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RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 2:53:23 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005
I think Rose and family started that rather than the Ponds - but they were, I think, one of the problems with the last series.

I think Sledge's point about the difficulty of putting one Dr in another's story is pretty interesting though.

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Post #: 17191
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 3:11:08 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
That's not the same as what I'm saying, though. My point is that I don't think Smith has been given a story of the quality, or one that will stretch him as an actor, as Human Nature/Family of Blood or Midnight - unless anyone disagrees that he has, and I'd be interested in hearing which ones.

And I should say that I'm a huge fan of Smith, and probably rate him higher than Tennant.

I think the closest he's been given in terms of quality would be The Doctor's Wife or The Girl Who Waited, but even those don't give him the range of stuff that Tennant was given.

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Post #: 17192
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 3:20:03 PM   
elab49


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I'd have to think. There have been some moments I think - like the dicussion in Vampires of Venice with McCrory.

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ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 17193
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 3:29:59 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
But is that down to Smith's quality as an actor, or the material itself? I'd argue the former.

And that's my overall point, I don't think he's been given as great material as Tennant was which is a shame.

Although maybe the dual role in The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People comes close.

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Post #: 17194
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 4:57:24 PM   
musht


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From: Oireland
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I agree with what Matty is saying about Smith not getting good enough material.. I believe this feeds from Moffat's obsession with the companions, as the Ponds got all the emotional stuff in my opinion whereas the Doctor was just there to guide them through it a bit like a Gandalf figure. I don't think this was as much a problem with Rose, I haven't watched the Rose episode in ages and it was only the once but I don't remember her having such an integral connection to the over arcing story of the series. The fact that there were two Ponds competing with The Doctor also didn't help. Hopefully they won't introduce Oswyn's boyfriend or someone like that.

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Post #: 17195
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 5:46:20 PM   
Captain Black


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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

I'm not suggesting that Smith is bored with the show, but I do think there's a natural shelflife for actors in the role before they take it as far as they can, and Smith is approaching his.



Do you mean specifically for this role or as a general rule for TV? I guess it's probably a cultural (or money) thing: actors seem a lot happier to stay on American shows (even if they're British actors ) for longer periods.

I liked the episode well enough whilst watching it, but after reading a few other comments I guess overall I found it to be fairly disposable.

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

It also doesn't help that he hasn't been given a truly great script yet to challenge him. Consider that Tennant had the Human Nature/Family of Blood double episode and Midnight to really attack - has Smith been given anything of a similar ilk? I would say not, which isn't helped by a showrunner seemingly more interested in a supporting character than the lead.



I hadn't thought of it that way ("more interested in the supporting character") but I do agree: indeed, the Ponds exit always had a distinct whiff of Moffatt's attention already moving on to something else, to me.

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Post #: 17196
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 5:49:29 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
To be honest, rather than the Ponds, I did mean River bleedin' Song.

quote:

Do you mean specifically for this role or as a general rule for TV?


I specifically meant the role of the Doctor. You could be right, maybe it is a cultural thing. Or maybe other shows can have their characters grow and develop a lot more, which you can't really do here.

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Post #: 17197
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 6:45:58 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3194
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From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

I'm not suggesting that Smith is bored with the show, but I do think there's a natural shelflife for actors in the role before they take it as far as they can, and Smith is approaching his.



I've always shared this opinion - it amazes me that fans still hope that someone will stick around as long as Tom Baker did.

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Post #: 17198
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 7:57:06 PM   
MovieAddict247


Posts: 3751
Joined: 5/6/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

That's not the same as what I'm saying, though. My point is that I don't think Smith has been given a story of the quality, or one that will stretch him as an actor, as Human Nature/Family of Blood or Midnight - unless anyone disagrees that he has, and I'd be interested in hearing which ones.

And I should say that I'm a huge fan of Smith, and probably rate him higher than Tennant.

I think the closest he's been given in terms of quality would be The Doctor's Wife or The Girl Who Waited, but even those don't give him the range of stuff that Tennant was given.


I'm slightly inclined to agree with you, though I rate Smith more than Tennant (who, despite having some fantastic scripts, had so much dross to read I couldn't help but feel sorry for him). Smith's finest acting moments, for me, have been his non-dialogue bits - his expressions are so much more expressive (duh), and what he shows in them is far more complex than his scripted lines show. Does that make sense?

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Post #: 17199
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 8:03:05 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Oh, totally.

There's two (maybe three) moments that I can think of that are great examples of that.

The Wedding of River Song when he makes the phone call to discover the Brigadier has passed away. Now considering that Smith has never shared a scene with Courtney, yet still has to convey that the Doctor has lost his best friend, he absolutely nails it in his body language.

