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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 1:53:15 PM   
Tech_Noir

 

Posts: 20199
Joined: 12/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: RuffKut

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tech_Noir

I have VHS originals from 1994, I can easily transfer her them to DVD... in fact I'll do that this sunday.

What would be the point of that exactly?



I don't have a VHS player in the living room (which has the biggest screen on the universe - thanks Dad!)

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Post #: 31
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 1:57:49 PM   
demondemon

 

Posts: 1250
Joined: 4/10/2005
as far as i know the old 4 disc set was new special editions with some awful changes. the 3 disc set they released recently is the 97 cuts. and this will be the original cuts.

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Post #: 32
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 2:28:47 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10597
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: RuffKut

quote:

ORIGINAL: Walkerboy

I have the original trilogy on VHS from the late 80's and may as well just copy those onto DVD - it will cost me less and the quality won't be any worse!

Yes it will - it'll be far worse. Ignoring the fact that you'll have to squeeze a 140 minute movie onto a DVD5 (and thus seriously compromising the picture quality), you'll be going from a 16 year old VHS copy with all the picture and sound issues that that involves. You think that'll be better than going from the master they used for the laserdisc release onto a DVD9?


Do you think it's acceptable to use a lazerdisc print in 2006?
 
I find your acceptence of Lucas' greed and laziness disturbing.
 
Star Wars has made more money for Lucas than you can count to in a lifetime. The most expensive film restorations cost around $5 million. Usually they cost around $250,000 - $2 million. Lucas does not even have to do this. Lowrey Digital have already digitally restored 95% of these films. There is no reason why they can't restored the remaining 5%. It would cost at most a couple of hundred grand. Lucas has more money in his back pocket at any given time.
 
They say this is how Star Wars was shown in 1977. Well Star Wars was not released in 1977 with faded colours and scrathes and dirt all over the prints or mere 2.0 mono sound.
 
The original original Star Wars films are an important part for film history and should be treated and presented as such.

< Message edited by directorscut -- 2/8/2006 2:30:54 PM >


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Post #: 33
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 3:09:10 PM   
RuffKut


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From: The Jundland Wastes...
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Do you think it's acceptable to use a lazerdisc print in 2006?

It's not ideal, but when it's the best version of what it is that you're wanting to release, then sure. After all, the 'original versions' have been included essentially as a special feature on a 2 disc DVD that most places are selling for 12 - a fair price in my books.
 
I would have thought that people who haven't seen these versions before would want them for their curiosity value, rather than nit-picking that Lucas hasn't stumped up the cash to remove every scratch and grain of dirt.
 
quote:

There is no reason why they can't restored the remaining 5%. It would cost at most a couple of hundred grand.

It's not really as simple as just restoring 5% of the movie and 'slotting it back in'. There were dozens and dozens of picture and sound changes in the '97 editions, and more were added for the 2004 releases. It would be a hell of a task to 'undo' all of that.

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Post #: 34
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 3:15:49 PM   
demondemon

 

Posts: 1250
Joined: 4/10/2005
was it really that hard for them to put a set together like the alien quadrilogy? even though it's a few years old it still stands up as the single best dvd set.

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Post #: 35
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 3:22:40 PM   
RuffKut


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From: The Jundland Wastes...
quote:

ORIGINAL: demondemon

was it really that hard for them to put a set together like the alien quadrilogy? even though it's a few years old it still stands up as the single best dvd set.

I think the planned 'Archival' Blu-Ray release next year will possibly eclipse even the Alien Quadrilogy....

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Post #: 36
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 3:24:42 PM   
Walkerboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: demondemon

was it really that hard for them to put a set together like the alien quadrilogy? even though it's a few years old it still stands up as the single best dvd set.


That'll be the set they'll announce just after Christmas......

Have to say though that, apart from Greedo shooting first, and the musical segment in Jedi..... the Special Editions ARE better than the originals.

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Post #: 37
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 3:29:58 PM   
Walkerboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RuffKut

quote:

ORIGINAL: demondemon

was it really that hard for them to put a set together like the alien quadrilogy? even though it's a few years old it still stands up as the single best dvd set.

I think the planned 'Archival' Blu-Ray release next year will possibly eclipse even the Alien Quadrilogy....


George is making a HUGE mistake if he releases it only on blu-ray.
It will ultimately alienate the majority of Star Wars fans unless it's also released on standard DVD.

