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RE: temporal prime directive - 4/5/2006 3:10:15 PM

Wolfebets

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/5/2006

The only real problem with Enterprise for us in our family is when they insisted on treating the series like a running soap opera. With the exception of occasional 2-parters, each episode should be watchable as a stand alone show. It got old watching the same crummy story about the same villans for 10 shows in a row, and then if you had to work or missed a few episodes, you ended up not caring about missing it a few more times. (DS9 kinda did this toward the end, but we were already invested in the show for years by then.)

Like the other Trek shows (as well as other successful shows like Charmed and Buffy/Angel) there's always a general timeline of events and character developements that grew and changed the show. We like that, however, in Enterprise, the end of the last season (and the previous one some as well) every episode seemed to have an implied "to be continued" at the end. God...just finish the friggin story line and go on with the next character exploration already! I loved Enterprise in the first season and just didn't give a rip by the third.

My hubby and I are die-hard ST fans, my hubby preferring TOS and I preferring TNG, Voy, with DS9 being my favorite. I sure wish I could see more of Sisko and Janeway.

My comment about Data...we HATE the Nemesis movie and refuse to buy it. How retarded to kill off Data so unnecessarily! It's even more goofy than the stupid decision made in Generations for Picard (who could've chosen ANY time to return with Kirk) to choose a nick-of-time scenario where he wastes the life of Kirk unnecessarily. Killing Data was stupid and the son of Picard was an unscary bone-head. My God....do something with the Data story line and include some other ST actors from other series in it. You also need someone from the Star Trek World past to have a hand in this. JJAbrams may be great and all, but who will be on staff to help steer him to a ST fan pleasing storyline? I vote for Jonathon Frakes.

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Post #: 61

RE: temporal prime directive - 4/5/2006 11:57:33 PM

Peter A. Quinn

Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!

I don't mean to sound cold, folks, but Data is a robot. He was never alive, therefore, they can build another one(like the one in Nemesis, yeah?). I found it a bit hard to care when Data was blown up at the end of Nemesis, it didn't seem logical. But I did like him as a character, and would have preferred it if they'd gotten rid of the intolerably smug Jonathan Frakes(who can't do commentary for s**t), or boring old Gates("Gates"?What cruel parents!)McFadden. Or both. I think they should get a whole new Enterprise crew, with really good actors, and a decent script(First Contact and Insurrection were bloody awful!). Foregoing all that, maybe they could drop the Star Trek idea altogether, and do something(gasp!)original...

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Post #: 62

RE: More than a robot! - 5/5/2006 5:34:12 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

Sorry, but Data was more than a robot. In "The Measure Of A Man" Data was ruled to be an artificial life form. As such, he was alive, (if only artificially). His physical construction can be rebuilt, it just requires a schematic and the materials. But the software that controlled his actions? That can't be replaced, because it incorporated artificial intelligence that actually "learned" from its experience, accepted inputs, added new subroutines, altered its objectives, assigned itself new goals, varied its application of logic. And that's without the emotion chip!

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Post #: 63

RE: temporal prime directive - 5/5/2006 6:18:29 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

I agree that each episode, for the most part, should have a stand alone quality. At least in the beginning. With Enterprise, it got to the point that I missed too many episodes, and lost track of what was happening. The main duty the various episides have to one another, should be that they must not contradict one another, and they should provide something solid for future episodes to be built on. If one writer asserts that two characters have a certain relationship, a future episode by a different writer can't assert that it doesn't exist and never did. Star Trek's canon was running into this in so many ways. An example... In the old series episode, "Space Seed" with Ricardo Montalban playing Khan, Scotty referred to something called the "Eugenics Wars". That should have taken place after Starfleet was created, which would be in Archer's timeline. We should have seen the social and political environment they were in heading in that direction, with genetic engineering being tried. I saw no indication that any such developments were on the horizon, or even possible. Also, in ST2:The Wrath of 'Khan when Chekhov realizes he's on Seti Alpha 6 instead of Seti Alpha 5, he grabs Capt. Terrell and they try to escape the shack before Khan returns.. First, Checkhov wasn't in Space Seed. He joined the crew somewhat later, so he wouldn't have known the sigificance of the name Botany Bay. Also, even if he did, why wouldn't they have simply told the Reliant to beam them out of there immediately from where they were? Why go stumbling out into a blinding storm?

