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RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 28/10/2012 10:26:26 PM

Gazz

Posts: 874
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazz

I don't remember Fellaini having a Liverpool player hobble off injured mid game, nor do I remember him lunging in a potential ankle breaking challenge.

But I do remember seeing a potentially rib breaking kick to Allen's chest. Oh but that's OK as Allen didn't make a song and dance about it, he just got up and got on with it.

Osman raked down the back of Sterling's Achilles. But you wouldn't remember that surely....

You mean this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf5HCQ0wJQ0

Yeah, I can see how it was a foul, certainly. Possibly a yellow and at least a talking to. I don't see how it was potentially bone breaking in the same way Saurez's attempt on Distin was (posted earlier).

And unfortunately Mirallas was unable to shake off the earlier Saurez challenge. I imagine he had all the time in the world to make a song about it as he sat injured throughout the next 45 minutes.

< Message edited by Gazz -- 28/10/2012 10:27:40 PM >

(in reply to The Lensman)

Post #: 14671

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 28/10/2012 10:27:46 PM

Olaf

Posts: 23364
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41�N 93�W

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

Pot kettle black.

We haven't denied or argued anything about what you have said have we? What we are saying is, if you wanna bitch and moan about Suarez, we have the right to say the same about your boys.....

If you want to concentrate on just our players carry on by all means, but its not gonna get anywhere as its vastly becoming very old news to pick on Suarez.

Wouldn't this imply that he's not cheating/diving anymore?

Was that evident today? No, the only dive I saw came from Everton's captain who owned up... but when the man who before the match spoke about it.... MORE than happy to speak about Suarez and the diving.... when he was asked about it after today - nothing.

What a load of bollocks.

But there's two GIFs above depicting fairly clear-cut instances of Suarez cheating in today's game. Not diving admittedly, but still the sort of thing that cynical players do, thus earning a reputation for being cynical. He also dived in the Stoke game last week, so it's not like he's cut it out or anything (I'm aware of the stamp in that game as well, as it happens). Anyone who criticises the English media's depiction of Suarez as a cheat is ignoring the fact that he wouldn't have a reputation if he didn't cheat in the first place.

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Post #: 14672

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 7:36:06 AM

The Lensman

Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazz

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazz

I don't remember Fellaini having a Liverpool player hobble off injured mid game, nor do I remember him lunging in a potential ankle breaking challenge.

But I do remember seeing a potentially rib breaking kick to Allen's chest. Oh but that's OK as Allen didn't make a song and dance about it, he just got up and got on with it.

Osman raked down the back of Sterling's Achilles. But you wouldn't remember that surely....

You mean this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf5HCQ0wJQ0

Yeah, I can see how it was a foul, certainly. Possibly a yellow and at least a talking to. I don't see how it was potentially bone breaking in the same way Saurez's attempt on Distin was (posted earlier).

And unfortunately Mirallas was unable to shake off the earlier Saurez challenge. I imagine he had all the time in the world to make a song about it as he sat injured throughout the next 45 minutes.

So to you a dangerous off the ball incident only merits at least a talking to?

I not continuing this debate, as your blue tinted glasses are clearly obstructing a balanced argument.

(in reply to Gazz)

Post #: 14673

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 7:38:44 AM

The Lensman

Posts: 1731
Joined: 15/3/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

Pot kettle black.

We haven't denied or argued anything about what you have said have we? What we are saying is, if you wanna bitch and moan about Suarez, we have the right to say the same about your boys.....

If you want to concentrate on just our players carry on by all means, but its not gonna get anywhere as its vastly becoming very old news to pick on Suarez.

Wouldn't this imply that he's not cheating/diving anymore?

Was that evident today? No, the only dive I saw came from Everton's captain who owned up... but when the man who before the match spoke about it.... MORE than happy to speak about Suarez and the diving.... when he was asked about it after today - nothing.

What a load of bollocks.

But there's two GIFs above depicting fairly clear-cut instances of Suarez cheating in today's game. Not diving admittedly, but still the sort of thing that cynical players do, thus earning a reputation for being cynical. He also dived in the Stoke game last week, so it's not like he's cut it out or anything (I'm aware of the stamp in that game as well, as it happens). Anyone who criticises the English media's depiction of Suarez as a cheat is ignoring the fact that he wouldn't have a reputation if he didn't cheat in the first place.

