RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!!

Follow @empiremagazine

Forum Home

Register for Free!

Log In

Moderator Tickets

FAQ

Users Online

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!!

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Movie Musings >> RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!!

Page: << < prev 866 867 [868] 869 870 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 1:59:01 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy

Don't think there is anything wrong with a little bit of camp in Batman films as long as it is kept in check. Returns is far darker and overall more successful than the first film for me.

Bane's quite camp actually - "Oh really? Then why are you people here?" Ooh, get her! But that's Tom Hardy all over - "You need to aim a little bigger, darling."

(in reply to ElephantBoy)

Post #: 26011

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 2:00:38 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Why is camp suddenly a bad thing?

I mean, Predator, Commando etc all are VERY campy. But it is done well. Burtons Batman movies are camp, but done well. The two sequels are also camp, but of the bad variety.

Is Predator camp? Commando, sure and it turns it up to 11 on the homo-eroticism scale, but whilst Predator has a fair amount of machismo it never appears camp. McTiernan makes it much more straight-laced.

There is an element of it I would say�- esp with characters such as Blaine - larger than life comic book characters with silly one liners etc. But again, it is all about tone and levels of camp.

Blaine and Mac are definitely... special friends.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)

Post #: 26012

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 2:09:01 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I actually have a few of these... the couple at the top of my head right now are:

I think the entire Matrix Trilogy is great, except for one scene in Reloaded (the rave... not the Architect).
At World's End is my favourite Pirates Of The Caribbean movie because it's so convoluted.

The Pirates of the Caribbean sequels are basically the Star Wars sequels. The second one goes dark, ends inconclusively with the symbolic death of the dashing anti-hero and there are daddy issues - They shoulda called it The (British) Empire Strikes Jack. And the third one (Return of the Dandy?) begins with everyone coming together to rescue the dashing anti-hero from his inconclusive fate at the end of the last one (eventually!) before going off the rails completely. And it's not as good as the others.

AAAR! Wars!

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 26013

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 2:13:51 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I actually have a few of these... the couple at the top of my head right now are:

I think the entire Matrix Trilogy is great, except for one scene in Reloaded (the rave... not the Architect).
At World's End is my favourite Pirates Of The Caribbean movie because it's so convoluted.

The Pirates of the Caribbean sequels are basically the Star Wars sequels. The second one goes dark, ends inconclusively with the symbolic death of the dashing anti-hero and there are daddy issues - They shoulda called it The (British) Empire Strikes Jack. And the third one (Return of the Dandy?) begins with everyone coming together to rescue the dashing anti-hero from his inconclusive fate at the end of the last one (eventually!) before going off the rails completely. And it's not as good as the others.

AAAR! Wars!

I never thought of it like that before. Jack's obsession with the Pearl also mirrors Han's relationship with the Millennium Falcon.

_____________________________

"It's amazing how many supposed 'plot holes' turn out to now be plot holes if you'd just pay attention", Me

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26014

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 2:27:07 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

Not so much unpopular opinions as completely fucking BARKING. And it's not just movies - I also think that "the man in the moon" is the reason all primitive human cultures believe in "God." Well, what is God but a big man up in the sky looking down on us all...?

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 26015

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 2:57:31 PM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Why is camp suddenly a bad thing?

I mean, Predator, Commando etc all are VERY campy. But it is done well. Burtons Batman movies are camp, but done well. The two sequels are also camp, but of the bad variety.

Is Predator camp? Commando, sure and it turns it up to 11 on the homo-eroticism scale, but whilst Predator has a fair amount of machismo it never appears camp. McTiernan makes it much more straight-laced.

Are you kidding? All those big, oiled-up, muscley guys alone in the jungle with their not-at-all fetishistic or Freudian weaponry? (Get a room, guys!) It's camp because it's so po-faced and humourless.

Freudian weaponry...honestly. Would you rather they used small vagina-shaped guns? They are shaped that way for efficiency, not because they enhance the masculinity of the character.

