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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!!

 
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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 8:10:43 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
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Skyfall was awful. I'm not sure what I was meant to gain from watching it. Q and Moneypenny were annoying and Chigurh never felt like a threat beside the wig. The comedy moments fell flat, the Adele song was generic church music and almost the whole thing took place in London. I live in London, I want to see Bond adventure across the globe in exotic locations. Not bloody London. The Shanghai section was cool though.

Hunger Games was letdown by the cop out Hollywood ending. Also, the leads had no chemistry.

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 11:08:21 AM   
Whistler


Posts: 3108
Joined: 22/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: will1000

I found this whilst killing time at work today ( I got that Friday feeling!) and I have to say that the guy in this video makes a compelling case for a generally unpopular opinion surrounding Alien3 . This video does make me want to go back and watch the film again.

In the defence of Alien3




The biggest problem with Alien 3 is that it's just really boring. He does make a good argument, but I'm not convinced that by re-watching it I'll see what he sees.

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Post #: 27152
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 1:50:48 PM   
rich


Posts: 4982
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
The biggest problem is it's exploitative use of the previous Aliens characters and that Ripley had no reason to be in besides marketing. If a film has to force this thing on the audience (Look at this! Feel things! Are you sad yet!?) then it's basically a waste of time. That's without even looking at it's failure as a horror - it's not a creepy film after the best edge of your seat parts in the previous ones. Any argument that is "it's supposed to be that way, it's supposed to be dark, it's supposed to suck" then it just falls apart.

< Message edited by rich -- 16/3/2013 2:01:06 PM >


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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 2:28:12 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
As a film about death, loss and decay, Alien 3 is pretty great. Ripley the survivor has to embrace her own end. It might be bit as good as the prior two, but it fits in nicely as part of the trilogy.

Any movie with Ripley and her happy family could only ever be a repeat of the second movie. Mind you, I never had the wait for Alien 3 some had, so maybe my views on the Newt/Hicks thing is different.

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Post #: 27154
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 2:52:24 PM   
Deviation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

The biggest problem is it's exploitative use of the previous Aliens characters and that Ripley had no reason to be in besides marketing. If a film has to force this thing on the audience (Look at this! Feel things! Are you sad yet!?) then it's basically a waste of time. That's without even looking at it's failure as a horror - it's not a creepy film after the best edge of your seat parts in the previous ones. Any argument that is "it's supposed to be that way, it's supposed to be dark, it's supposed to suck" then it just falls apart.


How the flying fuck are those poor arguments? An franchise that already has very dark imagery and subtexts cannot be intentionally dark now?

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Post #: 27155
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 3:34:28 PM   
rich


Posts: 4982
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44
Any movie with Ripley and her happy family could only ever be a repeat of the second movie.



Which is why she shouldn't have been in it?

quote:


How the flying fuck are those poor arguments? An franchise that already has very dark imagery and subtexts cannot be intentionally dark now?


Because by saying "you didn't enjoy it? That's the point" is just a cop out that avoids looking at the real problems. Alien is pretty grim and nihilistic but I still like watching it.

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Post #: 27156
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 3:50:26 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
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From: Punishment Park
So you wanted an Alien sequel, coming off Aliens, that didn't have Ripley? You can see where the complaints would come from if they did that....

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 4:12:41 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

Because by saying "you didn't enjoy it? That's the point" is just a cop out that avoids looking at the real problems. Alien is pretty grim and nihilistic but I still like watching it.


But that's not what you're saying, you said being intentionally dark is the problem, which now you claim it isn't because it was done well in Alien and hence, the problem was not intention in its "darkness" and its execution. It's like criticizing Schindler's List for being depressing. A film being dark and it being not entertaining in any way are not mutually exclusive.

Also, Alien is pretty damn positive.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 16/3/2013 4:13:59 PM >


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There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

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Post #: 27158
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 4:40:23 PM   
rich


Posts: 4982
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

So you wanted an Alien sequel, coming off Aliens, that didn't have Ripley? You can see where the complaints would come from if they did that....


Yes. Do you think there would have been more complaints than the finished product got? Alien worked as a standalone creature horror. Aliens has a nice little arc in there, it's satisfying. There's no real need to carry that on. Alien3 is like someone was desperate to reset all that just to have the brand awareness be stronger rather than just build a new story around the religious stuff and the prison.

quote:


Also, Alien is pretty damn positive.


