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Ender's Game - 24/10/2013 5:10:47 PM   
Empire Admin

 

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Post #: 1
RE: Ender's Game - 25/10/2013 11:16:39 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys

Maybe this movie's actually bad, but anyway I really don't like to see a movie like this being trashed. Some (few, actually) writers/producers in Hollywood are struggling hard to propose big-budget movies that aren't comic-book adaptations or a sequels, and for these filmmakers a failure could be catastrophical. I think the critics have a big responsability here, they have to promote originality in teen-aimed blockbusters, instead of acting like sheeps praising each and every new Marvel superhero movie.

But generally speaking, i think Empire does a pretty good job in promoting original and daring movies. Their 4/5 rating for The Lone Ranger made me very happy.


So what you're saying here is that the reviewer should give it a pass because it isn't a superhero movie? Riiiight!




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Films watched in 2013
Post #: 2
RE: Ender's Game - 25/10/2013 11:46:41 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54438
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys

Maybe this movie's actually bad, but anyway I really don't like to see a movie like this being trashed. Some (few, actually) writers/producers in Hollywood are struggling hard to propose big-budget movies that aren't comic-book adaptations or a sequels, and for these filmmakers a failure could be catastrophical. I think the critics have a big responsability here, they have to promote originality in teen-aimed blockbusters, instead of acting like sheeps praising each and every new Marvel superhero movie.

But generally speaking, i think Empire does a pretty good job in promoting original and daring movies. Their 4/5 rating for The Lone Ranger made me very happy.


I don't think 'trashed' is a particularly fair characterisation of the review though. There's no joy in a snarky condemnation - it seems to consider what's on screen, gives credit for some of it and laments a lack of nuance given a pretty difficult subject.

That isn't 'trashing' by any definition, surely?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 3
RE: Ender's Game - 25/10/2013 12:42:02 PM   
dseys

 

Posts: 153
Joined: 10/8/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys

Maybe this movie's actually bad, but anyway I really don't like to see a movie like this being trashed. Some (few, actually) writers/producers in Hollywood are struggling hard to propose big-budget movies that aren't comic-book adaptations or a sequels, and for these filmmakers a failure could be catastrophical. I think the critics have a big responsability here, they have to promote originality in teen-aimed blockbusters, instead of acting like sheeps praising each and every new Marvel superhero movie.

But generally speaking, i think Empire does a pretty good job in promoting original and daring movies. Their 4/5 rating for The Lone Ranger made me very happy.


I don't think 'trashed' is a particularly fair characterisation of the review though. There's no joy in a snarky condemnation - it seems to consider what's on screen, gives credit for some of it and laments a lack of nuance given a pretty difficult subject.

That isn't 'trashing' by any definition, surely?


You're absolutely right. Poor choice of words: by "trashing" i meant "giving a bad review", because say what you want but a 2/5 rating is very bad (it's not "fair", it's "poor") and is often associated with really shitty movies.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 4
RE: Ender's Game - 25/10/2013 12:50:46 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54438
Joined: 1/10/2005
I'd probably go bad rather than very bad, but it's a personal thing. I rate out of 10 so this could be anywhere from 4-5 out of 10, which is poor, but I've rated worse.

You can't help your opinion though - an awful lot of people disagreed with the review of Lone Ranger!

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to dseys)
Post #: 5
RE: Ender's Game - 25/10/2013 3:33:07 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
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How on earth is Ender's Game original? It's an adaptation of a novel. It's doing exactly the same thing that the Marvel superhero films are. The only difference is that if Ender's Game is successful it would no doubt bring more money to one of the most repulsive living writers.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 6
RE: Ender's Game - 25/10/2013 5:33:45 PM   
Deviation


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The type of novel it is adapting does differ it from the sort of things Marvel are doing though, for all its failings it is quite a unique and hard thing to adapt.

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ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 7
RE: Ender's Game - 25/10/2013 5:44:00 PM   
rawlinson

 

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Right, but it's still an adaptation. Regardless of the difficulties involved in transferring it to film, it's still taking its ideas from another source, and it shouldn't get a free pass if the film isn't very good simply because the source novel may be more complex.

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 8
RE: Ender's Game - 26/10/2013 12:44:59 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3945
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

If Ender's Game is successful it would no doubt bring more money to one of the most repulsive living writers.