I didn't even bother to watch the finale of Enterprise, where I'm told it all turned out to be a holodeck program being run by Troi and Riker. (But I'll be kind and give Brannon Braga and Rick Berman the benefit of the doubt, here. There is only one advantage to winding up the storyline that way, and that is that this doesn't become part of Star Trek canon... Any future series can indeed be written as though none of this crap ever happened, because in the universe of Star Trek.. it didn't.)

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Post #: 64

RE: More than a robot! - 5/5/2006 8:18:03 AM

Peter A. Quinn

Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!

Awwww...You really miss Data, don't you?

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Post #: 65

star trek 11 - 5/5/2006 10:56:15 AM

icedude89

Posts: 1
Joined: 5/5/2006

i dont want it to be kink n spock because nobody would want this to end up like star wars in goin back to the beginning as we saw in nemisis some of the crew left data riker troi and crusher they could replace them with people from voyager like paris kim tovok if that does happen please do not bring back wesley crusher plz plz

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Post #: 66

RE: More than a robot! - 6/5/2006 2:34:04 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

Yes, I have to say, I do miss Data. If any character should have been preserved, it's him.

Not just from a storyline perspective, either. Data was one of the most popular characters. I know fans who hate Wesley, and have only contempt for Riker and Troi. Most fans liked Data, Brent Spiner, as an actor, has had the best post-Star Trek career, and Data's return, if done in a credible manner, would almost guarantee success at the box office.

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Post #: 67

RE: More than a robot! - 6/5/2006 2:49:25 AM

Peter A. Quinn

Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!

Data was a good character, to be sure, but as the series progressed, the creators seemed more and more to indulge Spiner's wish to act more human(like singing those bloody show tunes!). The real challenge would have been to keep him as he was initiallly, and still make us care for him. I can't believe Spiner released an album! Continuing the tradition started by Shatner and Nimoy, I guess. And always beware when an actor gets a story credit...

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Post #: 68

RE: More than a robot! - 6/5/2006 4:34:29 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

You make a valid point. And there's always the possibility that the reason they killed off Data like that was that perhaps Spiner just didn't want to do it anymore. Any of it. He did, after all, play 3 different roles in Star Trek, and one time, played all of them in the same episode.

That's why I think the character should be left behind, and the new film should concentrate on taking the story forward from the end of DS9 and Voyager, and head into the the Gamma quadrant, with an all new main cast.

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Post #: 69

RE: More than a robot! - 6/5/2006 8:23:14 AM

Peter A. Quinn

Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!

Right on, Organian, that's what I reckon, too. They should do something with an all-new cast, with really kick-arse actors-could you imagine Mickey Rourke as a battle hardened Starship Captain? He'd scare the Klingons off just by lookin' at 'em! Top-notch directors would help, too...no more Jonathan Frakes, please(Thunderbirds were not "go"...)!

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Post #: 70

RE: Federation Time Ship - 6/5/2006 12:34:10 PM

GrandlaughTheGay

Posts: 11
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Cwmbran, Gwent

I think it should show all the orginal series characters in a new light. For example, Kirk could be a cross-dressing shizophrenic. Spock could have bi-polar disorder and Bones could be anorexic.

Maybe even Uhura could pop up as a dominatrix.

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Post #: 71

No Timeline Gaps! - 6/5/2006 11:28:36 PM

musicmatt87

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/5/2006

Ok people. We need to move this franchise FORWARD both on the timeline and in concept. We saw the devastating effects of what happened when incompetant producers try to fill in "timeline gaps" and re-write already presumed trek history. AKA Enterprise. That brought in the Borg....how retard since the movie star trek First Contact was, the "FIRST CONTACT" any federation vessel had with them. Also, The Ferengi....totally wrong era there guys. And last but not least that stupid holodeck ending that put a black vail over an already decomposed spinoff. JJ Abrams is indeed in the minority as a TOS fan. Many ppl in this day and age can identify better with the newer spinoffs. We need this new movie to be set right after Voyagers return home with a newly promoted Admiral Janeway at the helm somehow with new blood to go along with it....whatever we do. We cannot allow Star Trek to have more GAPS in its timeline because that just paves the way for Gail Berman at Paramount to ruin the series by trying to go backwards insted of forward. Lets pave the way for a new syndicated show with this movie and for god sakes .....STAY TRUE TO THE SERIES!....no inconsistancies, it has to be believable....because as you can see, star trek fans are the most anal and dedicated of any fan collective

