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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!!

 
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RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:26:19 AM   
AmityBodega1977

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 13/3/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: AmityBodega1977

Loved all the Star Wars Prequels. Never forget seeing Phantom in 1999 and was just blown away by the pod race and Darth Maul battle. I've heard all the arguments but it would have been impossible to duplicate the originals place in the zeitgeist - the originals were just too good. But nobody can meld state of the art technology and original storytelling like Lucas. His imagination is just incredible.


I hope your affairs are in order and you've made peace with The Lord. I also hope your insurance is paid up and you've had your rabies shots...

While I maybe wouldn't go quite that far, I have to agree. The Second Coming couldn't have hoped to live up to the hype and unrealistically sky-high fanboy expectations which awaited The Phantom Menace at the time (cf: Prometheus, The Dark Knight Rises and The Hobbit probably). And while I think the finished article undeniably has problems - it lacks the storytelling "purity" of the more linear originals and suffers from an almost fatal lack of narrative momentum and storytelling focus (thanks largely to too much setting up of backstory to what already was a backstory) which a judicious edit would have done much to rectify - I still think even the fans got their money's worth. The aforementioned podrace (which does go on a bit too long) and the Darth Maul lightsabre battle which remains the best of the saga. I think it's fair to say that Lucas himself must have found the whole prospect quite daunting. It's not like he wasn't under any pressure or anything - he is only human after all.

Indeed, some of the best stuff of the saga is in the prequels. The multiple climaxes of Attack of the Clones - the Harryhausen-tastic gladatorial arena, the mass jedi battle (Seven Hundred Samurai!) which expands to become all-out war, Anakin and Obi-Wan V Dooku, Yoda V Dooku! (That's Yoda. V Dracula ferchrissakes!) Order 66 which I always find deeply affecting - something to do with some of John Williams best ever music no doubt which lends Revenge of the Sith a real sense of epic tragedy. The simultaneous birth of Darth Vader and the twins. That Godfather-montage at the end of Revenge of the Sith. And Ian McDiarmid is always a Machiavellian joy to watch - look at his almost imperceptible wee smirks as he does his Iago-bit in The Phantom Menace and his perfectly calibrated powerhouse performance in Revenge of the Sith which blows everyone else off the screen (Christopher Lee and Samuel L Jackson included!) and makes George's cloth-eared dialogue sound like Shakespeare. Or Milton.

While often ponderous, I kinda like the political skulduggery at the heart of the prequels too. Lucas said, as far back as 1985, that any prequels would be "more of a mystery" and therefore less popular. The man must be psychic! Maybe the fans just wanted more of the same. But I like the fact the prequels are different and not just a tired re-tread of what we'd already seen. (Although Anakin would definitely have benefited from being more of a roguish Han Solo-type than a whiner like his son - must be a Skywalker family trait.) Plus I don't think the prequels have ever got the credit they deserve for the many subtle, clever and ironic things which go on in them - ironic parallels and foreshadowing abound - and what they have to say about the nature of politics, freedom, democracy and tyranny. The Star Wars Saga has always been radical if not subversive at heart (it was originally inspired, at least in part, by the Vietnam war remember. The "Evil Empire" is America itself, ultimately defeated by primitive, technologically inferior opponents on their home turf - Ewoks don't surf!) Lucas will always be a sixties radical at heart and I'll always cut him some slack for that. As well as those fond childhood memories which for this fanboy remain, er, unsullied.*

A lot of the criticisms levelled at the prequels could just as easily be levelled at the original trilogy. And were. Is Lucas' alleged "dire-logue" really any better or worse now than it was then? Does "You can type this shit but you can't say it," ring any bells? As William Goldman has said (in defence of James Cameron's Titanic), there is more to good storytelling than sparkling dialogue. (Although for someone who "can't write," Lucas has come up with a few zingers in his time which continue to be quoted to this day - "Let the Wookiee win," "That's no moon, it's a space station," "Boring conversation anyway...") Screenplays are structure. And if there's one thing the much-and-unfairly-maligned Lucas and Cameron have in common is: they know how to tell a good story. But then Goldman also said "Nobody knows anything," so what do I know?