What has Card done to deserve that accusation? I only ask cause I'd never heard of him until yesterday & I didn't sense that much repulsion in his writing whilst watching Ender's Game.

As for the film itself, I thought it was okay; a decent teenage sci fi yarn that has some interesting things to say about the loss of childhood innocence & how technology can manipulate or dissociate kids from reality. There are a few clunky moments (they pretty much all involve Kingsley) and the pacing's a bit off (Ender seems to achieve a remarkable number of promotions in the first 50 minutes), but the film is carried well by Butterfield and it's a definite improvement from Hood after his abysmal stint in the Marvel universe.

3/5

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10. Wreck-it Ralph

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Post #: 9
RE: Ender's Game - 26/10/2013 12:53:24 PM   
garvielloken


Posts: 1189
Joined: 23/10/2011

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwerty Norris


quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

If Ender's Game is successful it would no doubt bring more money to one of the most repulsive living writers.


What has Card done to deserve that accusation?


He loves homophobia. Check out his Wikipedia page to see some of the crap he has spouted over the last 20 years.

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Post #: 10
RE: Ender's Game - 26/10/2013 1:04:46 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3945
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
quote:

ORIGINAL: garvielloken


He loves homophobia. Check out his Wikipedia page to see some of the crap he has spouted over the last 20 years.


A lot of which he seems to be back-tracking this year.

But aye, a lot of crap is putting it mildly.

< Message edited by Qwerty Norris -- 26/10/2013 1:05:12 PM >


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Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

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Post #: 11
RE: Ender's Game - 26/10/2013 1:46:43 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
I'm surprised that this fucking weasel hasn't completely torpedoed his career with this poisonous, narrow minded nonsense.

I wish for nothing but bad things to happen to him.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to Qwerty Norris)
Post #: 12
RE: Ender's Game - 26/10/2013 3:42:34 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Yeah, and in addition to the homophobia there was the recent

"OMG, I'M LIKE TOTALLY KIDDING HONEST! BUT OBAMA WANTS TO TRAIN JOBLESS URBAN MALES TO BE HIS PRIVATE ARMY AND BECOME A DICTATOR!!!! I'M KIDDING THOUGH! HONEST!!!!!"

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Post #: 13
RE: Ender's Game - 26/10/2013 4:33:19 PM   
R W

 

Posts: 321
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If you’ve seen the previews for the long-awaited adaptation of Orson Scott Card’s science-fiction epic novel Ender’s Game, it has been quoted as “Harry Potter meets Star Wars” and certainly would fit into a category of youth genre films like The Hunger Games. However, as well being based on a beloved series of books from the eighties, there has been much controversy over Orson Scott Card’s negative views on gay marriage. Whatever your opinions you have towards the author’s politics, it should not affect the way you approach this ambitious sci-fi flick.

Fifty years after their last war with the alien race called the Formics – also known as the “Buggers” – the International Fleet prepare for the next invasion by training the best young children to find the future candidate to lead the International Fleet. Recruited by Colonel Graff (Harrison Ford), the shy but brilliantly strategic Andrew Ender Wiggin (Asa Butterfield) attends the legendary Battle School where he will begin his training as the military's next great hope for a future alien invasion.

Over the years, the film has long been in development, going through various different filmmakers such as director Wolfgang Petersen as well as a screenplay by the author himself. The book was considered “unfilmable” as not only does it depicts strong violence towards its young protagonists, but for most of the story is told through Ender’s point-of-view.

Adapted for the screen by the director of Tsotsi and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Gavin Hood surprisingly retains a lot of the novel’s ideas of pacifism and militarism, as well as displaying some of the “out there” sci-fi set-pieces such as the beautifully-realised zero-gravity environment of the Battle Room and the Mind Game, which features a CG giant. Whilst staying faithful to the source material with some noticeable changes such as the removal of the Wiggin sibling subplot, the film lacks some of the subtleties as the ideas can get in the way of the character drama.

Although it is heavy with ideas – more so than recent blockbusters – Hood delivers the spectacle as the film is a visually stunning piece with some impressive action sequences, most notably in the Battle Room where we see Ender playing through strategic war games, while the finale is impactful in both an explosive and emotional manner. Despite its 12A certificate, the film has its dark moments that be too intense for young audiences.

