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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!!

 
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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 12:27:44 AM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
I reckon MoS is by far the best Superman film yet. I'd still only rate it about 3/5 at a push though.

_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 28201
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 12:30:35 AM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2336
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

I really dont understand these criticisms.The final third of Man Of Steel was the best superhero action id seen since, well, The Avengers, instead in this case you really felt there was a lot at stake when Superman was fighting Zods army.


The action in the final fight was repetitive and boring and despite the destruction I personally didn't feel that there were any stakes at all. A couple of characters we had met once before were in danger, that's about it. We are supposed to care about Perry White because he has the same name as a comic character and because he is played by Fishburne, we are given no other reason to give a shit. And so many people perish in the destruction but nobody, especially not Super....ummm....whoever, cares so why should we? I'm glad you enjoyed the film, and you are not the only one but it just didn't sit right with me. This was not Superman and if I enjoyed the film on its own terms, that wouldn't have bothered me but I found most of it dull, sadly.


My problem with it was the whole thing that Supes kept the fight in the city, like without the slightest self-awareness that he was causing the death of thousands.


Ok you walked into this one.

First of all, Zod started the fight so its not like Supes had a choice of location! What was he supposed to say '' Excuse me Zod, do you mind if we fight each other at a more convenient place? Like say the moon? No? Ok bring it on then! ''.

During the final fight , Supes tosses Zod into space in an effort obviously to take the fight elsewhere so innocents cant be hurt.However after crashing into that satellite, Zod takes the fight straight back down to earth.



< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 11/11/2013 12:39:50 AM >


_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 28202
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 12:36:55 AM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2336
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

I really dont understand these criticisms.The final third of Man Of Steel was the best superhero action id seen since, well, The Avengers, instead in this case you really felt there was a lot at stake when Superman was fighting Zods army.


The action in the final fight was repetitive and boring and despite the destruction I personally didn't feel that there were any stakes at all. A couple of characters we had met once before were in danger, that's about it. We are supposed to care about Perry White because he has the same name as a comic character and because he is played by Fishburne, we are given no other reason to give a shit. And so many people perish in the destruction but nobody, especially not Super....ummm....whoever, cares so why should we? I'm glad you enjoyed the film, and you are not the only one but it just didn't sit right with me. This was not Superman and if I enjoyed the film on its own terms, that wouldn't have bothered me but I found most of it dull, sadly.


My problem with it was the whole thing that Supes kept the fight in the city, like without the slightest self-awareness that he was causing the death of thousands.


Yes, that too. Superman is a dick in this movie, he basically says ' I can kill every human on this planet and there is nothing anyone can do to stop me but I choose not to'. What kind of hero/protector is that? And don't give me this 'anti-hero' shit, because that is not Superman, he's a boy scout, it is the way the Kents brought him up. Another thing that annoys me is the complete reluctance on the part of the film-makers to even call him Superman as if they know they are not actually making a real Superman movie. They even joke about the name to the point of ridicule.

I will add, that I don't read the comics so this is not a Superman 'fanboy' talking.


Superman in this film...

Saves a ton of guys from being killed on a burning oil rig.

As a kid, saves a bunch of school kids from drowning.

Saves Lois Lanes life at least three times.

Gives himself up to Zod in the hope that all of humanity will be spared their lives.

Destroys Zods world engine thereby saving humanity.

Stops Zod from cutting a bunch of innocent bystanders in half ( and a whole lot more since Zod said he would keep on killing and killing ).

Yeah what a dick Superman was in this film!


If any superhero acted like a dick recently it was Thor in The Avengers.During his fight with Iron Man, Captain America shows up and tells him to stop, Thor then goes crazy attacking Cap WITH FULL FORCE with his hammer! Now Caps shield was able to stop it but there was no way he coiuld have known that, it seems that Thor was willing to kill a mere mortal right then and there!

< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 11/11/2013 12:42:55 AM >


_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 28203
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 1:09:03 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

I really dont understand these criticisms.The final third of Man Of Steel was the best superhero action id seen since, well, The Avengers, instead in this case you really felt there was a lot at stake when Superman was fighting Zods army.


