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RE: Can anyone tell me... - 21/8/2006 8:43:13 PM   
Cuchulainn


Posts: 5755
Joined: 18/2/2006
From: Hell
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dances with Weasels

A MacGuffin is a plot device that has little to do with the actual plot itself,its just the motivation for what happens.Most recent famous Mac Guffins are "The Brief Case" in " Pulp Fiction" that nobody knows whats in it but drives everyone crazy trying to guess and "The Rabbits Foot" in MI3 which is a WMD but how it does that again is anyone guess.So you see George maybe on very tricky ground in that Indie as an archeologist does go for very real objects that have powers ie Ark,Stones,Grail which pretty much drive the plot and story.So you can see my misgivings but ***t I hope I'm wrong.
Maybe Lucas doesn't know what a McGuffin is either...

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Post #: 31
RE: Can anyone tell me... - 21/8/2006 8:49:48 PM   
Dances with Weasels

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 18/8/2006
You know Cuchulainn you've just broken my heart with that thought!

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Post #: 32
RE: Can anyone tell me... - 21/8/2006 9:37:53 PM   
Cuchulainn


Posts: 5755
Joined: 18/2/2006
From: Hell
Take a stiff shot of brandy and lie down for ten minutes-you'll be right as rain.Failing that,my apologies for that callous remark.

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Post #: 33
hope hes not to old - 21/8/2006 10:57:19 PM   
danbo1138


Posts: 7861
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Always Outnumberd Never Outgunned!
time for a new indy ala bond,whilst i'll watch it i cant help thinking he's clinging to his youth

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Post #: 34
Indiana Jones IV... Commies? - 21/8/2006 10:57:51 PM   
Private Hudson


Posts: 1842
Joined: 30/9/2005
Yep, this is what we want!

The McGuffin is only a plot device, so who cares?

I wonder what it will be though? It obviously has been done before in some other movie?

Atlantis?
El Dorado?
Shangri-La?

(I know they are places rather than objects, but I can't think of any just now!)

Oh wait, Roswell and the Alien Ship?

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Post #: 35
no time for love dr jones! - 21/8/2006 11:14:52 PM   
clarkkent

 

Posts: 761
Joined: 20/7/2006
Three things i wanna say:
1 No annoying children! That bloody boy annoyed teh crap out of me in the last crusade!
2 Sean Connery! He hasnt done anythign for a while an it'd be nice to see him on screen again
3 (this is gonna spark controversey i know but...) No Nazi's! they've had they're day. Try and come up with another villian, maybe an ancient cult or a tribe of amazonion warriors dressed in skimpi bikini's led by Angelina jolie who's bikini slips...i think i'll stop there! But you get the point...do something a little more interesting.
And if they fuck it up and do a 'phantom menace' im gonna kick some arse! And the Mcguffin? I really hope they steer clear of the whole Mary Magdelin/ Da Vinci code stuff! Thats been done to death lately!

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Post #: 36
RE: Can anyone tell me... - 21/8/2006 11:44:02 PM   
Dances with Weasels

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 18/8/2006
 Thanks for the good advice Mr C, I actually did the next best thing and watched  "Raiders" with a cold one(  or two or three)  .Damn thats one fine film!!!.Why in the name of all thats good and great in cinema can't we have more like that!!!Its been far too long.All credit to Empire for raising the memories again.Those covers look strong enough to put on the wall! Instead they will join the hundred odd issues stacked in the cupboard. Lets hope the next year or so has an article that features  "Raiders as a Lost Art" not "Raiders as a Last Fart!!!".  

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Post #: 37
No Parodying On Perfection... - 22/8/2006 2:58:01 AM   
El-Branden Brazil

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/10/2005
I also just rewatched Raiders...and what a fine film it is. Where this succeeds and the sequels fail is in tone and respect to character. In the sequels, especially in The Last Crusade, all the characters become parodies. Indy had a real life gravitas in Raiders, but becomes hyper-real as Ford becomes too comfortable in the role, overemphasising the character's traits in the sequels. Sallah, becomes a bumbling buffoon, as does Marcus Brody; both of which were beautifully performed by both actors in Raiders, as characters of noble qualities.