_____________________________

Latest Films:

Two days in New York: 4/5

Prometheus: 3.5/5

Abe Lincoln: VH 3/5

Twin Peaks: FWWM 3.5/5

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26016

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 3:45:08 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: st3veebee

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: clownfoot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Why is camp suddenly a bad thing?

I mean, Predator, Commando etc all are VERY campy. But it is done well. Burtons Batman movies are camp, but done well. The two sequels are also camp, but of the bad variety.

Is Predator camp? Commando, sure and it turns it up to 11 on the homo-eroticism scale, but whilst Predator has a fair amount of machismo it never appears camp. McTiernan makes it much more straight-laced.

Are you kidding? All those big, oiled-up, muscley guys alone in the jungle with their not-at-all fetishistic or Freudian weaponry? (Get a room, guys!) It's camp because it's so po-faced and humourless.

Freudian weaponry...honestly. Would you rather they used small vagina-shaped guns? They are shaped that way for efficiency, not because they enhance the masculinity of the character.

Or perhaps (over)compensate for other, er, personal shortcomings...

(Sometimes a gun is just a gun, huh?)

EDIT: I've never seen "small, vagina-shaped guns" before. Not even in a Cronenberg movie. But I did get a fanny magnet for Christmas!

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 8/8/2012 4:23:20 PM >

(in reply to st3veebee)

Post #: 26017

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 4:01:33 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar all slavishly follow the same Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" template poularised by Star Wars. All feature latent Messiah figures from humble origins; mystical mentors/surrogate father figures; evil surrogate or actual father figures; and 'Threshold Guardians' a-plenty who actively seek to prevent the hero's "call to adventure" - Tusken Raiders, Dementers, Thanators, flying robot squid thingies, etc. (Harry, Ron and Hermione even cleave closely to the Holy Trinity of Luke, Han and Liea.)

So do Pirates of the Caribbean and Mad Max to a lesser degree. Even The Dark Knight Trilogy is a variation on it - clearly Batman's origins are anything but humble, but he is certainly a Messianic/Iconic figure with (dead) daddy issues and Qui-Gon Jinn, sorry, Rha's al Ghul is a twisted mentor/surrogate father figure.

(But only in Star Wars does the hero want to shag his sister! Although the guy in Avatar has a thing about cats...)

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 8/8/2012 4:02:43 PM >

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26018

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 4:20:33 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

I think Zodiac is David Fincher's best film. It's not a "serial killer" movie at all. Not only is it a newspaper flick a la All The President's Men, but it is an anti-serial killer movie where the killer is never caught. I suspect that Fincher is a bit embarrassed now by (the still-excellent) Se7en with its messianic serial killer who is the complete opposite of the sadsack reality and glamorises these hopeless saddos as much as Hannibal Lecter did. I think he made Zodiac as a kind of penance. That's why The Zodiac Killer looks such a dork in his home-made "super-hero" costume.

I also think Alien 3 is criminally underrated - especially the vastly superior Assembly Cut which makes a lot more sense. (It is still hobbled by Too-Many-Cooks Syndrome and an overreliance on "The Idiot Plot" though.) And yes, I am a "Fincher fanboy" too. Wanna make something of it...?

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26019

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 4:27:11 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar all slavishly follow the same Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" template poularised by Star Wars. All feature latent Messiah figures from humble origins; mystical mentors/surrogate father figures; evil surrogate or actual father figures; and 'Threshold Guardians' a-plenty who actively seek to prevent the hero's "call to adventure" - Tusken Raiders, Dementers, Thanators, flying robot squid thingies, etc. (Harry, Ron and Hermione even cleave closely to the Holy Trinity of Luke, Han and Liea.)

So do Pirates of the Caribbean and Mad Max to a lesser degree. Even The Dark Knight Trilogy is a variation on it - clearly Batman's origins are anything but humble, but he is certainly a Messianic/Iconic figure with (dead) daddy issues and Qui-Gon Jinn, sorry, Rha's al Ghul is a twisted mentor/surrogate father figure.

(But only in Star Wars does the hero want to shag his sister! Although the guy in Avatar has a thing about cats...)