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Post #: 38
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 3:45:22 PM   
Peter Griffin


Posts: 2866
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Walkerboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: RuffKut

quote:

ORIGINAL: demondemon

was it really that hard for them to put a set together like the alien quadrilogy? even though it's a few years old it still stands up as the single best dvd set.

I think the planned 'Archival' Blu-Ray release next year will possibly eclipse even the Alien Quadrilogy....


George is making a HUGE mistake if he releases it only on blu-ray.
It will ultimately alienate the majority of Star Wars fans unless it's also released on standard DVD.

Agreed.

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Post #: 39
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 3:47:38 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

It's not ideal, but when it's the best version of what it is that you're wanting to release, then sure. After all, the 'original versions' have been included essentially as a special feature on a 2 disc DVD that most places are selling for 12 - a fair price in my books.


I'm afraid our concept of value for money is not on the same path.
 
Fox has recently restored The Black Swan for five million dollars - a film that will ship a small fraction of what the Star Wars films will. It's RRP is $11.99 and is selling on amazon currently for $7.97.
 
The original versions are not a "curiosity" - they are a genuine, important part of cinema and films that made far more money and sold far more tickets than the Special Editions did. The versions that will be presented on DVD are not representative of these films and are thus worthless. DVD is about presenting films as close as possible to their original cinema release within the confines of video. No effort has been made to make these releases so. In terms of colour, sound and quality the Special Editions will be for the most part closer to the Star Wars of 1977 than the "original" versions on DVD.

quote:

It's not really as simple as just restoring 5% of the movie and 'slotting it back in'. There were dozens and dozens of picture and sound changes in the '97 editions, and more were added for the 2004 releases. It would be a hell of a task to 'undo' all of that.


It is exactly as easy as I make it out to be especially since Lucasfilm now has 2k digital masters of the Special Editions.
 
Compared to the time, effort and money Warner has spent restoring Richard Donner's version of Superman II (a film that never made it to cinemas and a film of far, far less value than the Star Wars films) Lucas has it damn easy.

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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 4:09:32 PM   
RuffKut


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From: The Jundland Wastes...
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

It is exactly as easy as I make it out to be especially since Lucasfilm now has 2k digital masters of the Special Editions.

Which would need recapturing, the '5%' of footage would need to be restored and cleaned up, the audio and music would also need touching up, and new cut of the movie would need to be made, decisions would need to be made about what exactly constitutes the 'original version' (seeing as there were many differences in sound and picture between even the 70m and 35m prints of the first movie - let alone the differences between the various VHS releases before the Special Editions), entirely new 2k masters would need to be made for these new versions...and all that's before they even get to creating a DVD of it.
 
Do the changes really ruin your enjoyment of the movies that much anyway? After all, it's still Star Wars, whether the Death Star controls are written in Aurebesh or not, or Han shoots first or not....

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Post #: 41
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 4:34:19 PM   
stuartbannerman


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of course the changes make a difference.
The 1977 version of the films and original version of the sequels are part of film history. and should be presevred by film lovers, not just archivists in Skywalker Ranch.
And DC, what on earth is your connection to Warners. Dont tell me you just like them as you sing their praises too much (and on the subject of Warners...... superman set.....come on guys....you could have at least put decent effort into it . The Alien Quadrilogy still rules as the greatest DVD Box Set of all time(for now)

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Post #: 42
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 5:02:04 PM   
24Dan


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Im not payin for Special Editions twice. And if the original version are gonna look and sound bad then im not wasting my money.

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Post #: 43
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 5:08:14 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

Which would need recapturing, the '5%' of footage would need to be restored and cleaned up, the audio and music would also need touching up, and new cut of the movie would need to be made, decisions would need to be made about what exactly constitutes the 'original version' (seeing as there were many differences in sound and picture between even the 70m and 35m prints of the first movie - let alone the differences between the various VHS releases before the Special Editions), entirely new 2k masters would need to be made for these new versions...and all that's before they even get to creating a DVD of it.


Which is a piece of cake to do considering Lowrey Digital did the entire Star Wars trilogy in a couple of months for the first DVD release.
 
NO EXCUSE.
 
The Star Wars films are now stored digitally. A new master is not required. They down convert straight from the digital files to the DVD. When they created HD-DVDs for the films they will also use the same files. And as George "Digital is Heaven" Lucas proclaims - the digital files can be endlessly and easily changed. Using the Special Edition 2ks as groundwork for the original version makes this the easiest restoration job in the world.
 
quote:

Do the changes really ruin your enjoyment of the movies that much anyway? After all, it's still Star Wars, whether the Death Star controls are written in Aurebesh or not, or Han shoots first or not....

