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RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:21:51 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Karen Gillan's first interview on a US talk show (Conan) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b1DXpaUpSw


It's not her first, she's been on Craig Ferguson's show.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 30/9/2012 9:24:25 PM >


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Post #: 16771
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:22:21 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3223
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't know if this has been mentioned but what actually makes me sad is the fact that Amy died five years after Rory


I was more pleased she got to live out her whole life time with him.


Good for you? I guess






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RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:22:43 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Karen Gillan's first interview on a US talk show (Conan) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b1DXpaUpSw


It's not her fist, she's been on Craig Ferguson's show.


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Post #: 16773
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:22:52 PM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Karen Gillan's first interview on a US talk show (Conan) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b1DXpaUpSw


It's not her fist, she's been on Craig Ferguson's show.


True, but that's more US/Scottish. I thought she came across surprisingly well on Conan.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

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Post #: 16774
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:24:01 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker
I thought it was a pretty dark ending actually, the only bit of comfort to be drawn from it is the fact that they lived together. Their lives would have been tinged with a real sadness knowing everything they did and everyone they lost.


Indeed. Amy never saw her parents again and Rory never saw his dad. Add to that the fact they couldn't have kids either, it's pretty bleak. But, as has been said, they did have each other.

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Post #: 16775
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:28:19 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker
I thought it was a pretty dark ending actually, the only bit of comfort to be drawn from it is the fact that they lived together. Their lives would have been tinged with a real sadness knowing everything they did and everyone they lost.


Indeed. Amy never saw her parents again and Rory never saw his dad. Add to that the fact they couldn't have kids either, it's pretty bleak. But, as has been said, they did have each other.


I thought the choice of Mark Williams as Rory's dad was excellent - really did look like it could be his father. I think Dr Who should really go to his dad and explain what happened, definately not as bad as wondering what happened to his son for the rest of his tortured life.

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Post #: 16776
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:28:50 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi




Oh well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Karen Gillan's first interview on a US talk show (Conan) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b1DXpaUpSw


It's not her fist, she's been on Craig Ferguson's show.




Ha. In fact, that's not even rude. Anyway, it has been changed

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
True, but that's more US/Scottish. I thought she came across surprisingly well on Conan.


No, it's an American show made in America for an American network co-written by Americans and shot by an American crew. And why 'surprisingly well'?

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Post #: 16777
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:30:00 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker
I think Dr Who should really go to his dad and explain what happened, definately not as bad as wondering what happened to his son for the rest of his tortured life.


But....that's not his name!





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Post #: 16778
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 11:59:48 PM   
originalcynic


Posts: 35
Joined: 30/9/2012
His names Malcolm. Or so the Daily Mail said


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Post #: 16779
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:23:47 AM   
musht


Posts: 1881
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland
Only watched the episode there and I'm not going to read back over the last few pages (I tries but it's really late).

Two Things!!

1. There's no way that a hundredth of a second goes by without someone looking at the Statue of Liberty, and certainly not enough time for it to stroll into Manhattan (That really annoyed me)

2. Am I right in thinking that the Doctor can only not visit Manhattan, so surely all the Ponds have to do is catch a train to Boston (or anywhere outside Manhattan) and he'd be able to rescue them?

< Message edited by musht -- 1/10/2012 1:25:27 AM >


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Post #: 16780
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:27:52 AM   
themightyhutch


Posts: 3715
Joined: 18/2/2007
From: surrey
Hated it. It was a good episode in places, creepy in the right places and generally entertaining but the ending, good god that wasn't the right ending. It just didn't work. As someone who's enjoyed the whole series and have absolutely loved Amy and Rory I just felt a bit short changed by it. Amy's farewell was sad, and I liked how she absolutely chose to spend her life with Rory rather than have continued adventures but what happened to Rory's? It was really bad storytelling. Rory notices that someone with the exact same name died (which we'd seen before) and then he's gone. Just gone. No payoff with the Doctor, no payoff with his daughter (although I could have left that as I find it jarring when River says Mother/Father) and most importantly, no payoff with the viewer, especially those who like me have loved Rory and thought he was consistently the best character on the show. Even if Moffat was going for a situation with shock at his exit he didn't need to signpost it. Like Rgirvan I believe it isn't the end because it just felt so unfinished. Even if it was a cop-out I would have been so much happier if they just chose to leave for their life together rather than that. I just know that Moffat can do better because we've seen him do better.

