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RE: Doctor Who - 25/12/2012 7:32:21 PM

jobloffski

Posts: 1846
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere

Guess I had too much humbug for this story. cant help feeling the 'what she thinks affects reality' thing is a little too close to Amy and her dreams rewriting time etc. Guessing she will either have picked up the not dying and reality alteration from her parents, the doctor and river (the latter having been conceived in the tardis, by her not dying father and reality altering dream having mother) although I do hope it is something less obvious. Also really really hope Moffat doesnt once again posit both Sherlock and Holmes on a similar point (as with how does the main character get out of apoarently dying), Looks like others didnt find the Holmes thing smugly self indulgent :-( Bah! Humbug!! Etc!!! ;-)

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 25/12/2012 7:38:35 PM >

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Post #: 16951

RE: Doctor Who - 25/12/2012 7:37:12 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11357
Joined: 30/9/2005

It was alright. I still prefer the one two years ago with Gambon I think, but this was pleasant.

And very funny

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Post #: 16952

RE: Doctor Who - 25/12/2012 7:43:51 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2976
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86

I really liked the Game of Thrones reference. What's the significance of 1967 to the London Underground. All I can find is http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_1967_Stock

It's a reference to two (missing) Troughton stories, that Moffat has effectively prequelised with The Snowmen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Abominable_Snowmen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Web_of_Fear

The Great Intelligence returns to fight the Doctor a (now) third time in the 5th series of the original run. In The Web of Fear its plan involves the London Underground. It's also the story that introduces Col. Alistair Lethbridge-Stewart of UNIT, or the Brigadier as he later becomes.

As a sidenote, in some of the early drafts of The Doctor's Wife, House was actually going to be the Great Intelligence, but Gaiman decided against it in the end because he thought he was being too fanboyish. I'm now wondering if really Moffat went to him "Well, as it happens Neil...".

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Post #: 16953

RE: Doctor Who - 25/12/2012 9:53:36 PM

Rgirvan44

Posts: 18934
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

New credits are interesting given the theme of "Doctor who?" being the first question - the whole galaxy tied to this question.

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Post #: 16954

RE: Doctor Who - 25/12/2012 10:56:09 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2928
Joined: 30/9/2005

It was alright, better than last years but still nowhere near as brilliant as the Gambon Christmas Special. Hate the new Tardis interior, looks too new, as in like wihout a scratch all shiny, yet the design is really dated, also feels way too small and claustraphobic, much preferred the previous design. Was there even any reason given why it was different?

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Post #: 16955

RE: Doctor Who - 25/12/2012 11:50:12 PM

Base

Posts: 4248
Joined: 30/3/2006
From: Surrey, UK

I loved it, easily one of the best specials that they have done!! Need more of Strax and the detectives!!!!!

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Post #: 16956

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 1:12:53 AM

matty_b

Posts: 13121
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

I really could have done without another 'strong emotion psychically saves the day' ending, but other than that it was great - and as a friend said on Facebook, it's a good thing no-one decided to have any last minute randy thoughts or God knows what the rain would have turned into...

And I'll add my voice to everyone else demanding that Strax returns fulltime.

Love the new credits, too - especially the return of putting the face into them.

< Message edited by matty_b -- 26/12/2012 1:13:34 AM >

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Post #: 16957

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 1:47:39 AM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2976
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

I see that the Royal Mail have announced a set of Doctor stamps for the 50th anniversary:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-20838728

Predictable, but pleasing nonetheless. The Hartnell one is pretty cool!

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Post #: 16958

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 9:35:45 AM

Base

Posts: 4248
Joined: 30/3/2006
From: Surrey, UK

LINK: Strax goes carol singing!

< Message edited by Base -- 26/12/2012 9:36:04 AM >

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Post #: 16959

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 9:48:57 AM

impqueen

Posts: 6920
Joined: 24/7/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Base

LINK: Strax goes carol singing!

That last one is brilliant.

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Post #: 16960

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 12:01:38 PM

Rebenectomy

Posts: 5550
Joined: 20/1/2008
From: 10-0-11-0-0 by 0-2

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Guessing she will either have picked up the not dying and reality alteration from her parents, the doctor and river (the latter having been conceived in the tardis, by her not dying father and reality altering dream having mother) although I do hope it is something less obvious.

That makes yesterday's full on face plant wrong beyond belief.

