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RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 3:44:24 AM

NewBreed7

Posts: 15
Joined: 16/5/2006

Well McAdamsFan, judging by tyler2's description, we'll get no juicy sex scene in the book. The movie may be a different story altogether.. In reading tyler2's description of what she's read it's apparent that there is something compelling about Lorna.. The writer probably doesn't spell it out.. All in all, seems like an intriguing story about the rivalry between two men.. I wish the book sounded more like John Steinbeck's "East of Eden". In that book, the rivalry was between two brothers. Jane Seymour brought the female lead to life in that one. Even though she was a supporting role, she probably had the most memorable scenes in that movie..

(in reply to McAdamsFan)

Post #: 31

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 5:44:00 AM

McAdamsFan

Posts: 14
Joined: 14/5/2006

Oh well. Maybe the movie will fill in the blanks left by the book. In any case, I'm really looking forward to this movie. I just wish they had kept the original title, Five Roundabouts to Heaven. It's poetic and lovely. Marriage sounds so...prosaic. Just like the US title, The Tender Poisoner.

(in reply to NewBreed7)

Post #: 32

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 5:56:26 AM

McAdamsFan

Posts: 14
Joined: 14/5/2006

You finished the book. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much. One final question. Is there actually a dead body by the end of the book, or is there only pychological murder and mayhem?

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 33

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 5:59:15 AM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

There's actually a dead body at the end of the book. Want to ask another question?

(in reply to McAdamsFan)

Post #: 34

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 12:46:18 PM

NewBreed7

Posts: 15
Joined: 16/5/2006

Is the dead body caused by suicide, murder or natural causes? Male or female? Perhaps poor Barty offed himself after plotting so intricately to murder his wife.. When Lorna broke up with him, he was naturally heartbroken.. Was the dramatic high point, someone taking a pistol to their mouth in the name of love?Okay, I'm getting carried away..

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 35

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 3:12:42 PM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

It's suicide, but the plotting is more complicated and ingenious.

(in reply to NewBreed7)

Post #: 36

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 3:24:48 PM

NewBreed7

Posts: 15
Joined: 16/5/2006

More details please..lol. Male or female? Does the wife kill herself after finding out that Barty wanted to kill her or divorce her? Details?? Por favor!!

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 37

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 3:30:04 PM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

Male. Assisted.

< Message edited by tyler2 -- 17/5/2006 3:32:33 PM >

(in reply to NewBreed7)

Post #: 38

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 3:33:53 PM

NewBreed7

Posts: 15
Joined: 16/5/2006

It must be Barty then, because the friend is narrating the book.. That is unless of course, the narration goes from first person to third person.. I hate when books do that.. So, details?? Who dies and how?? I'll still read the book.. C'mon..

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 39

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 3:45:37 PM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

Barty is the one. As a result of the vicious bullying and abuse that he endured at the hands of his schoolmates (which is well documented in the book), he suffers from debilitating claustrophobia, and can't face the thought of spending his life in a prison cell.

That's all I'm going to say, because the whole beauty of this book is the ingenious plotting. And the last line, uttered by the friend, is chilling. The men in this book are really sickos.

(in reply to NewBreed7)

Post #: 40

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 3:57:02 PM

NewBreed7

Posts: 15
Joined: 16/5/2006

Hmm, thanks.. I can't wait to read it.. I'd say plotting to kill your wife qualifies you as a "sicko";-)

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 41

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 7:25:18 PM

McAdamsFan

Posts: 14
Joined: 14/5/2006

Oh, I get it. Barty commits 'suicide' with a little assist from his dear 'friend.' Nice. And what about Lorna? Does she hook up with the friend at the end? Do they live unhappily ever after? Did the friend get what he wanted? Was she worth the pain?

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 42

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 7:50:29 PM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: McAdamsFan

Oh, I get it. Barty commits 'suicide' with a little assist from his dear 'friend.' Nice. And what about Lorna? Does she hook up with the friend at the end? Do they live unhappily ever after? Did the friend get what he wanted? Was she worth the pain?

The friend tells us that Lorna is now his beloved wife. She's what he wanted and would do anything to get. But what seemed so worth the trouble was getting what poor Barty wanted so desperately, of besting Barty, if you will (boys will be boys, eh?). The last few paragraphs are chillingly wonderful. I guess you want me to quote them?

(in reply to McAdamsFan)

Post #: 43

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 8:04:25 PM

McAdamsFan

Posts: 14
Joined: 14/5/2006

So I guess Lorna remains an innocent to the end? She obviously wouldn't have married him if she new what a monster he was, what he did to his friend.

"The last few paragraphs are chillingly wonderful. I guess you want me to quote them?"

That would be lovely.

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 44

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 8:52:32 PM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

***MAJOR SPOILERS***

"I wanted no more of the chateau, and knew that I would never visit it again. I had thought that it would hold for me nothing but the tender memories of youthful happiness, that here Bartels and I, and Beatrice, and Ingrid, and all rest of that cheerful crowd could meet within the compass of my mind, and be reunited for an hour or so, and talk and walk and laugh and love as we had done in the days gone by.

"But it didn't work out that way.

"Fear became mixed with the joy, and remorse and self-reproach stretched out their long, strong fingers and smeared the images. I suppose there is always that risk if you revisit a place where you think you can regain for a while your earlier rapture.

