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RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 29/1/2013 9:42:48 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Private Hudson

Funnily enough, I agree with Sutty in that I love the 1978 film, one of my all time faves.

However, I actually do agree with the reboot as it has worked for other franchises, but I still think it is pretty stupid not to incorporate the Superman theme in it.

Star Trek has had many different composers, yet they all still found somewhere for the original TV theme by Alexander Courage.


Its amazing when you think about it!. 1978! 35 years ago. The best superhero movie ever made and still not beaten. All those years and all that technology. I think since BAtman 89, Iron-man was the last time I was really wowed by a superhero movie!

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Post #: 2461
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 29/1/2013 9:59:28 PM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2324
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty
Sidenote: I think that Costners casting as Jonathon Kent is genius. Genius.


Agreed. I was over the moon when I heard that bit of casting. Fair dos, this film has an absolutely stellar cast. And funnily enough, Nolan himself cited Donner's Superman as a big influence when casting Batman Begins: To include lots of big-name, quality actors.

Just had a read of this AICN article - There's two images included at the bottom of the article of Nic Cage wearing a concept suit for Burton's Superman Lives (I've never seen this pic before) - Seems he might have opted for the Burton-Batman latex muscle suit...

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/60607

< Message edited by Alistair -- 29/1/2013 10:00:47 PM >

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Post #: 2462
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 8:53:41 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty
Sidenote: I think that Costners casting as Jonathon Kent is genius. Genius.


Agreed. I was over the moon when I heard that bit of casting. Fair dos, this film has an absolutely stellar cast. And funnily enough, Nolan himself cited Donner's Superman as a big influence when casting Batman Begins: To include lots of big-name, quality actors.

Just had a read of this AICN article - There's two images included at the bottom of the article of Nic Cage wearing a concept suit for Burton's Superman Lives (I've never seen this pic before) - Seems he might have opted for the Burton-Batman latex muscle suit...

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/60607

Yikes!! never seen that picture before , thanks. Cant say its much worse than any other suit, in fact it look closer to what I grew up with in comics than anything else I have seen.

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Post #: 2463
Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 8:55:54 AM   
Alistair

 

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Joined: 1/10/2005
I don't like it at all - Nic Cage doesn't look like Superman, he looks like "Normal Man" in a muscle suit.

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Post #: 2464
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 10:30:09 AM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 2873
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I would LOVE for them to use John Williams theme. But I do now understand the need to breakway. Perhaps some sort of musical homage towards the end may be a way to go? Or similar to Casino Royale where you only here THAT theme or those opening 5 bars of music at the end of the movie
 
I really, really  hope they don’t go this route myself. I found it totally jarring when the original theme suddenly blared out  at the end of Star Trek. The new motif they came up with was great and dropping that theme at the end seemed to undermine that. Personally, for me it was unnecessary and seemed shoehorned it.
 
Williams theme will do the same in MoS. You’ve spent 2 hours setting everything up afresh… and right at the end you shatter the illusion and just take the audience mindset right back to Donner.
 
I love that theme (anyone who doesn’t is quite simply dead inside) but I strongly feel that using any of it in MoS is a terrible idea.

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Post #: 2465
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 11:54:34 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: pete_traynor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I would LOVE for them to use John Williams theme. But I do now understand the need to breakway. Perhaps some sort of musical homage towards the end may be a way to go? Or similar to Casino Royale where you only here THAT theme or those opening 5 bars of music at the end of the movie
 
I really, really  hope they don’t go this route myself. I found it totally jarring when the original theme suddenly blared out  at the end of Star Trek. The new motif they came up with was great and dropping that theme at the end seemed to undermine that. Personally, for me it was unnecessary and seemed shoehorned it.
 
Williams theme will do the same in MoS. You’ve spent 2 hours setting everything up afresh… and right at the end you shatter the illusion and just take the audience mindset right back to Donner.
 
I love that theme (anyone who doesn’t is quite simply dead inside) but I strongly feel that using any of it in MoS is a terrible idea.