Back in the day, Jar-Jar haters were droid haters. In actual fact, these guys are (and were) po-faced fanbots who insist on taking this sort of thing far too seriously and always resent comic relief or anything remotely humorous spoiling their untertainment. [sic] They don't like the kissy-kissy stuff either cos it makes 'em feel awkward. The young kids in the audience (ie, the audience the Star Wars movies have always been aimed at, not disgruntled, aging fanboys like myself who refuse to grow up) have always loved Jar Jar and the droids. Ma wee boy adores Jar Jar Binks. To the point he runs about saying "Meesa" this and "Meesa" that all the time, which his mum finds bemusing and ironic in about equal measure. Lucky for him (and me!) that his daddy isn't a Jar Jar hater...

It always bemuses me no end that you have to be a fan to hate something as much as some Star Wars fans HATE the Star Wars prequels. But then "fan" is short for "fanatic" after all. A zealot. Never a good thing. And if there's one thing fanatics lack it's perspective. Perspective and self-awareness. Two things. Perspective, self-awareness and proprtion. Three things. Perspective, self-awareness, proportion and a sense of humour... But then I've always suspected the bigger the fan the more they completely miss the point. Like Christians who support the death penalty and blow up abortion clinics.

Anywho, I think some fans, their unrealistic, impossible-to-satisfy hopes dashed have always been unduly harsh towards the Star Wars prequels which will stand the test of time. Future generations won't distinguish between "classic" and "prequel" trilogies. It will be all be the one saga to them - which it is - and will be judged as a whole. Favourably, I suspect.






* Anyone who says without a hint of irony, perspective or self-awareness that a mere disappointing film has somehow "raped their childhood" is a twat, BTW. And an insensitive, inappropriate and attention-seeking twat at that. How's that for an unpopular opinion?

Bravo Chris for that dissertation. I am not a sci fi or Star Wars fanatic I just loved how the films felt so familiar. the originals I only remember from tv showings as I wasn't old enough to see originals (well I was 5 when Jedi came out) in the cinema but of course loved them because my older brothers loved them. it was Han Solo and Chewy we loved, and I'll never forget Vader's entrance - he scared the hell out of me, so did the storm troopers.
I saw the originals later in my teens and then the re released versions in the cinema and was amazed at how, well, boring they were. the pace was so slow in Episode IV it was almost like documentary pace and the droids really annoyed me. but of course I was won over by the end of IV and V is, well, one of the greatest sequels ever made and VI was a dream come true for Hasbro!!
Lucas is one of the greatest storytellers if not the greatest, along with Spielberg, Hollywood has ever produced and you had the sense that you were in great hands when watching their films. Sad that Lucas has decided to retire, but I truly believe the prequels will be reevaluated as great works by future generations of fans and film critics. Lucas fingerprints are all over the prequels and they are touched with genius, no doubt about it.


(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 26281
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:27:32 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
I really wish someone would make a dark, intelligent zombie epic. No humour, weapons etc just the definitive zombie origin story. Just a shame the potential has always been wasted.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 26282
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:28:21 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Why do people still insist on TPM's lightsabre duel being the best in the series when the one at the end of ROTJ clearly is.


Exactly - it isn't about the swing of the blade. It is about the words said inbetween those swings.

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Post #: 26283
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:31:19 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4259
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Didn't I read that Boyle directed the first 10 mins of 28 Weeks Later?


That really wouldn't surprise me as it had that impulsive,dynamic and tense aspect to which the rest of the film severely lacked.

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Post #: 26284
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:36:18 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

I really wish someone would make a dark, intelligent zombie epic. No humour, weapons etc just the definitive zombie origin story. Just a shame the potential has always been wasted.


There's no humour in Night of the Living Dead, that's pretty dark.

What do you mean, exactly? No weapons? So, no humans fighting back? Just asking for clarification.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 26/8/2012 12:41:50 AM >


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Post #: 26285
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:36:28 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
Oh and on the subject of Jeremy Renner, he bores me. I prefer actors with a personality.



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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 26286
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:41:42 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4259
Joined: 5/2/2012
Personally I find modern Zombie films abit tiresome and I think 28 Days Later was the last great use of those characters.(28 Days Later was a Zombie film)

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 26287
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:45:18 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

I really wish someone would make a dark, intelligent zombie epic. No humour, weapons etc just the definitive zombie origin story. Just a shame the potential has always been wasted.


