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RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 19/4/2007 9:54:51 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18002
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

This is a problem Timon that you are going to get with a lot of Superman Returns haters, because it's a comic book movie they think they don't really have to pay too much attention to the film, so they think it's shit.


The opposite is true:

http://www.poobala.com/supermanreturnsstinks.html




It is pretty comprehensive isn't it?  Although they got a few points wrong such as calling Richard White Perry's son rather than nephew.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 19/4/2007 10:02:53 PM >


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Post #: 181
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 20/4/2007 3:40:16 PM   
BatFan


Posts: 2124
Joined: 27/7/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mason Verger

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

This is a problem Timon that you are going to get with a lot of Superman Returns haters, because it's a comic book movie they think they don't really have to pay too much attention to the film, so they think it's shit.


The opposite is true:

http://www.poobala.com/supermanreturnsstinks.html




You found that one review, just to prove a a point that I made two months ago, wrong?

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Post #: 182
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 20/4/2007 4:30:37 PM   
Axel Foley


Posts: 731
Joined: 15/10/2005
I read the first few paragraphs (if you can call them that) and gave up. It’s just someone ranting, because they didn’t get the Superman film they’d imagined and as such proves very little. And Superman flying to Krypton is just a set-up: if he really wanted to he could’ve ignored it and just gone with the idea Superman had disappeared for a few years. At any rate seeing the destruction for himself is also closure to the first chapter of his life.

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Post #: 183
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 11:43:13 AM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.

< Message edited by mrdoom14 -- 21/4/2007 11:54:38 AM >


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Post #: 184
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 11:44:50 AM   
Wilbert


Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/10/2005
From: Dublin: Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a sun there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Sorry, but these really made me laugh.
Supermam!!!

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Post #: 185
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 11:52:03 AM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a sun there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Sorry, but these really made me laugh.
Supermam!!!
Oh, quite the childish bitter banter, this is a forum for civil talk about movies but not a playschool. Grow up. 

< Message edited by mrdoom14 -- 21/4/2007 11:54:00 AM >


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Post #: 186
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 12:36:56 PM   
BobM70


Posts: 958
Joined: 29/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a sun there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Sorry, but these really made me laugh.
Supermam!!!
Oh, quite the childish bitter banter, this is a forum for civil talk about movies but not a playschool. Grow up. 


Ah, come on... It IS really funny, where is your sense of humour, doom? Ok, maybe you miss-typed, but the result is hillarious.

Bob



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Post #: 187
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 12:37:28 PM   
Sutty


Posts: 3552
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: the front row
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wilbert


quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a sun there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Sorry, but these really made me laugh.
Supermam!!!


Is she related to Supergran? Always wondered what happened to the rest of the Super family.

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Post #: 188
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 1:22:29 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.




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Post #: 189
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 1:43:52 PM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.






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Post #: 190
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 1:57:36 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
Sorry, I just don't understand how you could label the outstanding visual effects in the film in such a way. Fair enough, you didn't enjoy the film all that much but there's no question that the effects were pretty dman impressive. They actually took into account the physics of Superman as well, unlike the older films which were a little more cartoonish in that respect. 

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Post #: 191
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 2:19:17 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
the effects just showed us old stuff in new clothes.superman saves a plane(again).superman stops a bank robber(again).superman stops an earthquake(again).everything in this movie was just recycled from the first movie.

i think bryan singer loves the original movie just a little TOO much!

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Post #: 192
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 2:20:34 PM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

the effects just showed us old stuff in new clothes.superman saves a plane(again).superman stops a bank robber(again).superman stops an earthquake(again).everything in this movie was just recycled from the first movie.

i think bryan singer loves the original movie just a little TOO much!
Well said.

< Message edited by mrdoom14 -- 21/4/2007 2:21:03 PM >


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Post #: 193
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 2:33:34 PM   
BatFan


Posts: 2124
Joined: 27/7/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Of course the relationship between Clark and Lois is the same. It's only when Lois discovered Clark was Superman did their relationship change. But right now she just thinks he is that kind, geeky guy in the office.
I don't know what film you were watching, if you think the effects were the same. Of course Lex has an evil plan to rule the world, that's what bad guys do. And you obviously don't know Superman if your complaining about him leaving Lex to live another day. Superman doesn't kill, especially human beings.