Then there's The Girl Who Waited - there's a scene right at the end where old Amy is hammering on the doors to be let in, and it cuts to Smith looking unbelievably haunted by the decision he's had to make. And at the end, when 'our' Amy has woken up, and the Doctor pokes his tongue out at her to make her laugh is both brilliant and chilling, considering what he's just done.

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Post #: 17200
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 8:52:42 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Um, so a certain readthrough happened today and this happened -


MASSIVELY SPOILERY IF YOU'VE SOMEHOW AVOIDED THE NEWS THREE PAGES BACK.


SERIOUSLY

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGykc7DCcAAosDh.jpg:large


I'll admit - it made me grin.

< Message edited by matty_b -- 1/4/2013 8:56:54 PM >


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Post #: 17201
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 9:10:46 PM   
MovieAddict247


Posts: 3751
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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

Um, so a certain readthrough happened today and this happened -


MASSIVELY SPOILERY IF YOU'VE SOMEHOW AVOIDED THE NEWS THREE PAGES BACK.


SERIOUSLY

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGykc7DCcAAosDh.jpg:large


I'll admit - it made me grin.


That excites me. Not in a Doctor Who fan way though.....

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Post #: 17202
RE: Doctor Who - 1/4/2013 9:32:11 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3194
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

Um, so a certain readthrough happened today and this happened -


MASSIVELY SPOILERY IF YOU'VE SOMEHOW AVOIDED THE NEWS THREE PAGES BACK.


SERIOUSLY

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BGykc7DCcAAosDh.jpg:large


I'll admit - it made me grin.


I can't look at that photo without thinking the guy on the left is singing "I'm gonna be the man who's coming hoooome... to you."

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Post #: 17203
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 7:00:37 AM   
Sledge Hammer


Posts: 1666
Joined: 14/11/2007
surpirsed it hasnt been mentioned about the book that JLC was reading was written by Amelia Williams (isnt that Pond?)

Didnt she say something that the 11th chapter always makes her cry - Matt being the 11th Chapter of the Dr Who story?

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Post #: 17204
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 9:13:14 AM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Yeah, I need to watch the episode again to pick up on these things.

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Post #: 17205
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 10:13:28 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sledge Hammer

surpirsed it hasnt been mentioned about the book that JLC was reading was written by Amelia Williams (isnt that Pond?)




quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Things I have been made aware of online #23 - the author of the book the boy is reading and the perception of the hub comes from


Inivisibility cloak off?

Last page - post was even responded to.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 2/4/2013 10:14:42 AM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 17206
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 4:21:39 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19038
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From: Punishment Park
In a move which will bug the hell out of Elab the BBC have printed a pic of the baddie that will appear in the 50th.

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Post #: 17207
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 4:28:30 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
SPOILERISH DISCUSSION FOLLOWS


Interesting, if not unexpected. If anything, I thought we would have seen them back before by now.



And Tennant must be doing a little dance of joy - didn't he say they were his favourite monster? Maybe that was instrumental in getting him back.

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Post #: 17208
RE: Doctor Who a bit of fun - 2/4/2013 6:19:43 PM   
The Waco Kid


Posts: 379
Joined: 30/9/2005
for anyone creative i thought you all might like this

http://www.deviantart.com/morelikethis/192910997?offset=72

not sure if this breaks Empire Guidelines if so please pull it down otherwise have some fun with a printer and some cardboard and glue.

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Post #: 17209
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 9:15:32 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54433
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

In a move which will bug the hell out of Elab the BBC have printed a pic of the baddie that will appear in the 50th.


It did. Seriously bloody hypocritical every time they open their mouths about spoilers. One damn surprise would be a feckin' miracle these days.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 17210
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 9:32:24 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19038
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
They were shooting it outdoors so suspect didn't have much of a choice.

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Post #: 17211
RE: Doctor Who - 2/4/2013 10:35:37 PM   
Vadersville


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Quite surprised to see comments on here saying they feel Smith is tired with the role. I definitely got that with Tennant during the specials, (his time in the role should have ended with Journey's End) but for me Smith's performance has been the one consistent thing during the last series and a half of increasingly disappointing Who.

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Post #: 17212
RE: Doctor Who - 3/4/2013 10:24:15 PM   
Joedini


Posts: 2878
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From: Kent
Finally finished Being Human, really gonna miss that show. But my plea for Damien Maloney to be the 12th Doctor starts now. I truly think he would be fantastic!