The video said that the criticism Alien3 gets is unjustified because the storyline had to go down that route, and that the Alien always wins, everyone dying was the only way they could possibly have gone. This is rubbish because the Aliens actually always lose like so many other movie monsters - I seem to remember they got nuked or blasted into space, regardless of the body count. I just generally dislike critiques that deflect the negative press by saying things like "you're not supposed to enjoy yourself" and "it's meant to be crap, that's the point". That isn't a review, it's just pulling the misunderstood/audience didn't get it card.

I say nihilistic, with things like Ash's last speech, but it's still within the bounds of the usual horror format. Despite the similarities with The Thing, Alien ends with Ripley getting away. The corporate evil and unstoppable monster stuff is pretty heavy going but the Narcissus floats off unscathed with the cat and everything. Anyway - the Escapist's point was that the way things went in the 3rd instalment were perfectly acceptable way to go about things, and I can't agree. All I get from it is real world Company meddling.

To clarify though - Alien3 is not bad film. I just don't like it.

< Message edited by rich -- 16/3/2013 4:59:56 PM >


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Post #: 27159
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 7:26:56 PM   
will1000

 

Posts: 1797
Joined: 8/10/2005
Yikes! I opened a can of worms there! If it hadn't been made, fans would have asked the question "but what is Ripley's ultimate fate?". Personally I think it nicely caps off the trilogy. I would like it to see it 're-edited' with better CGI for the zeno...because it hasn't aged well!

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Post #: 27160
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 16/3/2013 8:32:44 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2351
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From: The Internet
Ripleys story arc was completed by the end of Aliens.

She faced her fears, defeated the aliens, and found a surrogate daughter in Newt.

Alien 3 destroyed all that.It is such a bleak film that its bleakness is projected back onto Camerons movie.Now when we see Hicks and Newt fight to survive in Aliens, we know its all pointless as they will die at the start of the next movie quite horribly in their cryotubes.

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 2:27:20 PM   
matty_b


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From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
That criticism only really works if you accept that 'sad/tragic ending = bad ending', which is pretty silly, really.

Alien 3 is great. It looks terrific and the atmosphere practically chokes you with dread. I mean, I get why people would have preferred it to end with Aliens. I love the end of Aliens as much as I do the end of Alien 3. I think they both work in wildly different ways.

But then, I'm someone who can happily ignore any sequels that tarnish the original anyway. Alien: Resurrection is dreck, so I don't bother acknowledging its existence. Sure I know it's there, but for me, Ripley's story ends where it should, on Fiorina - for others, that may be heading back home to Earth.

And obviously I get that other people might find it that silly, but really, it's the best way to avoid saying that a film further down the line somehow tarnishes the earlier work which I find equally silly.

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Post #: 27162
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 3:21:38 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10883
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Alien 3 is absolute cack regardless of what Fincher revisionists/apologists say. Terrible story, terrible script, ugly, repugnant characters. It is the result of a studio who were mere concerned with a release date than making a good film, just like X-Men 3.

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 3:55:32 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Alien 3 is absolute cack regardless of what Fincher revisionists/apologists say. Terrible story, terrible script, ugly, repugnant characters. It is the result of a studio who were mere concerned with a release date than making a good film, just like X-Men 3.


It's a good thing you reminded me that you get to decide these things. I was beginning to believe that it was a matter of opinion.

Thanks...

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 19/3/2013 3:57:12 PM >


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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 6:01:15 PM   
UTB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Alien 3 is absolute cack regardless of what Fincher revisionists/apologists say. Terrible story, terrible script, ugly, repugnant characters. It is the result of a studio who were mere concerned with a release date than making a good film, just like X-Men 3.


It's a good thing you reminded me that you get to decide these things. I was beginning to believe that it was a matter of opinion.



Do we need to prefix our opinions in the opinions thread with "in my opinion" in case these opinions are taken as fact as opposed to opinions in your opinion?

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Post #: 27165
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 6:16:56 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Alien 3 is absolute cack regardless of what Fincher revisionists/apologists say. Terrible story, terrible script, ugly, repugnant characters. It is the result of a studio who were mere concerned with a release date than making a good film, just like X-Men 3.


It's a good thing you reminded me that you get to decide these things. I was beginning to believe that it was a matter of opinion.



Do we need to prefix our opinions in the opinions thread with "in my opinion" in case these opinions are taken as fact as opposed to opinions in your opinion?


Isn't there a difference between someone offering an opinion based on their actual opinion on the merits or lack of in any given film and one that simply attempts to dismiss any opposing opinion from fans of the film as being that of revisionists or apologists for the director? The first is an individual opinion, the second is trying to dismiss any other opinion by labelling the fans.

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Post #: 27166
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 6:30:58 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
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From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Alien 3 is absolute cack regardless of what Fincher revisionists/apologists say. Terrible story, terrible script, ugly, repugnant characters. It is the result of a studio who were mere concerned with a release date than making a good film, just like X-Men 3.


