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RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:15:38 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
What age was Amy in this episode - trying to work out what year she died.

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RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:16:15 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
1994 it seems!

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Post #: 16742
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:16:32 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
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From: Land of the Scots
I've never understood that, he changes things all the time. He saved that family in Pompeii and isn't he changing things just by visiting Amelia when he didn't originally anyway? Time travel is confusing

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Post #: 16743
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:16:51 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

What age was Amy in this episode - trying to work out what year she died.


She died when she was 95 a few years after Rory

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Post #: 16744
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:19:19 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I've never understood that, he changes things all the time. He saved that family in Pompeii and isn't he changing things just by visiting Amelia when he didn't originally anyway? Time travel is confusing


Yeah surely if you are a time traveller going backwards who chooses to interact with people you are constantly changing things that have already happened?

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Post #: 16745
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:23:22 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I've never understood that, he changes things all the time. He saved that family in Pompeii and isn't he changing things just by visiting Amelia when he didn't originally anyway? Time travel is confusing


He can break the rules, but tries his hardest not to - Waters of Mars sets this up quite well. When the Timelords were there, you simply couldn't go back into the past and change things as you pleased. But with them gone, the Doctor did change the past and looked what happened?

I think of it like a tapestry - some threads are much stronger and more important than others - those are the fixed points. To remove them would be to risk destorying the fabric of time/space.

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Post #: 16746
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:23:35 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
Joined: 1/10/2005
He gave a speech then about what are fixed points - where you know exactly how things happened and those can't change. And with stuff like the great fire although we know it took place, them causing it didn't change history, it just is how it actually happened.

But a fixed point is different but the Pompeii epi discussed it quite a bit. But he can't go back in his own timeline to change things if they didn't go well and cross over things - it's only odd circs where you get the multi-doctor stories.

Edit - or, as Rgirv says, causing fuck-ups as a result.


< Message edited by elab49 -- 30/9/2012 8:26:32 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 16747
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:24:09 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
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From: Land of the Scots
Exactly. It only happens that way when the script says so

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Post #: 16748
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:25:52 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
Here is a mystery - how exactly did the Doctor get that book? The point is brushed aside...but something is up there I think.

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Post #: 16749
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:31:37 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Didn't Amy give him the book? It was sent to her publishing house or whatever job she had this time round.

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Post #: 16750
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:31:59 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
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Didn't River imply she got Amy to put it in his pocket (and presumably to act innocent?) - she said she'd have to get Amy to get it published didn't she? 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 16751
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:35:37 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
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From: the dark side of the sun
So why did Amy going back in time create a fixed point?

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Post #: 16752
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:35:47 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Didn't River imply she got Amy to put it in his pocket (and presumably to act innocent?) - she said she'd have to get Amy to get it published didn't she? 


Yeah - but present day Amy knew nothing about it, and old age Amy wasn't alive. River knew nothing about it either. How did it get to the Doctor?

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 16753
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:38:12 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

So why did Amy going back in time create a fixed point?


Because she was recorded to have died - as seen on that gravestone. That is now a fixed point for the Doctor - in the same way that Adelaide was recorded as dying on Mars. Now - could the Doctor have attempted something? Maybe - but he was punished before, and due to the paradox from the first time, the time energy around New York in that year is weak - risk of blowing up the city is too great.



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Post #: 16754
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:42:41 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fluke Skywalker

So why did Amy going back in time create a fixed point?


Because she was recorded to have died - as seen on that gravestone. That is now a fixed point for the Doctor - in the same way that Adelaide was recorded as dying on Mars. Now - could the Doctor have attempted something? Maybe - but he was punished before, and due to the paradox from the first time, the time energy around New York in that year is weak - risk of blowing up the city is too great.




So the fixed point is them living out their lives and dying in Manhattan - does this prevent him from visiting them and taking them on missions?

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Post #: 16755
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:43:01 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
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From: Land of the Scots
I don't know if this has been mentioned but what actually makes me sad is the fact that Amy died five years after Rory

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Post #: 16756
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:44:25 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Didn't River imply she got Amy to put it in his pocket (and presumably to act innocent?) - she said she'd have to get Amy to get it published didn't she? 


Yeah - but present day Amy knew nothing about it, and old age Amy wasn't alive. River knew nothing about it either. How did it get to the Doctor?


Which'll be why she said she had to right it. And if she got Amy to publish it I'd guess the only out is Amy fibbed (although River had her promise not to read it).

I don't think they can quite do anything. If they do something timey wimey they at least have to try to come up with an explanation that fits into canon or doesn't just seem silly or they'll be called on it. And this fixed pt thing fit into, I think, previous comments on it.It's a closed loop kind of thing.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 16757
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:46:11 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Didn't River imply she got Amy to put it in his pocket (and presumably to act innocent?) - she said she'd have to get Amy to get it published didn't she? 


Yeah - but present day Amy knew nothing about it, and old age Amy wasn't alive. River knew nothing about it either. How did it get to the Doctor?