As much as I love all these movies (and YES, Temple Of Doom has miraculously grown to be my favourite of the sequels), I hope....nay pray...that Spielberg brings some of the sobriety of his later films into this next Indy chapter. I am not saying Indy with the tone of Munich, but rather just a touch of seriousness, as was present in Raiders, which removes the overly comic book antics of the sequels.

Steve, give us a job!

< Message edited by El-Branden Brazil -- 22/8/2006 3:00:07 AM >

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Post #: 38
RE: Indy IV Opening... as I imagine it - 22/8/2006 3:12:10 AM   
El-Branden Brazil

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: El-Branden Brazil

The Paramount Logo melts into an embroidered version of a "Home Sweet Home " type framed image in a simple bedroom.  Indiana Jones is dressed in a suit. The music is dramatic. Panic is on his face, and he jams a chair against the door. Outside, footsteps are getting closer. Indy eyes frantically about the room, wiping sweat from his brow.

There's a knock at the door and Indy grunts. We now here the familiar voice of Henry Jones Sr (Sean Connery) outside. He says: "It's time, Junior."

Indy takes a breathe, removes the chair and unlocks the door. He sees his father and hugs him. They go downstairs and there is a crowd of people lined up, with a pulpit at the end.

Sallah and his family are there, as is a grown-up Short Round. Indy walks towards the pulpit, and he looks around. Who is he marrying, Marion Ravenwood or Willy Scott? He peers at the crowd, and there is Marion looking beautiful. She winks with a knowing smile... The familiar wedding music begins, and Willy enters, dressed in a gorgeous white veil....


On honeymoon in San Francisco, Indy leaves the hotel they are staying at to buy Willy a present (flowers), as she showers.  When he returns, he finds that she is nowhere to be found.    He searches the hotel in desperation. As  he checks a fire escape staircase that leads to a dirty back alley, he sees a black car sped off.

While he waits for information, a mysterious squat of a man, similar to Peter Lorre, arrives with a message that also contains a map of a site in Jerusalem.  Indy immediately recognises it as the Holy Mount in Jerusalem.  He also recognises the name of a 19th Century adventurer, who barely escaped with his life, after exploring the tunnels that lay beneath the mosque, in search for the Key Of Solomon.

Indy picks up the little squat man, and holds him against the wall.  "Where is she?" he screams at the man.

"This will achieve nothing, Dr. Jones.   We must hurry."

Indy contacts Marion and tells her to meet him in Paris...

< Message edited by El-Branden Brazil -- 22/8/2006 4:42:39 AM >

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Post #: 39
- 22/8/2006 5:57:32 AM   
badsanta

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 15/5/2006
From: Shanghai
Raiders is the greatest action film of all time; Temple of Doom was a lot of fun, but not as good; The Last Crusade was crap: a watered down Raiders. I only hope IV is an improvement.

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Post #: 40
Last Crusade crap ? - 22/8/2006 9:13:55 AM   
scotsdiver

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 30/9/2005
you can hardly call the Last Crusade crap. It was so much fun it was almost a guilty pleasure.........and thats the whole point of these films. theyre not meant to be realistic, or deep, theyre pure escapist entertainment.

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Post #: 41
- 22/8/2006 9:32:52 AM   
mlavagna

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/12/2005
I heard a rumour that the movie's gonna revolve around the lost city of Atlantis, or some place similar. Indiana also has a son who he only just discovers exists during the course of the movie.

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Post #: 42
- 22/8/2006 9:47:11 AM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
To be frank, Last Crusade is the best of the series. Nonetheless Indiana is always a great character due to his human frailties, in all three films. With Ford's ageing, this will certainly work once more.

As for villains, well, Nazis are out due to this being set in the 50s to make Ford's age make sense. Villains don't matter as long as Indy has an interesting point: "It belongs in a museum!"

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Post #: 43
- 22/8/2006 10:49:30 AM   
mlavagna

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/12/2005
It'd be funny seeing Indie having to do the opposite. A kind of role reversal. That is, Indie having to steal something from a museum which belongs to a people in order to return it to them and its rightful place.

