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RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:40:01 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Is there a worse commentator out there than Clive Tyldesley? I find it hard to believe there is.


You have clearly (and quite understandably) wiped all memory of Peter Drury from your mind. He makes me want to shoot myself in the ears.


I've been contemplating that myself during this match.

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Post #: 5701
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:40:14 PM   
Skiba


Posts: 4402
Joined: 24/11/2005
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Is there a worse commentator out there than Clive Tyldesley? I find it hard to believe there is.


You have clearly (and quite understandably) wiped all memory of Peter Drury from your mind. He makes me want to shoot myself in the ears.

Yep, it's Drury.

WAZZA!!!!!

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Post #: 5702
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:40:14 PM   
Scott_

 

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That was ace.

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Post #: 5703
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:42:51 PM   
superdan


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That was really weird. I was watching the game on ITV's website, just happened to look down the screen at 77:30mins and saw that they had it at 1-2, even though the game I was watching was 1-1. Sure enough, a minute later I see Rooney score a pearler. Thanks for the spoiler ITV, you fuckers.

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Post #: 5704
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:43:48 PM   
Scott_

 

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From: Leeds
That was even better.

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Post #: 5705
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:43:51 PM   
Skiba


Posts: 4402
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From: London
Oh...

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Post #: 5706
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:44:36 PM   
Skiba


Posts: 4402
Joined: 24/11/2005
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

That was really weird. I was watching the game on ITV's website, just happened to look down the screen at 77:30mins and saw that they had it at 1-2, even though the game I was watching was 1-1. Sure enough, a minute later I see Rooney score a pearler. Thanks for the spoiler ITV, you fuckers.

Get a TV you loser!

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Post #: 5707
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:45:17 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10881
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1-2

Clive Tyldesley: A reminder that no European team has defeated Brazil on home soil since England in 1984.


2-2

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Post #: 5708
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:49:55 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8223
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

That was really weird. I was watching the game on ITV's website, just happened to look down the screen at 77:30mins and saw that they had it at 1-2, even though the game I was watching was 1-1. Sure enough, a minute later I see Rooney score a pearler. Thanks for the spoiler ITV, you fuckers.

Get a TV you loser!


Not sure work would appreciate that too much

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Post #: 5709
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:52:02 PM   
Skiba


Posts: 4402
Joined: 24/11/2005
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

That was really weird. I was watching the game on ITV's website, just happened to look down the screen at 77:30mins and saw that they had it at 1-2, even though the game I was watching was 1-1. Sure enough, a minute later I see Rooney score a pearler. Thanks for the spoiler ITV, you fuckers.

Get a TV you loser!


Not sure work would appreciate that too much


On a Sunday? Sorry, I had no idea you were of the working class

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Post #: 5710
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 9:56:47 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8223
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skiba


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

That was really weird. I was watching the game on ITV's website, just happened to look down the screen at 77:30mins and saw that they had it at 1-2, even though the game I was watching was 1-1. Sure enough, a minute later I see Rooney score a pearler. Thanks for the spoiler ITV, you fuckers.

Get a TV you loser!


Not sure work would appreciate that too much


On a Sunday? Sorry, I had no idea you were of the working class


I only do it to meet new people. I have to bring my own food though, they don't do condor-egg omlettes in the kitchen and the so-called brandy they sell here is no Henry IV Grande cognac let me tell thee.

Decent second half as it turned out there, some great goals from both sides too which is unusual when England are playing.

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Post #: 5711
RE: The England Football Thread - 2/6/2013 10:00:07 PM   
Skiba


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Joined: 24/11/2005
From: London
I had the quite spectacular amount of £6 on a draw so I'm £4 up on the night!

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Post #: 5712
RE: The England Football Thread - 3/6/2013 12:51:33 PM   
ElephantBoy

 

Posts: 8409
Joined: 13/4/2006
Didn't see that second half coming.

Guess England did well to hang in there, but its really thanks to Joe Hart, Brazil being wastful and rare brilliance from us that we escaped with anything. "Lets all be positive!"

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Post #: 5713
RE: The England Football Thread - 3/6/2013 10:11:55 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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A couple of years ago I read Jonathan Wilson's book on football tactics, "Inverting the Pyramid".