The action in the final fight was repetitive and boring and despite the destruction I personally didn't feel that there were any stakes at all. A couple of characters we had met once before were in danger, that's about it. We are supposed to care about Perry White because he has the same name as a comic character and because he is played by Fishburne, we are given no other reason to give a shit. And so many people perish in the destruction but nobody, especially not Super....ummm....whoever, cares so why should we? I'm glad you enjoyed the film, and you are not the only one but it just didn't sit right with me. This was not Superman and if I enjoyed the film on its own terms, that wouldn't have bothered me but I found most of it dull, sadly.


My problem with it was the whole thing that Supes kept the fight in the city, like without the slightest self-awareness that he was causing the death of thousands.


Ok you walked into this one.

First of all, Zod started the fight so its not like Supes had a choice of location! What was he supposed to say '' Excuse me Zod, do you mind if we fight each other at a more convenient place? Like say the moon? No? Ok bring it on then! ''.

During the final fight , Supes tosses Zod into space in an effort obviously to take the fight elsewhere so innocents cant be hurt.However after crashing into that satellite, Zod takes the fight straight back down to earth.




A- try and fucking take him out of the city and an area which isn't full of people, like you know, how he did before? Secondly, Supes shot him into space? The scene was edited much too fast (DAMN IT SNYDER) and it looked like Zod punched him into space and then they continued fighting back into the city, not Supes sent Zod into space.

EDIT: Rechecked the clip as it is on youtube, Zod DEFINITELY pushes Supes into space and the satellite, not Super tosses Zod.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyPGlMXUwVg

< Message edited by Deviation -- 11/11/2013 1:11:41 AM >


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28204
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 1:14:28 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Christ, Zod is basically chasing Supes everywhere, and yet he stayed in the city.

EDIT: Also Thor was meant to be a dick in the series, him becoming something less dickish is plot development.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 11/11/2013 1:29:09 AM >


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 28205
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 2:27:52 AM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2336
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

I really dont understand these criticisms.The final third of Man Of Steel was the best superhero action id seen since, well, The Avengers, instead in this case you really felt there was a lot at stake when Superman was fighting Zods army.


The action in the final fight was repetitive and boring and despite the destruction I personally didn't feel that there were any stakes at all. A couple of characters we had met once before were in danger, that's about it. We are supposed to care about Perry White because he has the same name as a comic character and because he is played by Fishburne, we are given no other reason to give a shit. And so many people perish in the destruction but nobody, especially not Super....ummm....whoever, cares so why should we? I'm glad you enjoyed the film, and you are not the only one but it just didn't sit right with me. This was not Superman and if I enjoyed the film on its own terms, that wouldn't have bothered me but I found most of it dull, sadly.


My problem with it was the whole thing that Supes kept the fight in the city, like without the slightest self-awareness that he was causing the death of thousands.


Ok you walked into this one.

First of all, Zod started the fight so its not like Supes had a choice of location! What was he supposed to say '' Excuse me Zod, do you mind if we fight each other at a more convenient place? Like say the moon? No? Ok bring it on then! ''.

During the final fight , Supes tosses Zod into space in an effort obviously to take the fight elsewhere so innocents cant be hurt.However after crashing into that satellite, Zod takes the fight straight back down to earth.




A- try and fucking take him out of the city and an area which isn't full of people, like you know, how he did before? Secondly, Supes shot him into space? The scene was edited much too fast (DAMN IT SNYDER) and it looked like Zod punched him into space and then they continued fighting back into the city, not Supes sent Zod into space.

EDIT: Rechecked the clip as it is on youtube, Zod DEFINITELY pushes Supes into space and the satellite, not Super tosses Zod.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyPGlMXUwVg


Just checked and its definetly Zod who is punched into the satellite.Both of them are in space at this point and when Supes charges at Zod, the villain smashes Supes back down to earth.As i said before, when the guy was attacking him, its not like Zod was going to take the fight anywhere else or give Supes the chance.

Look, obviously you dont like the film and are rather obsessed with this so are not likely to agree but Supes saved an awful lot of people from dying which makes him a hero.If you cant see that well then thats your problem.

And that fight beat anything from the Marvel films..in my opinion of course.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 28206
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 2:45:33 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Yeah what a dick Superman was in this film!


No, he certainly is a dick. His whole 'I could destroy you all if I wanted to' attitude is dick-like behaviour. If he changes in the second film, it is understandable as set-up but as it stands, Sups is kind of a tool. Then again, Pa Kent kind of was too, so.......


quote:

If any superhero acted like a dick recently it was Thor in The Avengers.During his fight with Iron Man, Captain America shows up and tells him to stop, Thor then goes crazy attacking Cap WITH FULL FORCE with his hammer! Now Caps shield was able to stop it but there was no way he coiuld have known that, it seems that Thor was willing to kill a mere mortal right then and there!