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Post #: 44
I met... - 22/8/2006 5:00:11 PM   
El-Branden Brazil

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/10/2005
I was lucky enough to work with Pat Roach on Three Wishes For Jamie and I met Terry Richards (Arab Swordsman) while working on Robin Of Sherwood as a kid.  As an Indy fanatic, I was delighted to chat with both gents in my youth.  They were very patient.  I remember a crew member on Robin wearing a trilby and a leather jacket just to tease Terry Richards.

Just thought I would share that...

In the meantime, pop over to my Indy-inspired travels at www.mystictraveller.blogspot.com


< Message edited by El-Branden Brazil -- 22/8/2006 5:39:30 PM >

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Post #: 45
CURE GASTROPARESIS - 22/8/2006 11:51:47 PM   
dan8210

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/5/2006
new indy can not and will not live up to expectations. especially after the new starwars trilogy. however its still gonna b made as hollywood running out of ideas and this is a bankable blockbuster. i'll still go and see a new average indy movie (feel guilty admitting). its gotta b better than tomb raider and the mummy right? mayb spielberg can inject his magic? maybe an idea is film focusing on indys son and harrison ford (indy) plays father kinda like sean connery did with harrison ford if u know wot i mean. itd b funny if indy had twin sons or something- new indie would turn in 2 goonies or maybe tweenies ;)

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Post #: 46
CURE GASTROPARESIS - 22/8/2006 11:53:28 PM   
dan8210

 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/5/2006
new indy can not and will not live up to expectations. especially after the new starwars trilogy. however its still gonna b made as hollywood running out of ideas and this is a bankable blockbuster. i'll still go and see a new average indy movie (feel guilty admitting). its gotta b better than tomb raider and the mummy right? mayb spielberg can inject his magic? maybe an idea is film focusing on indys son and harrison ford (indy) plays father kinda like sean connery did with harrison ford if u know wot i mean. itd b funny if indy had twin sons or something- new indie would turn in 2 goonies or maybe tweenies ;)

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Post #: 47
RE: Indy IV Opening... as I imagine it - 23/8/2006 4:21:12 AM   
Violet Indy

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: Gold Coast, Australia
NO!!!!!!!!!!

Marion should be Indy's wife!

As I say on the Raven Indy forum:

BRING BACK MARION!!!
BRING BACK MARION!!!
BRING BACK MARION!!!

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Post #: 48
RE: Indy IV Opening... as I imagine it - 23/8/2006 9:34:12 AM   
El-Branden Brazil

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 7/10/2005
I couldn't agree more that Marion Ravenwood is one of cinema's greatest heroines, but while Kate Capshaw is Mrs Spielberg, and showing a lot of interest to reprise the role of Willy, I think she will end up Indy's wife.

However, if you read my little imagined set-up piece, what will happen while Marion is helping Indy in Paris, as he searches for Willy and the Key Of Solomon?  Shame my tale will not be the film. 

(in reply to Violet Indy)
Post #: 49
"I've got a bad feeling about this" - 23/8/2006 4:08:31 PM   
boredbluekoala

 

Posts: 421
Joined: 23/8/2006
as much as we would all love to see Indiana Jones back in action riding into danger to the sound of John williams iconic score, I think it's just been too long a gap since the last one. Audiences will not be particularly interested in the return of this character in much the same way that Superman failed to inspire ,despite being the most satisfying and welcome blockbuster of the summer. George Lucas is absolutely right to mention the Phantom menace in the same breath as a potential new Indy film, since it will doubtlessly garner similar fan and press anticipation that the finished product could never live up to.Perhaps the answer is like with Bond and Batman, do a remake with a new cast , No new film is better than a crap new film overloaded with hideous amounts of rubbish cgi (and with Lucas producing you know it would be) and ageing stars attempting to portray the character they were, at best reluctant to play in the first place and loathe to have to bother with now. Like with the Star wars films, which I really do feel have lost some of their grandeur and status as a result of the prequels, a new Indy film is going to be a tough sell to the generation that grew up with him, and an even tougher sell to those who have never heard of him, but eagerly await another installment of pirates of the carribean. Perhaps we should be happy with what we have already got , 3 great movies from the 80's that were of their time and fondly remembered and should remain there. P.S. this rant is aimed at the would be producers of the Hobbit (again, if it ever happens) don't leave it to long, before our tastses change and we all get bored of the concept

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Post #: 50
RE: "I've got a bad feeling about this" - 23/8/2006 8:48:35 PM   
mlavagna

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/12/2005
I don't think Indie 4 will be as dissapointing as Superman Returns.