 
It's not about enjoyment. I still love the first three Star Wars films and have watched the DVDs many times. I don't really care about the changes when I watch the DVDs. Personally I think people who say Han shooting not shooting completely changes his character first know absolutely jack about character. This is about being able to watch a big piece of FILM HISTORY in a way that presents its greatness to the best of the medium's abilities. Many films have been colourised, but you know the original black and white verisons - the films that helped build the history of cinema are also available in glorious quality. Ridley Scott does not like the original version of Blade Runner but he is well aware of its place in cinema history and he and Warner are restoring it and releasing it on DVD.
 
The Star Wars films made Lucas the mutli-billionaire he is now. A little TLC for them is not too much to ask. But it seems that Lucas is more interested in bastardising the films again and lashing millions and millions at a 3D (! --- Ted Turner and his Crayolas have nothing on this guy) versions of the new Star Wars sextet.

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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 5:44:03 PM   
RuffKut


Posts: 1360
Joined: 28/9/2005
From: The Jundland Wastes...
quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Which is a piece of cake...


You're so funny. You're never going to believe that it's a tricky time consuming process, so I'll leave it.

quote:

Ridley Scott does not like the original version of Blade Runner but he is well aware of its place in cinema history and he and Warner are restoring it and releasing it on DVD.


But they're not though - they're working on restoring the "Director's Cut" for DVD release later this year and then releasing a 25th Anniversary "Final Cut" version in 2007. Just like Lucas, he considers the 2007 version to be the definative version. From what I understand, the theatrical cut will be included on the 2007 DVD as a bonus in pretty much the same way as Lucas is doing with Star Wars.

quote:

But it seems that Lucas is more interested in bastardising the films again and lashing millions and millions at a 3D (! --- Ted Turner and his Crayolas have nothing on this guy) versions of the new Star Wars sextet.


But that's Lucas' right - he's the writer, originator and (part) director or the series - surely his vision of the saga is what's important. You made a big deal about Donner's cut of Superman II being a great idea - we finally get to see the movie (close to) his original vision - why should Lucas' vision of Star Wars be dismissed?

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Post #: 45
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 5:45:10 PM   
steelydan3

 

Posts: 501
Joined: 28/6/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: stuartbannerman

of course the changes make a difference.
The 1977 version of the films and original version of the sequels are part of film history. and should be presevred by film lovers, not just archivists in Skywalker Ranch.
And DC, what on earth is your connection to Warners. Dont tell me you just like them as you sing their praises too much (and on the subject of Warners...... superman set.....come on guys....you could have at least put decent effort into it . The Alien Quadrilogy still rules as the greatest DVD Box Set of all time(for now)


Agree, the changes do make a difference, not too everybody of course, but I know a lot of people who like the films and don't like the changes.  I can't stand a bad looking CGI Jabba in Star Wars.  You made me think of another thing, stuart.  Why on earth do they feel the need to stop selling these after a while.  Would it be so awful keep producing and selling these DVDs, and not return the films to the archive? 

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Post #: 46
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 6:24:46 PM   
demondemon

 

Posts: 1250
Joined: 4/10/2005
you have to laugh at how bad the 97 effects looks these days. i'm all for cleaning prints up and adding remixed sound as long as i can have the original film with original sound as well in the package. thats why i like the alien set. there really isnt much more you could want.
blade runner and superman 2 are having the same issues. releasing new cuts seperately so people will buy it all. rather than releasing one big box set.

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Post #: 47
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 6:29:08 PM   
James2183


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Just thought it would be a mute point, but you cannot blame Lucas for all of this, those that are. Although Lucas owns the rights to Star Wars and the sequels and prequels, as far as I know, he does not own the rights to Episode IV: A New Hope meaning it's Fox's choice to not tidy it up either. 

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Post #: 48
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 6:34:47 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

You're so funny. You're never going to believe that it's a tricky time consuming process, so I'll leave it.

