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RE: Future Superman Films - 4/10/2006 5:56:30 PM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I don't really understand the bashing that Superman Returns gets sometimes. I thought Singer brought a sense of nostalgia/innocence/purity back to not just the franchise but the character, that has not been seen since Donners version. So he wanted to bring a deeper meaning to the whole thing rather than have Superman fight robots or a giant spider. So what!
Yes, there was the odd niggle. Bosworth as Lois Lane I didn't buy for a second. But look at the set pieces - which I know there was not enough of - which were excellent. The cinematography, the modified suit, the special effects, that music. And most importantly, finding someone who can be the definitive Superman for years to come. Brandon Routh was fantastic. He encapsulated both characters without resorting to imitation, yet he still reminded you of Reeve. Not an easy thing to do.
I for one am looking forward to the next Superman movie and hope Singer returns to direct.


Exactly, although I found Bosworth decent enough. Besides, the key to Superman is not a big monster: it's revealing something about Clark Kent, which the best Superman stories are.

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Post #: 91
RE: Future Superman Films - 4/10/2006 8:20:54 PM   
Sutty


Posts: 3552
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row
Superman has trancended a majority of superheros to the point were he is an icon, a legend. Singer new this and took the movie to a new level, rather than decending in to action set piece after action set piece.
You only have to look at what he did with the X-Men and its sequel to know he is the right man for the job.

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Post #: 92
RE: Future Superman Films - 5/10/2006 2:33:00 PM   
councilskivvy


Posts: 790
Joined: 21/3/2006
I agree, now I really wanted to hate this movie, because Singer left X men to make this and then that pile of monkey crap that was X3 was made by Ratner! But I loved Returns, I found very well crafted, beautifully shot each person bar Parker Posey were suited to their roles, ok so Singer nicked bits and bobs from the original, but thats his way of paying his respects to a truley classic film and a great Superman, Yeah in places this film may of been slow but so was the first X Men, you wait the sequel will blow your minds, he always does that, thank yourself lucky, you may of had Brett Ratner making Returns!

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Post #: 93
RE: Future Superman Films - 6/10/2006 6:54:12 PM   
Darth Lex


Posts: 467
Joined: 16/10/2005
From: Deep Forest
quote:

You only have to look at what he did with the X-Men and its sequel to know he is the right man for the job.

He really is!

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Post #: 94
RE: Future Superman Films - 6/10/2006 7:46:37 PM   
ThirdCoen

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: FoximusPrime

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

Some things that could make Superman 6 better than Superman Returns (not difficult).

1. An engaging plot
2. No more Luthor! 4 films is more than enough.
3. Originality.
4. A villain as powerful or more powerful than Superman
5. No kryptonite
6. At least three really good action sequences 
7. A belief that superhero films should be fun and escapist rather than pompous and humourless.
8. A change of director.
    




AMEN TO THAT! For a minute I thought I was the only one who thought Superman Returns smoked bone!!

Honestly, the film was like a collection of religious symbolism all strung together by a flimsy plot that might- just might- have been done in Superman: The Movie. But of course we have the added bonus of superboy, just to ram home the biblical bullshit even harder. Reminds me of Neo flying at the end of the Matrix: Can of worms, much?

It looked great and I'm sure it was a nice little project for Singer, but there was zero substance as an entertaining film.

Oh, and a question: What was the purpose of showing us that flashback of Clark's childhood? It seemed to have no relevance to the story whatsoever, other than to show us he was once a child. Who could fly. Is it an exercise in joining the dots? "Look, there's Kal-el as a kid with super powers. Now don't forget that cos it might come in handy later on- you know, a kid. With super powers..."

Basically, Singer's forced us to see that father-son-son-father crap, now let's focus on Superman again shall we? I am looking forward to Supes VI, but it needs a NEW story, but a GOOD, established villain/evil scheme combo (I'm fine with Luthor again, but lets leave the real estate eh?), a la Kevin Smith's pitch. Do completely original main characters in these films ever work?