At least we're getting the star back for the sequel. Listen, if the script is as good as the previous films I have no doubt this movie will be as good as the other three. I have confidence in Lucas, Speilberg and Ford with this movie. The only questionable thing to me is the quality of the script which I have yet to see. Also, I don't think it matters that there has been a sixteen year gap since the last one. Sure, kids probably don't recognise the character as we once did back in the day but everyone over the age of 20 will want to see this. For the kids that are yet to be introduced to this, they'll probably screen the previous films on tv at the time of release, and don't forget the DVDs.

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Post #: 51
Whoop-de-doo! - 23/8/2006 10:38:00 PM   
thechidz


Posts: 17
Joined: 11/2/2006
Wahey! Can't wait for this one! Another George Lucas movie so soon after Revenge of the Sith? We are truly blessed. How, I wonder, will George choose to piss on the memory of this particular franchise? Indiana Jones and the Border Dispute? Digital Jones and the CGI Tax Inspector? Fuck me, the anticipation's almost too much to bear.

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Post #: 52
Whoop-de-doo! - 23/8/2006 10:38:15 PM   
thechidz


Posts: 17
Joined: 11/2/2006
Wahey! Can't wait for this one! Another George Lucas movie so soon after Revenge of the Sith? We are truly blessed. How, I wonder, will George choose to piss on the memory of this particular franchise? Indiana Jones and the Border Dispute? Digital Jones and the CGI Tax Inspector? Fuck me, the anticipation's almost too much to bear.

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Post #: 53
Whoop-de-doo! - 23/8/2006 10:38:34 PM   
thechidz


Posts: 17
Joined: 11/2/2006
Wahey! Can't wait for this one! Another George Lucas movie so soon after Revenge of the Sith? We are truly blessed. How, I wonder, will George choose to piss on the memory of this particular franchise? Indiana Jones and the Border Dispute? Digital Jones and the CGI Tax Inspector? Fuck me, the anticipation's almost too much to bear.

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Post #: 54
"It's not the years, it's the mileage" - 24/8/2006 12:34:07 AM   
boredbluekoala

 

Posts: 421
Joined: 23/8/2006
films from this era of cinema were great , perhaps because of the lack of computer effects that make everything seem so unremarkable, or because of the "in camera" stunt work that really does make you sit up and gasp in awe, but when a belated sequel is made so many years after the last one, you just know it's gonna suck. The accepted law of sequels is that they cost twice as much and are half as good, now as a movie fan I welcome sequels as much as the next guy, I love to see more of the same characters, but can anyone point to any other sequel that waited this long to be filmed and that was actually worthwhile?

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Post #: 55
Let it Go Shhhhon! - 24/8/2006 8:37:28 AM   
badsanta

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 15/5/2006
From: Shanghai
Reasons for The Last Crusade being crap:
1. the pre-credit sequence which neatly reveals that Indy's fear of snakes; acquirement of scar and hat; and taste for the whip as a handy weapon all took place in one five minute adventure

2. the continuity error that causes Harrison Ford's hair (at the back) to grown and then shorten during the bike chase

3. the crappy back-projection (Raiders put Ford in a REAL plane; no fuzzy lines)

4. the tank chase which is pale imitation of the truck chase in Raiders

5. the supernatural element that worked so well in Raiders (and Temple of Doom) but seems tacked on and implausible (where the pyrotechnics at the end of Raiders don't)

In its own right, the film IS fun; but compared with the other two it's pretty damn limp. I've seen it a few times in the hope that I've been wrong - I haven't.

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Post #: 56
Let It Go Shhhon - 24/8/2006 11:44:19 PM   
badsanta

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 15/5/2006
From: Shanghai
Reasons for The Last Crusade being crap:
1. the pre-credit sequence which tells us that Indy's fear of snakes; acquirement of scar and hat; and taste for the whip as a handy tool all took place conveniently in one five minute adventure

2. the continuity error that causes Harrison Ford's hair (at the back) to grow and then shorten during the bike chase (Pedantic, yes, but Raiders had quality and love bestowed upon it; The Last Crusade feels like a factory produced product.)