I guess until we here Zimmers theme its hard to argue the point. But I will anyway, Williams is unbeatable and MoS will be the worse off for not using it

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Post #: 2466
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 12:08:23 PM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 2873
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pete_traynor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I would LOVE for them to use John Williams theme. But I do now understand the need to breakway. Perhaps some sort of musical homage towards the end may be a way to go? Or similar to Casino Royale where you only here THAT theme or those opening 5 bars of music at the end of the movie
 
I really, really  hope they don't go this route myself. I found it totally jarring when the original theme suddenly blared out  at the end of Star Trek. The new motif they came up with was great and dropping that theme at the end seemed to undermine that. Personally, for me it was unnecessary and seemed shoehorned it.
 
Williams theme will do the same in MoS. You've spent 2 hours setting everything up afresh… and right at the end you shatter the illusion and just take the audience mindset right back to Donner.
 
I love that theme (anyone who doesn't is quite simply dead inside) but I strongly feel that using any of it in MoS is a terrible idea.


I guess until we here Zimmers theme its hard to argue the point. But I will anyway, Williams is unbeatable and MoS will be the worse off for not using it


It's not, It's actually hard to argue against it. Regardless of the quality of Zimmer's work it has been stated time and again that this is a completely fresh take, with no ties to previous incarnations.
 
Dropping Williams' theme into the mix will serve only to remind people of the Donner movies. It's unavoidable. Thus rendering the efforts of the preceding 2 hrs+ setting things up anew absolutely pointless.
 
But it's all moot. It's not going to be used. Makes for fun discussion but that theme will not appear in MoS.

< Message edited by pete_traynor -- 30/1/2013 12:10:07 PM >

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Post #: 2467
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 12:49:36 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: pete_traynor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pete_traynor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I would LOVE for them to use John Williams theme. But I do now understand the need to breakway. Perhaps some sort of musical homage towards the end may be a way to go? Or similar to Casino Royale where you only here THAT theme or those opening 5 bars of music at the end of the movie
 
I really, really  hope they don't go this route myself. I found it totally jarring when the original theme suddenly blared out  at the end of Star Trek. The new motif they came up with was great and dropping that theme at the end seemed to undermine that. Personally, for me it was unnecessary and seemed shoehorned it.
 
Williams theme will do the same in MoS. You've spent 2 hours setting everything up afresh… and right at the end you shatter the illusion and just take the audience mindset right back to Donner.
 
I love that theme (anyone who doesn't is quite simply dead inside) but I strongly feel that using any of it in MoS is a terrible idea.


I guess until we here Zimmers theme its hard to argue the point. But I will anyway, Williams is unbeatable and MoS will be the worse off for not using it


It's not, It's actually hard to argue against it. Regardless of the quality of Zimmer's work it has been stated time and again that this is a completely fresh take, with no ties to previous incarnations.
 
Dropping Williams' theme into the mix will serve only to remind people of the Donner movies. It's unavoidable. Thus rendering the efforts of the preceding 2 hrs+ setting things up anew absolutely pointless.
 
But it's all moot. It's not going to be used. Makes for fun discussion but that theme will not appear in MoS.


Are ties not completely unavoidable?. Just like they will always be with with Bond. This is Superman , the trailer has already showcased all the same imagery already seen in Superman movies, its tied to previous incarnation whether it likes it or not.

I admit, its hard for me to extract myself from Donner, it will always be my Superman and I am happy with that. My young kids love the Donner movies, like they love anything with Superman in (they cant sit through Returns either though! :)). They where both born after 2006, my youngest will be old enough for his first cinema experience this summer and I really wanted THIS Superman movie to be THEIR Superman.


< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 30/1/2013 2:03:40 PM >

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Post #: 2468
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 1:35:25 PM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2324
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy
Are ties not completely unavoidable?. Just like they will always be with with Bond. This is Superman , the trailer has already showcased all the same imagery already seen in Superman movies, its tied to previous incarnation whether it likes it or not.