I wouldn't have thought the next one could be anything other than an improvement (unless we get a shot-for-shot remake of Supes 4)



I think the purpose of the flashbacks to Clark as a boy, wherein a young Clark acquired his powers of flight in order to avoid falling through the barn roof onto some nasty looking farm hardware, was to foreshadow the fact that his powers come to him out of necessity.  So when Lois is about to be killed Superboy pushes a piano across the room, saving his mom.
Maybe it was too subtle...

(in reply to FoximusPrime)
Post #: 95
RE: Future Superman Films - 28/10/2006 2:55:35 PM   
Mr Terrific


Posts: 1639
Joined: 15/7/2006
According to (cough) Ain't it cool (cough) the Superman Sequel is a go. Apparently it will feature a non-Lex DC villian...Could this be a chance to right was what was lacking in the first film? Some serious action and a plot that almost makes sense?


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Post #: 96
RE: Future Superman Films - 28/10/2006 4:26:51 PM   
BatFan


Posts: 2124
Joined: 27/7/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: doctorolorinbats1975

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sutty

I don't really understand the bashing that Superman Returns gets sometimes. I thought Singer brought a sense of nostalgia/innocence/purity back to not just the franchise but the character, that has not been seen since Donners version. So he wanted to bring a deeper meaning to the whole thing rather than have Superman fight robots or a giant spider. So what!
Yes, there was the odd niggle. Bosworth as Lois Lane I didn't buy for a second. But look at the set pieces - which I know there was not enough of - which were excellent. The cinematography, the modified suit, the special effects, that music. And most importantly, finding someone who can be the definitive Superman for years to come. Brandon Routh was fantastic. He encapsulated both characters without resorting to imitation, yet he still reminded you of Reeve. Not an easy thing to do.
I for one am looking forward to the next Superman movie and hope Singer returns to direct.


Exactly, although I found Bosworth decent enough. Besides, the key to Superman is not a big monster: it's revealing something about Clark Kent, which the best Superman stories are.


Exactly, which is why the past 10 years of the Superman comic. Where writers have just chucked some super strong beast at him have been crap. Although saying this I wouldn't mind in the next Superman movie Superman letting loose just having some huge fight against Doomsday or Darkseid (although I think Darkseid would need to be set up in one film then revealed in a third film. Anyone who watches Justice League Unlimited and saw the last episode would know what I mean.

EDIT: Just found a clip of what I'm talking about:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ywo6F4xYTvA
This would be so cool if it happened in a film

< Message edited by BatFan -- 28/10/2006 4:29:54 PM >


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Post #: 97
RE: Future Superman Films - 28/10/2006 5:32:41 PM   
Manchurian candidate


Posts: 11123
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From: A Clear-Thinking Oasis
Forget all that Brainic tripe. Superman should team up with Flash Gordan and have some jolly adventures.

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Post #: 98
RE: Future Superman Films - 29/10/2006 9:42:49 PM   
FoximusPrime

 

Posts: 407
Joined: 11/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdCoen

quote:

ORIGINAL: FoximusPrime

AMEN TO THAT! For a minute I thought I was the only one who thought Superman Returns smoked bone!!

Honestly, the film was like a collection of religious symbolism all strung together by a flimsy plot that might- just might- have been done in Superman: The Movie. But of course we have the added bonus of superboy, just to ram home the biblical bullshit even harder. Reminds me of Neo flying at the end of the Matrix: Can of worms, much?

It looked great and I'm sure it was a nice little project for Singer, but there was zero substance as an entertaining film.

Oh, and a question: What was the purpose of showing us that flashback of Clark's childhood? It seemed to have no relevance to the story whatsoever, other than to show us he was once a child. Who could fly. Is it an exercise in joining the dots? "Look, there's Kal-el as a kid with super powers. Now don't forget that cos it might come in handy later on- you know, a kid. With super powers..."

Basically, Singer's forced us to see that father-son-son-father crap, now let's focus on Superman again shall we? I am looking forward to Supes VI, but it needs a NEW story, but a GOOD, established villain/evil scheme combo (I'm fine with Luthor again, but lets leave the real estate eh?), a la Kevin Smith's pitch. Do completely original main characters in these films ever work?