Cheating, or committing a forwards tackle..... if you think he is...

Jagielka's foul on Sterling could be highlighted
Mirallas hack down in the match is another.

(in reply to Olaf)

Post #: 14674

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 9:12:04 AM

Rinc

Posts: 12518
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt

Going back to your first post Gazz you essentially said I can't complain about Fellaini because I hadn't said anything about Suarez. That's obviously a load of bollocks. Firstly because I had said in my post that both Liverpool and Everton got away with not getting certain yellows. And secondly because every complaint about an opposition player doesn't have to come with a proviso that I criticise or if my own. Your post came across as 'Mummy I shouldn't be told off for name calling. The other boy called me loads of names!'

You can say Suarez's tackles were more dangerous (this isn't a pudding contest), but I agree with Lensman in that Fellaini's could've broken some ribs. Have you ever seen someone breaking a rib on the football pitch? It doesn't take much and an off the ball kick to the ribs by a big guy like Fellaini could easily do it. Saying it was possibly a yellow and he deserved a talking to us laughable.

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Post #: 14675

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 9:42:19 AM

Gazz

Posts: 874
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazz

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Lensman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazz

I don't remember Fellaini having a Liverpool player hobble off injured mid game, nor do I remember him lunging in a potential ankle breaking challenge.

But I do remember seeing a potentially rib breaking kick to Allen's chest. Oh but that's OK as Allen didn't make a song and dance about it, he just got up and got on with it.

Osman raked down the back of Sterling's Achilles. But you wouldn't remember that surely....

You mean this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf5HCQ0wJQ0

Yeah, I can see how it was a foul, certainly. Possibly a yellow and at least a talking to. I don't see how it was potentially bone breaking in the same way Saurez's attempt on Distin was (posted earlier).

And unfortunately Mirallas was unable to shake off the earlier Saurez challenge. I imagine he had all the time in the world to make a song about it as he sat injured throughout the next 45 minutes.

So to you a dangerous off the ball incident only merits at least a talking to?

At least a talking to, NOT only a talking to. I even acknowledged it as a possible yellow. Would have no qualms if he was shown a card with that.

quote:

I not continuing this debate,

Perhaps it's best if you don't.

< Message edited by Gazz -- 29/10/2012 9:55:01 AM >

(in reply to The Lensman)

Post #: 14676

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 9:44:29 AM

emogeek

Posts: 21724
Joined: 15/4/2006
From: Satan's Trampoline

Anybody remember when this used to be the "friendly derby"?

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Post #: 14677

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 9:51:18 AM

Gazz

Posts: 874
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc

Going back to your first post Gazz you essentially said I can't complain about Fellaini because I hadn't said anything about Suarez. That's obviously a load of bollocks. Firstly because I had said in my post that both Liverpool and Everton got away with not getting certain yellows. And secondly because every complaint about an opposition player doesn't have to come with a proviso that I criticise or if my own. Your post came across as 'Mummy I shouldn't be told off for name calling. The other boy called me loads of names!'

I was simply pointing out the hypocrisy in complaining what one of our players got away with without an acknowledgment of the shite your own pulled, injuring one of our key players in the game without a card. Again, it would be if I were to complain about Liverpool diving without acknowledging Neville's display yesterday. I imagine you'd call me out on it all the same, just as Lensman did with Moyes and his pre game press talk. I've not made any excuse for Fellaini, have acknowledged the challenge highlighted (as a possible yellow, which it is every day of the week) and even provided a video of it (above). This is would be more like Mummy watching her two kids swear but only chastising one of them. Terrible parenting.

< Message edited by Gazz -- 29/10/2012 9:53:56 AM >

(in reply to Rinc)

Post #: 14678

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 11:58:04 AM

Rinc

Posts: 12518
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt

There was no hypocrisy on my part as I pointed out both Liverpool and Everton should have received yellows they didn't and they both received yellows they shouldn't have. I really wouldn't have been surprised if Fellaini and Suarez had been sent off for those challenges. Plenty of others have for the same type.

Anyway let's remember the important thing to come out of this game. My gentlemans bets with two friends over who would win are null and void given the draw. So now I don't owe a pint to each of them!