The most significant change from book to screen is that the story is told through a number of years so we see the aging of young cadets, but in the film, the story takes place in one year. In the eponymous role of Ender Wiggin, Hugo’s Asa Butterfield gives a compelling icy performance as he convincingly displays his intelligence to outsmart those around him, but he is still a child whose emotions get the better of him. While a lot of the supporting performances are fairly wooden, especially a really hammy New Zealand-accented Ben Kingsley, it is the growly-voiced Harrison Ford as Colonel Graff stands out as both a mentor and enemy who tries to bring out Ender’s full wrath for the upcoming war.

Though the controversial politics of author Orson Scott Card may have an effect on the film’s success, Ender’s Game is this generation’s answer to Paul Verhoeven’s Starship Troopers, as this ambitious but flawed adaptation is both a spectacle and an idea-filled piece of sci-fi.

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Post #: 14
RE: So what? - 26/10/2013 5:42:22 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18011
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius0365

I thought I read this book when I was a teenager, but if I did it must be the only book I've ever read that I can't remember the plot, or even what it was about. But, more to the point, WHO CARES if the author doesn't approve of Gay Marriage? Marriage is a religious sacrament, so by religious rules you can't get married if you're gay. But if you're religious, then you shouldn't be getting married if you're gay, anyway...kind of a catch 22.
All that matters is if the film is good or bad, and all I can say that this film isn't one I'd part with my cash to see, in any case. I'll give it the same rating as Empire did, but since they gave Man of Steel 4 stars, maybe people should go see the movie for themselves.


Personally I found the suggestion that to murder is potentially a good thing and desirable, and (not to spoil the film) but the final repercussions in the book and the apparent celebration of it were pretty morally repugnant to me. These were the political views of Orson Scott Card I personally find unpalatable although his calls for homosexuality to be criminalised overall is also pretty unpleasant and some of his outpourings about Obama in particular are very disturbing particularly his claims Obama was converting urban gangs into a personal militia for his own use. Hopefully these have been toned down in the film.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 26/10/2013 5:56:28 PM >


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RE: So what? - 26/10/2013 6:03:56 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius0365

I thought I read this book when I was a teenager, but if I did it must be the only book I've ever read that I can't remember the plot, or even what it was about. But, more to the point, WHO CARES if the author doesn't approve of Gay Marriage? Marriage is a religious sacrament, so by religious rules you can't get married if you're gay. But if you're religious, then you shouldn't be getting married if you're gay, anyway...kind of a catch 22.



He's done far more than that over the past few decades. He's a vile bigot, claiming that the "dark secret" of homosexuality is a large number of gay people don't really want to be gay and it's just because they were raped as kids. Or that anti-gay laws should be on the books. Or that a gay man can marry a woman so there is no law stopping gay people getting married, and they should be happy with that rather than wanting, you know, to be able to marry someone they love. He's a repulsive little shit. Personally I don't think that has any impact on the quality of a film, but I can certainly sympathise with gay rights groups bringing his bigotry to public attention and organising boycotts of the film. Why should they spend money on a film that will benefit a man who absolutely despises them?
Post #: 16
RE: So what? - 26/10/2013 6:07:52 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18011
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
To be fair though he does seem to despise many other people as well.

In fact quite a little ball of hate overall.

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Post #: 17
RE: Ender's Game - 26/10/2013 11:34:13 PM   
TheMightyBlackout


Posts: 199
Joined: 28/4/2012
From: Oxford, UK
From the heavily-applied morality-of-war dilemmas, through to the wandering vocal stylings of Sir Ben, Ender's Game is a bit of a jumble, and it didn't all fit as neatly as I wanted it to.
I know the idea of the film is to ask difficult questions but I suspect that with more time and less of a partisan approach, the books manage it a lot more pertinently.

Maybe I just hoped I'd be grabbed more firmly by a story with such a successful lineage? Alas, I wasn't.

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Post #: 18
RE: Ender's Game - 27/10/2013 1:12:45 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12121
Joined: 30/9/2005
I was bored to tears. It's so tedious to watch scene after scene just shoot by at lightspeed, without allowing us the chance to get to know about the characters, and then be expected to care about anything that happens to them throughout the movie.

Great special effects, a likeable cast, and a really shocking and thought provoking ending that (as someone who hasn't read the source material) took me by surprise, but in all honesty I was bored to the point that I nearly walked out.

2 stars out of 5, barely. A bit more humour, more focus on character development, and this could have been a really terrific movie for teenagers and young adults (and anyone else of course).