I wouldn't have thought the next one could be anything other than an improvement (unless we get a shot-for-shot remake of Supes 4)



I think the purpose of the flashbacks to Clark as a boy, wherein a young Clark acquired his powers of flight in order to avoid falling through the barn roof onto some nasty looking farm hardware, was to foreshadow the fact that his powers come to him out of necessity.  So when Lois is about to be killed Superboy pushes a piano across the room, saving his mom.
Maybe it was too subtle...



That's all well and good, putting that fantastically short and misplaced scene an hour and a half before the possible pay off. Apart from the fact that we don't know for definite that the kid threw the piano (which seems quite deliberately vague by Singer). Obviously that would be one implication of a flying piano, but your little theory gets blown to shit when the brat does all of sweet FA when not only himself, but his mother and the dude who raised him are about to die horribly in the yacht's galley. Maybe he was pretty sure he'd survive and as such couldn't care less for Lois or Cyclops? He had already saved her once...

Oh, and necessity? I'm thinking the fact the young Clark could leap a couple of miles at a time and was picking up Jonathan Kent's pickup (no pun intended) the minute he crashed on Earth, would mean that Clark was reasonably aware that a couple of steel spikes wouldn't pose too much danger.

So, not only was the scene seemingly shoe-horned into where it was, but it still doesn't have much of a point (a bit like a pre-Superman Clark wearing glasses- that's some forward planning right there).

Maybe Singer just wants some over-zealous fanboys to think it was too subtle...

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Post #: 99
RE: Future Superman Films - 29/10/2006 10:09:34 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18338
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

Oh, and necessity? I'm thinking the fact the young Clark could leap a couple of miles at a time and was picking up Jonathan Kent's pickup (no pun intended) the minute he crashed on Earth, would mean that Clark was reasonably aware that a couple of steel spikes wouldn't pose too much danger.


I'm not a big fan of the film myself finding it deeply flawed in my opinion.  However, with regards to this issue the Donner Superman was based on the Golden Age Superman whereby he had powers from the very moment he landed on Earth. Superman Returns is based on the Silver Age Superman whose powers developed over time as he was solar powered and recieved a stronger solar charge over time and as such potentially could have been damaged by the spikes as such SR is not a direct sequel but rather a loose one. 

It still does not explain how he could charge up to the degree he did when only flying above clouds for a few minutes as there would not be enough energy in the suns rays to charge him to that degree and also the fact that he had super powers when he had been away from the suns rays for 5 years yet had his powers as soon as he returned. I have found it best to put the issues  such as these (and the film) to one side as if you think about them too much they just frustrate.

quote:

  Forget all that Brainic tripe. Superman should team up with Flash Gordan and have some jolly adventures.


Good idea

< Message edited by sanchia -- 29/10/2006 10:13:28 PM >


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Post #: 100
RE: Future Superman Films - 29/10/2006 10:14:59 PM   
FoximusPrime

 

Posts: 407
Joined: 11/12/2005
Cheers. That explains a lot.

I agree with the thinking-too-much point, but why the glasses???

I guess his sight got damaged before he was found by the Kents and he just liked the look after he got his first pair.

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Post #: 101
RE: Future Superman Films - 30/10/2006 6:36:00 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
Well it's official. There will be a sequel. Huzzah.

Variety has confirmed that Bryan Singer has signed a deal with Warner Bros. Pictures to direct and produce a sequel to Superman Returns, with Legendary Pictures expected to co-finance.

The film is tentatively intended for release in summer 2009, although the studio stressed that there's not even a script or budget yet.

The sequel is apparently at the very beginning of the development process and, as with any other project, there are any number of factors that must be addressed before it is greenlit.

While Superman Returns wasn't the performer the studio had hoped for, it has earned more than $390 million worldwide and WB and Legendary say they will still turn a profit from the film.

The two companies are sure to insist that the sequel's production budget comes in under $200 million, adds the trade.