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Post #: 17213
RE: Doctor Who - 3/4/2013 10:58:39 PM   
musht


Posts: 1811
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joedini

Finally finished Being Human, really gonna miss that show. But my plea for Damien Maloney to be the 12th Doctor starts now. I truly think he would be fantastic!

Now you say it, that would actually be pretty great. Although I think I'd like someone older next, Bill Nighy would be great although he'd probably just have an 'older-Matt-Smith' take.

Question: If Maloney were to get it would he have to do an English accent? Is a non-English Doctor a black Bond issue or would people care? Am I wrong presume we didn't have a Scottish Doctor for a reason

Actually I haven't watched any old Who so I'm just assuming they were all English or used English accents

< Message edited by musht -- 3/4/2013 11:05:27 PM >


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Post #: 17214
RE: Doctor Who - 3/4/2013 11:17:01 PM   
Joedini


Posts: 2878
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From: Kent
Sylvester Mccoy kept his accent as Doctor 7 so I don't think it would be an issue. Not sure the reasoning behind Tennant changing his

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Post #: 17215
RE: Doctor Who - 3/4/2013 11:21:06 PM   
musht


Posts: 1811
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joedini

Sylvester Mccoy kept his accent as Doctor 7 so I don't think it would be an issue. Not sure the reasoning behind Tennant changing his

Well now I just feel silly

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Post #: 17216
RE: Doctor Who - 3/4/2013 11:41:28 PM   
Joedini


Posts: 2878
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: Kent

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joedini

Sylvester Mccoy kept his accent as Doctor 7 so I don't think it would be an issue. Not sure the reasoning behind Tennant changing his

Well now I just feel silly




No need to feel silly, just get some old school Who in your life

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Post #: 17217
RE: Doctor Who - 4/4/2013 9:36:35 AM   
Musefan

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 21/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

I think Smith is approaching the point that Tennant did with his years of special - the hectic schedule is starting to take its toll on him. When I last rewatched the RTD era, it was pretty clear that the natural ending point for Tennant was with Journey's End - everything in the specials afterwards was, as a friend bluntly put it, Tennant working his notice.


I dunno. I guess Tennant did seem a bit tired in the specials, but for me it worked because the idea for the specials was that the Doctor had been travelling alone for quite some time and was facing his death, etc...

I guess part of the problem for Smith is that his Doctor is a lot less clear a character than Tennant's was. With Tennant's Doctor you basically knew what he'd gone through (we got the impression that the bits of his life we saw in the series were pretty much the most important parts of his life), and that time for him passed in approximately the same fashion as it did for us (by that I mean he basically aged 4 years in the 4 series we had of him).

Smith's Doctor is all over the place. Firstly he's aged around 200 years in 3 years for us - something that I've found has really thrown me off the character since the end of Season 6 (it just seems really odd to me that we've seen so little of his recent life now - even the 10 or so years he spent with the Ponds is an incredibly small part of his life). But more than that I just feel that as lazy and shoddy as some of the writing was in RTD era, the one thing he always had a very strong grasp on was the characterization of The Doctor. Tennant's character always felt very consistent to me. With Smith I never really know what I'm gonna get. Eccentricity's one thing, but too often to me is just feels like a new quirk, a new piece of costume each week, without it quite adding up to a full character.

All personal opinion at the end of the day, but one of the things i always liked the most about RTD's vision of the show was that it kinda felt like a social-realist drama that happened to be feature a magic man in a blue box. The characters always felt grounded in reality. Moffat's vision often feels alot more like a comic book to me - more action, faster pacing and lots of cool moments, but lacking that believable human core that made us care about it all. But again, just personal opinion at the end of day.

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Post #: 17218
RE: Doctor Who - 4/4/2013 9:42:11 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19038
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
I dunno - I think the scene at the end of The Girl Who Waited where the Doctor goes from pretty much killing someone, to sticking out his tongue at Amy, summed up Moffat's idea of him, and is something I could not see Tennant pulling off. The child-like side of 11 is just a shield, and it was never better seen than in that moment.

< Message edited by Rgirvan44 -- 4/4/2013 10:31:26 AM >


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Post #: 17219
RE: Doctor Who - 4/4/2013 10:06:05 AM   
matty_b


Posts: 14446
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Yeah, one of Smith's best and defining moments.

And wasn't the reason for Tennant's non-Scottish accent supposed to be that post-regeneration, the Doctor 'copied' Rose's accent? I'm sure I read that somewhere.

I think it was dropped fairly early on, which is good because it was a stupid idea - it's not as if Colin Baker had an American accent, is it?

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Post #: 17220
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