Superman, in all his incarnations, is based on a comic book, not the Richard Donner films. So all of the imagery will be very similar and that's completely unavoidable (because it all comes from the same sources). But the interpretation of all this stuff can (and will) be completely different with 'Man of Steel'.

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want the John Williams theme associated with an entirely new take on the Superman character. Snyder is trying to do something new and different and no doubt Zimmer will too with the score. His music may work beautifully with Snyder's imagery, but Williams' theme might not work at all.

John Williams' theme was used in five Superman films, all-in. Let it be. It's time to move on! To say it must always be tied to the character of Superman would seriously restrict anyone wanting to progress this character in to new territory.

< Message edited by Alistair -- 30/1/2013 4:07:26 PM >

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Post #: 2469
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 1:50:20 PM   
Don_a_van


Posts: 97
Joined: 30/1/2007
I think it's probably the right decision not to include Williams score. As Alistair has pointed out they need to stop living in the past as that will cause inevitable comparisons to the originals. They won't be able to top Superman and Superman 2 as was clearly evidenced by Superman Returns so best to let it go.

I will say however that I'd still rate the original score as one of the best ever, I still get boosebumps when I hear it so Zimmer will have to be on absolute TOP form to even hope of having the same impact. I really hope he delivers as the film won't have nearly the same impact if he balls it up.

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Post #: 2470
RE: Snyder / Nolan Superman 2013 - 30/1/2013 2:34:50 PM   
Sutty


Posts: 3540
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row
 I'm actually lay on the sofa at home right now watching Superman: The Movie on Blu Ray. Just thought I'd share that!

My God THAT williams theme music is awe inspiring. I personally would love for it to be homaged in some way, but I fully understand the reasons why they likely won't. It is almost unfortunate in a way that Williams' music is sooo good, because although it became a part of the Superman mythos relatively late in the game and was not conceived anywhere near the time of Supes creation, it has become an indelible part of the Superman lore, just as the red cape, Supes ability to fly, Lois Lane, and the town of Smallville are.
I think this is why some have issue with it not being in Man of Steel, you know "Well the outfit is pretty much the same, why not use the music too?". Well the suit has ALWAYS been there, the music hasn't. But that is just how good the music is. It is lore!

Ah, well. Anyway, back to the movie...

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Post #: 2471
RE: Future Superman Films - 30/1/2013 4:19:37 PM   
mysterious

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 16/1/2008
Over on Total Film, there is a pic of Nicholas Cage in Supe's costume for Burton's abandoned project...

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Post #: 2472
RE: Future Superman Films - 30/1/2013 4:23:11 PM   
mysterious

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 16/1/2008
http://www.totalfilm.com/news/check-out-what-nic-cage-would-have-looked-like-as-superman

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Post #: 2473
RE: Future Superman Films - 30/1/2013 4:27:01 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: mysterious

http://www.totalfilm.com/news/check-out-what-nic-cage-would-have-looked-like-as-superman

I would still love to have seen this Superman movie. Let Burton have ago on the next 5 year reboot cycle!

You will viewers notice the similarities with this suit and the MoS suit! notice the forearm cuff area?. I would have to see a colour version to be sure but I think the red undies are gone also

< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 30/1/2013 4:30:06 PM >

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Post #: 2474
RE: Future Superman Films - 30/1/2013 7:21:05 PM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 2873
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

I would still love to have seen this Superman movie. Let Burton have ago on the next 5 year reboot cycle!



Me too! It would have been insane!

There's a guy who has a Kickstarter campaign on the go as he wants to make a feature length documentary about the failed project. Would make a great watch I'm sure.

Sorry for confusion caused above. Meant cinematic incarnations... but managed to miss that rather key word altogether

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RE: Future Superman Films - 30/1/2013 7:50:07 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES


Posts: 3463
Joined: 5/2/2012
From: Living on Lynch's quiff
 Tim Burton then: Yes
Tim Burton now: No no no.
The early Tim Burton is gone.Gone forever.