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Post #: 72

RE: More than a robot! - 7/5/2006 12:32:31 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

I don't think I can see Mickey Rourke in the role, Quinn. I don't think any character hemight play would make through the academy. They appear to be following a path of increased diversity. A white American man, then a white Brit pretending to be a Frenchman, then a black American man, then a white American woman. Unfortunately, I'm unfamiliar with the current crop of European actors who would be suited. (I used to be, when I lived in London, 35 years ago. But I live in Miami, Florida now.) I have to say, I like the idea of Queen Latifah as a sufficiently original, and definitely kick-arse, Starship captain.

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Post #: 73

RE: More than a robot! - 7/5/2006 1:04:31 AM

Peter A. Quinn

Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!

Well, yes, that's all very PC, Organian, but I was speaking hypothetically...and what would be wrong with an Australian actor to play a starship captain, mate? We're not all Europeans on the forum, chief. You take this Star Trek lark a bit too seriously, methinks...

< Message edited by Peter A. Quinn -- 7/5/2006 2:04:52 AM >

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Post #: 74

No Timeline Gaps! - 7/5/2006 2:44:05 AM

musicmatt87

Posts: 2
Joined: 6/5/2006

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Post #: 75

RE: More than a robot! - 7/5/2006 4:43:59 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

I could see an Australian actor, but probably not an Australian character. Sorry, but when I think of Aussie characters, I get stuck on Paul Hogan. I just haven't seen anybody in the Trek universe come close to that.

Actors: Maybe Bryan Brown, if he isn't too old.

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Post #: 76

RE: More than a robot! - 7/5/2006 6:38:58 AM

Peter A. Quinn

Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!

Hey, that's alright, mate, I can't think of any American actors who could take a part in any new Star Trek venture. Gee, maybe Adam Sandler or Pauly Shore-if they're not too old, that is...No, wait! What about George W.Bush? He's a fantastic actor!

< Message edited by Peter A. Quinn -- 7/5/2006 6:47:39 AM >

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Post #: 77

RE: More than a robot! - 8/5/2006 2:57:53 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

I can't stand Sandler. He tries to be funny, and starts by doing stupid stuff, but by then I'm afraid he's thrown himself into the part too much and can't find his way.

Maybe Hugo Weaving, or Sean Bean.

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Post #: 78

RE: More than a robot! - 8/5/2006 3:02:55 AM

Peter A. Quinn

Posts: 7320
Joined: 11/2/2006
From: Deep, deep, DEEP undercover!

I see the American grasp of irony is alive and well...

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Post #: 79

RE: More than a robot! - 8/5/2006 3:54:26 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

You mustn't confuse me with the average American, Peter. I lived in London 5 years, and Madrid another 5. I speak Spanish and some French. And I can find both Iraq and Israel on a map.

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Post #: 80

RE: No Timeline Gaps! - 8/5/2006 3:56:14 PM

Brett Vallis

Posts: 1
Joined: 21/2/2006

To be fair to First Contact, I think you'll find it was the first contact of Earth with the rest of the warp capable universe, not the first contact with the borg, which presumably happened in TNG series before the first contact film.

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Post #: 81

RE: No Timeline Gaps! - 9/5/2006 3:55:26 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

I was wondering what Musicmatte87 was getting at... The premise of ST:First Contact was that the Borg wanted to prevent the Federation from coming into existence, so they went back in time to prevent the first contact earth had openly with another interplanetary civilization, namely, the Vulcan ship that picked up the Phoenix's warp signature. And if they could have destroyed the Phoenix before it engaged warp engines, they would have succeeded. The only person from that timeframe of earth who managed to see a Borg was Alfre Woodard's character. The actual first contact with the Borg was when Q sent the Enterprise spinning off clear into another quadrant. Until then, the Borg didn't know earth existed, either.