That's not an unpopular opinion. That's a cold hard fact that the majority of the people involved with the creation of said franchises have openly acknowledged. The Lord Of The Rings also applies.

_____________________________

"It's amazing how many supposed 'plot holes' turn out to now be plot holes if you'd just pay attention", Me

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26020

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 4:48:05 PM

musht

Posts: 1126
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar all slavishly follow the same Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" template poularised by Star Wars. All feature latent Messiah figures from humble origins; mystical mentors/surrogate father figures; evil surrogate or actual father figures; and 'Threshold Guardians' a-plenty who actively seek to prevent the hero's "call to adventure" - Tusken Raiders, Dementers, Thanators, flying robot squid thingies, etc. (Harry, Ron and Hermione even cleave closely to the Holy Trinity of Luke, Han and Liea.)

So do Pirates of the Caribbean and Mad Max to a lesser degree. Even The Dark Knight Trilogy is a variation on it - clearly Batman's origins are anything but humble, but he is certainly a Messianic/Iconic figure with (dead) daddy issues and Qui-Gon Jinn, sorry, Rha's al Ghul is a twisted mentor/surrogate father figure.

(But only in Star Wars does the hero want to shag his sister! Although the guy in Avatar has a thing about cats...)

That's not an unpopular opinion. That's a cold hard fact that the majority of the people involved with the creation of said franchises have openly acknowledged. The Lord Of The Rings also applies.

That's not even an opinion. Although the way you've phrased makes it sound like Matrix, HP, and Avatar are ripping off Star Wars. I'm sure that's not what you're (because that would be ludicrous) but nonetheless this post confuses me slightly. Maybe there's an unpopular opinion in there somewhere, but I can't find it

_____________________________

"SAVE ME, BARRY!!"

"What the hell are Regionals!?"

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 26021

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 6:01:44 PM

UTB

Posts: 8967
Joined: 30/9/2005

With all the talk of Ghostbusters 3 not having Murray in it, it reminded me:

Is it just me that finds him utterly fucking creepy and lechy in Ghostbusters? I know Venkman is supposed to be a sarcastic ladies man but on rewatching it recently he creeps me the fuck out more than the ghosts.

(in reply to musht)

Post #: 26022

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 6:57:47 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1617
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

With all the talk of Ghostbusters 3 not having Murray in it, it reminded me:

Is it just me that finds him utterly fucking creepy and lechy in Ghostbusters? I know Venkman is supposed to be a sarcastic ladies man but on rewatching it recently he creeps me the fuck out more than the ghosts.

Its just you.

(in reply to UTB)

Post #: 26023

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 8:04:11 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar all slavishly follow the same Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" template poularised by Star Wars. All feature latent Messiah figures from humble origins; mystical mentors/surrogate father figures; evil surrogate or actual father figures; and 'Threshold Guardians' a-plenty who actively seek to prevent the hero's "call to adventure" - Tusken Raiders, Dementers, Thanators, flying robot squid thingies, etc. (Harry, Ron and Hermione even cleave closely to the Holy Trinity of Luke, Han and Liea.)

So do Pirates of the Caribbean and Mad Max to a lesser degree. Even The Dark Knight Trilogy is a variation on it - clearly Batman's origins are anything but humble, but he is certainly a Messianic/Iconic figure with (dead) daddy issues and Qui-Gon Jinn, sorry, Rha's al Ghul is a twisted mentor/surrogate father figure.

(But only in Star Wars does the hero want to shag his sister! Although the guy in Avatar has a thing about cats...)

That's not an unpopular opinion. That's a cold hard fact that the majority of the people involved with the creation of said franchises have openly acknowledged. The Lord Of The Rings also applies.

But unlike Star Wars, The Lord of The Rings predates a lot of Joseph Campbell's theories. Because, as Robert McKee rightly points out, Campbell's observations are as old as storytelling itself. The movies would still be full of "heroes' journeys" and "threshold guardians" whether Campbell had written about them (and Lucas had popularised them) or not cos they've always been there. Campbell merely pointed them out and Star Wars' success turned them into formula then cliche.