 
An interesting article you should read: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa120.html
 
Robert Harris - restoration expert ICYDK - believes the work described in the article can be done in 60-90 days (the average Warner restoration takes two years). And Lucas clearly has the resources and money to do it even quicker if he wanted to.
 
quote:

But they're not though - they're working on restoring the "Director's Cut" for DVD release later this year and then releasing a 25th Anniversary "Final Cut" version in 2007. Just like Lucas, he considers the 2007 version to be the definative version. From what I understand, the theatrical cut will be included on the 2007 DVD as a bonus in pretty much the same way as Lucas is doing with Star Wars.

 
I guarantee you the quality of all the cuts of Blade Runner will be in the same ball park. All will be anamorphic and none of them will come from a lazerdisc print. Warner are not cheap when it comes to presenting their treasures.
 
quote:

But that's Lucas' right - he's the writer, originator and (part) director or the series - surely his vision of the saga is what's important. You made a big deal about Donner's cut of Superman II being a great idea - we finally get to see the movie (close to) his original vision - why should Lucas' vision of Star Wars be dismissed?

 
Film-making is not a one man show. What about the people who helped make the scenes that have now been replaced by CGI? Doesn't their work deserve to be acknowledged?
 
No one is denying "Lucas' vision of Star Wars". He can release a version replacing all the stormtroopers with Jar Jar if he wants to. But the original work MUST be respected. Lucas can not be allowed to destroy film history. Film history is bigger than any one man. Whether Lucas likes it or not the original films are just as valid (and probably more so) as his special editions.

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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 2/8/2006 6:41:25 PM   
directorscut


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quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Just thought it would be a mute point, but you cannot blame Lucas for all of this, those that are. Although Lucas owns the rights to Star Wars and the sequels and prequels, as far as I know, he does not own the rights to Episode IV: A New Hope meaning it's Fox's choice to not tidy it up either. 


Lucasfilm have the Star Wars prints in their vaults - not Fox.
 
Fox have immense respect for their catalogue titles and would be nothing but co-operative if Lucas wanted to restore the films again. They afterall put up the money for the 1997 restorations.

< Message edited by directorscut -- 2/8/2006 6:42:13 PM >


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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 3/8/2006 6:12:42 AM   
Gimli The Dwarf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: steelydan3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimli The Dwarf

Not owning any of the original Star Wars films on DVD, I might consider getting these. I just have one question. Each release has the original version and the "Special Edition", Is this the special edition shown in the cinemas in 1997, or the 1997 version plus amended bits from the DVD release of 2004?



The 1997 versions with the amended bits, as far as I'm aware. 


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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 12/8/2006 7:50:13 PM   
Axel Foley


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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartigan

I think its funny how for years people have bitched about the special editions and demanded the original versions on dvd completly as they were and untouched.

Lucas does exactly this and people complain...personally I like the idea of the sound being in 2.0 and not being remastered because then you are watching the ORIGINAL film, the sound hasn't been tampered with to try and sound 5.1 and picture hasn't been enhanced. 5.1 sometimes sounds dodgy when it has been done to a film which was in mono or stereo originally (the previous original trilogy dvds had bad sound devolpment) and sometimes they have to replace sounds (The good, the bad and the ugly)

Lucas has done what the fans wanted...for once I think it would be nice to show him some appreciation..he didn't really need to release these in the first place, and if you do think "why pay dvd price for a vhs?", then those people should have bought the vhs originals instead of bitching about it for years.


The people want the originals on DVD - in DVD quality.
 
95% of the films are already restored. All Lucas has to do is restore the scenes he has tampered with.

The is NO REASON AT ALL in this day to use a 15 year old lazerdisc print. 
 
This release is just the HEIGHT OF LAZINESS and a case of CASHING THE FAT COW.

Absolutely. I mean the release is being marketed as the first time the original theatrical cuts have been released on DVD, yet they are in actual fact classed as being "extras". Most people that wanted them already have ripped copies of the laserdiscs.

Ruffkut, there are plenty of people, myself included who do not like the re-issues. It's still Star Wars, but somehow the excietment is dulled by having crappy CGI sequences, depicting Jawas being thrown about by dewbacks or Si Snootles dnacing about. Then of course there is the alway controversial business about having Han shoot second, which alters his characrter arc, from one that you're initially unsure that you can trust to the finales hero. And don't get me started on Anakin, the change for the 2004 DVDs is one of the daftest imaginable, it just looks entirely alien.

They're back by popular demand, but not in any condition that they are worth owning over the various rips that can be found or indeed my old VHS copies.