There's no humour in Night of the Living Dead, that's pretty dark.



Night of the Living Dead is an effective small, indy horror film but it's not a huge zombie epic. I'd like to see a 3 hour (or possibly trilogy) of the definitive zombie story. Very dark, brutal and REAL.

quote:

What do you mean, exactly? No weapons? So, no humans fighting back?


I mean none of those dumb chainsaw, baseball bat fantasies you see in OTT zombie films and video games.
If you saw a ZOMBIE would you try to attack it with a melee weapon?! No, you'd RUN. But I suppose you can't have a ''leading man'' flee from danger in a film.

< Message edited by vad3r -- 26/8/2012 12:46:49 AM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 26288
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:46:36 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

Personally I find modern Zombie films abit tiresome and I think 28 Days Later was the last great use of those characters.(28 Days Later was a Zombie film)


Zombies are supposed to be the dead re-animated, this is not the case in 28 Days Later. I assume this is why people say they are not zombies. I don't care either way


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Post #: 26289
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:48:10 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19037
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Aren't you just talking about Walking Dead?

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Post #: 26290
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:50:54 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12116
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think they're zombies

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 26291
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:51:21 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4259
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

Personally I find modern Zombie films abit tiresome and I think 28 Days Later was the last great use of those characters.(28 Days Later was a Zombie film)


Zombies are supposed to be the dead re-animated, this is not the case in 28 Days Later. I assume this is why people say they are not zombies. I don't care either way



Scratch-that.
Shaun Of The Dead was the last great zombie film.

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 26292
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:51:53 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12116
Joined: 30/9/2005
Oh, and they prefer to be called the Living Impaired

(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 26293
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:51:57 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
I mean none of those dumb chainsaw, baseball bat fantasies you see in OTT zombie films and video games.
If you saw a ZOMBIE would you try to attack it with a melee weapon?! No, you'd RUN. But I suppose you can't have a ''leading man'' flee from danger in a film.


People running from zombies for three hours wouldn't really be 'epic', though.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 26/8/2012 12:52:28 AM >


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Post #: 26294
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:54:08 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Aren't you just talking about Walking Dead?


That's on the small screen with a low budget. It doesn't show the global impact of a zombie outbreak.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the Koreans or Jamaicans are dealing with the zombie crisis for a change?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 26295
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:54:43 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4259
Joined: 5/2/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
I mean none of those dumb chainsaw, baseball bat fantasies you see in OTT zombie films and video games.
If you saw a ZOMBIE would you try to attack it with a melee weapon?! No, you'd RUN. But I suppose you can't have a ''leading man'' flee from danger in a film.


People running from zombies for three hours wouldn't really be 'epic', though.


Olympic-Zombie-Tournament.
There you go,sorted.
This will be the last great Zombie film.


quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Aren't you just talking about Walking Dead?


That's on the small screen with a low budget. It doesn't show the global impact of a zombie outbreak.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the Koreans or Jamaicans are dealing with the zombie crisis for a change?


That does sound pretty cool to be honest.

< Message edited by OPEN YOUR EYES -- 26/8/2012 12:56:28 AM >

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 26296
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:56:00 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12116
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
I mean none of those dumb chainsaw, baseball bat fantasies you see in OTT zombie films and video games.
If you saw a ZOMBIE would you try to attack it with a melee weapon?! No, you'd RUN. But I suppose you can't have a ''leading man'' flee from danger in a film.


People running from zombies for three hours wouldn't really be 'epic', though.


Olympic-Zombie-Tournament.
There you go,sorted.
This will be the last great Zombie film.

Just play QWOP

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 26297
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 12:59:37 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
I mean none of those dumb chainsaw, baseball bat fantasies you see in OTT zombie films and video games.
If you saw a ZOMBIE would you try to attack it with a melee weapon?! No, you'd RUN. But I suppose you can't have a ''leading man'' flee from danger in a film.


People running from zombies for three hours wouldn't really be 'epic', though.


They wouldn't run for the whole three hours. Halfway through the last few survivors navigate a space craft to another planet and attempt to repopulate and restart civilisation from scratch.



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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 26298
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:00:02 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4259
Joined: 5/2/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Aren't you just talking about Walking Dead?