I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more than last years, but not as much as Gambon's. Grant was sadly underused, especially for someone with such close connection to Who; I'd have liked it more if they'd held off, using him as a big bad somewhere down the line instead. Dr Harry was also wasted.

Clara was okay, a tad annoying in parts, but I'm hoping Coleman will settle into the role a bit more. Strax was great yet again. Aggressively hospitable potatoes and inter species lesbianism - it's what the baby Jesus would have wanted for Santa Claus' birthday.

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Post #: 16961

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 12:02:56 PM

Rebenectomy

Posts: 5550
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Oh and loved seeing Matt's face in the credits. When I noticed at the start they were going to be different, I was hoping for the mush to appear, even giving about a wee cheer when it did.

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Post #: 16962

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 5:44:49 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2976
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: impqueen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Base

LINK: Strax goes carol singing!

That last one is brilliant.

Now I too can feel Shifty Bench's pain of posting something already on the last page and see it repeated.

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Post #: 16963

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 6:43:14 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2928
Joined: 30/9/2005

What did everyone think of the new Tardis interior. I'm still waiting for 10 to start opening it with a click of his fingers on a regular basis, and did anyone else notice how battered the outside looked?

< Message edited by Vadersville -- 26/12/2012 6:46:01 PM >

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Post #: 16964

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 7:09:31 PM

Sledge Hammer

Posts: 1644
Joined: 14/11/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

What did everyone think of the new Tardis interior. I'm still waiting for 10 to start opening it with a click of his fingers on a regular basis, and did anyone else notice how battered the outside looked?

Isnt Smith No 11?

I really like the new interior - looks great in HD! I also noticed the battered outside and wondered why but I guess we might find out. Could Clara be the Tardis in human form and each reincarnation damages the outside?

As for the episode, it was easily the best Xmas one - loved it

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Post #: 16965

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 7:32:35 PM

paul_ie86

Posts: 11224
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: Chelsea Hotel #2

I thought the battered outside was just a sign that The Doctor had been neglecting it.

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Post #: 16966

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 8:13:19 PM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2976
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

What did everyone think of the new Tardis interior.

Yeah, I liked it - it looked a lot better in the episode than the "90s CD-ROM game" style teaser photo they posted online the week before.

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Post #: 16967

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 11:11:40 PM

Jonty

Posts: 48
Joined: 7/10/2005

Am probably forgetting the details but the doctor said that a friend of his saved Strax. Who the hell was that??

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Post #: 16968

RE: Doctor Who - 26/12/2012 11:47:25 PM

Base

Posts: 4248
Joined: 30/3/2006
From: Surrey, UK

I just assumed it was Vastra, since he was working for her. Don't Silurian's have advanced medical technology?

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Post #: 16969

RE: Doctor Who - 28/12/2012 2:52:39 AM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2976
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonty

Am probably forgetting the details but the doctor said that a friend of his saved Strax. Who the hell was that??

It's something that's happened in between episodes - you didn't miss anything.

As Base said, it's probably Vastra's medical technology that revived Strax.

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Post #: 16970

RE: Doctor Who - 28/12/2012 3:57:25 PM

Vadersville

Posts: 2928
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sledge Hammer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

What did everyone think of the new Tardis interior. I'm still waiting for 10 to start opening it with a click of his fingers on a regular basis, and did anyone else notice how battered the outside looked?

Isnt Smith No 11?

I really like the new interior - looks great in HD! I also noticed the battered outside and wondered why but I guess we might find out. Could Clara be the Tardis in human form and each reincarnation damages the outside?

As for the episode, it was easily the best Xmas one - loved it

Yeah, he is 11, silly typo. I'm actually surprised the new interior has so many fans on here, I actually hated it. Although I did chuckle at the "It's smaller on the outside" line.

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Post #: 16971

RE: Doctor Who - 28/12/2012 7:03:56 PM

jcthefirst

Posts: 4112
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor

Wasn't Strax a right evil bastard in the Sontaran two parter with Ten?

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Post #: 16972

RE: Doctor Who - 28/12/2012 7:39:21 PM

matty_b

Posts: 13121
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

No, different Sontaran.

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Post #: 16973

RE: Doctor Who - 29/12/2012 3:40:22 AM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2176
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

I just typed a lovely post on how magnificent and lovely the episode was....and as frequently happens on the internet...I lost it. So, the episode was magnificent and her's some naked speculation!