"Moreover, one small doubt remained unresolved.

"I thought of it as I made my way along the side of the drive, and to where my car stood, its sidelights unlit, a menace to all on the highway.

"I thought of it as I drove back to Orleans, and again later, when they asked me whether I had enjoyed 'my sentimental journey', as they called it.

"I said I had, of course, though the doubt still nagged at me, and they laughed indulgently. Only Lorna, dear Lorna, my wife, did not laugh, did not even smile; for Lorna had advised me not to go.

"My doubt is, I suppose, a case of scruples.

"It is due to the fact that as I held the tumbler to Bartels' lips, and watched him drink, a thought flashed through my mind which I tried instantly to suppress.

"The thought was: 'He'll never kiss her with those lips again. She's safe now, beyond all risk or doubt; she's mine.'

"I wish the thought had never occurred to me. But it cannot be helped now. I am, as I have indicated, a worldly type, little prone to introspection. The memory of that thought will grow fainter.

"I won Lorna, and what I win I hold, and nothing, not even the shades of Philip Bartels, shall ever come between us: I was always a better man than Bartels, better at everything, including murder."
THE END
Good, eh?

(in reply to McAdamsFan)

Post #: 45

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 9:13:22 PM

NewBreed7

Posts: 15
Joined: 16/5/2006

WOW.. Sounds alot like Agatha Christie's "Curtain".. Same concept, kind of.. Well, it seems that some people have a way of manipulating situations that drive people to kill themselves, which in turn can be construed as murder in some people's eyes.. This was obviously a fierce competition for the narrator. Looks like poor Barty didn't even know he was in a contest.. Golly.. "Better at everything, including murder.." WOW.. Whatever happened to Barty's wife? Did she know he tried to kill her?

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 46

RE: Marriage - 17/5/2006 9:17:49 PM

NewBreed7

Posts: 15
Joined: 16/5/2006

Yeah, but the average movie-goer isn't as savvy as book readers. Sometimes, they can be one and the same (like the three of us), but I think keeping it simple, may be the best thing in marketing the movie.. I can see people now, "What a stupid title!" "What the hell is a roundabout?" "Why'd they give the movie such a long name??". I think "Marriage" is a silly title too and I hope it's changed to something else, but I don't think "Five Roundabouts To Heaven" will help sell the movie.. I don't want to sound elitist, but it's over the head of most movie-goers..

(in reply to McAdamsFan)

Post #: 47

RE: Marriage - 18/5/2006 1:14:46 AM

McAdamsFan

Posts: 14
Joined: 14/5/2006

Yes, that was very good. Spine-tingling, and not in a nice way. What a sicko.

Who is Ingrid? And do you think the film will end exactly where the book ended, or do you think it'll explore their relationship post-murder? I hope so. At least give Lorna something to do other than look fetching.

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 48

RE: Marriage - 18/5/2006 1:38:56 AM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

BTW, the two guys in the book are not as old as Chris and Pierce. I think they're meant to be in their early 40s, which today = Brad Pitt and Johnny Depp. Just thought I'd mention that since, if Rach isn't going to transform herself into an older looking woman, there's going to be a whole other thing going on in the movie that isn't going on in the book.

Ingrid was Peter's girlfriend when they were 18-21 and a group of them, including his friend Barty were staying at a chateau in France in the summer to learn French.

I don't know where they're going to end it, but if they're following Hitchockian style, there'll be a short coda at the end during which we'll probably find out that Lorna knew all the time what Peter was up to. Maybe that's why she fell for him enough to marry him -- the fact that he's not only dishy and very self-confident (unlike Barty), but also that he wanted her that badly. Barty wanted her badly, but he didn't put up a fight when she wanted to end it.

As I said, both female characters are under-written in the novel, yet the author leaves plenty of opportunity to flesh them out, and I assume the screenwriters did just that. Lorna needs to BE in love in order to truly love a man. Beatrice thinks that she isn't capable of feeling love until she falls for another of their friends. Barty won't face the fact that what he feels for Lorna includes a large portion of lust. Etc.

(in reply to McAdamsFan)

Post #: 49

RE: Marriage - 18/5/2006 1:54:10 AM

McAdamsFan

Posts: 14
Joined: 14/5/2006

I don't mind at all if the movie takes liberties with their ages. In fact, I like it that there's such an age difference between Rachel and Pierce and Chris. The 'other woman' is often younger anyways.

"Maybe that's why she fell for him enough to marry him -- the fact that he's not only dishy and very self-confident (unlike Barty), but also that he wanted her that badly. Barty wanted her badly, but he didn't put up a fight when she wanted to end it."

That would be good. Show that Lorna isn't all innocence, that she implicitly approved of Peter's behaviour. Her hand's not clean either.

(in reply to tyler2)

Post #: 50

RE: Marriage - 18/5/2006 3:27:48 AM

tyler2

Posts: 21
Joined: 14/5/2006

"Show that Lorna isn't all innocence, that she implicitly approved of Peter's behaviour."

Not so much approved of it as she was turned on by the passion that motivated it. This approach would give Rachel the complicated character that she wants to play.

(in reply to McAdamsFan)

Post #: 51