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RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 9:55:24 AM   
jonson


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Yeah, jump before you're pushed, spinelsss twat.

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Post #: 5401
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 10:09:49 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7845
Joined: 3/10/2005
Whatever you say about him off the field, he's been the best England centre back since Tony Adams... it's good news for Chelsea though.

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Post #: 5402
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 10:20:02 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23696
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From: 41N 93W
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

Whatever you say about him off the field, he's been the best England centre back since Tony Adams... it's good news for Chelsea though.


He doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Tony Adams after his antics at the 2010 World Cup (not to mention his performances). try Sol Campbell instead.

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Post #: 5403
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 10:45:48 AM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Terry is one of the best English defenders of all time - great player. As a person not as great but people take the personal hatreds out of it I've seen so many great performances over the years, a really brave defender who put his body on the line continously.

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Post #: 5404
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 11:07:38 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23696
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
You're joking right?

Bobby Moore
Tony Adams
Terry Butcher
Billy Wright
Jack Charlton
Sol Campbell
Rio Ferdinand
Ledley King
Des Walker
Viv Anderson

if we're talking just centre backs. If you're saying best English defenders of all time - Ashley Cole, Kenny Sansom, Stuart Pearce...

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Post #: 5405
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 11:49:02 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8251
Joined: 31/7/2008
Exactly. Fuck, I'd have had Woodgate when he was fit over Terry.

Edit: Besides which, why does he feel his position has become untenable? Because the hearing that we've all known for months was coming has finally started? Did he believe they were going to call it off or something?

< Message edited by superdan -- 24/9/2012 11:51:18 AM >

(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 5406
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 12:14:01 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
Maybe he just got lucky playing in a Chelsea team that won so much and winning 78 England caps . Terry comfortably fits in with that bunch especially if you've got Sol Campbell in there!

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Post #: 5407
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 12:36:06 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8251
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Maybe he just got lucky playing in a Chelsea team that won so much and winning 78 England caps . Terry comfortably fits in with that bunch especially if you've got Sol Campbell in there!


He kind of did get lucky. Jose Mourinho built a team specifically to limit the number of opportunities for the opposition to score to a minimum. That's why players like Geremi and Boulahrouz also have a stack of medals on the back of it. As soon as Mourinho left, Terry's abilities seemed to mysteriously fade and he was found increasingly wanting. Interestingly, his behaviour after Mourinho left seemed to get worse. Leading player revolts both for club and country, cash in brown paper bags, philandering and racist insults. Lying at half time after getting sent off, gatecrashing the celebrations at the final... as I said, good riddance. Pick Cahill. Pick Jagielka. Pick anyone, I don't care. I'm just glad that poisonous twunt is not going to be wearing an England shirt anymore.

Unless England win in 2014, when I expect he'll turn up in full England kit to hold up the trophy

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Post #: 5408
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 12:40:36 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14555
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Maybe he just got lucky winning 78 England caps


Irrelevant.

Heskey's got 62.

Glenn Hoddle's got 44.

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Post #: 5409
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 12:41:47 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8251
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

Maybe he just got lucky winning 78 England caps


Irrelevant.

Heskey's got 62.

Glenn Hoddle's got 44.


Matt Le Tissier...

(in reply to matty_b)
Post #: 5410
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 1:11:11 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8057
Joined: 30/9/2005
missed opportunity to dump him prior to the world cup.

Shame we've got injuries in that area, but if it means we have to put up with Lescott a bit longer I wouldn't be happy but I'd take it.

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Post #: 5411
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 1:46:11 PM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 460
Joined: 25/1/2010
Good riddance to the odious little toad. I can't imagine anyone other than Chelsea fans, who like go shout to anyone that will listen that he's a Ledge, will be too bothered either. For too long he's relied on his bravery and willingness to get hurt for the cause to mask his other deficiencies. Tata.

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Post #: 5412
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 1:59:14 PM   
Harry Lime


Posts: 5147
Joined: 30/9/2005
Agreed. He was willing to put himself on the line for the cause (laudable) but he was, for the most part, a one-paced oaf who relied on better players to sweep up around him (Carvalho, Ferdinand, etc) whilst at the same time playing up to a no-nonsense, "hardman" image that a deranged but sizeable core of the English following (and tabloid media) seem to think equates to leadership.

