead Ringers where she had to cope with the split screen works and how it affected her set design decisions


Agreed. It's interesting to note that Cronenberg has developed a core group of collaborators who work on the majority of his films, such as Howard Shore, now famous for his musical score for LOTR, but a regular in the Cronenberg collective sincethe early days of The Brood.

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Post #: 37
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 4:04:21 PM   
sharkboy


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From: Belfast
 We all know that he was approached to direct Return of the Jedi, but turned it down.  He was also in the hot seat for Total Recall before Verhoeven got his hands on it.  I think it's fair to say that both would have been very different movies had he stayed behind the camera.

So here's a question for fellow fans of the man - which movie would you like to see a Cronenberg version of?  For me, the obvious choice is Alien, with its recurrent themes of metamorphosis and techno-organic imagery.  Scott's version is great, but I'd love to have seen what magic the quiet Canadian could work with Giger's creation.

The "Cronenberg for Alien 5" campaign starts here!

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Post #: 38
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 4:13:44 PM   
Brundlesflies


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 I'd have loved to have seen his take on Total Recall. I mean, I enjoy the Verhoevan version for what it is, a big, brash Arnie actioner, but it would have been great to see what twists and turns Cronenberg could have wrought on the whole paranoid fantasy angle. Apparently his version was too 'Philip K Dick' for the producers

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Post #: 39
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 4:54:55 PM   
stuartbannerman


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Cronenberg for Alien 5, hmmm Where do i sign........fantastic idea....imagine a slow motion chest bursting scene ......yuck.

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Post #: 40
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 6:14:28 PM   
bubs


Posts: 8051
Joined: 18/7/2006
From: South Africa
quote:

ORIGINAL: punchdrunk

quote:

ORIGINAL: bubs

I like Cronenberg alot, so I think I will actually purchase the Criterion disc. Actually, maybe I should rent it first.


Well disect his practice, or critique a film of his and maybe you might feature in Empire (the point of this thread).

What were your favourite films and what made him such a good director in your view? 
The first Cronenberg film I saw was Dead Ringers, after watching it I felt deeply disturbed. The Fly turned me into a Cronenberg fan and still haven't bought it, both films showed his talent as a director and was really impressed with his direction for Dead Ringers. The only Cronenberg films I actually own (so far) are Dead Ringers and A History Of Violence, but I'm planning on purchasing Naked Lunch, Videodrome(Criterion), and The Fly. Anyone else agree with the purchases I'm planning on getting, are they worth the time and effort, I know for sure that I'm getting The Fly.


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Post #: 41
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 8:37:58 PM   
Joe


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From: Cork, Ireland
 It must also be remembered that he has a strong sense of his own nationality, giving a distinct feeling of "Canadianess". He resisted the lure of Hollywood for many years (Shivers was controversially funded by the Canadian government, who didn't know what kind of film they were making!).

"Body horror" readings of his earlier Canadian films can be seen as metophorical of his aversion to US culture - a foreign parasite that invades the body of Canadian Culture and takes over.

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Post #: 42
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 6/9/2006 10:13:08 PM   
Boring Prophet


Posts: 3030
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Dublin, Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

We all know that he was approached to direct Return of the Jedi, but turned it down.  He was also in the hot seat for Total Recall before Verhoeven got his hands on it.  I think it's fair to say that both would have been very different movies had he stayed behind the camera.

So here's a question for fellow fans of the man - which movie would you like to see a Cronenberg version of?  For me, the obvious choice is Alien, with its recurrent themes of metamorphosis and techno-organic imagery.  Scott's version is great, but I'd love to have seen what magic the quiet Canadian could work with Giger's creation.

The "Cronenberg for Alien 5" campaign starts here!


Oh, Alien, definitely. Let's see, what else... an X-Files episode would have been nice, Toy Story comes to mind for some reason, he probably could have made a bloody good job of any of Park Chan-Wook's revenge trilogy (even though they were great to begin with), but I suppose he kind of did that with A History of Violence.

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Post #: 43
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 8:30:39 AM   
Indio


Posts: 7132
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: London
 I always find Cronenberg's direction a bit too cold and clinical for my liking and so find that I don't really feel that much of a connection or empathy with the characters.

