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F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 9/9/2013 10:35:28 PM   
Mister Coe

 

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OK, probably a silly irrelevant thread, but I saw ABOUT TIME this afternoon (really liked it, by the way) and I was really surprised by how many times 'fuck' was said... I always thought the 12A certificate was there to catch those films that would be normally rated PG but the distributors wanted to get a more 'adult' certificate to make the teenagers want to see them, which is fine when you want to throw violence at them...

My understanding was that a 12A rated movie could have one or, at a stretch, two F-words in it, but AT had a lot more than that...

It's not a huge issue with me, I'm just curious about where the BBFC stand on this...






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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 9/9/2013 10:39:52 PM   
elab49


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quote:

There are five uses of strong language ('f**k'), which occur in different comic situations and with no undue aggression. The film also contains milder bad language, including 'hell', 'shit', 'prick', 'dickhead', 'dick', 'smart arse', 'arseing', 'bugger', 'screw that', 'screwed up', 'sod all', 'bum', 'Christ' and 'bastard'.


Context is the key for them. Also, the lack of cumulation

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 9/9/2013 11:04:41 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

There are five uses of strong language ('f**k'), which occur in different comic situations and with no undue aggression. The film also contains milder bad language, including 'hell', 'shit', 'prick', 'dickhead', 'dick', 'smart arse', 'arseing', 'bugger', 'screw that', 'screwed up', 'sod all', 'bum', 'Christ' and 'bastard'.


Context is the key for them. Also, the lack of cumulation


Christ is considered bad language? Jesus, some people are touchy.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 9/9/2013 11:38:59 PM   
Mister Coe

 

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Fair enough.  Just thought it was a bit much in a 12A rated movie.

I wonder how long it'll be until we get five f-bombs in a PG rated movie.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 12:11:10 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

Fair enough.  Just thought it was a bit much in a 12A rated movie.


There were much more f-bombs in The King's Speech which had the same rating.

quote:

I wonder how long it'll be until we get five f-bombs in a PG rated movie.


Never.


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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 12:17:58 AM   
musht


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

Fair enough.  Just thought it was a bit much in a 12A rated movie.


There were much more f-bombs in The King's Speech which had the same rating.



I remember controversy over this on the Mayo/Kermode show. I think it was Made In Dagenham got a 15 for bad language, whereas The King's Speech was obviously given a 12A. MID director Nigel Cole was pretty angry as he felt the message of MID overrode the language and he wanted young girls to see it for obvious feminist reasons which is fair enough.

This is article on the issue and cole's interview with Kermode is probably out there as well somewhere http://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/sep/30/bbfc-profanity-made-in-dagenham

< Message edited by musht -- 10/9/2013 12:25:17 AM >


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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 12:29:55 AM   
Mister Coe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

Fair enough.  Just thought it was a bit much in a 12A rated movie.


There were much more f-bombs in The King's Speech which had the same rating.

quote:

I wonder how long it'll be until we get five f-bombs in a PG rated movie.


Never.



Good point, Shifty, gotta admit I'd forgotten about that one, but if memory serves, weren't they in the context of a speech impediment  and all in a single scene?  You're absolutely right, though.

Not sure about the use of f-words in a PG movie, though.  The barriers of what is acceptable in a kiddie / family-aimed movie are falling back all the time... for example, I watched 'X-Men First Class' again the other night and was surprised about how many scenes were based around torture or slow, nasty murder... not to mention how many bloody horror films, which would have easily have been an 18 a few years ago, are now 15's... and if those scenes are now acceptable, why not throw a single f-bomb into a PG film... why not, five f-bombs are OK in a 12A?

Wow, in my old age, I'm turning into Mary Whitehouse...



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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 12:39:13 AM   
musht


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For me personally I have no problem with bad language and its exposure to children. The only reason it's bad is because people think it is. If you think about 'fuck' is a fairly stupid word, it looks stupid it sounds stupid and its defnition is fairly variable. I think the C-word is probably the worst word out there as far as some people are concerned but again it's that very stigma which makes it so; in actual fact it's just another slang word for vagina and is used in the same context as 'dick'.