[EDIT]

Also, and I hate to sound like one of those "One-Hit-Empire Hating Wonders" here, but how the hell can a 2 star film be the Film of the Week, when there are other films that have been reviewed the same time that are considered better?

[EDIT 2]
Hmm, well it was showing as Film of the Week, not sure what's going on any more...

< Message edited by Hood_Man -- 28/10/2013 11:09:42 AM >

(in reply to TheMightyBlackout)
Post #: 19
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 11:26:21 AM   
dseys

 

Posts: 153
Joined: 10/8/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius0365

I thought I read this book when I was a teenager, but if I did it must be the only book I've ever read that I can't remember the plot, or even what it was about. But, more to the point, WHO CARES if the author doesn't approve of Gay Marriage? Marriage is a religious sacrament, so by religious rules you can't get married if you're gay. But if you're religious, then you shouldn't be getting married if you're gay, anyway...kind of a catch 22.



He's done far more than that over the past few decades. He's a vile bigot, claiming that the "dark secret" of homosexuality is a large number of gay people don't really want to be gay and it's just because they were raped as kids. Or that anti-gay laws should be on the books. Or that a gay man can marry a woman so there is no law stopping gay people getting married, and they should be happy with that rather than wanting, you know, to be able to marry someone they love. He's a repulsive little shit. Personally I don't think that has any impact on the quality of a film, but I can certainly sympathise with gay rights groups bringing his bigotry to public attention and organising boycotts of the film. Why should they spend money on a film that will benefit a man who absolutely despises them?



I'm tired of these stupid polemics. Who are you to call him (a person that you don't know) "a repulsive little shit"? If someone doesn't agree with you on a few topics, does it give him the right to call you that way? I'm sure there exists someone that may find you "narrow-minded" about something. Does it make you a narrow-minded person? This notion is purely subjective. I'm liberally thinking that everybody must be free to think WHATEVER he wants, without risking his whole career. Political-correctness is dangerous for a healthy, democratic debate.

Card struggled against the marriage law, lost the battle and admitted it. And yet, now that he's been defeated, he becomes a target and everyone's trying to crush him. Let me remind you that whenever a law is discussed, there ALWAYS are pros and cons. Then the law is (or isn't) adopted. Does it give the winning side the right to systematically destroy the career of every single one of their politic opponents?

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 20
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 12:03:02 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3945
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys


Political-correctness is dangerous for a healthy, democratic debate.




So is bigotry.


_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

(in reply to dseys)
Post #: 21
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 12:04:01 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys

I'm tired of these stupid polemics. Who are you to call him (a person that you don't know) "a repulsive little shit"? If someone doesn't agree with you on a few topics, does it give him the right to call you that way? I'm sure there exists someone that may find you "narrow-minded" about something. Does it make you a narrow-minded person? This notion is purely subjective. I'm liberally thinking that everybody must be free to think WHATEVER he wants, without risking his whole career. Political-correctness is dangerous for a healthy, democratic debate.

Card struggled against the marriage law, lost the battle and admitted it. And yet, now that he's been defeated, he becomes a target and everyone's trying to crush him. Let me remind you that whenever a law is discussed, there ALWAYS are pros and cons. Then the law is (or isn't) adopted. Does it give the winning side the right to systematically destroy the career of every single one of their politic opponents?


Dude, Orson Scott Card is a poisonous homophobic asshole. I think it's only fair and right that people get outraged at his less than progressive views on homosexuality and gay marriage.

This is the twenty first fucking century. There's no excuse for being this way.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to dseys)
Post #: 22
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 1:45:02 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys

I'm tired of these stupid polemics.


I'm tired of people trying to defend hateful bigots by pretending it's not that important.

quote:

Who are you to call him (a person that you don't know) "a repulsive little shit"?


I'm basing my opinion of him on his own words.

quote:

If someone doesn't agree with you on a few topics, does it give him the right to call you that way?


If those topics include wanting to criminalise homosexuality, or deny them the same rights as anyone else, or claiming that gay people are only gay because they were raped, then yes, yes it does.

quote:

I'm sure there exists someone that may find you "narrow-minded" about something. Does it make you a narrow-minded person?


If I was taking the way someone was born and using it a stick to beat them with, then yes, I'd be narrow minded.

quote:

. I'm liberally thinking that everybody must be free to think WHATEVER he wants, without risking his whole career.