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 26024

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 8:10:34 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar all slavishly follow the same Joseph Campbell "Hero's Journey" template poularised by Star Wars. All feature latent Messiah figures from humble origins; mystical mentors/surrogate father figures; evil surrogate or actual father figures; and 'Threshold Guardians' a-plenty who actively seek to prevent the hero's "call to adventure" - Tusken Raiders, Dementers, Thanators, flying robot squid thingies, etc. (Harry, Ron and Hermione even cleave closely to the Holy Trinity of Luke, Han and Liea.)

So do Pirates of the Caribbean and Mad Max to a lesser degree. Even The Dark Knight Trilogy is a variation on it - clearly Batman's origins are anything but humble, but he is certainly a Messianic/Iconic figure with (dead) daddy issues and Qui-Gon Jinn, sorry, Rha's al Ghul is a twisted mentor/surrogate father figure.

(But only in Star Wars does the hero want to shag his sister! Although the guy in Avatar has a thing about cats...)

That's not an unpopular opinion. That's a cold hard fact that the majority of the people involved with the creation of said franchises have openly acknowledged. The Lord Of The Rings also applies.

That's not even an opinion. Although the way you've phrased makes it sound like Matrix, HP, and Avatar are ripping off Star Wars. I'm sure that's not what you're (because that would be ludicrous) but nonetheless this post confuses me slightly. Maybe there's an unpopular opinion in there somewhere, but I can't find it

OK, then. To a greater or lesser degree, I think they are "ripping off" Star Wars - Harry Potter especially. Which is a bit rich considering from Kurosawa to King Arthur, The Wizard of Oz to The Searchers, Leni Riefenstahl to The Dambusters, you'd be hard-pressed to find something which the always culturally and anthropologically magpie George Lucas didn't shamelessly, er, homage with Star Wars. And to his credit, he's always openly acknowledged it. That was kinda the point - forging a modern myth and all that.

And he's still doing it to this day. I saw an episode of Clone Wars recently set on a banking planet where the buildings were all green. Like on a dollar bill. There was even a Seven Samurai episode! And badass bounty hunter, Cad Bane, is clearly "inspired" by Lee Van Cleef. (Not value judgements, BTW, merely observations. Everybody does it whether consciously or unconsciously. Everything influences everything else. Everything's connected, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!)

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 8/8/2012 8:40:40 PM >

(in reply to musht)

Post #: 26025

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 9:01:52 PM

UTB

Posts: 8967
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

With all the talk of Ghostbusters 3 not having Murray in it, it reminded me:

Is it just me that finds him utterly fucking creepy and lechy in Ghostbusters? I know Venkman is supposed to be a sarcastic ladies man but on rewatching it recently he creeps me the fuck out more than the ghosts.

Its just you.

Its ok, as I understand it everyone else is Bill Murray-blind.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 26026

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 9:07:19 PM

homersimpson_esq

Posts: 19962
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
I suspect that Fincher is a bit embarrassed now by (the still-excellent) Se7en

Such an embarrassment.

If I had directed Se7en, I'd be embarrassed, so I can see your point.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.

TREK WARS

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26027

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 9:09:06 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14550
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

With all the talk of Ghostbusters 3 not having Murray in it, it reminded me:

Is it just me that finds him utterly fucking creepy and lechy in Ghostbusters? I know Venkman is supposed to be a sarcastic ladies man but on rewatching it recently he creeps me the fuck out more than the ghosts.

He's not lecherous, though. He totally has a chance to shag Dana/Zuul but doesn't take it, he watches over her and helps her out instead. If he was as creepy as you make him out to be, wouldn't he take advantage of the situation?

Louis is more creepy and lecherous in my opinion, he listens out for Dana coming home every day of the week. Also, Venkman isn't the one who dreams of getting ghost-blowjobs or who sleeps with mood slime in the second film.....