Now, if only I knew what was meant by "Ferengi... wrong era"?

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Post #: 82

My thoughts on the new star trek movie for 2008 - 9/5/2006 6:53:18 AM

angeleus

Posts: 1
Joined: 9/5/2006

well first off i'd like to say it's about time a new movie was made,i can never get enough of star trek.now i would like to say to make a star trek movie about kirk and spocks early days would not only be a mistake but i doubt it will do very well in the box office.I mean lets face the facts who would you get to play william shatner and leonard nemoys charaters as good as they could?my answer.....nobody other than the original actors could do the parts justice.anyone else would be a joke and lets face it,they can't play the parts themselves,they're not young anymore.In my opinion it's a bad idea.Why not let the voyager crew in on the movies?What about a real twist,here's a thought.A star trek movie i've been hoping would someday come to pass.A battle between starfleet command and the alternate universe starfleet command,with the crew of voyager.I think it could possible make for one of the greatest battle scenes in star trek yet.Imagine,starfleet against starfleet.talk about a challange for both sides,their weaponry would be equal which would make for a pretty long battle.Maybe the borg could make an appearance,maybe the borg allied with the alternate universe which brought the alternate starfleet to earth to do what they couldn't do.defeat starfleet command at assimilate earth.just a few of my personal ideas.All i know is there is a good chance the movie about spock and kirks starfleet academy days could end up the way star trek-enterprise did.Don't get me wrong,the show had potential,the actors also but the writers just didn't put enough thought into the episodes.which in my opinion is why the show bombed,and why the new movie will too.I don't know if the writers for star trek are just burned out or tired of writing star trek material,but i think it's time for a change before they ruin the star trek name forever.Make a star trek movie that will really live up to Gene Rodenberry's name.Put his spark back into the movie.Make him proud!

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Post #: 83

RE: My thoughts on the new star trek movie for 2008 - 10/5/2006 3:16:40 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

I don't think a battle between Starfleet and the alternate universe Starfleet would work. For a start, in the alternate universe, starfleet doesn't appear to be as formidable a force. In the DS9 alternate universe, they couldn't even handle the Bajorans. (In fact, for the sake of keeping them separate, let's call the alternate universe group, "Starvefleet.") The idea of the Borg "bringing them in" ... that would mean allying with Starvefleet, and that's not how the Borg works. They don't ally with anyone, they assimilate. The Borg have a need to be in control of the collective mind, they would never stand for working with an independent fleet free to make their own decisions. And that's if the Borg even exist in the alternate universe. There's also the small matter of how the Starvefleet ships cross over to confront Starfleet. It was only individuals crossing over before, through a transporter or something.

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Post #: 84

THE FUTURE IS IN THE FUTURE - 10/5/2006 4:42:18 PM

andrewz95

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/5/2006

let's see some facts: DS9 as a space soap opera was boring, Enterprise like the new star wars movies, didnt have much success: then tell me why why why going back to kirk and spock ??? why ???
Do you really want to destroy this franchise ?
TNG and Voyager were the best star trek ever because they had incredible technologies on hand. Star Fleet Accademy would be another boring DS9 kind of flop. Star Trek Nemesis was slow paced, didnt have much action, didnt have amazing battles, it didnt involved earth... so as i have been saying for the past 8 years, star trek needs to move forward, maybe with a star trek time travel (which as a tv series could bring back for a whole season the voyager, tng, ds9 or even young kirk/spock characters). BUT it needs to be in the future, on a format like invasion, 24 or lost, a whole movie and a whole serie full of amazing action, new tech tricks, the borg, new enemies etc.
Going back would not work. The Time travel stories, especially when the characters are brought back to our earth days, were the most watched indeed. Even stargate sg1 was able to reinvent itself with series 9, so what are they waiting for ? JJ Abrams needs to understand that yes we would like to see our loved ones back, but we also need to move forward with new special FXs and new adrenaline plots full of surprises. Is that difficult to understand ?