I'm going to watch it again and I hope I'm wrong and there was something hidden but generally I didn't really like it.

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Post #: 16781
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:36:19 AM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3223
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

Am I right in thinking that the Doctor can only not visit Manhattan, so surely all the Ponds have to do is catch a train to Boston (or anywhere outside Manhattan) and he'd be able to rescue them?


No, it's the whole "He's already become part of events" situation a la Girl in the Fireplace.

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Post #: 16782
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:45:11 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

Am I right in thinking that the Doctor can only not visit Manhattan, so surely all the Ponds have to do is catch a train to Boston (or anywhere outside Manhattan) and he'd be able to rescue them?


No, it's the whole "He's already become part of events" situation a la Girl in the Fireplace.


Oh, I get it. The Doctor can absolutely change things but not if he has already done so because he can't be involved if he is already involved. That made little sense typing it out but I think I get it now!


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Post #: 16783
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:48:08 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23709
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
Surely the scene beforehand with Rory on the ledge encapsulated everything about his character and gave the audience the emotional payoff they needed. It did for me. and three dramatic emotional farewell scenes stacked on top of each other (Rory and Amy, Rory, Amy) would have been shallow melodrama on an RTD-esque scale - the way it was structured meant that the effect of the ledge scene wasn't cancelled out by basically doing it again less than five minutes later.

and speaking as a massive Rory fanboy, Amy's personal relationship with the Doctor needed to be placed at the centre of the show for that scene. The two key relationship dynamics of the last three seasons have been Amy/Doctor and Amy/Rory, and they both got their own send-off.

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Post #: 16784
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:52:27 AM   
paul_ie86


Posts: 11422
Joined: 4/1/2007
From: Chelsea Hotel #2
Was River still under arrest when they were at the Byzantium?

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Post #: 16785
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:55:43 AM   
musht


Posts: 1881
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

Am I right in thinking that the Doctor can only not visit Manhattan, so surely all the Ponds have to do is catch a train to Boston (or anywhere outside Manhattan) and he'd be able to rescue them?


No, it's the whole "He's already become part of events" situation a la Girl in the Fireplace.


Oh, I get it. The Doctor can absolutely change things but not if he has already done so because he can't be involved if he is already involved. That made little sense typing it out but I think I get it now!t



Rrrrrrright, I'm still confused but I'll take your word for it. I'll have to rewatch 'Girl in the Fireplace'

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Post #: 16786
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 1:58:41 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

Am I right in thinking that the Doctor can only not visit Manhattan, so surely all the Ponds have to do is catch a train to Boston (or anywhere outside Manhattan) and he'd be able to rescue them?


No, it's the whole "He's already become part of events" situation a la Girl in the Fireplace.


Oh, I get it. The Doctor can absolutely change things but not if he has already done so because he can't be involved if he is already involved. That made little sense typing it out but I think I get it now!t



Rrrrrrright, I'm still confused but I'll take your word for it. I'll have to rewatch 'Girl in the Fireplace'


I think I understand it now. It confuses me too.

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Post #: 16787
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 2:00:31 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
What if he visited Manhattan during a time when the Pond's are alive, but he just avoided meeting them?

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Post #: 16788
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 2:22:16 AM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3223
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

and speaking as a massive Rory fanboy, Amy's personal relationship with the Doctor needed to be placed at the centre of the show for that scene. The two key relationship dynamics of the last three seasons have been Amy/Doctor and Amy/Rory, and they both got their own send-off.


Absolutely agree with this one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paul_ie86

Was River still under arrest when they were at the Byzantium?


Yep - she says at the end of that adventure "I might have done enough to earn a pardon this time".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

What if he visited Manhattan during a time when the Pond's are alive, but he just avoided meeting them?


If he ever visits Manhattan during that period again, he will never meet them. Because the fact that he never did* has already happened for Amy and Rory.

*Going off Amy's final note in the book, at least.