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Post #: 44
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 8:39:27 AM   
Peter A. Quinn


Posts: 7320
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

We all know that he was approached to direct Return of the Jedi, but turned it down.


It's news to me, sharkboy. I knew David Lynch had been asked to direct Jedi, but from reading the magazines of the time, Cronenberg would have been busy with Videodrome and then The Dead Zone. Where did you hear that? I'm not questioning your knowledge, but I'm just curious to know where you heard it-I thought I had all the goss from that period! Very interesting...

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Post #: 45
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 8:46:46 AM   
Brundlesflies


Posts: 591
Joined: 30/9/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Indio

I always find Cronenberg's direction a bit too cold and clinical for my liking and so find that I don't really feel that much of a connection or empathy with the characters.


I think this is an accusation often levelled at Cronenberg, unfairly IMO. I agree that there is a certain detached sense about the way he views characters and situations, the camera acting almost as a scientist observing from a distance.
However, there is still an emotional attachment to the characters and the situations: think of Jeff Goldblum in The Fly, buried under layers of heavy prosthetics, yet there is an intensity in that film that most straight dramas would die for. Also Jeremy Irons in Dead Ringers, Walken in Dead Zone and Viggo Mortensen in History of Violence. I would argue that all these characters conjure a sense of empathy, despite the sometimes bizarre situations they are in.



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Post #: 46
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 8:51:09 AM   
Peter A. Quinn


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 I just looked it up on IMDb-it just says "David Cronenberg was offered the chance to direct." That's all. Does anyone have any details? That's really interesting! indio, your view of Cronenberg's films sounds like why a lot of people don't like Kubrick films, either. I find  The Dead Zone, The Fly, and Crash incredibly moving. Perhaps it's just my perverse sensiblities. My least favourite of his films would be M Butterfly. Do we really need to see Jeremy Irons playing yet another uptight Tory getting his rocks off again? At least Cronenberg made Crash after that...

< Message edited by Peter A. Quinn -- 7/9/2006 8:53:24 AM >

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Post #: 47
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 8:59:18 AM   
Brundlesflies


Posts: 591
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: ..telepod one to telepod two
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter A. Quinn

I just looked it up on IMDb-it just says "David Cronenberg was offered the chance to direct." That's all. Does anyone have any details? That's really interesting!


As I recall, Lucas offered Jedi to pretty much any director with a decent track record who wasn't part of the Director's Guild of America. This was due to him falling out with them and quitting over credit issues or something.
Can you imagine a Cronenberg version of Jedi  

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Post #: 48
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 10:26:58 AM   
Peter A. Quinn


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 Cheers, Brundlesflies! I can imagine Cronenberg's version of the Sarlaac pit as a giant vagina...

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Post #: 49
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 10:40:11 AM   
Brundlesflies


Posts: 591
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: ..telepod one to telepod two
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter A. Quinn

Cheers, Brundlesflies! I can imagine Cronenberg's version of the Sarlaac pit as a giant vagina...


Now you mention it......



not such a leap of imagination there!


< Message edited by Brundlesflies -- 7/9/2006 10:43:56 AM >

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Post #: 50
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 12:16:03 PM   
punchdrunk


Posts: 7817
Joined: 14/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe

It must also be remembered that he has a strong sense of his own nationality, giving a distinct feeling of "Canadianess". He resisted the lure of Hollywood for many years (Shivers was controversially funded by the Canadian government, who didn't know what kind of film they were making!).

"Body horror" readings of his earlier Canadian films can be seen as metophorical of his aversion to US culture - a foreign parasite that invades the body of Canadian Culture and takes over.

with all the comic book adaptions going around.
Maybe he could do a childrens/but aimed at adults film about a famous young Canadian.  
Directed by David Cronenberg?

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Post #: 51
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 1:39:44 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkboy

We all know that he was approached to direct Return of the Jedi, but turned it down.  He was also in the hot seat for Total Recall before Verhoeven got his hands on it.  I think it's fair to say that both would have been very different movies had he stayed behind the camera.