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Post #: 14679

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 12:03:25 PM

Gazz

Posts: 874
Joined: 30/9/2005

Fair does.

quote:

Anyway let's remember the important thing to come out of this game. My gentlemans bets with two friends over who would win are null and void given the draw. So now I don't owe a pint to each of them!

Every cloud. I don't think I was in any state to make winning Everton bets pre-game. Regardless of form we just don't perform well in derby games as evident from the on going record.

(in reply to Rinc)

Post #: 14680

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 29/10/2012 5:02:50 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4183
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

I think Moyes deserves a pat on the back for cleverly winding up the oposition's best player before the match. Worked a treat...

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Post #: 14681

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 30/10/2012 2:13:53 PM

Brooksy84

Posts: 389
Joined: 25/1/2010

I took absolutely nothing positive from the game on Sunday; very frustrating to watch. We bottled a 2-0 lead; defended abysmally for both goals; our final ball from the midfield was consistantly poor. Individual errors yet again costing us points - I will never in a million years understand what Brad Jones was doing punching the ball back to the edge of the box like that. We were visibly scared of Everton as soon as they started to come at us. In fact the only good thing about that match was the comedy value of watching Phil Neville get booked for diving.
I'm prepared to be patient, I do have faith in Rodgers, and we have been playing some attractive football so far this season, but every positive step seems to be followed by two backwards. 2 points gained against Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Everton is not good.

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Post #: 14682

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 30/10/2012 4:14:21 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4183
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

I took absolutely nothing positive from the game on Sunday; very frustrating to watch. We bottled a 2-0 lead; defended abysmally for both goals; our final ball from the midfield was consistantly poor. Individual errors yet again costing us points - I will never in a million years understand what Brad Jones was doing punching the ball back to the edge of the box like that. We were visibly scared of Everton as soon as they started to come at us. In fact the only good thing about that match was the comedy value of watching Phil Neville get booked for diving.
I'm prepared to be patient, I do have faith in Rodgers, and we have been playing some attractive football so far this season, but every positive step seems to be followed by two backwards. 2 points gained against Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Everton is not good.

How many points did you expect to get against the Champions and three of the best sides in the country?

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Post #: 14683

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 30/10/2012 4:38:03 PM

Professor Moriarty

Posts: 8582
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

I took absolutely nothing positive from the game on Sunday; very frustrating to watch. We bottled a 2-0 lead; defended abysmally for both goals; our final ball from the midfield was consistantly poor. Individual errors yet again costing us points - I will never in a million years understand what Brad Jones was doing punching the ball back to the edge of the box like that. We were visibly scared of Everton as soon as they started to come at us. In fact the only good thing about that match was the comedy value of watching Phil Neville get booked for diving.
I'm prepared to be patient, I do have faith in Rodgers, and we have been playing some attractive football so far this season, but every positive step seems to be followed by two backwards. 2 points gained against Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal and Everton is not good.

How many points did you expect to get against the Champions and three of the best sides in the country?

If I'm right, 7 points from the corresponding fixtures last season. Two cup runs and 52 points in the league last season.

I'm not sure any targets make sense this season. I think a general feel that the team is playing well and adopting to Rodgers management will suffice. But I think next season it will be valid to start looking at performances against the top 4-5 teams and to expect some form of progression (60+ points?).

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Post #: 14684

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 30/10/2012 7:41:26 PM

Brooksy84

Posts: 389
Joined: 25/1/2010

It would be less of an issue if we were picking up solid wins against the mid to lower league teams, but that isn't happening. For the last couple of years we've put in some good results against the big sides, we always seem to raise our game, but this time around we've been much the better team (Arsenal accepted) but dropped points due to silly errors.
As I said in my last post, I'm more than prepared to accept that transition will take time, but it's hard to swallow when for 90% of the season so far we've been better than our opponents but come away having been beaten or with a disappointing point.

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Post #: 14685

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 31/10/2012 6:26:19 AM

horribleives

Posts: 4183
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

Well, you always turn us over at Anfield so sunday's game should get you back on track.

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Post #: 14686

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 31/10/2012 1:19:57 PM

gazpop

Posts: 2465
Joined: 26/6/2010
From: 666 Godwin Street, Naziland

I'd settle for another 4-3 win. Where's big Stan?
Brooksy has hit the nail on the head. Let's see how we play this weekend....