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Post #: 16789
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 12:50:44 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3113
Joined: 30/9/2005
Still not getting how Amy and Rory seeing their grave makes them dieing back then a fixed point. I mean if its the same as how in Blink, The Doctor was always going to make it back to present day because he was reading the transcript given to him from Sally Sparrow that she wrote after she had been saved. Fine. But then couldn't it have just as easily gone the other way? Why wasn't it a case of The Doctor was alaways going to back and save them so the gravestone is just a marker. In fact, why couldn't The Doctor have gone back, saved them, then arranged for a gravestone to be made and put in that spot, so that rory still saw it and the timeline was still maintained? In the logic of the show, time is supposed to consist of moments that can be changed and are continually in flux and fixed points which must not or cannot be changed. What I struggle to grasp is what exactly makes this event a fixed point? I mean in Series 1 (newWho), The Doctor was fine taking Rose back to be there for her father whilst he died, despite her mother already telling her that he died alone. So they could change that. (Granted its not the best example as Rose then fucks up the timeline by trying to save her dad, but still) I also don't buy into The Doctor just giving up so easily on them. A series ago he messed with a supposed fixed point to save his own life yet here he just gives in straight away. What happened to last episode's "I will defend them to my last breath." Or promising Rory's dad that he wouldn't let the die and would always bring them home safely. In fact, has he even bothered to let mark Williams where/when they are??? What a load of bollocks.

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Post #: 16790
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 12:53:09 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
Was okay. Character stuff good enough, but reuse of angels bit lame, Hopefully the new blood will bring new life to the show, but it;s now so hit and miss I can take or leave it.



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Post #: 16791
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 6:59:54 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Still not getting how Amy and Rory seeing their grave makes them dieing back then a fixed point. I mean if its the same as how in Blink, The Doctor was always going to make it back to present day because he was reading the transcript given to him from Sally Sparrow that she wrote after she had been saved. Fine. But then couldn't it have just as easily gone the other way? Why wasn't it a case of The Doctor was alaways going to back and save them so the gravestone is just a marker. In fact, why couldn't The Doctor have gone back, saved them, then arranged for a gravestone to be made and put in that spot, so that rory still saw it and the timeline was still maintained? In the logic of the show, time is supposed to consist of moments that can be changed and are continually in flux and fixed points which must not or cannot be changed. What I struggle to grasp is what exactly makes this event a fixed point? I mean in Series 1 (newWho), The Doctor was fine taking Rose back to be there for her father whilst he died, despite her mother already telling her that he died alone. So they could change that. (Granted its not the best example as Rose then fucks up the timeline by trying to save her dad, but still) I also don't buy into The Doctor just giving up so easily on them. A series ago he messed with a supposed fixed point to save his own life yet here he just gives in straight away. What happened to last episode's "I will defend them to my last breath." Or promising Rory's dad that he wouldn't let the die and would always bring them home safely. In fact, has he even bothered to let mark Williams where/when they are??? What a load of bollocks.


This is a very good post....

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Post #: 16792
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 7:16:16 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville
Or promising Rory's dad that he wouldn't let the die and would always bring them home safely. In fact, has he even bothered to let mark Williams where/when they are??? What a load of bollocks.



Well, to be fair, the episode ended........

I'm guessing his dad will be told off-screen this could be for a number of reasons. It could be because they couldn't get Mark Williams for the episode (they are shot out of order) or Moff thought it would have slowed the episode down or they couldn't fit it in due to running time. Also, we don't have to see everything, I think it's safe to assume the Doctor will take care of that. Who knows how long it is for him between losing Amy and the upcoming Christmas ep?

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RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 7:55:45 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
Better on a second viewing. Guess the 'drama' of the things said to Rory's dad is also for repeat viewings: he sounds determined to save them no matter what, but he will fail. Would quite like to see his dad again, in a storyline type I can't remember seeing in Who...Brian, grief stricken loses all the doddery dadness and uses the amiability of the Doctor to lead him into a trap set by a baddie, helped by Brian who simply wants revenge, and wont be changing his mind, perhaps killed in the plot...

Brian...why?

My son is dead. Because he met you. I don't care how sorry you think you are. You don't know the meaning of the word. But you will. Because you met me.

etc.

No reason why 'the effect the doctor has on the people he meets' thematic stuff can't lead to people wanting vengeance on him and future continuty, and because of the circumstances, he'd agree he'd deserve it, so good acting opps for all concerned.

In the past, the continuity of the show wasn't soap like, week to week, it was standalone adventures with recurring baddies now and then to create a broader canvas. Hopefully that's where things are heading, cos the standalones are beginning to get tedious.