To put him up there with the likes of Bobby Moore, Tony Adams or even Terry Butcher is laughable. He was a poor man's Jack Charlton at very best.

To be honest, I don't give a damn what he is like as a person, either way.

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Post #: 5413
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 8:14:23 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


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Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Lime

Agreed. He was willing to put himself on the line for the cause (laudable) but he was, for the most part, a one-paced oaf who relied on better players to sweep up around him (Carvalho, Ferdinand, etc) whilst at the same time playing up to a no-nonsense, "hardman" image that a deranged but sizeable core of the English following (and tabloid media) seem to think equates to leadership.

I'd like to know of a few examples where he has galvanised the entire squad behind him, ensuring everyone is together towards a single aim.
Not just playing to those who are happy to follow blindly but showing true leadership, rather than dictatorship.
A true leader would have worked alongside Gerrard not deliberately undermined him, sending out comments to the press about unrest etc. Moaning about how his is being victimised, while making dodgy deals on the back of his captaincy.

The announcement yesterday encapsulated the man as he claimed the FA made his position untenable, another find example of true inspirational leadership.
What ever the FA may have done it is all as a direct result of his poorly chosen actions, of which there are numerous the race incident being merely the most recent, his own actions have led to where he is now, and yet he has the nerve to attempt to play the victim card.

The young England players are in a better position without his influence.

< Message edited by Flatulent_Bob -- 24/9/2012 8:18:16 PM >


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Post #: 5414
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 8:55:00 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Lime

a one-paced oaf who relied on better players to sweep up around him



Really? So why didn't the likes of Mourinho, then Hiddink, then Ancelotti see through him and get rid of? That's not of course including various England managers down the years.


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Post #: 5415
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 8:56:56 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14555
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
quote:

who relied on better players to sweep up around him (Carvalho, Ferdinand, etc)


Because they made him, and his admitted ability to throw himself in front of anything, look good and vital to the cause.

Once those better players were gone, his limits were exposed.


< Message edited by matty_b -- 24/9/2012 8:58:02 PM >


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Post #: 5416
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 9:07:29 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

quote:

who relied on better players to sweep up around him (Carvalho, Ferdinand, etc)


Because they made him, and his admitted ability to throw himself in front of anything, look good and vital to the cause.

Once those better players were gone, his limits were exposed.



He looked pretty good in CL last year till he got sent off - he was excellent against Barcelona in the first leg of the semi for example.

I don't understand why a succession of world class managers wouldn't have dumped him if he was just made to look good by others around him - it should be fairly obvious to the likes of the people I mentioned.

Bring in someone proper and your defence gets even better, it's not as if they would have been lacking funds. I think you lot are being harsh because he's a bit of a tosser

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Post #: 5417
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 9:10:14 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14555
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
You know who else is a tosser? Ashley Cole. And he's probably been the best left back in the world for the last five years or so. My personal opinion of Terry has no bearing on my assessment on him as a player.

Another reason numerous managers didn't dump him is because they were scared to, quite frankly - the Chelsea ones because of the sway he held in the dressing room and the England ones because of the media reaction.


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Post #: 5418
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 9:24:50 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun
If he was a shit defender he'd get more grief from the press for England playing him because his mistakes would be leading to goals - and I seriously doubt the likes of Mourinho, Ancellotti and Hiddink kept him in because they were scared of his influence. These are big time managers not AVB

< Message edited by Fluke Skywalker -- 24/9/2012 9:25:12 PM >

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Post #: 5419
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 9:34:48 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8251
Joined: 31/7/2008
I don't think anyone's claiming he's a shit defender. It's more that he isn't and never was one of the best English defenders of all time. He wasn't even close to being the best English defender of his generation. There's no doubt in my mind that injuries to other, more gifted players helped him enormously towards those 78 caps.

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Post #: 5420
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 9:36:16 PM   
Rinc


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From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt
I'd always have had Ferdinand above him. And if Woodgate and King had been fit I'd have always selected them above him too.