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Post #: 194
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 2:36:49 PM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Of course the relationship between Clark and Lois is the same. It's only when Lois discovered Clark was Superman did their relationship change. But right now she just thinks he is that kind, geeky guy in the office.
I don't know what film you were watching, if you think the effects were the same. Of course Lex has an evil plan to rule the world, that's what bad guys do. And you obviously don't know Superman if your complaining about him leaving Lex to live another day. Superman doesn't kill, especially human beings.
I was watching the same film thank you, maybe you were not though. And I did not mean I want Superman to kill lex, Im just getting bored of lex doing the exact same thing. Could Byran Singer not get a new baddie for a change. And if you dont want the relationship beetween Clerk and Louise to stay the same then you are boring.

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Post #: 195
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 2:44:43 PM   
EVILSPEAK


Posts: 3502
Joined: 19/5/2006
From: Hades
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Of course the relationship between Clark and Lois is the same. It's only when Lois discovered Clark was Superman did their relationship change. But right now she just thinks he is that kind, geeky guy in the office.
I don't know what film you were watching, if you think the effects were the same. Of course Lex has an evil plan to rule the world, that's what bad guys do. And you obviously don't know Superman if your complaining about him leaving Lex to live another day. Superman doesn't kill, especially human beings.
I was watching the same film thank you, maybe you were not though. And I did not mean I want Superman to kill lex, Im just getting bored of lex doing the exact same thing. Could Byran Singer not get a new baddie for a change. And if you dont want the relationship beetween Clerk and Louise to stay the same then you are boring.


Who's Clerk and Louise?

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Post #: 196
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 2:47:54 PM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: EVILSPEAK

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Of course the relationship between Clark and Lois is the same. It's only when Lois discovered Clark was Superman did their relationship change. But right now she just thinks he is that kind, geeky guy in the office.
I don't know what film you were watching, if you think the effects were the same. Of course Lex has an evil plan to rule the world, that's what bad guys do. And you obviously don't know Superman if your complaining about him leaving Lex to live another day. Superman doesn't kill, especially human beings.
I was watching the same film thank you, maybe you were not though. And I did not mean I want Superman to kill lex, Im just getting bored of lex doing the exact same thing. Could Byran Singer not get a new baddie for a change. And if you dont want the relationship beetween Clerk and Louise to stay the same then you are boring.


Who's Clerk and Louise?


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Post #: 197
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 3:17:20 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

the effects just showed us old stuff in new clothes.superman saves a plane(again).superman stops a bank robber(again).superman stops an earthquake(again).everything in this movie was just recycled from the first movie.



The criticism was towards the effects themselves, not what they were being used to show. The quality of the visual effects were absolutely amazing, some of the most complex and jaw-dropping that I've ever witnessed. They aren't even comparable to the earlier films.

Also, I don't remember seeing Superman lift a massive chunk of earth out of the ground and throwing it into space in the previous films. Nor did I see him using his multitude of powers to save Metropolis the way he did in Returns. Nor did I ever see him getting shot in the eye.

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Post #: 198
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 3:19:06 PM   
BatFan


Posts: 2124
Joined: 27/7/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Of course the relationship between Clark and Lois is the same. It's only when Lois discovered Clark was Superman did their relationship change. But right now she just thinks he is that kind, geeky guy in the office.
I don't know what film you were watching, if you think the effects were the same. Of course Lex has an evil plan to rule the world, that's what bad guys do. And you obviously don't know Superman if your complaining about him leaving Lex to live another day. Superman doesn't kill, especially human beings.
I was watching the same film thank you, maybe you were not though. And I did not mean I want Superman to kill lex, Im just getting bored of lex doing the exact same thing. Could Byran Singer not get a new baddie for a change. And if you dont want the relationship beetween Clerk and Louise to stay the same then you are boring.