And if I was talking about Thor, that would have been an excellent point.

(you kind of take it personally when someone says something against a film you love, don't you? I don't hate the film, just had many problems with it like you did with Iron Man 3 and I also did with a few other films this year, yet the world still turns ).


_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28207
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 2:58:15 AM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2336
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Yeah what a dick Superman was in this film!


No, he certainly is a dick. His whole 'I could destroy you all if I wanted to' attitude is dick-like behaviour. If he changes in the second film, it is understandable as set-up but as it stands, Sups is kind of a tool. Then again, Pa Kent kind of was too, so.......


quote:

If any superhero acted like a dick recently it was Thor in The Avengers.During his fight with Iron Man, Captain America shows up and tells him to stop, Thor then goes crazy attacking Cap WITH FULL FORCE with his hammer! Now Caps shield was able to stop it but there was no way he coiuld have known that, it seems that Thor was willing to kill a mere mortal right then and there!


And if I was talking about Thor, that would have been an excellent point.

(you kind of take it personally when someone says something against a film you love, don't you? I don't hate the film, just had many problems with it like you did with Iron Man 3 and I also did with a few other films this year, yet the world still turns ).



He says that to make it clear to the military that he is not a threat which they see him as.This culminates in the scene during after the battle in smallville after Superman saves soldiers and one of them says '' This man is not our enemy ''.

Again you seem to have no response to the FACT that Superman constantly saves human lifes throughout the film and still rather childishly call him a '' dick ''.Please explain how Superman saving human life makes him a ''dick ''.You cant? Thought so.

I dont take it personally at all, we all like different things, its just so laughable that you clearly did not watch the film and cannot admit you are wrong.But hey, a troll has to troll eh?

< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 11/11/2013 2:59:25 AM >


_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 28208
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 8:15:56 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8205
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Just checked and its definetly Zod who is punched into the satellite.Both of them are in space at this point and when Supes charges at Zod, the villain smashes Supes back down to earth.As i said before, when the guy was attacking him, its not like Zod was going to take the fight anywhere else or give Supes the chance.

Look, obviously you dont like the film and are rather obsessed with this so are not likely to agree but Supes saved an awful lot of people from dying which makes him a hero.If you cant see that well then thats your problem.

And that fight beat anything from the Marvel films..in my opinion of course.


Isn't that the key part, rather than who is punched into the satellite? Zod has taken Superman into space, not the other way around. It is disingenuous to claim that the scene is proof of Superman intending to take the fight away from the city to save people. At no point does he attempt to do so.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28209
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 8:29:50 AM   
sanchia


Posts: 18127
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze




What was wrong with the presentation of Jonathan Kent? He brought up Clark to be a decent human being and protected him like any good father should.He also taught him to control his emotions and not lash out at bulies that Clark could easily seriously hurt or even kill.I beleive some have misinterpreted the characters dialogue after Clark saves a bus full of children that he should have let them die.That is not what he meant at all, its just that he knew Clark was here for a reason and that it was so important to the future of mankind that he had to be very careful of exposing what he really was to the world before it was time.Jonathan Kent beleived in this so much that he was willing to sacrifice himself as he does later in the film rather than have Clark expose his identity.



He brought up Clark to hide and to allow others to die if that meant that he kept his secret. What is there to misinterpret when he asked if he should have let them die he responded "maybe you should have"? That is not an ambiguous statement in any way shape or form and nothing which happens in the film later suggests that he did not believe that he meant anything else by it to make it possible to misinterpret what he said (other than a throw away comment regarding "he knew you would do great things" after Superman has become Superman whereby it had no influence on his decision). When his alien father is the one showing Superman what is the best of humanity rather than the human father then something has gone wrong as Jonathan Kent is supposed to represent the father figure who taught Superman how to be the best of us not to hide and let others die rather than risk himself. That is what is wrong with the presentation of Jonathan Kent, he is shown to say that Superman should hide no matter what even at the cost of lives and never allow the public to know he exists whilst Jor El is the one stating he needs to show humanity what he is capable of and to protect them.



Absolute bullshit.