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Post #: 5421
RE: Terry retires from England - 24/9/2012 9:59:13 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
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From: the dark side of the sun
And for those of you complaining about his lack of pace :


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Post #: 5422
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 9:22:36 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7845
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

I don't think anyone's claiming he's a shit defender


Really... well the tone of this thread has fooled me.

He's a class defender, and he has been (since Adams) one of the best for England IMO.

As I said, I am pleased from a Chelsea perspective.

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Post #: 5423
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 9:46:24 AM   
jonson


Posts: 9066
Joined: 30/9/2005
I'd have to agree. The bloke's a cunt but no way is he a shit defender, or even an average one. One thing you could always rely on is his commitment, and this is not a chest-beating England fan talking.
He's won trophies, captained his club and country (from a fairly young age) and has been consistently picked by a number of good managers for England and Chelsea.
But he's a cunt

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Post #: 5424
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 10:41:08 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8251
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

I don't think anyone's claiming he's a shit defender


Really... well the tone of this thread has fooled me.

He's a class defender, and he has been (since Adams) one of the best for England IMO.

As I said, I am pleased from a Chelsea perspective.


There's a difference between disagreeing about him being one of the best ever and claiming he's shit. I've never thought nor said he was shit, I just think that his reputation seems disproportionate to what I see as a player who if not for serious and chronic injuries to Ferdinand, King and Woodgate would probably not represented England nearly as much. And that's without bringing his off-field shenanigans into it (since Ferdinand is hardly an angel himself). And sure he's been successful at club level, but so has Wes Brown

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Post #: 5425
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 10:49:22 AM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 460
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I can all but guarantee if he is found to be not guilty by the panel then his untenable position will suddenly become...tenable. Back available for England selection faster than you can make a sarcastic repitition.

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Post #: 5426
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 12:52:50 PM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7845
Joined: 3/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

I can all but guarantee if he is found to be not guilty by the panel then his untenable position will suddenly become...tenable. Back available for England selection faster than you can make a sarcastic repitition.


There is no way he will be found not-guilty, the FA would not have brought the charge against him unless they already knew the outcome.

I think the FA needs a complete reorganisation of how it works... these things drag on and on, there doesn't seem to be much consistency in anything they do, and they seems at odds with one another a lot of the time. I mean the current England Manager - employed by the FA, has been pretty vocal in his support of Terry, it's a strange organisation.

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Post #: 5427
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 1:01:31 PM   
Flatulent_Bob


Posts: 8057
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

I can all but guarantee if he is found to be not guilty by the panel then his untenable position will suddenly become...tenable. Back available for England selection faster than you can make a sarcastic repitition.


There is no way he will be found not-guilty, the FA would not have brought the charge against him unless they already knew the outcome.

I think the FA needs a complete reorganisation of how it works... these things drag on and on, there doesn't seem to be much consistency in anything they do, and they seems at odds with one another a lot of the time. I mean the current England Manager - employed by the FA, has been pretty vocal in his support of Terry, it's a strange organisation.


They couldn't do anything until after the court case though could they?

Roy also ought to keep quiet about defending Terry too, its clear he used the offensive word which is why the FA are going to quite rightly nail him.


_____________________________

I'm your huckleberry...

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.


Oh my God! They banned Kenny!


(in reply to Sinatra)
Post #: 5428
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 1:38:54 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8251
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flatulent_Bob

Roy also ought to keep quiet about defending Terry too, its clear he used the offensive word which is why the FA are going to quite rightly nail him.



Yeah, I agree. It's surprised me that Rio is apparently keen to return for England after the support Roy has given Terry as well. I suspect it won't make any difference though, unless Roy finds himself in a position where he literally has no choice but to call him up (like, if every other English CB in the PL and Championship is injured ).


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Post #: 5429
RE: Terry retires from England - 25/9/2012 2:43:39 PM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7845
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

They couldn't do anything until after the court case though could they?


That's right, but that was months ago now... they just drag everything out usually.

(in reply to Flatulent_Bob)
Post #: 5430
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