Which'll be why she said she had to right it. And if she got Amy to publish it I'd guess the only out is Amy fibbed (although River had her promise not to read it).

I don't think they can quite do anything. If they do something timey wimey they at least have to try to come up with an explanation that fits into canon or doesn't just seem silly or they'll be called on it. And this fixed pt thing fit into, I think, previous comments on it.It's a closed loop kind of thing.



I am taking it as another clue that something is up with this episode. The Doctor randomly appears with a book no one else knows about.Feels like a Moffat thing.

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 16758
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:48:32 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't know if this has been mentioned but what actually makes me sad is the fact that Amy died five years after Rory


Yeah that was bloody sad - can you imagine the poor thing, a gentle old dear in her nineties, memories fading, in ill health - and no one around her having the slightest clue of what a truly amazing life she led...

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Post #: 16759
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:53:35 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Didn't River imply she got Amy to put it in his pocket (and presumably to act innocent?) - she said she'd have to get Amy to get it published didn't she? 


Yeah - but present day Amy knew nothing about it, and old age Amy wasn't alive. River knew nothing about it either. How did it get to the Doctor?


Which'll be why she said she had to right it. And if she got Amy to publish it I'd guess the only out is Amy fibbed (although River had her promise not to read it).

I don't think they can quite do anything. If they do something timey wimey they at least have to try to come up with an explanation that fits into canon or doesn't just seem silly or they'll be called on it. And this fixed pt thing fit into, I think, previous comments on it.It's a closed loop kind of thing.



I am taking it as another clue that something is up with this episode. The Doctor randomly appears with a book no one else knows about.Feels like a Moffat thing.


If you start going Prisoner Zero we could kettle you somewhere for your own good

You are kind of going from 'how was the arcless mini-series' to spying things in every corner a bit!


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 16760
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:55:33 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
TRUST NOTHING. QUESTION EVERYTHING.

Just watched that final days of the Ponds doc - if they do come back there will be so many pissed off people.

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It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


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Post #: 16761
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:56:43 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3217
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't know if this has been mentioned but what actually makes me sad is the fact that Amy died five years after Rory


I was more pleased she got to live out her whole life time with him.

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Post #: 16762
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 8:58:21 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
Joined: 1/10/2005
If they ever did they better do it in the way they added Rose to Partners In Crime after the previews - had that been left off the press copies too?

Note to Moffat - THAT'S the way you avoid spoilers. Lie to people.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 16763
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:00:56 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

TRUST NOTHING. QUESTION EVERYTHING.

Just watched that final days of the Ponds doc - if they do come back there will be so many pissed off people.


It's the old mixed emotions - you don't want to accept you're never going to see them again, but having them appear lessens the impact of their departure. I say 'them' but only really mean Amy


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Post #: 16764
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:05:06 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't know if this has been mentioned but what actually makes me sad is the fact that Amy died five years after Rory


I was more pleased she got to live out her whole life time with him.


Good for you? I guess

While it is true she spent the rest of his life with him, I still think its sad that she died in the past, alone, without her family, the Doctor and even without Rory, who she sacrificed herself for. Him dying five years before makes it a tad bittersweet and especially goes against the whole 'together or not at all' deal. This isn't a complaint, I just thought it was a bit sad. Moffat can be a bit cruel sometimes.

Like I say, it was a bittersweet ending.

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Post #: 16765
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:06:52 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012
haha yeah not only was last nights episode difficult because It would be the last time I get my dose of Karen Gillan, they go and turn up the hotness by putting a pair of glasses on her, be still my beating heart
Although I did recently find out she's a smoker so the hotness percentage was lowered a bit

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Post #: 16766
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:12:03 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity
Although I did recently find out she's a smoker so the hotness percentage was lowered a bit


Is she? Dammit!

(like I had a shot anyway )


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Post #: 16767
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:12:43 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54599
Joined: 1/10/2005
Just realised I've only been assumed the dates are current on the stone BUT I was also basing the back flip timing based on Blink as well. WHich wasn't massively far back in the past? 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 16768
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:15:36 PM   
vad3r


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Karen Gillan's first interview on a US talk show (Conan) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b1DXpaUpSw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

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Post #: 16769
RE: Doctor Who - 30/9/2012 9:16:54 PM   
Fluke Skywalker


Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't know if this has been mentioned but what actually makes me sad is the fact that Amy died five years after Rory


I was more pleased she got to live out her whole life time with him.


Good for you? I guess

While it is true she spent the rest of his life with him, I still think its sad that she died in the past, alone, without her family, the Doctor and even without Rory, who she sacrificed herself for. Him dying five years before makes it a tad bittersweet and especially goes against the whole 'together or not at all' deal. This isn't a complaint, I just thought it was a bit sad. Moffat can be a bit cruel sometimes.

Like I say, it was a bittersweet ending.


I thought it was a pretty dark ending actually, the only bit of comfort to be drawn from it is the fact that they lived together. Their lives would have been tinged with a real sadness knowing everything they did and everyone they lost.

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Post #: 16770
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