So here's a question for fellow fans of the man - which movie would you like to see a Cronenberg version of?  For me, the obvious choice is Alien, with its recurrent themes of metamorphosis and techno-organic imagery.  Scott's version is great, but I'd love to have seen what magic the quiet Canadian could work with Giger's creation.

The "Cronenberg for Alien 5" campaign starts here!


I think he was offered the fourth Alien film in the past, but turned it down as he knew he wouldn't be given the creative control to do what he really wanted with it.

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Post #: 52
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 2:11:31 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6031
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter A. Quinn

I just looked it up on IMDb-it just says "David Cronenberg was offered the chance to direct." That's all. Does anyone have any details?


I do remember reading that it was all tied into Cronenberg's relationship with cinematographer Peter Suschitzky (sp?) who was DOP on Episode V, as well as being Cronenberg's friend and (from '88) cinematographer of choice.  After Ep V wrapped and they began to hunt for directors for VI, Suschitzky put Cronenberg's name in the frame and formal advances were made.  Though with 2 movies that year already, Cronemnberg's schedule was just too full to accommodate another.

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Post #: 53
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 2:56:21 PM   
matty_b


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 Would a Cronenberg version of The Thing be susbstantially different from Carpenters.

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Post #: 54
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 4:03:43 PM   
MartyW


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom
 Thats a very good question......maybe Cronenberg's vision of it would be even more darker and disgustingly gorier but i dont know really, Carpenter did an outstanding job of directing an alien horror film filled with the most blood and gutsy special effects that still hold up extremely well today!

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Post #: 55
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 4:07:02 PM   
stuartbannerman


Posts: 1088
Joined: 30/9/2005
I doubt Cronenbergs version would have been much different to the Carpenter version. I would like to have however seen the David Cronenberg version of Spiderman. He originally had a go at that story. Then again, who in filmland didnt.

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Post #: 56
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 4:11:13 PM   
MartyW


Posts: 204
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, United Kingdom
 Shivers was probably as far as i can remember the first ever Cronenberg movie iv seen and it still scares the hell out of me today as it did all those years wen i first watched it when i was jus a kid... It really gets under your skin and sends shivers down your spine......the end scene of when our hero gets dragged into the swimming pool is what kept me up all night! Cronenberg has the skill of making a horror film that will stay with you afterwards for a very long time and creep the hell outta you!!!

< Message edited by MartyW -- 7/9/2006 4:12:15 PM >

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Post #: 57
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 8:41:00 PM   
sharkboy


Posts: 6031
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast
quote:

ORIGINAL: stuartbannerman

I doubt Cronenbergs version would have been much different to the Carpenter version.


I agree, except for a Howard Shore soundtrack instead of Carpenter's own eerie electronica!


_____________________________

WWLD?

Every time we think we have measured our capacity to meet a challenge, we look up and we're reminded that that capacity may well be limitless

I left in love, in laughter, and in truth and wherever truth, love and laughter abide, I am there in spirit.

(in reply to stuartbannerman)
Post #: 58
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 7/9/2006 8:48:58 PM   
Megalo-who?


Posts: 1687
Joined: 30/9/2005
Yeah Cronenberg's directing style is quite similar to that of Carpenters old work I have noticed.

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Post #: 59
RE: DAVID CRONENBERG - 9/9/2006 1:52:16 AM   
djsmokingjam


Posts: 85
Joined: 30/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe

"Body horror" readings of his earlier Canadian films can be seen as metophorical of his aversion to US culture - a foreign parasite that invades the body of Canadian Culture and takes over.


An interesting reading, and "his aversion to US culture" certainly reaches its apeotheosis in A History Of Violence, turning an average graphic novel into a deconstructionist contemporary Western that dares to have a dialogue with its audience about its hero worship of violent figures.  (The title isn't just referring to Tom's history, of course, but America's.)  I always laugh when people call that Cronenberg's most mainstream film, sounding almost like he sold out with it, because it's a thrillingly intellectual film that I know turned a lot of regular moviegoers off.  For all its gloppy effects, The Fly is much more commercial - which in itself just goes to prove Cronenberg will never make an "easy" film.  And all the better for it!  Cronenberg is probably the best director working today at combining the cerebral and the visceral.

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Post #: 60
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