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper
Shifty said it best

(in reply to UTB)

Post #: 26028

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 9:13:50 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

Isn't Pete Venkman the classic example of behaviour which is funny in a movie but would be creepy (and eminently punchable) in reality? Like Katherine Hepburn who is so charming in Bringing Up Baby but would be a nightmare girlfriend/stalker in reality? I don't have a huge problem with this. I'll happily cheer on Batman onscreen, but I wouldn't want some rich, psychotic and tooled-up asshole in a gimp suit running around in real life!

(in reply to UTB)

Post #: 26029

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 9:19:03 PM

chris kilby

Posts: 1189
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
I suspect that Fincher is a bit embarrassed now by (the still-excellent) Se7en

Such an embarrassment.

If I had directed Se7en, I'd be embarrassed, so I can see your point.

Not the film. How it contributed to the (dangerous? irresponsible?) mythologising of sad sack serial killers as Nietzschean supermen - which, of course, is how they like to see themselves. (It's part of the reason Cronenberg rejected the script out of hand.) Zodiac - a true story and the work of a more mature, less flashy director - does seem to go out of its way to counter this. Zodiac and John Doe couldn't be more different.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 8/8/2012 9:36:18 PM >

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)

Post #: 26030

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 9:33:02 PM

UTB

Posts: 8967
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

With all the talk of Ghostbusters 3 not having Murray in it, it reminded me:

Is it just me that finds him utterly fucking creepy and lechy in Ghostbusters? I know Venkman is supposed to be a sarcastic ladies man but on rewatching it recently he creeps me the fuck out more than the ghosts.

He's not lecherous, though. He totally has a chance to shag Dana/Zuul but doesn't take it

Maybe I'm being harsh. I dislike that she goes to the GB's in confidence feeling stupid and ends up with Venkman confessing his love and asking for a kiss.

"Then she through me out of her life. She thought I was a creep" etc etc

(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 26031

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 8/8/2012 10:37:53 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14550
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

With all the talk of Ghostbusters 3 not having Murray in it, it reminded me:

Is it just me that finds him utterly fucking creepy and lechy in Ghostbusters? I know Venkman is supposed to be a sarcastic ladies man but on rewatching it recently he creeps me the fuck out more than the ghosts.

He's not lecherous, though. He totally has a chance to shag Dana/Zuul but doesn't take it

Maybe I'm being harsh. I dislike that she goes to the GB's in confidence feeling stupid and ends up with Venkman confessing his love and asking for a kiss.

"Then she through me out of her life. She thought I was a creep" etc etc

Well, yeah, there is that. Also, he does zap that guy instead of that blonde girl at the start of the film. I guess he is a bit lecherous, but I maintain that most of the guys in the film are either that or creepy. Louis does basically stalk Dana.

The whole film is wrong

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 8/8/2012 10:41:27 PM >

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porntrooper
Shifty said it best

(in reply to UTB)

Post #: 26032

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 10:13:25 AM

st3veebee

Posts: 2354
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: 9303 Lyon Drive

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

Isn't Pete Venkman the classic example of behaviour which is funny in a movie but would be creepy (and eminently punchable) in reality? Like Katherine Hepburn who is so charming in Bringing Up Baby but would be a nightmare girlfriend/stalker in reality? I don't have a huge problem with this. I'll happily cheer on Batman onscreen, but I wouldn't want some rich, psychotic and tooled-up asshole in a gimp suit running around in real life!

Really? I'd love a masked avenger running around kicking the shit out of Skangers in Dublin.

_____________________________

Latest Films:

Two days in New York: 4/5

Prometheus: 3.5/5

Abe Lincoln: VH 3/5

Twin Peaks: FWWM 3.5/5

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26033

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 1:27:14 PM

ElephantBoy

Posts: 7314
Joined: 13/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

Isn't Pete Venkman the classic example of behaviour which is funny in a movie but would be creepy (and eminently punchable) in reality? Like Katherine Hepburn who is so charming in Bringing Up Baby but would be a nightmare girlfriend/stalker in reality? I don't have a huge problem with this. I'll happily cheer on Batman onscreen, but I wouldn't want some rich, psychotic and tooled-up asshole in a gimp suit running around in real life!