For one thing that is not what he said! When asked whether he should have let them die, Jonathan says '' maybe '' and the way Costner delivers that line is that he is not entirely certain what to say to that.He brought up Clark pretty much the same way that the Jonathan Kent of the original '78 film did, but since that film was more light hearted and kiddie oriented ( though still great of course ) it didnt really get into what would really happen bringing up a kid like that.In both Superman The Movie and Man Of Steel, Clark is taught not to use his powers in the open as his adopted parents are afraid he will be taken away by god knows who.

In Man Of Steel Jonathan Kent obviously brings up Clark to be a good and moral person unlike someone like say, Lex Luthor.Can you imagine if someone like HIM had found Clark first? almost certainly he would have grown up to be an entirely unscruplous person and would have certainly been used by Luthor as a weapon for his own gain.

Of course Jonathan is glad that the children on the bus were saved, hes just worried about Clarks safety and him being exposed to the world about what he really is.He obviously taught Clark not to lash out at bullies as we see in the flashback to when hes pushed to the ground by some older kid.


So he did say maybe the children should have been left to die. Hence where is the ambiguity that the secret is more important than others lives. There are also many moments when Clark appears to show innate morality which Jonathan Kent then says something opposing it. He is stating that the secret is greater than the reward for saving the children, just look at his speech regarding what would happen if he ever exposed himself as an alien to the world and the uproar that would cause. He is even willing to kill himself to protect the secret and how is that in any way shape or form not saying that hiding who he is is more important than human life even his own? Hence it is not

quote:

Absolute bullshit.



You appear to being rather selective in what happened.

Also to me it appears Zod takes Superman into space does this make him the hero?

Personally I don't hate the film and it has some great moments. The Oil Rig rescue in particular is stand out and some of the moments when he is travelling the world also are very good. That does not stop the flaws being there.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 11/11/2013 8:38:31 AM >


_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28210
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 10:09:30 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Cool Breeze's definition of troll = someone who has the temerity to disagree with him, even if it's done in a civil manner.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 28211
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 10:25:23 AM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 8869
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Cool Breeze's definition of troll = someone who has the temerity to disagree with him, even if it's done in a civil manner.


CB calling someone a troll has set a new bar for irony on these forums!

_____________________________

Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 28212
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 10:51:49 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8205
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia
Personally I don't hate the film and it has some great moments. The Oil Rig rescue in particular is stand out and some of the moments when he is travelling the world also are very good. That does not stop the flaws being there.


I agree with Harry Tuttle in that I probably think it's the best of the Superman films out there. And I actually quite liked the fact that Superman wasn't a complete goody-two-shoes by default and had a bit of an edge about him. The always-does-right boy scout stuff is too earnest, limiting and (dare I say it) unrealistic for me. Having said that, the trashing of Metropolis in the thousands-dead throwdown was a bit too much in that direction. It has too many similarities to Optimus Prime's 'plan' to teach humanity a lesson by allowing Chicago to be destroyed in TF3 for my liking. At least in Donner's films the safety of the people trumps everything else viz. Superman 'fleeing' from Zod in order to stop people being harmed, despite the fact they all think he's abandoned them.

(in reply to sanchia)
Post #: 28213
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 1:24:03 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14545
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Yeah what a dick Superman was in this film!


No, he certainly is a dick. His whole 'I could destroy you all if I wanted to' attitude is dick-like behaviour. If he changes in the second film, it is understandable as set-up but as it stands, Sups is kind of a tool. Then again, Pa Kent kind of was too, so.......


quote:

If any superhero acted like a dick recently it was Thor in The Avengers.During his fight with Iron Man, Captain America shows up and tells him to stop, Thor then goes crazy attacking Cap WITH FULL FORCE with his hammer! Now Caps shield was able to stop it but there was no way he coiuld have known that, it seems that Thor was willing to kill a mere mortal right then and there!


And if I was talking about Thor, that would have been an excellent point.

(you kind of take it personally when someone says something against a film you love, don't you? I don't hate the film, just had many problems with it like you did with Iron Man 3 and I also did with a few other films this year, yet the world still turns ).



He says that to make it clear to the military that he is not a threat which they see him as.This culminates in the scene during after the battle in smallville after Superman saves soldiers and one of them says '' This man is not our enemy ''.

Again you seem to have no response to the FACT that Superman constantly saves human lifes throughout the film and still rather childishly call him a '' dick ''.Please explain how Superman saving human life makes him a ''dick ''.You cant? Thought so.