It's a good thing you reminded me that you get to decide these things. I was beginning to believe that it was a matter of opinion.



Do we need to prefix our opinions in the opinions thread with "in my opinion" in case these opinions are taken as fact as opposed to opinions in your opinion?


Isn't there a difference between someone offering an opinion based on their actual opinion on the merits or lack of in any given film and one that simply attempts to dismiss any opposing opinion from fans of the film as being that of revisionists or apologists for the director? The first is an individual opinion, the second is trying to dismiss any other opinion by labelling the fans.



Indeed. I usually take it as read that whatever somebody posts is their opinion but when somebody dismisses any other opinion to theirs as revisionism or apologism then I take it that they're presenting their opinion as fact.

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 19/3/2013 6:31:52 PM >


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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 7:18:15 PM   
matty_b


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Or trolling. One of the two.

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 7:26:08 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
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Do you know what it is I like about directorscut the most?

It's his subtle way with people and processing their opinions. His lightness of touch even.

On the subject of Alien 3, I quite like it but it is flawed. Considering the bullshit he had to put up with at the time I think Fincher pulled off a minor miracle by delivering a half-way decent flick.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 19/3/2013 7:31:44 PM >


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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 7:28:45 PM   
Whistler


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Okay, H&G: Witch Hunters was a lot of fun. I don't know if it's screaming out for a sequel, but I'll happily watch one.

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 7:33:33 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14555
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

On the subject of Alien 3, I quite like it but it is flawed. Considering the bullshit he had to put up with at the time I think Fincher pulled off a minor miracle by delivering a half-way decent flick.


It's a shame he can't be tempted back to do an actual director's cut of it. Something between the flawed theatrical version and the overlong workprint version would be great.

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Post #: 27171
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 7:34:21 PM   
directorscut


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Alien 3 was widely dismissed and (deservedly) bashed when released from critics, Alien fans and the general movie-going audience. Only since Fincher has become the "it" director did this "under-rated masterpiece" bollox start apearing. These are the facts.

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 7:44:01 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Alien 3 was widely dismissed and (deservedly) bashed when released from critics, Alien fans and the general movie-going audience. Only since Fincher has become the "it" director did this "under-rated masterpiece" bollox start apearing. These are the facts.


As you interpret them.

And misspell them.

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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 7:44:48 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Alien 3 was widely dismissed and (deservedly) bashed when released from critics, Alien fans and the general movie-going audience. Only since Fincher has become the "it" director did this "under-rated masterpiece" bollox start apearing. These are the facts.


So basically because some people didn't like it 21 years ago, when most of the people posting at this site would probably have been too young to even have seen it (yourself included), then anybody who likes it today, and thinks it's an under-rated masterpiece because it was dismissed on initial release, must be wrong.

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Post #: 27174
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 8:01:18 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
I'm going to watch Alien 3 tonight, and then I will write a review in which I will praise it to the high heavens in order to annoy directorscut.

Afterwards I will masturbate over the pain and anguish this will cause him.

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Post #: 27175
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 8:09:20 PM   
doubtlesswonder


Posts: 2437
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From: Yorkshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

Okay, H&G: Witch Hunters was a lot of fun. I don't know if it's screaming out for a sequel, but I'll happily watch one.


Same! I really enjoyed it.

I saw H&G one day and then Oz The Great and Powerful the day after, and H&G was far more enjoyable.

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Post #: 27176
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 8:14:23 PM   
Whistler


Posts: 3108
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quote:

ORIGINAL: doubtlesswonder


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whistler

Okay, H&G: Witch Hunters was a lot of fun. I don't know if it's screaming out for a sequel, but I'll happily watch one.


Same! I really enjoyed it.

I saw H&G one day and then Oz The Great and Powerful the day after, and H&G was far more enjoyable.


Glad I'm not the only one

...but I liked Oz too

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Post #: 27177
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 8:31:11 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4381
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Afterwards I will masturbate over the pain and anguish this will cause him.


I think we all should.We could be a team like..like the Mighty Ducks.

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Post #: 27178
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 8:56:08 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10883
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I'm going to watch Alien 3 tonight, and then I will write a review in which I will praise it to the high heavens in order to annoy directorscut.

Afterwards I will masturbate over the pain and anguish this will cause him.


My pain and anguish will be significantly less than yours while watching the film.

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Post #: 27179
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 19/3/2013 9:02:03 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
I'll be fine thanks. I like Alien 3.

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Films watched in 2013

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Post #: 27180
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