In terms of casting, Warner Bros. has an option on Superman Returns star Brandon Routh.



_____________________________

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Post #: 102
RE: Future Superman Films - 30/10/2006 8:54:09 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5191
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

It still does not explain how he could charge up to the degree he did when only flying above clouds for a few minutes as there would not be enough energy in the suns rays to charge him to that degree and also the fact that he had super powers when he had been away from the suns rays for 5 years yet had his powers as soon as he returned.


Well he was never really "away from the suns rays", simply a greater distance from them. And as he got closer to the Earth, he would have begun to be affected by the sun. He was still very weak when he landed however. He had the capsule thing to protect him landing from space anyway.

And there was clearly a sufficient amount of energy to charge him because, well, he was charged. This criticism doesn't make any sense to me.

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Post #: 103
RE: Future Superman Films - 31/10/2006 8:18:27 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18338
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

It still does not explain how he could charge up to the degree he did when only flying above clouds for a few minutes as there would not be enough energy in the suns rays to charge him to that degree and also the fact that he had super powers when he had been away from the suns rays for 5 years yet had his powers as soon as he returned.


Well he was never really "away from the suns rays", simply a greater distance from them. And as he got closer to the Earth, he would have begun to be affected by the sun. He was still very weak when he landed however. He had the capsule thing to protect him landing from space anyway.

And there was clearly a sufficient amount of energy to charge him because, well, he was charged. This criticism doesn't make any sense to me.



He was thousands if not millions of lightyears away from Earth and the yellow suns rays for a period of years which would have drained him surely.  Earlier arguments for how he could lift the Kryptonite island related to him supercharging himself by flying above the clouds.  There would not have been enough energy to have done that in the suns rays.  If there had been a scene showing him flying actually to th corona of the sun I could have believed it.

Anyway that is it I have given up on arguing the flaws as  those who love the film see it as flawless which it is not.  A decent film but definitely no where near a great film. 

I just hope there are improvements with the sequel and the superchild gets a drastically smaller role (how about sending him to boarding school so he doesn't appear at all) and Bosworth actually gets a handle on the Lois Lane role.

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Post #: 104
RE: Future Superman Films - 2/11/2006 9:39:31 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5191
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

It still does not explain how he could charge up to the degree he did when only flying above clouds for a few minutes as there would not be enough energy in the suns rays to charge him to that degree and also the fact that he had super powers when he had been away from the suns rays for 5 years yet had his powers as soon as he returned.


Well he was never really "away from the suns rays", simply a greater distance from them. And as he got closer to the Earth, he would have begun to be affected by the sun. He was still very weak when he landed however. He had the capsule thing to protect him landing from space anyway.

And there was clearly a sufficient amount of energy to charge him because, well, he was charged. This criticism doesn't make any sense to me.



He was thousands if not millions of lightyears away from Earth and the yellow suns rays for a period of years which would have drained him surely.  Earlier arguments for how he could lift the Kryptonite island related to him supercharging himself by flying above the clouds.


So he didn't have his powers when he flew to find Krypton then? So? He had that funky spaceship to get himself around in.

You could also follow the comic logic in that he is also affected by the earth itself and its vegetation etc. Who knows how long it takes him to recharge sufficiently - the film implies not long in both the instances you mention. Perhaps he can willfully open his pores to a massive degree...

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Post #: 105
RE: Future Superman Films - 2/11/2006 10:26:13 PM   
hawkeye10


Posts: 982
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Your sweet fanny
Here is a copy from my website as to where I think the sequel should go:

Where to take it from here: (CONTAINS SPOILERS)
If Warner are going to stick to their guns and make a direct sequel to this, I have a few suggestions. Storywise, I suggest Lex get his hands on that kid. The plot should be that the kid becomes ill, due to the mixture of human and Kryptonian DNA. He is growing old at an exponential rate; he is starting to die. Doctors can't cure him, but Lex steps forward with the suggestion of a cure. He knows the truth about the boy, and  during therapy starts to turn the boy against his father. WELCOME TO PROJECT DOOMSDAY.
 After he is cured, he discovers the boy to have all of Superman's powers, but none of his weaknesses.  His human DNA cancels out all weaknesses to Kryptonite, but during an altercation with his father, he discovers that due to his human roots, he isn't as powerful. Lex uses the boy to retrieve Zod from the pit he fell into in Superman II. He revives him using earths sun, which jump-starts his Kryptonian cells. With Zod, Project Doomsday is in full swing.  During his fight with Zod, Kal-El is killed. Filled with regret, the boy tries to banish Zod to the Phantom Zone, but gets trapped there himself. With Zod's help, Lex becomes President of USA, and Zod the ruler of the world. Zod is all too happy to help Lex, because like Dracula, he needs an Igor to protect him from anyone trying to get too  close with Kryptonite. Then Superman's body disappears. Enter The Batman. Does it sound good?

< Message edited by hawkeye10 -- 2/11/2006 10:52:07 PM >


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Post #: 106
RE: Future Superman Films - 3/11/2006 4:01:36 PM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
Hmmmm. I'm hoping for Brainiac myself. Zod's just dead IMO, and Doomsday should be saved for the future. We've already had a film setting up a world without Superman.

_____________________________

CG, stop motion, acting, animation, animatronics, whatever, it's 24 lies a second...

Critiquing words for dummies: Pretentious, overrated, sentimental, indulgent, populist.

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Post #: 107
RE: Future Superman Films - 3/11/2006 4:08:52 PM   
bozo


Posts: 2513
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: HM Prison Slade
i'm glad Singer will be directing the Superman sequel, although I think he should have stayed for the last X-Men film. He's one of the best directors working today. I hope that after he gets through the comic book phase he will get down to some serious crime saga business!

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Post #: 108
RE: Future Superman Films - 3/11/2006 5:46:16 PM   
hawkeye10


Posts: 982
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Your sweet fanny
Brainiac could feature. James Masters would be great from a fanboy point of view, but Jason Schwartsman would be better.

I still love the idea of Zod. He is the dark to Kal-el's light. He matches him in every department, with more brains than the Kansas farmboy( no offence to any Kansas farmboys).

If you read it again, you will notice that I didn't refer to the comic book's Doomsday. That is a character that belongs in the 90's. Doomsday, or Project Doomsday, refers to his son.

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Post #: 109
RE: Future Superman Films - 3/11/2006 6:39:00 PM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
Thing is, Batman's appearance is something too sudden: throwing two film universes together too soon. We need a special film for that.

Also, Doomsday is awesome: the character's backstory shows a severe hatred of life. Born a normal baby before multiple deaths to create a hardened lifeform. 

_____________________________

CG, stop motion, acting, animation, animatronics, whatever, it's 24 lies a second...

Critiquing words for dummies: Pretentious, overrated, sentimental, indulgent, populist.

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Post #: 110
RE: Future Superman Films - 3/11/2006 7:09:52 PM   
Philo Bedo


Posts: 150
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: The whole planet Houston?
Zod has been done; why rehash all that again.  There are any number of bad guys out there who could pose a serious (but ultimately futile) threat to Superman; so i say go with one of those and lets have a good ol' beat'em up from start to finish.

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Post #: 111
RE: Future Superman Films - 3/11/2006 8:22:40 PM   
ThirdCoen

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/12/2005
I wasn't implying it was too subtle for you notice it.  Perhaps a better way of expressing myself would have been to say it was too ineffective, but I still think it was Singer's intention.  YC can leap miles at a time but it was fairly obvious falling into the barn was the first time he'd flown.  He covers his face when he thinks he's about to land on the metal spikes, whether he believes they'll hurt him or not, a natural human and kryptonian reaction, I'm sure.
I think the main problem with the Superboy story is the inconsistencies.  Kryptonite didn't affect him, he can't summon his powers at will, et cetera.  The creative team of SR regularly stated they wanted Superman to be emotionally tested, and I suspect the kid will bite the bullet (not in the same way his dad is able, of course) in the next film.  That would p!ss Supes right off.
And I'm not a particulary big fan of comic book films, I only see the best ones.