I dont take it personally at all, we all like different things, its just so laughable that you clearly did not watch the film and cannot admit you are wrong.But hey, a troll has to troll eh?



For you, irony is the time of day that your mum gets the creases out of your Spiderman underpants, isn't it?

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Mattyb is a shining example of what the perfect Empire Forum member is.


(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28214
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 1:27:59 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2336
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Cool Breeze's definition of troll = someone who has the temerity to disagree with him, even if it's done in a civil manner.


CB calling someone a troll has set a new bar for irony on these forums!


And the ultimate irony of that statement is that you quoted Monstercat there!

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)
Post #: 28215
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 1:33:45 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2336
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Just checked and its definetly Zod who is punched into the satellite.Both of them are in space at this point and when Supes charges at Zod, the villain smashes Supes back down to earth.As i said before, when the guy was attacking him, its not like Zod was going to take the fight anywhere else or give Supes the chance.

Look, obviously you dont like the film and are rather obsessed with this so are not likely to agree but Supes saved an awful lot of people from dying which makes him a hero.If you cant see that well then thats your problem.

And that fight beat anything from the Marvel films..in my opinion of course.


Isn't that the key part, rather than who is punched into the satellite? Zod has taken Superman into space, not the other way around. It is disingenuous to claim that the scene is proof of Superman intending to take the fight away from the city to save people. At no point does he attempt to do so.


As has been mentioned time and time again, Superman saves COUNTLESS lives during the course of Man Of Steel.During that final fight, Zods assault is so brutal, Supes doesnt have a chance to take the fight as far away as he could because Zod would just keep on killing people.The only option was to stop him as quick as he could.

By your reasoning, Chris Reeves Superman in Superman 2 endangers people needlessly by challenging Zod and his two buddies right in the middle of Metropolis!

But lets face it, outside the story, we all wanted to see an epic fight in a city.It wouldnt have looked half as good or dramatic had it taken place on the moon.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 28216
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 1:36:57 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 8869
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Cool Breeze's definition of troll = someone who has the temerity to disagree with him, even if it's done in a civil manner.


CB calling someone a troll has set a new bar for irony on these forums!


And the ultimate irony of that statement is that you quoted Monstercat there!


Duh yeah i know, i was following on from what Monster Cat said. Bless you, it must be hard to keep up

_____________________________

Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28217
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 2:00:13 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8205
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

As has been mentioned time and time again, Superman saves COUNTLESS lives during the course of Man Of Steel.During that final fight, Zods assault is so brutal, Supes doesnt have a chance to take the fight as far away as he could because Zod would just keep on killing people.The only option was to stop him as quick as he could.

By your reasoning, Chris Reeves Superman in Superman 2 endangers people needlessly by challenging Zod and his two buddies right in the middle of Metropolis!



That's not really an apt comparison for a few reasons. The destruction obviously isn't on the same level, Superman 2 shows Superman overtly going out of his way during the battle to save people and Superman realises that his presence is actually putting more people in harms way, so he leaves in order to protect them.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28218
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 3:58:16 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2336
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

As has been mentioned time and time again, Superman saves COUNTLESS lives during the course of Man Of Steel.During that final fight, Zods assault is so brutal, Supes doesnt have a chance to take the fight as far away as he could because Zod would just keep on killing people.The only option was to stop him as quick as he could.

By your reasoning, Chris Reeves Superman in Superman 2 endangers people needlessly by challenging Zod and his two buddies right in the middle of Metropolis!



That's not really an apt comparison for a few reasons. The destruction obviously isn't on the same level, Superman 2 shows Superman overtly going out of his way during the battle to save people and Superman realises that his presence is actually putting more people in harms way, so he leaves in order to protect them.



Yeah he leaves after ten minutes of battling Zod and his cronies and causing lots of destruction! Supes deliberately challenged Zod and his buddies to a fight in the middle of Metrolpolis.That fight never had to happen in the first place if all Supes had to do was lure them to the fortress of solitude.

The difference in Man Of Steel is that Supes didnt have a choice.Zod took him on right there in Metropolis.

But hey, they are just movies, the real reason both fights happen in both movies is that the filmakers wanted to show an epic superhero fight in a city.