The Spoilers below are not really spoilers just stuff we know based on the tabloids this year and non-contested mention of the same in DWM in relation to next year's production.

****SPECULATION ****

1. Clara was born on November 23rd 1866. Doctor Who first aired on November 23rd 1963, the day after Kennedy was shot (allegedly) by Lee Harvery Oswald. Meet Clara Oswin Oswald. Will the anniversary episode be Kennedy based? What did the Justice (League) say in Let's Kill Hitler..."time can be rewritten, remember Kennedy?" But if Kennedy isn't shot then The Doctor and Nixon can't rid the world of The Silence?

****AND (NOT-REALLY) SPOILERS (paltry accepted production notes for series 7)***
2. Vastra and her Scooby gang will return in episodes 6 and 8. 6 is one of two written by Mark Gatiss. And 6 is his "base under siege" par excellence episode. It was a bit random of The Doctor to alert the snow Intelligence of the 1967 map of the London Underground as Earth's defensive weakness. Will the London Underground be the base under siege a la the second doctor's Yeti episode (The Web of Fear? can't remember the title)? We know the Ice Warriors are returning this year. Ice Warriors? Yeti? Snowmen...Vastra's affinity with the London Underground?

3. If Doctor Simeon is so intent on advertising the Great Intelligence with his GI logo on business cards then why does the stainglass logo in his office project "GI" inward? What's he advertising (through mirror writing) on the other side? "I J"? "I 9" perhaps. The tops and tails on the "I" could mirror an "L" just the same. What could this mean. Fuck knows....i don't know.

4. The Doctor with his Sherlock cane points to the newspaper article "Tragedy at Darkover House". Could be nothing. But "Darkover" seems a bit conspicuous for something that isn't said in dialogue. Ever since Torchwood and Mr. Saxon I've been looking out for anagrams. We had "Morpeth Jetsan's" "Phantom Jester" from last year. Mwa-hahahha!

< Message edited by demoncleaner -- 29/12/2012 5:34:03 AM >

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Post #: 16974

RE: Doctor Who - 29/12/2012 3:56:59 AM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2176
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86

I thought the battered outside was just a sign that The Doctor had been neglecting it.

Agree with this, and also like to think that the Doctor had been neglecting it for a LONG time, like Moffat saying it literally took a hundred years or so for the Doctor to get over the Ponds. Vastra says the Doctor hasn't helped anyone for a long time....and when ancient beings say that, they mean a LONG time. If so, it' s a nice nod to the Doctor's commitment to his previous companions without us having to sit through it. It'll be interesting to hear how old he is the next time his age is mentioned.

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Post #: 16975

RE: Doctor Who - 29/12/2012 4:07:12 AM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2176
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonty

Am probably forgetting the details but the doctor said that a friend of his saved Strax. Who the hell was that??

It's something that's happened in between episodes - you didn't miss anything. As Base said, it's probably Vastra's medical technology that revived Strax.

I haven't seen it, but there's a deleted scene, official and free to view on Youtube that apparently explains Strax coming back. In Moffat's interviews about this episode he openly face-palms a mistake he made in previously killing off an unknownst to him great character. Was it a mistake? Or has he tied Strax's resurrection with Clara's? The red blinking glare above her when she lies on the couch is eerlily similar to the same shot of Oswin reclining and speaking to her dictaphone at the start of Asylum...with a red, blinking light cast on her. Speculation ago-go friends!

< Message edited by demoncleaner -- 29/12/2012 4:08:00 AM >

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Post #: 16976

RE: Doctor Who - 29/12/2012 4:19:11 AM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2176
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Guess I had too much humbug for this story. cant help feeling the 'what she thinks affects reality' thing is a little too close to Amy and her dreams rewriting time etc. Guessing she will either have picked up the not dying and reality alteration from her parents, the doctor and river (the latter having been conceived in the tardis, by her not dying father and reality altering dream having mother) although I do hope it is something less obvious. Also really really hope Moffat doesnt once again posit both Sherlock and Holmes on a similar point (as with how does the main character get out of apoarently dying), Looks like others didnt find the Holmes thing smugly self indulgent :-( Bah! Humbug!! Etc!!! ;-)

I don't think it has to be as pretentious or as sentimental as this. Simeon has to spray aritificial snow onto the house to set up a "localised" communication between ye old snow globe and the Ice Governess, In effect, he's setting up a direct two-way walkie talkie between the 2 locations. This means that the rain isn't a "oooohhh God, London's crying on the most magical night of the year" type thing. It's just a point-to-point psychic "thing". (Words, a grown-up atheist never thought he'd see himsefl type

).