Lex didn't do the same old thing, he wanted the same goal (land) but the ways he did it are different in all the films. In 1 he tried to do it by launching a missile into the San Andreas fault, number 2 he tried to side with Zod to get Australia. In Returns he tried to create his own island with the help of the crystals and kryptonite.
He is getting a new baddie for the next film (current rumours are Metallo and Brainiac). I didn't say I didn't want the relationship to change between CLARK and LOIS (not that hard is it) all I was saying is that right now Lois just thinks of him as that guy. Their friends and that's it. If you want someone to blame for their relationship then blame Richard Lester for putting in that Memory kiss at the end of number 2.

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Post #: 199
RE: Don't waste 2 1/2 hours! - 21/4/2007 3:28:25 PM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

quote:

ORIGINAL: BatFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

I think empire went way over the top giving this one five stars. Its mildly enteraining but despite they excellent idea of supermam having a son there is nothing new realy happening. The relationship beetween clerk and louise is exactly the same, the same old effects, and lex has another evil plan to ruin the world and superman saves the day leaving lex alive to make another film. Old Stuff.


Of course the relationship between Clark and Lois is the same. It's only when Lois discovered Clark was Superman did their relationship change. But right now she just thinks he is that kind, geeky guy in the office.
I don't know what film you were watching, if you think the effects were the same. Of course Lex has an evil plan to rule the world, that's what bad guys do. And you obviously don't know Superman if your complaining about him leaving Lex to live another day. Superman doesn't kill, especially human beings.
I was watching the same film thank you, maybe you were not though. And I did not mean I want Superman to kill lex, Im just getting bored of lex doing the exact same thing. Could Byran Singer not get a new baddie for a change. And if you dont want the relationship beetween Clerk and Louise to stay the same then you are boring.


Lex didn't do the same old thing, he wanted the same goal (land) but the ways he did it are different in all the films. In 1 he tried to do it by launching a missile into the San Andreas fault, number 2 he tried to side with Zod to get Australia. In Returns he tried to create his own island with the help of the crystals and kryptonite.
He may use diffrent strageries but its still the same old lex trying to destroy the world and as always he fails.

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RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 3:30:08 PM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

the effects just showed us old stuff in new clothes.superman saves a plane(again).superman stops a bank robber(again).superman stops an earthquake(again).everything in this movie was just recycled from the first movie.



The criticism was towards the effects themselves, not what they were being used to show. The quality of the visual effects were absolutely amazing, some of the most complex and jaw-dropping that I've ever witnessed. They aren't even comparable to the earlier films.

Also, I don't remember seeing Superman lift a massive chunk of earth out of the ground and throwing it into space in the previous films. Nor did I see him using his multitude of powers to save Metropolis the way he did in Returns. Nor did I ever see him getting shot in the eye.

Thats weird because he gets shot in the eye in superman returns. Where you watching the same film?

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Post #: 201
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 3:33:27 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14
He may use diffrent strageries but its still the same old lex trying to destroy the world and as always he fails.


Were you expecting him to succeed? By your reasoning all the Spider-Man, Batman and pretty much any Holllywood film ever is the exact same. Bad guy loses, good guy wins against the odds etc. etc. It's a tried and tested formula.

The film is entertaining because of these "different strategies", because of how events unfold. You know what's going to happen when you go see Spider-Man 3 for example; the fun part is how they get there.

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Post #: 202
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 3:35:34 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: darth silas

the effects just showed us old stuff in new clothes.superman saves a plane(again).superman stops a bank robber(again).superman stops an earthquake(again).everything in this movie was just recycled from the first movie.



The criticism was towards the effects themselves, not what they were being used to show. The quality of the visual effects were absolutely amazing, some of the most complex and jaw-dropping that I've ever witnessed. They aren't even comparable to the earlier films.

Also, I don't remember seeing Superman lift a massive chunk of earth out of the ground and throwing it into space in the previous films. Nor did I see him using his multitude of powers to save Metropolis the way he did in Returns. Nor did I ever see him getting shot in the eye.

Thats weird because he gets shot in the eye in superman returns. Where you watching the same film?


What?

That's what I said, he gets shot in the eye in Superman Returns. Unlike in the previous films (to my memory, it has been a while since I saw them!) hence the effects show us something different.

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Post #: 203
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 3:55:36 PM   
mrdoom14


Posts: 1774
Joined: 14/10/2006
From: Scotland
quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14
He may use diffrent strageries but its still the same old lex trying to destroy the world and as always he fails.