_____________________________

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(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 28219
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 4:06:23 PM   
garvielloken


Posts: 1186
Joined: 23/10/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

I dont take it personally at all



If you don't take it personally, why do you resort to calling people trolls as soon as they disagree with you. Shifty even mentioned he doesn't hate the film, he is pointing out what he considers flaws in the film and then you get your panties in a twist. Kind of sad really.

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(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28220
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 5:02:55 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

As has been mentioned time and time again, Superman saves COUNTLESS lives during the course of Man Of Steel.During that final fight, Zods assault is so brutal, Supes doesnt have a chance to take the fight as far away as he could because Zod would just keep on killing people.The only option was to stop him as quick as he could.

By your reasoning, Chris Reeves Superman in Superman 2 endangers people needlessly by challenging Zod and his two buddies right in the middle of Metropolis!



That's not really an apt comparison for a few reasons. The destruction obviously isn't on the same level, Superman 2 shows Superman overtly going out of his way during the battle to save people and Superman realises that his presence is actually putting more people in harms way, so he leaves in order to protect them.



Yeah he leaves after ten minutes of battling Zod and his cronies and causing lots of destruction! Supes deliberately challenged Zod and his buddies to a fight in the middle of Metrolpolis.That fight never had to happen in the first place if all Supes had to do was lure them to the fortress of solitude.

The difference in Man Of Steel is that Supes didnt have a choice.Zod took him on right there in Metropolis.

But hey, they are just movies, the real reason both fights happen in both movies is that the filmakers wanted to show an epic superhero fight in a city.


Yeah, but even there he realizes the problem of his actions. MoS, thousands dead in a battle that could have been taken everywhere by making Zod chase him or push him in the middle of the American Midlands where people are not as densely packed. Man of Steel doesn't even bother to examine that AFTER the battle, where it is rebuilt in seconds with no second thought on Supes' fight.

You mention Marvel, Marvel actually does it perfectly, with the Avengers taking care of some evacuations and we see the heroes acknowledging that thousands are being endangered, afterwards, we see effects, people have been killed and those still missing have posters about them to see if they can be found in the usual 9/11 reference. MoS utterly glosses over that.

Oh, and before you say "it is obvious you didn't like it", I actually did, it's that the film does something great and awful constantly. And I like it much more then Nolan's last Batmediocrity.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28221
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 7:28:58 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Again you seem to have no response to the FACT that Superman constantly saves human lifes throughout the film and still rather childishly call him a '' dick ''.Please explain how Superman saving human life makes him a ''dick ''.You cant? Thought so.


I already said why I thought he was a dick. Granted he he is not as bad as creepy stalker Supes in Returns but he is still unlikable in my opinion. Also, is calling a fictional character a dick really 'childish'? I just thought it was me giving an opinion. Of a fictional character. In a movie. Not as though I called you a name, which would have been childish.

quote:

.But hey, a troll has to troll eh?


Yeah, exactly, childish just like that.



< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 11/11/2013 7:31:38 PM >


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(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 28222
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 7:44:57 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
I'm curious about something, Cool Breeze, if it's childish to call a fictional character a dick, what would you think of someone who said an actor looked like a thug, was an uncouth scumbag, or a drunken cunt?

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 28223
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 7:56:10 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

I'm curious about something, Cool Breeze, if it's childish to call a fictional character a dick, what would you think of someone who said an actor looked like a thug, was an uncouth scumbag, or a drunken cunt?


Yeah, you'd think I had called him a dick or,oh, I don't know, a troll or something.......

_____________________________

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(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 28224
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 11/11/2013 8:02:14 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18127
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
I would say I found his choice of stating:

quote:


Absolute bullshit.


in response to a comment which was most definitely was not pretty objectionable as well. I may have paraphrased a line used but the essence of it was precisely the same.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 11/11/2013 8:03:08 PM >


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(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 28225
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 12/11/2013 1:02:43 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23695
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia
Personally I don't hate the film and it has some great moments. The Oil Rig rescue in particular is stand out and some of the moments when he is travelling the world also are very good. That does not stop the flaws being there.


I agree with Harry Tuttle in that I probably think it's the best of the Superman films out there. And I actually quite liked the fact that Superman wasn't a complete goody-two-shoes by default and had a bit of an edge about him. The always-does-right boy scout stuff is too earnest, limiting and (dare I say it) unrealistic for me. Having said that, the trashing of Metropolis in the thousands-dead throwdown was a bit too much in that direction. It has too many similarities to Optimus Prime's 'plan' to teach humanity a lesson by allowing Chicago to be destroyed in TF3 for my liking. At least in Donner's films the safety of the people trumps everything else viz. Superman 'fleeing' from Zod in order to stop people being harmed, despite the fact they all think he's abandoned them.