I thought last year's was awful, for the deficit between sentiment and sci-fi plot sense. The year before's was really good, very magical, good character moments that were beguiling, but singing to fucking sky sharks was a bit much in the deficit between sci-fi plot sense and sentiment. I was delighted to watch this again and make a (sort of) sense of the sci-fi bit. In essence, an extremely strong character piece with 10 out of 10 for humour and magic and actually scores heavily on the shortest distance between plot logic and sentiment possible in a Christmas episode. Loved it to obliterated smithereen bits as Strax might say.

< Message edited by demoncleaner -- 29/12/2012 4:40:24 AM >

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Post #: 16977

RE: Doctor Who - 29/12/2012 4:38:42 AM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2176
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

Other things occur which I must get out of my system!

I'm never one to celebrate original music in a production but how good was Murray Gold's "Clara's theme"? The stairway to the sky, her peering round the lampost and that music's lilting introduction made for a truly magical Christmas episode. In the past two years of Moffat doing Christmas it's been empirically evident he's begging, borrowing and stealing from children's established literature to appropriate for Doctor Who, but in that one moment he kind of made his own vie for original children's literature. Lovely and class, and very much a class act.

Who did the voice for the Intelligence? At times it sounded like Gambon and other times it's like McKellen. That bit was very much like the computer in Face of Evil, which has the 4th Doctor's voice all along and is finally audily deranged into the voice of a child. Scary Busquets!

< Message edited by demoncleaner -- 29/12/2012 4:39:56 AM >

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Post #: 16978

RE: Doctor Who - 29/12/2012 4:59:07 AM

demoncleaner

Posts: 2176
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski
Also really really hope Moffat doesnt once again posit both Sherlock and Holmes on a similar point (as with how does the main character get out of apoarently dying), Looks like others didnt find the Holmes thing smugly self indulgent :-( Bah! Humbug!! Etc!!! ;-)

On this point I have to say that I think that the Sherlock infleunce does rest heavily on this episode but that the deer stalker, as broad a reference as you can possibly get, wasn't even the start of this influence. The umbrella bit, Vastra's interview with Clara were heavily based on the system of deduction. I think that Clara was heavily assessed and tested in this episode as the new companion on the basis of deductions, but she does the same back to Vastra and the Doctor, and the audience realisies then perhaps that it's just as important for the companion to establish whether this fucking weirdo and his weirdo mates can be trusted. The Sherlock influence was a canny device to establish an equal footing of trust between Doctor and companion.

On the notion of companions, I thought this was very clever to denote the difference between assistant and companion. Vastra and her Scooby Doo gang are very much assistants. "We assist The Doctor, but that doesn't mean we agree with his seclusion." Liz Shaw and Jo Grant are assistants (cause that's their job). Their successor Sarah Jane, was defiitely not an assistant. The first Romana is. Vastra, Jenny and Strax are, but Clara is a companion. It was great to see that job interview, between someone who wasn't, interview someone who could be. Vastra at that moment is Alan Sugar, and the other two are...well, the other two.

< Message edited by demoncleaner -- 29/12/2012 5:19:21 AM >

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Post #: 16979

RE: Doctor Who - 29/12/2012 7:28:53 AM

Base

Posts: 4248
Joined: 30/3/2006
From: Surrey, UK

quote:

ORIGINAL: demoncleaner
****SPECULATION ****

1. Clara was born on November 23rd 1866. Doctor Who first aired on November 23rd 1963, the day after Kennedy was shot (allegedly) by Lee Harvery Oswald. Meet Clara Oswin Oswald. Will the anniversary episode be Kennedy based? What did the Justice (League) say in Let's Kill Hitler..."time can be rewritten, remember Kennedy?" But if Kennedy isn't shot then The Doctor and Nixon can't rid the world of The Silence?

Has Kennedy ever been mentioned in Dr Who? You're assuming that in the Who-verse he has already been shot, he may live in the current time line and they have to change it to that he is shot. Could be a very dark storyline for an anniversary though!!!

Also, it was McKellan doing the voice of the intelligence! Great to have him, but a shame he didn't get to actually appear!!

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Post #: 16980