Were you expecting him to succeed? By your reasoning all the Spider-Man, Batman and pretty much any Holllywood film ever is the exact same. Bad guy loses, good guy wins against the odds etc. etc. It's a tried and tested formula.

The film is entertaining because of these "different strategies", because of how events unfold. You know what's going to happen when you go see Spider-Man 3 for example; the fun part is how they get there.

No I wasnt expecting him to suceed. I think bad guy tries hero wins formuila is excellent for an entertaining movie but I just think that formulia is getting used to many times with Lex in the superman franchise. My point is Byran Singer just used the exact same formuila of the past superman films, he did nothing fresh or new. A poor effort from Singer.

< Message edited by mrdoom14 -- 21/4/2007 4:00:00 PM >


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RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 4:47:46 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14

quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrdoom14
He may use diffrent strageries but its still the same old lex trying to destroy the world and as always he fails.


Were you expecting him to succeed? By your reasoning all the Spider-Man, Batman and pretty much any Holllywood film ever is the exact same. Bad guy loses, good guy wins against the odds etc. etc. It's a tried and tested formula.

The film is entertaining because of these "different strategies", because of how events unfold. You know what's going to happen when you go see Spider-Man 3 for example; the fun part is how they get there.

No I wasnt expecting him to suceed. I think bad guy tries hero wins formuila is excellent for an entertaining movie but I just think that formulia is getting used to many times with Lex in the superman franchise. My point is Byran Singer just used the exact same formuila of the past superman films, he did nothing fresh or new. A poor effort from Singer.
agreed.with so many great storylines and villains from the comic books,singer just rehashes everything weve seen before.why couldnt he have given us darkseid or brainiac for his film? oh yeah,hes getting one of those for the next one but thats no excuse for using lex luthor AGAIN.

the pre begins batman movies,as bad as they were at least used different villains.it would have been so easy for christopher nolan to use the joker in begins but unlike singer,he did his homework,used some villains we havnt seen in a batman movie(ras al ghul and scarecrow) and gave us a fresh,intelligent storyline but didnt forget to add all the action we come to expect.

lets hope singer learns his lesson and the next superman movie will be an effective apology for the mess that was returns

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Post #: 205
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 5:36:51 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
Oh please, the film was hardly a mess. If nothing else, it was an excellently crafted film, beautifully shot and directed.

As for Luthor, I see where you're coming from. However, I don't think its fair to compare it to a character like Batman who, by his very nature, requires a multitude of villains to challenge him in different areas (The Riddler for his detective side, Two Face is his mirror image in many ways, Joker is psychologically the other side of the same coin).

In the Superman films (and comics) it has always been Luthor who is the real threat to Superman - not just physically (i.e. with kryptonite) but also symbolically. In Returns, Luthor describes himself as a Promethean figure, one who is ultimately helping mankind by stealing fire from the gods. In this instance Superman is the god, selfishly using his powers for egotistical means (Luthor's perspective). For all his dastardly acts, Luthor actually thinks he's the hero; he's the saviour of mankind and Superman has undeservedly usurped his rightful place. Luthor wants to be Superman.

I've always seen the two as brothers; Superman is the favoured son, the one who gets the powers, the acclaim, the reputation while Luthor is the disappointment and holds all the bitterness and jealousy inherent in that kind of relationship. Yet he has the luxury of freedom without any of the responsibilites Superman has, who must literally and metaphorically carry the world on his shoulders.

In my opinion (and I'm sure it differs with yours and many other peoples'!), Singer was the only one to create this kind of relationship so effectively. In both the story and the themes it was dealing with, I believe Luthor was a necessity, an essential cog in the film's machinery. A character like Darkseid or Brainiac wouldn't fit, wouldn't present the kind of symbolic challenges necessary for this particular film. Without Luthor, the film has no real depth, no thematic coherence.

For the sequel, I think they need to present a more physical threat for Superman but Luthor will ultimately be the main villain behind events, controlling the situation and creating the threat.

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 206
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 6:15:11 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
quote:

ORIGINAL: furrybastard

Oh please, the film was hardly a mess. If nothing else, it was an excellently crafted film, beautifully shot and directed.