At the risk of trolling you by offering a point of disagreement, I would put it to you that Superman's unrealism is central to his success as a character on a mythic level rather than on the level of traditional character development. Let's be honest, traditional narrative arcs of personal development are wasted on an invincible alien with godlike powers who can basically do anything. If you try to avoid thinking about Superman in a modern definition of character and instead in the same way characters like pantheons of gods are depicted in classical literature (which offer frequently improbable plot/character moments in order to give their protagonists more mythical dimensions), he's a lot more successful.

To this, you may very justifiably say 'how then does Superman have any relevance to me for I am not an invincible alien with godlike powers'. (please ignore this if you are an invincible alien.) But if we instead consider how having mythical structures in our lives helps to shape our conception of the world - anything from organised religion to reading comic books - I think he makes more sense. Superman is interesting as a prop that the human characters respond to. This is why Man of Steel missed the point spectacularly - the dramatic tension in any great Superman story is the contrast between Superman's perfection and the imperfection of the humans he protects (and to consider it in a more metafictional way, the humans who created him). The human drama comes from having a representation of the best of humanity not being human, or something. Bring him 'down to our level' and you chuck away the most resonant aspect of the character.

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(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 28226
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 12/11/2013 1:30:53 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Oh Supes was at his best when he was a communist anyways.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 28227
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 12/11/2013 7:34:10 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8205
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf
At the risk of trolling you by offering a point of disagreement, I would put it to you that Superman's unrealism is central to his success as a character on a mythic level rather than on the level of traditional character development. Let's be honest, traditional narrative arcs of personal development are wasted on an invincible alien with godlike powers who can basically do anything. If you try to avoid thinking about Superman in a modern definition of character and instead in the same way characters like pantheons of gods are depicted in classical literature (which offer frequently improbable plot/character moments in order to give their protagonists more mythical dimensions), he's a lot more successful.

To this, you may very justifiably say 'how then does Superman have any relevance to me for I am not an invincible alien with godlike powers'. (please ignore this if you are an invincible alien.) But if we instead consider how having mythical structures in our lives helps to shape our conception of the world - anything from organised religion to reading comic books - I think he makes more sense. Superman is interesting as a prop that the human characters respond to. This is why Man of Steel missed the point spectacularly - the dramatic tension in any great Superman story is the contrast between Superman's perfection and the imperfection of the humans he protects (and to consider it in a more metafictional way, the humans who created him). The human drama comes from having a representation of the best of humanity not being human, or something. Bring him 'down to our level' and you chuck away the most resonant aspect of the character.


It's a fair point, but one that's rarely given space to explore in a cinematic setting. Let's face it, the Superman movies - all of them (with the exception of IV which I've had Eternal Sunshined from my mind) - get far more interesting when his vulnerabilities and emotions are allowed to show themselves. When he loses it and goes against his fathers commandment that he shall not interfere in history in Superman; when he gets angry with himself at Lois discovering his secret, when he crushes Zods hand and gets his revenge on the truckstop bully in Superman II, beardy Pisa-pushing Superman in III etc etc. They're often the most entertaining or interesting bits of the movies, for any number of reasons.

That he's a moral guardian as well as a physical one underpins the character of course, and I don't think we should see him snorting coke off Lois' tits while Wonder Woman gives him a hummer or anything (or do I...). But little cracks of human imperfection go a long way with an otherwise perfect character - you don't need a lot, just a pinch, and it's a much more rounded and interesting creation. It's only when it starts going against the fundamental nature of him that I object to it (such as well he has an immortal's deathmatch in the middle of a city without showing the slightest bit of concern for the inhabitants).

(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 28228
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 12/11/2013 12:14:45 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4421
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Oh Supes was at his best when he was a communist anyways.


I would love to see Red Son.

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(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 28229
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 12/11/2013 5:37:04 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18127
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


That he's a moral guardian as well as a physical one underpins the character of course, and I don't think we should see him snorting coke off Lois' tits while Wonder Woman gives him a hummer or anything (or do I...).


As if we don't know you have the ahem parodies in your collection

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(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 28230
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