One of the things it starts off covering is that the Scots invented passing, the English thinking that the pure way to play the sport was to take the ball forward, dribbling at the opposition.

Ironically, in the 150th anniversary of the FA, it seems that this remains our best tactic. England have 4 players who can run at the opposition and cause problems. Walcott, Ox, Rooney, Lampard. None of those has shown a consistent passing game in the last two games. So, it seems to remain that our best hope of breaking down an opposition is for one of these to run at the other team and hope something presents itself, a shot on goal or an opportunity for a cross / layoff. Unfortunately for England these chances will be less if a solid opposition is not suddenly put into chaos by the odd break.

The problem is 'how to get the ball to them'. None of the 3 are blessed with height, so its more likely to see Hart splaying the ball out of play than reaching them from a goal kick. Carrick produces great passing statistics for Utd, but the majority of his game for them is to keep control of the ball. And this isn't what England are looking for, as inevitably a sequence of passing can't get past the 3rd or 4th link in the chain.

Wilshere is an injury enigma, but as has been noted before he did run the show against Brazil in the game earlier this season. Without him, I can only see Stevie G as an option. He plays Hollywood passes and we know the odds of these coming off, but in a team that can't hold the ball I think that is our only chance. Out from the keeper / defense to Carrick, lay off to Gerrard who is either encouraged to run at the opposition himself, or look for the options ahead of himself. Its a tactic that will result still in the majority of possession being with the opposition, but this seems inevitable that when England meet a better team that team will have up to 2/3 of the possession and the best we can do is look to manufacture 3 or 4 good chances.

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Post #: 5714
RE: The England Football Thread - 3/6/2013 10:40:20 PM   
galvatron


Posts: 1257
Joined: 1/10/2005
England don't have the players with the technical ability to play a possession game against the top opposition. I think picking a direct attacking team is the correct way to go against the big teams. A central midfield of Jones, Lampard and Carrick doesn't offer the direct attacking threat that we need. Wilshire is an excellent dribbler so a midfield five of: Ox, Walcott, Wilshire, Milner, (another more defensive player) plus Rooney upfront could be very dangerous. I don't rate Milner that highly but he's a disciplined player and can play many roles and he works well as a team man.

Perhaps in the future we might develop some players to play a controlling game but not at the moment and I largely agreed with Roy's tactics against Brazil. In the first half Brazil played some excellent football and Hart had a good game. Once the Ox came on we had a greater running threat and looked more dangerous but also Oscar came off and he was mint when he was on!

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Post #: 5715
RE: The England Football Thread - 3/6/2013 11:15:01 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: galvatron

England don't have the players with the technical ability to play a possession game against the top opposition. I think picking a direct attacking team is the correct way to go against the big teams.

i guess that if Roy can say that Dortmund play a 4-4-2 like England did against Ireland. Then we can say the fast break game is exactly what Bayern do. Problems with this approach for England:
- ceding possession to the opposition means they will create opportunities
- teams will press high against England making it difficult go get the ball to our direct attackers and forcing errors
- in 30+ degrees of heat if we make Brazil next year, running around after the ball is a quick way to get tired and make the last 10 minutes very difficult
- we need a very high conversion rate of opportunities created

Still, if you ask me, Brazil haven't much more of a chance of winning the WC.



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Post #: 5716
RE: The England Football Thread - 3/6/2013 11:42:39 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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To be fair many parts of Brazil are rarely 30 degrees in June, a lot if places including the big cities like Rio average more around 24 degree highs, which isn't really that bad, particularly if we have evening/early morning games.

Qatar at the next WC though? We're probably best just requesting to not take part at all

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Post #: 5717
RE: The England Football Thread - 3/6/2013 11:49:09 PM   
superdan


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Joined: 31/7/2008
One of the things I always felt about the England teams of the mid-90's to early 00's was that, despite being generally inferior technically, they were very attack-minded. They'd surge forwards in attack and hope that Seaman/Adams/Campbell/Ince/Batty/Whoever would be there to cover any counter-attack. It didn't always work of course, but England were far more entertaining to watch. Then again, we had a team of reliable international performers with some genuinely enviable talent. Now, for what seems like the longest time, England have become a team that invites pressure rather than applies it, playing in fear of a loss rather than chancing for the win. Which would be fine, except we're shit at defending these days too.