TATM was a 'necessary' standalone bringing an iteration of the core cast grouping to an end. Can;t help feeling that a bigger version of the story, as a two parter, opening the series, or at least the secnd tale could have allowed ALL the character beats between the main group that featured in the first five eps to be covered more cogently and affectingly, because the beats would have followed one another and been contained within one plot. Much of the first 5 eps felt like treading water, waiting for the big finish, and as such, can't help thinking the standalones would have been better for a new companion, settling in, rather than having Rory and Amy present, sometimes almost as dead wood.

Who has had worse runs than the recent 5 eps. But week to week, there was no WOW factor because the hype trailing the departure of the Ponds/Williams/whatever meant for me at least, a strangely sterile run of episodes reliant on gimmicky content, the fun neutered by the knowledge of imminent departure, the drama diluted by having Matt Smith acting his arse off in the context of hackneyed American cinematic tropes. Frankly, if I want to see dinosaurs, I can look elsewhere, I can see westerns if I want, and the film noir/detective stylings were basically shite.

If the 'in the style of a particular genre of film' stuff continues, I'll probably be taking a Wholiday. I'm not obsessive enough to watch it no matter what, and wont be over-arsed to tune in if the unlimited possibilities of the series set up, which cant be matched by any other show, ever, aren't to be the seed for the style of the show. Yes the show has done 'genre' before, but in the olden days, the focus still remained the title character in the scenario. Of late the doctor can tend to seem like a passenger, rather than the pilot of his own plane. Shite metaphor, but there you go.

< Message edited by jobloffski -- 1/10/2012 8:22:47 PM >


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Post #: 16794
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 8:31:04 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3113
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville

Still not getting how Amy and Rory seeing their grave makes them dieing back then a fixed point. I mean if its the same as how in Blink, The Doctor was always going to make it back to present day because he was reading the transcript given to him from Sally Sparrow that she wrote after she had been saved. Fine. But then couldn't it have just as easily gone the other way? Why wasn't it a case of The Doctor was alaways going to back and save them so the gravestone is just a marker. In fact, why couldn't The Doctor have gone back, saved them, then arranged for a gravestone to be made and put in that spot, so that rory still saw it and the timeline was still maintained? In the logic of the show, time is supposed to consist of moments that can be changed and are continually in flux and fixed points which must not or cannot be changed. What I struggle to grasp is what exactly makes this event a fixed point? I mean in Series 1 (newWho), The Doctor was fine taking Rose back to be there for her father whilst he died, despite her mother already telling her that he died alone. So they could change that. (Granted its not the best example as Rose then fucks up the timeline by trying to save her dad, but still) I also don't buy into The Doctor just giving up so easily on them. A series ago he messed with a supposed fixed point to save his own life yet here he just gives in straight away. What happened to last episode's "I will defend them to my last breath." Or promising Rory's dad that he wouldn't let the die and would always bring them home safely. In fact, has he even bothered to let mark Williams where/when they are??? What a load of bollocks.


This is a very good post....





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Post #: 16795
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 8:37:36 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
You know Fluke, if he was disagreeing with you he'd be typing in blue font

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Post #: 16796
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 9:24:54 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hood_Man

You know Fluke, if he was disagreeing with you he'd be typing in blue font


Yes Vadersville I agree with what you're saying. I would have had Amy turned into a Cyberwoman and Rory having to kill her - that would have been fucked up

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Post #: 16797
RE: Doctor Who - 1/10/2012 11:41:34 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3223
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

If they ever did they better do it in the way they added Rose to Partners In Crime after the previews - had that been left off the press copies too?


IIRC yes, Rose didn't appear on screen in PiC until actual transmission.


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Post #: 16798
RE: Doctor Who - 3/10/2012 12:13:24 PM   
themightyhutch


Posts: 3715
Joined: 18/2/2007
From: surrey
Rewatched it and actually it's much much better than I thought. The bit on the rooftop was beautiful, some of the best writing the show has ever had. The episode for all its plot holes (Statue of Liberty moving, why don't they meet Rory in a nearby city and bring him home) is still very good and classic Doctor Who.

I just can't get rid of that niggle that Rory's exit could have been so much better played. Why did he go back? There was literally no cause for him to go back. That is still whichever way you look at it poor storytelling and the dialogue is really clunky to go with it.

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Post #: 16799
RE: Doctor Who - 4/10/2012 1:18:29 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7025
Joined: 18/11/2006
looks like the doctor will be in need of xmas cheer this time.

the aussie p m wants new who down under-

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2012/09/dwn041012130511.html

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Post #: 16800
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