To be honest I agree to an extent with some of the points made. Lucas can do what he wants with his films, as frankly there are plenty of other great movies out there that I've yet to see, and would rather spend my time on than watching sub-standard versions of films that I once cherished.

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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 13/8/2006 9:47:07 AM   
chrisrus

 

Posts: 464
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From: Garstang
anyone know if a boxset of the 3 films will be released

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Post #: 53
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 14/8/2006 10:42:42 PM   
Isaac Newton


Posts: 302
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I will definitely get these as I don't have the dvd box set which is availible now. Can someone tell me when they will stop selling these if they are a limited edition?

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RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 15/8/2006 1:01:25 AM   
RockyWilcox


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Why couldn't Lucas release both editions at the same time? Consumers can choose which ones they want, and if they choose to buy both, well, at least that is their choice. It was the most anticiated franchise to hit DVD at the time, and they knew that the hardcores and passives would buy the set.

It's okay saying that Lucas is giving the fans what they want, but it's only after he has shifted god knows how many boxsets of the first release. He's taking every person interested in owning the original untouched trilogy hostage. And no-one can say he didn't realise that people wanted the original untouched films.

He could have had both versions on one disk like the Alien Quadrilogy DVDs. Ahh, the Alien Quadrilogy set, another franchise that caused an uproar when the Legacy boxset had already been released.

It's all about making money and forcing the buyers to splash that cash.


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Post #: 55
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 16/8/2006 6:47:25 PM   
Brock

 

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I've been trawling through different DVD sites trying to find a good deal on a pre-order for the Original Trilogy, but it seems most places sticking firm at 15.99 per film. And so far no-one's offering a discount if you buy all three.

The best price I've seen is 12.99 for an Region 1 version of A New Hope at CD-Wow, but for some reason they haven't got ESB or ROTJ listed yet.

Let's hope the major retailers drive each other's prices down nearer the release date. I'm not thrilled at the prospect of  paying over 45 for something I already own  yet again.

< Message edited by Brock -- 16/8/2006 6:52:28 PM >

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Post #: 56
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 17/8/2006 11:18:29 PM   
Dirty Hartigan


Posts: 5890
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RuffKut

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

Do you think it's acceptable to use a lazerdisc print in 2006?


It's not ideal, but when it's the best version of what it is that you're wanting to release, then sure.


I think the guys at the Digital Bits successfully called BS on the idea that the laserdisc is the only version of the original that Lucasfilm have, Ruffy. Plus, however hard a restoration might be, Lowry Restoration are well up to the job.

I bought the 2004 boxset because the mastering looked good, and hey, it's Star Wars. Lucas had been so adamant for years that the early cuts would not be released again that I, like many others believed they wouldn't come out again. Of course, they come out again. C'est la vie. Had they been restored by Lowry, I might have waited until the price went down, and traded my old set in. Maybe.

But, the thing about this release is that, given that it's merely a transfer from a Laserdisc, Lucasfilm could've given this away with the 2004 boxset. At virtually no cost to themselves. This is what irks people, and heightens people's sense of being ripped off.

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Post #: 57
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 18/8/2006 10:54:29 AM   
Ripper


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Joined: 30/9/2005
From: A Place Called Vertigo
To be honest, short of perhaps releasing an entire bells and whistles packed to the brim version with both the original theatricals and the 2004 editions, Lucas really can't win. If he did release an unaltered 77/80/83 edition, he would get flack from those who would want it in HD with 6 channel surround sound. If he did this, he would also get flack from the those who probably have a bout 5 copies of the same anyway on vhs, laserdisc, a projection reel, and bootleg dvd. Im not saying the guy is above critisism, (if anything Episode I showed us the opposite), but really, the guy has 2 different versions out already (or will in about 3 weeks time), but many people are concerned only with technical aspects, of which there can potentially be many different formats.

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Post #: 58
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 18/8/2006 11:27:52 AM   
stuartbannerman


Posts: 1088
Joined: 30/9/2005
Im happy with the original trilogy being released. If i dont like the quality then ive noone to blame but myself. Its what i asked for and its what i got.

Cheers George. At least i dont have to see the films with awfully rendered CGI sequences now

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Post #: 59
RE: Star Wars Original Theatrical Releases! - 30/8/2006 7:59:49 PM   
Isaac Newton


Posts: 302
Joined: 30/9/2005
I really want to get these as I don't have any other Star Wars DVD releases.

Does anyone know when they will stop selling these?

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Post #: 60
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