Now I'm feeling sad.

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Post #: 5718
RE: The England Football Thread - 4/6/2013 1:27:10 PM   
ElephantBoy

 

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Joined: 13/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

One of the things I always felt about the England teams of the mid-90's to early 00's was that, despite being generally inferior technically, they were very attack-minded. They'd surge forwards in attack and hope that Seaman/Adams/Campbell/Ince/Batty/Whoever would be there to cover any counter-attack. It didn't always work of course, but England were far more entertaining to watch. Then again, we had a team of reliable international performers with some genuinely enviable talent. Now, for what seems like the longest time, England have become a team that invites pressure rather than applies it, playing in fear of a loss rather than chancing for the win. Which would be fine, except we're shit at defending these days too.

Now I'm feeling sad.

Know what you mean but given the current manager and the fact is our weakest squad in quite a few years I think that is the best way for us to play, at least against the better teams.

I don't think Brazil are that good at the moment, being on home soil will give them a chance, but then that does add its own pressure too. At the moment it is looking a very wide open WC next year.

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Post #: 5719
RE: The England Football Thread - 8/6/2013 6:56:59 PM   
superdan


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Joined: 31/7/2008
There can be little doubt Pearce's time as U-21 manager is over now.

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Post #: 5720
RE: The England Football Thread - 8/6/2013 8:42:17 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17194
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From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

There can be little doubt Pearce's time as U-21 manager is over now.


Admittedly without having watched either game, is a new managerial appointment going to make that much difference? It's an U21 tournament people, let's get it in check shall we? The way I have seen a lot of fans react to this is highly disappointing, criticizing these very young players, many of whom are still a bundle of raw talent and potential (tonight should wake a few Man United fans up to exactly where Zaha is, and I'm talking those United fans who had never actually watched him play before they paid £15 million for him in January and decided that was enough to make him a global superstar of football) and are off the back of a long, hard season where many of their squads are not afforded the luxury of rotation policies, how many of that team tonight played Premier League football for one of the more sizeable teams last season and how many played in a 46-game League like the Championship plus all the cup fixtures and have been a key and consistent figure most of the season in a variety of different ambitions and pushes?

I'm sure I'll sound like a broken record but until we sort out a National Academy where we can nurture this young talent, figure out a way to get more of it through the varies club academies and systems because not a lot is at the moment and a significant portion that does starts to lose it's way, I'll take Jonjo Shelvey as a leading example of that.

I'm not defending Pearce, if he has to go, he has to go, it's just this isn't exactly a job that I think defines it's team as much as some may think. It's also a tough task to get an appointment, wasn't it once on a rotation basis between lower-league managers or is that me thinking of something else?

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Post #: 5721
RE: The England Football Thread - 8/6/2013 9:11:16 PM   
superdan


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I think it's more the fact that he is employed to make the U21's successful, and in tournaments they haven't been really. Imperious in qualifying, but when it comes to the crunch they've habitually faltered (so in that sense he's preparing them quite well for life in the senior team). The whole thing hasn't been helped by players that could have made a difference not being available because they were injured/on a jolly in Brazil/busy laying bets, and that's something that has to be sorted out if the FA are serious about their mission to make youth development a #1 priority. Plus he's been in charge for 6 years, and maybe it is time for a change anyway.

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Post #: 5722
RE: The England Football Thread - 8/6/2013 9:13:53 PM   
Goodfella


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So no different to the senior England manager for the past two decades then? I agree, the FA do need to make youth development the number one priority, sacking the U21 coach is a tiny percentage of that and won't make much of a difference on the grand scale of things and they damn well know it but they'll do it to get the public perception on their side and then continue to meander along as they have been doing.

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Post #: 5723
RE: The England Football Thread - 8/6/2013 9:45:36 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8223
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

So no different to the senior England manager for the past two decades then? I agree, the FA do need to make youth development the number one priority, sacking the U21 coach is a tiny percentage of that and won't make much of a difference on the grand scale of things and they damn well know it but they'll do it to get the public perception on their side and then continue to meander along as they have been doing.