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Post #: 2476
RE: Future Superman Films - 30/1/2013 10:37:30 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
 My wife just mentioned that the photo on the cover of the latest issue of Empire looks like Bill Hader trying to be Superman. I think she might have ruined the film for me, because now every time I see him, I'll think of that.

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Post #: 2477
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 9:10:11 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009
I Have the feeling this movie is actually going to have elements of one of the 90s scripts!. Clarks isolation blah blah blah and possibly we might see Braniac!! There was a plot which involved Zod assimilating himself with Braniac somehow to gain some superpower edge over Kal. I will do some research and get some details!.

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Post #: 2478
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 10:27:54 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 5784
Joined: 18/11/2006
MOS crashes/burns then no JLA-



http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/35183/if-man-of-steel-flops-therell-be-no-justice-league/

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Post #: 2479
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 10:49:21 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

MOS crashes/burns then no JLA-



http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/35183/if-man-of-steel-flops-therell-be-no-justice-league/


I do not want MoS to crash and burn! but if it does at least we wont be subjected to JLA movie then

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Post #: 2480
Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 11:12:26 AM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2324
Joined: 1/10/2005
I can't see it failing at the box office at all. Infact I think it's going to do very well (the second trailer alone has had nearly 30 million views on YouTube). There will be a huge marketing push before too long, but I just hope they manage to market it well. Considering the visual history and heritage of all these comic book characters (including Marvel) I find the marketing (other than The Dark Knight) to be rather piss poor.

I suppose the MoS teaser poster is a little different from what we've seen before (Superman in handcuffs), so I'm curious to see where the marketing will go next. The next trailer will no doubt contain a lot of action and epic shit. That'll get bums on seats.

< Message edited by Alistair -- 31/1/2013 11:14:41 AM >

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Post #: 2481
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 11:33:25 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

I can't see it failing at the box office at all. Infact I think it's going to do very well (the second trailer alone has had nearly 30 million views on YouTube). There will be a huge marketing push before too long, but I just hope they manage to market it well. Considering the visual history and heritage of all these comic book characters (including Marvel) I find the marketing (other than The Dark Knight) to be rather piss poor.

I suppose the MoS teaser poster is a little different from what we've seen before (Superman in handcuffs), so I'm curious to see where the marketing will go next. The next trailer will no doubt contain a lot of action and epic shit. That'll get bums on seats.


A video of a toddler biting his older brothers finger has had over 504,988,834 views,...504 Million

I don't want it to fail, but I think it will. I think it will have an audience, but not the wider appeal a Superman movie should have. I use my sons has a Superhero movie test!, they are underwhelmed with MoS so far. I showed them the trailers and latest posters, one of them asked why Superman was sad!?.
On that thought I looked on google for Reeves Superman publicity shots and notice that for MoS they have clearly tried to emulate the famous Christopher Reeve publicity shot of his standing in front of the flag! Now I always thought he had the great Reeves smile in that famous pic! but no, he dead faced serious. Someone Reeves just pulls it off and Cavil doesn't.

http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Superman_Christopher-Reeve.jpg




< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 31/1/2013 11:34:08 AM >

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Post #: 2482
Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 11:53:19 AM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2324
Joined: 1/10/2005
I don't think the film is aimed at kids though is it? Much the same as The Dark Knight trilogy - None of the imagery of the marketing was oriented towards children. I reckon 99% of kids would have been thoroughly bored throughout TDKR. A film can still make a shed-load of money even if it's not generally aimed at kids (and therefore a wider audience). TDK and TDKR made a load of dosh.

I disagree with you entirely though - I believe the film is going to make a lot of money. It looks like a more interesting and relevant film than Superman Returns ever was. And that, in this day and age, appeals to people.

< Message edited by Alistair -- 31/1/2013 1:46:05 PM >

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Post #: 2483
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 11:56:52 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

I don't think the film is aimed at kids though is it? Much the same as The Dark Knight trilogy - None of the imagery of the marketing was oriented towards children. I reckon 99% of kids would have been thoroughly bored throughout TDKR. A film can still make a shed-load of imagery even if it's not generally aimed at kids. TDK and TDKR made a load of dosh.