As for Luthor, I see where you're coming from. However, I don't think its fair to compare it to a character like Batman who, by his very nature, requires a multitude of villains to challenge him in different areas (The Riddler for his detective side, Two Face is his mirror image in many ways, Joker is psychologically the other side of the same coin).

In the Superman films (and comics) it has always been Luthor who is the real threat to Superman - not just physically (i.e. with kryptonite) but also symbolically. In Returns, Luthor describes himself as a Promethean figure, one who is ultimately helping mankind by stealing fire from the gods. In this instance Superman is the god, selfishly using his powers for egotistical means (Luthor's perspective). For all his dastardly acts, Luthor actually thinks he's the hero; he's the saviour of mankind and Superman has undeservedly usurped his rightful place. Luthor wants to be Superman.

I've always seen the two as brothers; Superman is the favoured son, the one who gets the powers, the acclaim, the reputation while Luthor is the disappointment and holds all the bitterness and jealousy inherent in that kind of relationship. Yet he has the luxury of freedom without any of the responsibilites Superman has, who must literally and metaphorically carry the world on his shoulders.

In my opinion (and I'm sure it differs with yours and many other peoples'!), Singer was the only one to create this kind of relationship so effectively. In both the story and the themes it was dealing with, I believe Luthor was a necessity, an essential cog in the film's machinery. A character like Darkseid or Brainiac wouldn't fit, wouldn't present the kind of symbolic challenges necessary for this particular film. Without Luthor, the film has no real depth, no thematic coherence.

For the sequel, I think they need to present a more physical threat for Superman but Luthor will ultimately be the main villain behind events, controlling the situation and creating the threat.

i see where you are coming from but we have simply seen too much of luthor in the movies already.yes,he will always be supermans greatest enemy but there are many villains and stories that the movies could have used.rehashing the richard donner original wasnt what i wanted from the new movie.please understand that i am a huge superman fan and as much as i wanted to love returns,i couldnt help but be deeply disappointed.

just a huge amount of this film made no sense.why for example has superman no security system for the fortress of solitude.he KNOWS luthor knows where it is.while supes is off in space,luthor just strolls in and even more amazingly,is able to walk away with crystals which can cause massive damage to the planet.he also is able to gain access to detailed info on how to use them without the control panels even asking for anything like a password.

superman should have spent a lot less time stalking lois lane and more on concentrating on building secure doors for the fortress and installing some security systems for his technology.maybe he should have asked batman to get wayne enterprises to renovate the place!

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to furrybastard)
Post #: 207
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 9:00:09 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
Superman was gone and thought Luthor was in jail. Simple as that. It was only when he got back and learned of Luthor's freedom that he realised the threat. Also, even if there was security there, what good would it have been? He was all the way out tino space so wouldn't have gotten the signal. And he wasn't going to install something that would kill an intruder.

Also, as far as I know the Fortress of Solitude's only real security system is its location, hidden away in the Arctic. And, of course, Super Dog. Don't think that would have been a suitable addition to the film.

Also, the Superman stalking bit is a tired criticism at this point. It's Superman - you know he's not a crazy, weird stalker. He goes to Lois Lane's house to talk to her, realises she's not alone and listens in on a conversation about him, then flies off. You're taking a very cynical, modern view of Hollywood romantic love.

As for contacting Batman about security updates, I'm sure he's learned his lesson and will get right on it!

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 208
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 9:32:09 PM   
darth silas


Posts: 4949
Joined: 1/10/2005
From: My living room
superman:''look bats,i know you keep saying i should install those cctv cameras you use in the batcave,not to mention the special bat force fields,but i swear to god ill get it done any day now''

batman:''SWEAR TO ME!!!''

_____________________________

Star Wars:Episodes 1,2,3,4,5,6.Taken together they are one giant movie and it is the greatest movie EVER.

(in reply to furrybastard)
Post #: 209
RE: Superman Returns - 21/4/2007 9:39:59 PM   
furrybastard

 

Posts: 5174
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Ireland
Come to think of it, I don't know if Superman would trust Batman with the keys! He'd have wild parties with Robin and The Flash. The place would be a mess. 

(in reply to darth silas)
Post #: 210
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