So he should be free to think that, yet other people shouldn't be allowed to think what they like of him based on it?


quote:

Card struggled against the marriage law, lost the battle and admitted it.


Card spent over twenty years spewing hatred and then tried to claim that despite his hatred and bigotry, that he should be shown tolerance over his views. And this was in the same year as his racist Obama fantasy. The guy isn't contrite, he's trying to save face.

quote:

And yet, now that he's been defeated, he becomes a target and everyone's trying to crush him.


Poor him. I mean, he's being attacked for saying vile things about homosexuals. And what did he attack people for, oh yeah, wanting to get married. An act he only imagines has any impact on him. How does two gay people getting married affect him in any way? Give me one practical way it affects him, not bigotry, or bias, or religion, an actual practical way it actually affected his life.

quote:

Let me remind you that whenever a law is discussed, there ALWAYS are pros and cons. Then the law is (or isn't) adopted. Does it give the winning side the right to systematically destroy the career of every single one of their politic opponents?


Let me remind you, you are the one trying to create a straw man argument and say this is simply about gay marriage. It isn't. It's about Card's constant homophobia, with his homophobic comments dating back decades.

And btw, the very fact that you've weighed into this and offered your opinions means you're doing exactly the same thing you're crying about others doing to Card. People offer their opinions in a public way, others will comment. That's the way life works. If your opinions express hatred towards a group of people, don't try and paint yourself as a victim when it bites you in the arse.

(in reply to dseys)
Post #: 23
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 3:39:55 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
And that's not to mention that he insulted mentally ill people by suggesting that anyone who speaks out against homophobia is inferring that people who oppose homosexuality and gay marriage are mentally ill.

Orson Scott Cunt is a scumbag who invents these bizarre theories about homosexuality to give some credence to his prejudices. Christ, if I was the producer behind Ender's Game I'd be like: "Oh, for fuck's sake, he's killing us. We based our film on the novel of a prejudiced piece of shit".



_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 24
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 4:52:35 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3828
Joined: 19/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys


quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius0365

I thought I read this book when I was a teenager, but if I did it must be the only book I've ever read that I can't remember the plot, or even what it was about. But, more to the point, WHO CARES if the author doesn't approve of Gay Marriage? Marriage is a religious sacrament, so by religious rules you can't get married if you're gay. But if you're religious, then you shouldn't be getting married if you're gay, anyway...kind of a catch 22.



He's done far more than that over the past few decades. He's a vile bigot, claiming that the "dark secret" of homosexuality is a large number of gay people don't really want to be gay and it's just because they were raped as kids. Or that anti-gay laws should be on the books. Or that a gay man can marry a woman so there is no law stopping gay people getting married, and they should be happy with that rather than wanting, you know, to be able to marry someone they love. He's a repulsive little shit. Personally I don't think that has any impact on the quality of a film, but I can certainly sympathise with gay rights groups bringing his bigotry to public attention and organising boycotts of the film. Why should they spend money on a film that will benefit a man who absolutely despises them?



I'm tired of these stupid polemics. Who are you to call him (a person that you don't know) "a repulsive little shit"? If someone doesn't agree with you on a few topics, does it give him the right to call you that way? I'm sure there exists someone that may find you "narrow-minded" about something. Does it make you a narrow-minded person? This notion is purely subjective. I'm liberally thinking that everybody must be free to think WHATEVER he wants, without risking his whole career. Political-correctness is dangerous for a healthy, democratic debate.

Card struggled against the marriage law, lost the battle and admitted it. And yet, now that he's been defeated, he becomes a target and everyone's trying to crush him. Let me remind you that whenever a law is discussed, there ALWAYS are pros and cons. Then the law is (or isn't) adopted. Does it give the winning side the right to systematically destroy the career of every single one of their politic opponents?



THIS!!!!!! I mean for God's sake, what matters is the film good? Not what the author's beliefs are. Fucking ridiculous.

< Message edited by Dr Lenera -- 27/10/2013 4:53:52 PM >


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check out more of my reviews on http://horrorcultfilms.co.uk/

(in reply to dseys)
Post #: 25
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 4:53:57 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3945
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
Before this thread becomes overwhelmed by a tit for tat debate over Card's politics & the whole concept of homosexuality. I think it's important to remember to separate the film from the creator of the source material which it bases itself upon . Contrary to some of the lukewarm responses in the thread, the film does have merit and things worth talking about. So it'd be a shame if that got jettisoned onto the sidelines in favour of a "discussion" that even mainstream society struggles to accept without casual ridicule at best and outright homophobia at worst.