I disagree with you entirely though - I believe the film is going to make a lot of money. It looks like a more interesting an relevant film than Superman Returns ever was. And that, in this day and age, appeals to people.


Please don't get him started on the Dark Knight trilogy


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Post #: 2484
Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 11:57:23 AM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2324
Joined: 1/10/2005
Sorry, lol

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Post #: 2485
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 12:14:02 PM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 2873
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

MOS crashes/burns then no JLA-



http://www.scifinow.co.uk/news/35183/if-man-of-steel-flops-therell-be-no-justice-league/


I really couldn’t care less about JLA getting made. I just really don’t want MoS to have anything to do with it whatsoever. Any mention of other heroes or cameos (no matter how brief) is just going to cheapen MoS for me.
 
If WB could just officially announce that this is a standalone project I would be mighty relieved!
 
I know quite some time ago Snyder said something along the lines of ‘we’re getting Superman’s house in order before worrying about JLA’. But that was a while ago, so I hope some bloody exec has not forced them to shoehorn some crap JLA link into the end of the film.


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Post #: 2486
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 12:17:56 PM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 2873
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair
I reckon 99% of kids would have been thoroughly bored throughout TDKR.


I know I was

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Post #: 2487
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 1:02:25 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair

I don't think the film is aimed at kids though is it? Much the same as The Dark Knight trilogy - None of the imagery of the marketing was oriented towards children. I reckon 99% of kids would have been thoroughly bored throughout TDKR. A film can still make a shed-load of imagery even if it's not generally aimed at kids (and therefore a wider audience). TDK and TDKR made a load of dosh.

I disagree with you entirely though - I believe the film is going to make a lot of money. It looks like a more interesting and relevant film than Superman Returns ever was. And that, in this day and age, appeals to people.


Oh no you didnt!!. Mutha ffuuu...



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Post #: 2488
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 1:09:26 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 940
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: pete_traynor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alistair
I reckon 99% of kids would have been thoroughly bored throughout TDKR.


I know I was


I think my eldest has seen Begins, I am not keen on him watching TDK! he will never see TDKR under my roof for obvious reason, mostly because I wont be buying it and it was complete shite!

I don't want Superman to be a movie I cant take my kids to! .Making a Superman like the TDK would be a huge studio mistake so I hope they haven't.they would alienate half the possible audience. Sci-Fi spaceships and spandex superhero violence is one thing!! My kids watch Avengers over and over. But Knives in peoples mouths, pencil deaths and half burned faces is another! You cant do with Superman what has been done with Batman

I am still afraid of soulless , joyless superwank fest with a ton of plot holes!. I am putting my faith in Snyder! as I for one love his movies!.

< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 31/1/2013 1:12:56 PM >

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Post #: 2489
Future Superman Films - 31/1/2013 1:43:51 PM   
Alistair

 

Posts: 2324
Joined: 1/10/2005
I definitely think MoS will be a film you'll be able to take the kids to see, no doubt about that. Whether or not it is a film that kids will actually be entertained by I don't know.

To be perfectly honest it seems that all superhero films these days are marketed towards adults with the benefit of being able to take kids (i.e, the violence is minimal and mostly fantastical). TDKR was slightly different in that it was pretty brutal, although not explicit. I don't think there's a single drop of blood in any of Nolan's Batman films.

It's interesting to note how the tone of superhero films has evolved over the years - I think Marvel's films in particular have hit the perfect tone. I wouldn't even criticise Nolan/Warners/DC for taking their characters too seriously. All they are doing is making films that are parallel to the world we live in, and that's probably the only way to make these kinds of films now. It's organic - The tone of these films has evolved with the times, so they haven't just happened upon this tone for MoS - it has just taken certain producers/writers/diectors to bring it to an audience.

< Message edited by Alistair -- 31/1/2013 2:01:41 PM >

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