I suppose it depends on whether you think Pearce is as good as it gets in helping to develop Englands young up-and-coming international players. Given that the bulk of this team won the U17s Championship under another manager just a few years ago (beating Spain in the Final no less), it could be argued that there is scope for improvement.

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Post #: 5724
RE: The England Football Thread - 8/6/2013 10:27:44 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17194
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodfella

So no different to the senior England manager for the past two decades then? I agree, the FA do need to make youth development the number one priority, sacking the U21 coach is a tiny percentage of that and won't make much of a difference on the grand scale of things and they damn well know it but they'll do it to get the public perception on their side and then continue to meander along as they have been doing.


I suppose it depends on whether you think Pearce is as good as it gets in helping to develop Englands young up-and-coming international players. Given that the bulk of this team won the U17s Championship under another manager just a few years ago (beating Spain in the Final no less), it could be argued that there is scope for improvement.



I don't know whether he is or he isn't to be honest, with the workload and the demands and pressures of being a manager in domestic football today would one be willing to potentially sacrifice part of their little free time from their club careers to run the set-up as they have done in the past or would an unemployed manager be appointed and if so, who? Who is the best available? Is best the right way to describe this category?

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Post #: 5725
RE: The England Football Thread - 10/6/2013 12:47:19 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10282
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From: the waters of Casablanca
I'm not sure we've learned anything new here, have we? Most of us already knew that:
- Though we may have loved Pearce as a player, he's never shown much of anything as a manager
- Taking the best players out of the U21 to play in the senior squad weakens the U21 squad
- Qualification and tournament progress are two entirely different entities
- Even if our better players had been there, there seems to be a very shallow pool of talent coming through
- If a team we beat twice in qualification can hammer us then thank the lord we didn't come up against Germany or Holland

What is sad is that I'm not sure the FA care. I read some article where one of their suits was going on about how we could win a major tournament in 15 years because we now (finally) have a centre of excellence. Well, I guess its possible to win something, but I'd still say unlikely as the FA never seems really serious about the future. It was said that Ox, Rodwell, Jones et al got valuable experience of being in Brazil, but I find it hard to imagine that the few minutes some of them had on the pitch can have been less beneficial than playing in an actual tournament. And if memory serves none of them were overplayed in the last season, so there should still be at least 3 or 4 games in their tanks. But the FA seems to have a stance that when you make the senior team you are above the U21 and its almost as though a return there would be humiliating. It may be the case that talent is so little in England that we need these youngsters available to the senior team, but I can't help thinking that patience can be a virtue.

At the other end there is a lot of moaning that we don't have enough U21s playing football in the PL because its easier to bring in overseas talent. Well I know footballers aren't known for brimming with brains, but I think these lads have to start to think that playing overseas could be good for them and a year or two in Holland or Germany playing football might be better than sitting on a bench at Chelsea, or even being in the hurly-burly of the Championship.

Pearce isn't up to it, but as has been said above, whoever is his replacement is unlikely to see wholesale improvements in performance.

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Post #: 5726
RE: The England Football Thread - 10/6/2013 3:46:27 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


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Appointing Hoddle would be a step in the right direction.

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Post #: 5727
RE: The England Football Thread - 10/6/2013 6:32:38 PM   
superdan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Appointing Hoddle would be a step in the right direction.


What makes you say that? Wolves fans still shudder at the memory of his time in charge, and he hardly covered himself in glory at Spurs either. Plus he's a fruitcake.

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Post #: 5728
RE: The England Football Thread - 11/6/2013 11:10:05 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10282
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Appointing Hoddle would be a step in the right direction.


What makes you say that? Wolves fans still shudder at the memory of his time in charge, and he hardly covered himself in glory at Spurs either. Plus he's a fruitcake.



I can see where the idea comes from of a coach / manager who would instill a passing game in the squad, but I can't see the FA going for Hoddle, he's known to not have much time for players he doesn't think have talent (which I don't think is good at that level) and as dan says, he's nutty as a fruitcake.

There has to be someone else along these lines. A kind of Zola that the FA could afford and would want the job.

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Post #: 5729
RE: The England Football Thread - 11/6/2013 12:00:19 PM   
Scott_

 

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Gary Neville.

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Post #: 5730
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