Think that seems a bang on post except that Venkman is such a goofy, but smooth talking funny guy than you find him charming because of that.

Zodiac is in my top three Fincher, the other two being Fight Club and Se7en.

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26034

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 2:07:14 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4178
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby
I suspect that Fincher is a bit embarrassed now by (the still-excellent) Se7en

Such an embarrassment.

If I had directed Se7en, I'd be embarrassed, so I can see your point.

Not the film. How it contributed to the (dangerous? irresponsible?) mythologising of sad sack serial killers as Nietzschean supermen - which, of course, is how they like to see themselves. (It's part of the reason Cronenberg rejected the script out of hand.) Zodiac - a true story and the work of a more mature, less flashy director - does seem to go out of its way to counter this. Zodiac and John Doe couldn't be more different.

Seven and Zodiac couldn't be more different but the idea that Fincher was apologising for the former with the latter is ridiculous (and untrue - Fincher has stated many times he still rates his second film both highly and fondly). And I'd be surprised if the script's depiction of serial killers was what put Cronenberg off - he had no qualms about playing a highly intelligent psychiatrist-cum-multiple murderer in Nightbreed a few years earlier.

< Message edited by horribleives -- 9/8/2012 2:08:01 PM >

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to chris kilby)

Post #: 26035

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 2:10:34 PM

Deviation

Posts: 26905
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

John Doe was something a Nietzschean superman? I always saw him a religious, really hateful loon in the City of Hell more than anything else, there was no Hopkins Lecter there, just a really hateful, sadistic bastard. He wasn't far away from the idea of the Zodiac Killer we got in Zodiac.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 9/8/2012 2:11:06 PM >

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to horribleives)

Post #: 26036

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 2:29:19 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4178
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

John Doe was something a Nietzschean superman? I always saw him a religious, really hateful loon in the City of Hell more than anything else, there was no Hopkins Lecter there, just a really hateful, sadistic bastard. He wasn't far away from the idea of the Zodiac Killer we got in Zodiac.

Exactly - his spree's inspired by hatred and disgust and despite the significance he attaches to each killing they're all basically acts of fear and intolerance. I never though Andrew Kevin Walker or Fincher were interested in or making a point about serial killers at all, John Doe is more of an extreme example of how the fundamentalist and the intolerant fail to understand the problems in society.
Sure, he has those movie serial killer characteristics which they rarely have in real life (meticulous planning, killings with meaning etc) but I reckon it's wrong to suggest Fincher was irresponsible for depicting a murderer this way when the presentation of killers wasn't the point of the piece at all.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to Deviation)

Post #: 26037

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 3:56:14 PM

musht

Posts: 1126
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: st3veebee

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

Isn't Pete Venkman the classic example of behaviour which is funny in a movie but would be creepy (and eminently punchable) in reality? Like Katherine Hepburn who is so charming in Bringing Up Baby but would be a nightmare girlfriend/stalker in reality? I don't have a huge problem with this. I'll happily cheer on Batman onscreen, but I wouldn't want some rich, psychotic and tooled-up asshole in a gimp suit running around in real life!

Really? I'd love a masked avenger running around kicking the shit out of Skangers in Dublin.

A rich Irish person doing good and caring about other people more than himself!? That's a larf and a half.

_____________________________

"SAVE ME, BARRY!!"

"What the hell are Regionals!?"

(in reply to st3veebee)

Post #: 26038

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 4:33:32 PM

Cool Breeze

Posts: 1617
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

Joss Whedon isnt a very good writer.

His scripts are mainly just full of quips strung together.

(in reply to musht)

Post #: 26039

RE: YOUR UNPOPULAR OPINION!! - 9/8/2012 4:36:41 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4178
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

They're quite good quips though. Well, I think they are, I've only seen Avengers and Toy Story. Oh hang on, X-Men and Alien:Shite One too but apparently someone else wrote all the rubbish bits in those.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)

Post #: 26040