That's on the small screen with a low budget. It doesn't show the global impact of a zombie outbreak.

Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the Koreans or Jamaicans are dealing with the zombie crisis for a change?


Or maybe a take on Aborigines being over-run by Zombie Australians.That's of course if the Australians haven't wiped out the Aborigines already.

< Message edited by OPEN YOUR EYES -- 26/8/2012 1:01:12 AM >

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 26299
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:00:43 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the Koreans or Jamaicans are dealing with the zombie crisis for a change?


Yeah, actually, it would. I'm agreeing with you and I feel as though I may need to sit down for a bit....

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Post #: 26300
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:04:23 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
I mean none of those dumb chainsaw, baseball bat fantasies you see in OTT zombie films and video games.
If you saw a ZOMBIE would you try to attack it with a melee weapon?! No, you'd RUN. But I suppose you can't have a ''leading man'' flee from danger in a film.


People running from zombies for three hours wouldn't really be 'epic', though.


They wouldn't run for the whole three hours. Halfway through the last few survivors navigate a space craft to another planet and attempt to repopulate and restart civilisation from scratch.




Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, you've lost me


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Post #: 26301
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:12:20 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
I mean none of those dumb chainsaw, baseball bat fantasies you see in OTT zombie films and video games.
If you saw a ZOMBIE would you try to attack it with a melee weapon?! No, you'd RUN. But I suppose you can't have a ''leading man'' flee from danger in a film.


People running from zombies for three hours wouldn't really be 'epic', though.


They wouldn't run for the whole three hours. Halfway through the last few survivors navigate a space craft to another planet and attempt to repopulate and restart civilisation from scratch.




Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, you've lost me



Well it lasted 260 seconds, personal best.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 26302
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:14:50 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
You should be proud....

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Post #: 26303
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:19:17 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Characters in a zombie film not taking on the zombies would be a bit fucking dull, no?



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(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 26304
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:22:43 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
Why do the majority of films take place on Earth when there are eight other planets? Why not shoot it on Earth and set a film it on a different planet for once? Imagine the possibilities and stories you could tell.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 26305
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:22:50 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4259
Joined: 5/2/2012
Zombies vs Zombies.But this time its serious...

edit:
Muppet zombies.

< Message edited by OPEN YOUR EYES -- 26/8/2012 1:30:26 AM >

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 26306
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:31:46 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Why do the majority of films take place on Earth when there are eight other planets? Why not shoot it on Earth and set a film it on a different planet for once? Imagine the possibilities and stories you could tell.


There are more planets than that but in our Solar System there are only 7 more as Pluto no longer qualifies as one. And the answer is- no atmosphere.

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Post #: 26307
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:35:52 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES
Muppet zombies.


http://www.tauntr.com/blog/zombie-muppets


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Post #: 26308
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:39:23 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Characters in a zombie film not taking on the zombies would be a bit fucking dull, no?



No, it would be realistic.

Fighting a zombie is unthinkable to any human. If you had a gun maybe, but hitting it with a melee weapon? What would this achieve? There are MILLIONS of zombies which are gaining in numbers rapidly, why risk your life and health to kill one? How do you know that there are not diseases on it you can catch by being so close?

The ultimate zombie film should be about survival NOT war.

If I was in a zombie apocalypse I would salvage some supplies, a beautiful woman or two and wait it out somewhere safe. 90% of humans will be dead due to futile fighting. Eventually I'll get bored and go explore.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 26309
RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 26/8/2012 1:43:17 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12116
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

Characters in a zombie film not taking on the zombies would be a bit fucking dull, no?



No, it would be realistic.

Fighting a zombie is unthinkable to any human. If you had a gun maybe, but hitting it with a melee weapon? What would this achieve? There are MILLIONS of zombies which are gaining in numbers rapidly, why risk your life and health to kill one? How do you know that there are not diseases on it you can catch by being so close?

The ultimate zombie film should be about survival NOT war.

If I was in a zombie apocalypse I would salvage some supplies, a beautiful woman or two and wait it out somewhere safe. 90% of humans will be dead due to futile fighting. Eventually I'll get bored and go explore.

At which point you'll get attacked by a zombie and wish you had a melee weapon to defend yourself with

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 26310
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