Don't get me wrong, I find his views deeply poisonous and offensive, so if he's going to profit at all from this film, it's only right those beliefs should be highlighted and challenged.

But this is the review thread for Ender's Game; a film that had plenty of other people involved (the vast majority of which I am in no doubt are tolerant and devoid of prejudice) and as far as I can see, also had nothing in it to discredit or humiliate gay people- something which cannot be said for quite a few releases this year.

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Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. A Hijacking
4. Behind the Candelabra
5. In The Fog
6. Good Vibrations
7. McCullin
8. Beyond the Hills
9. The Place Beyond the Pines
10. Wreck-it Ralph

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 26
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 5:06:42 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr Lenera

quote:

ORIGINAL: dseys


quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius0365

I thought I read this book when I was a teenager, but if I did it must be the only book I've ever read that I can't remember the plot, or even what it was about. But, more to the point, WHO CARES if the author doesn't approve of Gay Marriage? Marriage is a religious sacrament, so by religious rules you can't get married if you're gay. But if you're religious, then you shouldn't be getting married if you're gay, anyway...kind of a catch 22.



He's done far more than that over the past few decades. He's a vile bigot, claiming that the "dark secret" of homosexuality is a large number of gay people don't really want to be gay and it's just because they were raped as kids. Or that anti-gay laws should be on the books. Or that a gay man can marry a woman so there is no law stopping gay people getting married, and they should be happy with that rather than wanting, you know, to be able to marry someone they love. He's a repulsive little shit. Personally I don't think that has any impact on the quality of a film, but I can certainly sympathise with gay rights groups bringing his bigotry to public attention and organising boycotts of the film. Why should they spend money on a film that will benefit a man who absolutely despises them?



I'm tired of these stupid polemics. Who are you to call him (a person that you don't know) "a repulsive little shit"? If someone doesn't agree with you on a few topics, does it give him the right to call you that way? I'm sure there exists someone that may find you "narrow-minded" about something. Does it make you a narrow-minded person? This notion is purely subjective. I'm liberally thinking that everybody must be free to think WHATEVER he wants, without risking his whole career. Political-correctness is dangerous for a healthy, democratic debate.

Card struggled against the marriage law, lost the battle and admitted it. And yet, now that he's been defeated, he becomes a target and everyone's trying to crush him. Let me remind you that whenever a law is discussed, there ALWAYS are pros and cons. Then the law is (or isn't) adopted. Does it give the winning side the right to systematically destroy the career of every single one of their politic opponents?



THIS!!!!!! I mean for God's sake, what matters is the film good? Not what the author's beliefs are. Fucking ridiculous.



So if a gay person who has been bullied all their life for their sexuality decides not to give money to something Card created, that's ridiculous?

quote:

Don't get me wrong, I find his views deeply poisonous and offensive, so if he's going to profit at all from this film, it's only right those beliefs should be highlighted and challenged.

But this is the review thread for Ender's Game; a film that had plenty of other people involved (the vast majority of which I am in no doubt are tolerant and devoid of prejudice) and as far as I can see, also had nothing in it to discredit or humiliate gay people- something which cannot be said for quite a few releases this year.


So where should his views be discussed? If the film was a success then no doubt it would increase sales of the books and a demand for adaptations of the sequels. So whether people want to give money to someone like Card is a big issue with this film. So if it can't be discussed in the review thread, given Empire's policy for not duplicating threads, where should it go? If anything, the controversy over Card being a cunt has gotten more attention then the film itself all over the internet so far. I'd suggest that does go hand in hand with the film getting generally average reviews.

(in reply to Dr Lenera)
Post #: 27
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 5:40:07 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
I'm more curious at how Ben Kingsley gets possibly cast in every ethnic role possible. The man has been Russian, Jewish, Persian, Gujarati, and now his greatest challenge, a half-Maori.

Ok, not every role possible.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 28
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 5:44:19 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
I'm even more curious about why Harrison Ford is still seen as such a great selling point, when was the last time he was in a genuinely good film? The Fugitive?

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 29
RE: So what? - 27/10/2013 5:47:08 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27268
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Good, surely you mean successful?



_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 30
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