3. All that crappy back-projection (In Raiders, Lucas and Spielberg took the trouble to put Ford in a REAL plane; no fuzzy lines.)

4. the tank chase which is pale imitation of the truck chase in Raiders (Talk about pissing on your own boots.)

5. the supernatural element that worked so well in Raiders (and Temple of Doom) but seems tacked on and implausible (where the pyrotechnics at the end of Raiders don't); The ageing Julian Glover doesn't work half as well as the melting Paul Lacey.

6. Julian Glover

7. Ford's Scottish accent

8. the script which has been traced and paced from Raiders, but without any of the wit, charm or surprises

In its own right, The Last Crusade would be fun. But compared with the other two it's pretty damn limp. I've seen it a few times in the hope that I might change my opinion - I haven't.


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Post #: 57
RE: Indy IV Opening... as I imagine it - 25/8/2006 2:04:29 AM   
Violet Indy

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: Gold Coast, Australia
And Karen Allen hasn't expressed interest in being Marion again? Maybe Indy falls for Marion in the end, realising that Willie is nothing but a banshee.

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Post #: 58
RE: - 25/8/2006 2:07:14 AM   
Violet Indy

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 23/8/2006
From: Gold Coast, Australia
quote:

ORIGINAL: mlavagna

I heard a rumour that the movie's gonna revolve around the lost city of Atlantis, or some place similar. Indiana also has a son who he only just discovers exists during the course of the movie.


This rumour was debunked ages ago. There already is a video game called "Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis. I have the comics of that at home. As for the son, you're actually referring to a fan written script known as the "Sons of Darkness" in which Marion is dead, for only Indy to find that she brought up a secret love child of whom Indy is the father.

(in reply to mlavagna)
Post #: 59
RE: Let It Go Shhhon - 25/8/2006 5:28:50 AM   
Crakajak06

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 25/8/2006
Reasons for you being wrong:

1. The "five minute" adventure works well for the movie, I mean do you want a thirty minute intro that takes you through years of Indy aquiring his whip hat and scar before the plot of the movie really begins? Sure it's a tad bit "convinient" but its fun, too, which is what Indiana Jones is all about.

2. Small filp-flubs like the hair thing are ABUNDANT in the Indy films, yes even the "love-bestowed" Raiders film. Spielberg chose to shoot all three movies in the same quick and dirty fashion to mimic the serials of the 30's on which the movies are based. And Id like to hear what the filmmakers have to say about how they did not bestow love on the third film.

3.The closest you got to a good point, but I still think it adds to the dirty feel of the movies. I do agree that the less sfx they use with Indy, the better.

4. The tank chase was an imitation of the truck chase how again? Bc they used a horse and moving vehicle? I hardly think that consitutes an accusation of copy-paste. It was fresh with its own varied set of stunts and fun play with the treads of the tank. Copy...thats a good one.

5. Ok, this was my favorite. You are saying that an ark opening and electrecuting/melting/exploding all those Nazis was somehow more "plausible" than the cup of Christ draining the life from one man and healing a gun-shot wound? Besides I dont think that plausibility even plays into that part of the story. And wait...tacked on, you say? It works intregally with the stern reiligious beliefs of Indy Sr. and the whole father son relationship at the heart of the movie. Which movie were you watching again?

6. I thought Julian Glover was just fine in the movie, but then again thats an opinion thing and I like calm British vilians.

7. Woa, what? I loved the accent bit. Seeing Indy imitate a Scottish man was hilariously out of the norm for him. And if you mean that it was a bad accent, then you missed the point: the butler knows its a bad accent and says just that, when this new theater approach to infiltration does not work, Indy punches the butler and goes back to his normal sneaking around. Perfect.

8. If you don't think the relationship of Indy and Sean Connery was surprising, charming, or ever witty, then I do not even know why im bothering with you.

In its own right, the Last Crusade WAS fun, and when compared to the other two it fits right in. I've seen it a few times in hopes I'd see it again.-I have. 

(in reply to badsanta)
Post #: 60
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