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Post #: 14687

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 31/10/2012 10:24:10 PM

Professor Moriarty

Posts: 8582
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

Interesting result as the holders go out. Swansea have been on the ropes recently, so expected even an understrength Liverpool to take this win.

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Post #: 14688

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 7:38:42 AM

jonson

Posts: 8073
Joined: 30/9/2005

But, but, but, to be fair, Brendan Rogers is building a legacy etc etc etc
Yeah, so was Keane and Blackburn

Sorry, I have 3 lads at work who are typical Liverpool supporters, I'm just waiting for them to come in this morning.
22 minutes and counting.......

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Post #: 14689

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 9:16:45 AM

Professor Moriarty

Posts: 8582
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

Other than Europe, there is every chance that in measurable terms Liverpool could do worse this season than last, i.e.:
- league position
- league points
- cup runs

But I think you are right, it doesn't really matter as it is about next season and the season after for the club. I don't see any undue pressure coming on Rodgers from the owners or most of the fan base.

I just hope that they start to get some results as I'm starting to find Rodgers a bit of a whiner. I don't really see how you can complain about having a thin squad when you are home against Swansea and you play Cole, Gerrard, Allen, Henderson, Downing & Suarez.

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Post #: 14690

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 9:54:36 AM

Rinc

Posts: 12518
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt

I think Rodgers is moaning about the thin squad because he doesn't rate about half of them.

Disappointing to lost last night because it would've been a nice confidence booster. Don't care about the competition really, I always find myself saying 'It would be nice to win in it/win the competition' as in 'Oh isn't that nice, that cat and dog are friends'. It doesn't particularly matter and it isn't the same as the PL or CL qualification.

As for our performance this season, I'm well prepared for us to do worse than last season and it wouldn't really bother me. As long as things are looking good for the future and we've got a plan. Unlike Hodgson and Dalglish it actually feels like something is developing at the club, a long term philosophy and a way to make us a sustainable, successful club.

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Post #: 14691

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 10:09:33 AM

Nezzley

Posts: 632
Joined: 19/1/2006

We have to remember that Rodgers didn't exactly inherit a top four squad, they finished 8th last season (and ended it very poorly) and he spent most of the summer getting rid of players (kuyt, maxi, adam, bellamy, carroll, spearing) and brought in several inexperienced but very talented young players to replace them. So it's not unreasonable for fans to show a little faith in him and not immediately call for his head after a bad result.

I'd be expecting an improvement over last years position or points tally as our home form was (and still is) quite abysmal. I see Joe Cole's being publicly slated by Rodgers, not sure where he fits into this side as there's currently better options out wide and in midfield.

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Post #: 14692

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 10:12:23 AM

Professor Moriarty

Posts: 8582
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc

I think Rodgers is moaning about the thin squad because he doesn't rate about half of them.

Ah right. That makes sense. Poor Joe Cole. He came back from France to play for Rodgers and he's subbed off at half time.

The challenge for Rodgers is how he is going to move on some of these players. Let's say right now that senior players he'd happily live without are:
Reina
Enrique
Cole
Downing
Henderson
Carroll

I'd be surprised if any of those were on less than 50K pw. So that's maybe 15M over the year, or let's say at least 10M (and it could be more). Carroll may well go to WHU and its not beyond the realm of possibility that someone will take Reina, but the others I'd say would all be going down a step to their next club (at least in terms of the club's brand and money). And that's before you even factor in what will be lost on the transfers.

I'd expect that the agent's of younger players wont have missed they are starting more games and establishing themselves and will be knocking on the contract renegotiation door soon.

So, I see what Rodgers is saying, but I'd be very surprised if he finds it easy to build up that squad in the next year unless he can pull off some really good bargain hunting.

< Message edited by Professor Moriarty -- 1/11/2012 10:27:07 AM >

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Post #: 14693

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 10:12:56 AM

Rinc

Posts: 12518
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt

I didn't see the game and haven't seen Rodgers' comments. But what is he expecting? Cole has barely played and can't be expected to suddenly play incredible football.

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Post #: 14694

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 10:24:04 AM

Professor Moriarty

Posts: 8582
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nezzley

We have to remember that Rodgers didn't exactly inherit a top four squad, they finished 8th last season (and ended it very poorly) and he spent most of the summer getting rid of players (kuyt, maxi, adam, bellamy, carroll, spearing) and brought in several inexperienced but very talented young players to replace them. So it's not unreasonable for fans to show a little faith in him and not immediately call for his head after a bad result.