(in reply to FoximusPrime)
Post #: 112
RE: Future Superman Films - 3/11/2006 9:27:45 PM   
bozo


Posts: 2513
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: HM Prison Slade
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdCoen

I wasn't implying it was too subtle for you notice it.  Perhaps a better way of expressing myself would have been to say it was too ineffective, but I still think it was Singer's intention.  YC can leap miles at a time but it was fairly obvious falling into the barn was the first time he'd flown.  He covers his face when he thinks he's about to land on the metal spikes, whether he believes they'll hurt him or not, a natural human and kryptonian reaction, I'm sure.
I think the main problem with the Superboy story is the inconsistencies.  Kryptonite didn't affect him, he can't summon his powers at will, et cetera.  The creative team of SR regularly stated they wanted Superman to be emotionally tested, and I suspect the kid will bite the bullet (not in the same way his dad is able, of course) in the next film.  That would p!ss Supes right off.
And I'm not a particulary big fan of comic book films, I only see the best ones.


Now that would be an extremely bold move... somewhat too bold for Hollywood, don't you think?

(in reply to ThirdCoen)
Post #: 113
RE: Future Superman Films - 4/11/2006 1:32:34 AM   
Mr Terrific


Posts: 1639
Joined: 15/7/2006
Nah, the kid won't die but he'll be in danger of course, kryptonite does'nt seem to effect him that much though. Question is, who is going to be the bad guy? I've read on a movie website that Lex Luthor will not be in this sequel, but D.C universe villian will  be instead. Hell, could be even Darksiad. Not too sure about Brainiac.

_____________________________

..."lost like tears in the rain....."

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Post #: 114
RE: Future Superman Films - 4/11/2006 9:35:12 AM   
bozo


Posts: 2513
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: HM Prison Slade
I hope Lex won't be in the sequel despite Spacey's brilliant performance. I'm a little tired of him. I think the franchise needs something more... epic and destructive.

(in reply to Mr Terrific)
Post #: 115
RE: Future Superman Films - 4/11/2006 12:14:46 PM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
I'd really like Luthor back: he has the knowledge of a Kryptonian child, and Brainiac, with his insane curiousity, would be a worthy co-manipulator.

Anyone read or heard of Richard Donner's stuff in Action Comics? Sounds similiar, even if it isn't Supes' son.

_____________________________

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(in reply to bozo)
Post #: 116
RE: Future Superman Films - 4/11/2006 1:52:36 PM   
BatFan


Posts: 2124
Joined: 27/7/2006
Yeah I read the first issue of the arc today. I wonder whether This will be a permanent thing with The son. Or they will get rid of him after Donner has left after his six issues, and make him be a clone or robot or something like that. I hope not.
I think DC are trying to make the comic world similar to their movie counterparts.

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(in reply to doctorolorinbats1975)
Post #: 117
RE: Future Superman Films - 4/11/2006 1:55:08 PM   
doctorolorinbats1975


Posts: 6787
Joined: 30/10/2005
From: Harrow
A lot of people tend to say that, but most comic book arcs are mapped out months before.

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(in reply to BatFan)
Post #: 118
RE: Future Superman Films - 4/11/2006 11:07:35 PM   
kumar


Posts: 5231
Joined: 2/10/2005
when i came out of the cinema after SR i thought the kid would die in the sequel, and im still counting on that to happen.

also, im putting my money on Brainiac as the villian. Or perhaps Metallo, but that sounds a bit random.

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(in reply to doctorolorinbats1975)
Post #: 119
RE: Future Superman Films - 5/11/2006 10:01:10 AM   
bozo


Posts: 2513
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: HM Prison Slade
quote:

ORIGINAL: kumar

when i came out of the cinema after SR i thought the kid would die in the sequel, and im still counting on that to happen.



If that happens, I'll poke my own eye out.
Again.

(in reply to kumar)
Post #: 120
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