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Post #: 85

RE: THE FUTURE IS IN THE FUTURE - 11/5/2006 1:10:00 AM

Organian

Posts: 19
Joined: 28/4/2006
From: Miami, Florida

I couldn't disagree more.

I always thought that the mobile emitter, while a neat bit of technology from the 29th century that allowed the EMH to get off the holodeck, was fatally flawed as a plot device.

If you were from the 29th century and had timetravel capability, and you'd left this bit of technology back there... wouldn't you dispatch a team to go back and retrieve or disable it?

If you took the dangers of temporal distortion seriously, how could you leave that item back there? How could you allow the possibility of it being captured or stolen, and all that such an event could usher in? Think of all the episodic events where Starfleet was infiltrated.. a well-placed holographic intruder who could go anywhere, with the ability to become solid at will could have changed the outcome.

The only way I see that being viable, would be maybe.. (Call the 29th century Starfleet Starfleet 29, okay?)
If Starfleet 29 was content to let Voyager use the mobile emitter whilst they were in the Delta Quadrant... because they aren't, after all, affecting anything in the Alpha Quadrant, and sending someone from the 29th century chasing after it could create more problems than it would solve.

But Voyager, upon its return, dutifully surrendered the device to Starfleet... and Section 31 promptly seized control of it and began rewriting history. Starfleet 29 has to take action now, so they send a 29th century officer or two - perhaps holograms themselves, so there's no risk of being captured - to go chase after him and find the damn thing. And finding it isn't so easy, because in the 29th centiry, all they have to go on are 500-year-old reports from Section 31. And a lot of those are full of exaggerations, falsified details and outright lies. The agent goes back in time, and discovers that things aren't as they appear in the old reports at all. They have great technology, but can't use it back then.

What do you think?

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Post #: 86

I ghostwrote for Trek 1987/designed Mars rovers - 12/5/2006 10:16:05 PM

j3lehane

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/5/2006

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jlehane/ I discovered Life on Mars.There are People,animals,fossils.They are masked by "MILITARY" as opposed to "SCIENTIFIC" Nasa. http://www.myspace.com/jerrylehaneiii There's so much to tell you that won't fit here. I'm 48 in Delaware. Some of my contributions to Trek were DS9,Voyager,The BORG,Ferengi,Cardassians,Bajorans,Ships designs. 3 of the Trek movies I contributed to in capsulized form,no completed scripts.I have many ideas and gave them freely to Gene Roddenberry and thru him reached JPL/Nasa for Mars project. Jerry Lehane III j.lehane@verizon.net

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Post #: 87

RE: I ghostwrote for Trek 1987/designed Mars rovers - 16/5/2006 1:07:37 PM

anakin solo

Posts: 1036
Joined: 28/2/2006
From: in the force

I like the idea of a mackenzie calhoun & crew on the excaliber those are some great stories in those books to be made into a film or maybe a captain riker film just because i want to see what class of ship the titan is.

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Post #: 88

RE: I ghostwrote for Trek 1987/designed Mars rovers - 16/5/2006 9:21:29 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

They should have a crew of young Starfleet grads going on a tour of a new warship - and then the ship being hijacked by enemy forces and them all shooting off into space together where they do battle onship/ on planet - then finally the grads take control of the ship and the last 15 mins is a supreme space battle involving state of the art ship blasting the shit out of everything that moves and returning triumphantly home! Loads of action - fresh faces - and throw in a bit of REAL tragedy like when Shatner's son gets killed or when Spock bought it, just to keep it emotional!

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Post #: 89

RE: I want Sixties' Design..... - 30/5/2006 1:02:54 PM

dholleyuk

Posts: 63
Joined: 25/5/2006
From: Yorkshire

I must say what a nice thing to hear, the 60's Star Trek started it all off, Gene knew some things about creating a story / series that works, JJ must understand that to make a great Star Trek is first and foremost to understand what Star Trek is. Bring back the mini skirt and Gorn!!!!

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Post #: 90