I'd be expecting an improvement over last years position or points tally as our home form was (and still is) quite abysmal. I see Joe Cole's being publicly slated by Rodgers, not sure where he fits into this side as there's currently better options out wide and in midfield.

I see your point on the end of last season I don't think you won a game in Feb and only 4 games between the end of Jan and end of the season.

But ,personally I think your target may be a little optimistic. Purely in terms of points, I think you were 8 points better off at this time last season and with such a young team I'd expect them to tire at the end of the season. Also, we can expect some type of strengthening up front, but basically if Suarez loses form, picks up a red and misses matches or gets injured its hard to see where goals will come from.

In terms of improving the position. I don't see Chelsea, City, Utd, Arsenal or Spurs falling behind Liverpool. Which means only 1 more team you could fall behind to improve on 8th. With Liverpool in transition I'd consider several teams to be capable of that right now.

I'm not saying Liverpool will be relegated (or even anywhere near those spots). Or that Rodgers isn't setting down the foundations for improvements. But I'd not be surprised to see Liverpool finish in the bottom half of the table with less than 50 points this season.

< Message edited by Professor Moriarty -- 1/11/2012 10:54:15 AM >

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Post #: 14695

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 10:37:51 AM

Nezzley

Posts: 632
Joined: 19/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc

I didn't see the game and haven't seen Rodgers' comments. But what is he expecting? Cole has barely played and can't be expected to suddenly play incredible football.

Might be trying to get a reaction out of him a la Downing, we clearly need more goals in the team but it's hard to see Joe Cole becoming a regular goal scorer or adding much more to the side. There's plenty of creativity and dribbling ability with Suarez, the wingers we have and the options in midfield.

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Post #: 14696

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 11:39:51 AM

Brooksy84

Posts: 389
Joined: 25/1/2010

Whenever I'm at work when a game is on, as with last night, I rely on the sky sports app to get updates. As I watch and wait for the score to load up, I always think to myself: "well we'll be losing, of COURSE we'll be losing", in some childish attempt at cosmic reverse psychology. And EVERY fucking time, we're losing. And normally lose, or manage to claw back a draw.
The competition as a whole isn't the be all and end all of course, but every home game is becoming such a psychological issue at the moment and we seem to have a mental block stopping us from getting the win. For that reason alone a win last night would have been important just to put some confidence back in the team. But hey ho, ahead to the weekend, against a team with two on form strikers against our dodgy defence....shit.

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Post #: 14697

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 1/11/2012 12:08:00 PM

Frank Castle

Posts: 2671
Joined: 14/10/2005
From: Parts Unknown

time to let gerrard go

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Post #: 14698

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 2/11/2012 2:27:05 PM

Rinc

Posts: 12518
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: A park bench, with a newspaper quilt

What does everyone think of Walcott or Ba?

Either of them would be an improvement on nothing! I've never been a big fan of Walcott although he'd hopefully be better through the middle because he's far too inconsistent out wide. Not sure about paying him loads of money though. I'd love Ba but I worry he'll just break down at some point and we'll be backt to square one.

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Post #: 14699

RE: Liverpool - 2005/06 - 2/11/2012 3:40:19 PM

Professor Moriarty

Posts: 8582
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

I think my first question would be whether either player would join Liverpool.

I still find Walcott wildly exciting, even if he does draw my ire when he fluffs another cross or runs down a dead end. He's not started many games this season and he wants to play through the middle. So a move to Liverpool would be an improvement on his current status. But, Wenger has been making noises that if they can sort the new contract by X-mas he'd get both of these.

Ba's buy-out clause every transfer window is getting on my tits. Will it never go away?

I know his nose was out of joint last season when Cisse came and he got pushed wide, but he seems happier now. So it'd just be for the cash if he moved imo as it feels a sideways move otherwise.

I think they will both improve Liverpool. But I'm not sure there's a strong case for either of them to join. I think the reason these two are mentioned is that they are financially capped moves, I suspect that any team who isn't trying to get rid of a player will see Liverpool's desperation coming a mile off in Jan and make them pay through the nose if they can.

(in reply to Rinc)

Post #: 14700