Yet violence which is wrong in most cases (I'm looking at you self defence) and should definitely not be encouraged amongst children deemed more appropriate and suitable.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 12:59:02 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

Not sure about the use of f-words in a PG movie, though.  The barriers of what is acceptable in a kiddie / family-aimed movie are falling back all the time... for example, I watched 'X-Men First Class' again the other night and was surprised about how many scenes were based around torture or slow, nasty murder... not to mention how many bloody horror films, which would have easily have been an 18 a few years ago, are now 15's... and if those scenes are now acceptable, why not throw a single f-bomb into a PG film... why not, five f-bombs are OK in a 12A?

Wow, in my old age, I'm turning into Mary Whitehouse...




It'll never happen because the 12A certificate does not mean the film is suitable for children. It never has been, the BBFC hate the 12A about as much as we do but they were backed into a corner to create it. Any film that has the 12A rating is only suitable for kids 12 and up but if a parent thinks their younger child can handle it, it is up to them. PG is for family films or films for slightly older kids (than a U rating) so there will never be the f-bomb in one. The BBFC are very serious about this matter. They don't want 6 year olds to see The King's Speech but they didn't see any real reason to give it a 15 as the swearing was used in a speech therapy context. It's a 12, no need for something like that to be given a lower rating

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 1:19:54 AM   
directorscut


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If they can justify giving a 12A to The King's Speech they can pretty much justify anything.

I'm not a fan of this context malarkey, it grays the water too much. Two f-words max at 12s and everyone knows where they stand - filmmakers and audience.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 2:44:46 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

If they can justify giving a 12A to The King's Speech they can pretty much justify anything.


They won't, though. PG means PG, they won't let F-bombs in them on purpose (Christmas Vacation has one but that was a cock-up).

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 8:38:07 AM   
elab49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe

Fair enough.  Just thought it was a bit much in a 12A rated movie.


There were much more f-bombs in The King's Speech which had the same rating.



I remember controversy over this on the Mayo/Kermode show. I think it was Made In Dagenham got a 15 for bad language, whereas The King's Speech was obviously given a 12A. MID director Nigel Cole was pretty angry as he felt the message of MID overrode the language and he wanted young girls to see it for obvious feminist reasons which is fair enough.



If he'd made a better film I might have agreed with him - a decent film about that important action has still be to made.


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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 9:56:26 AM   
Invader_Ace


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I find the phrase "F-Bomb" more offensive than fuck.

Please stop using it and stick to good old anglosaxon swear words, please! 

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 10:18:19 AM   
elab49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

and is used in the same context as 'dick'.

Yet violence which is wrong in most cases (I'm looking at you self defence) and should definitely not be encouraged amongst children deemed more appropriate and suitable.


It's not though - the anger behind the use of the c-word in fiction is at a dramatically different level to that used with dick. In an extremely violent scene it's rarely if ever going to be the latter word used - so there are also issues of association and the reasoning behind the word. Sure there are some cool dudes who try to own the word in a matey way, but that doesn't generally reflect the fictional outbursts.

Which brings us back to context. A 'fuck' in About Time (or Curtis generally) will get more separate uses than even 2 together used in repetition in a violent or unpleasant way.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 11:54:31 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Invader_Ace

I find the phrase "F-Bomb" more offensive than fuck.

Please stop using it and stick to good old anglosaxon swear words, please! 


No.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 12:09:44 PM   
MonsterCat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Invader_Ace

I find the phrase "F-Bomb" more offensive than fuck.

Please stop using it and stick to good old anglosaxon swear words, please! 


F-bomb you and don't f-bomb tell us how to f-bomb talk you f-bomb f-bomb. F-BOMB!



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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 12:29:56 PM   
shool


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

quote:

There are five uses of strong language ('f**k'), which occur in different comic situations and with no undue aggression. The film also contains milder bad language, including 'hell', 'shit', 'prick', 'dickhead', 'dick', 'smart arse', 'arseing', 'bugger', 'screw that', 'screwed up', 'sod all', 'bum', 'Christ' and 'bastard'.


Context is the key for them. Also, the lack of cumulation


Ban this sick filth! The use of "Bum" is completely unacceptable.

I find the variance in the 12A rating to be inherently problematic anyway. It seems to be such a broad sweeping rating. Parental guides are more useful but then you run the risk of spoilers I guess if both you and an underling both plan to see a movie for the first time.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 3:07:13 PM   
BelfastBoy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Invader_Ace

I find the phrase "F-Bomb" more offensive than fuck.

Please stop using it and stick to good old anglosaxon swear words, please! 


I don't find 'F-bomb' offensive, more irritating as it's (presumably) a stupid phrase cooked up by our pals across the Atlantic that can be said on mainstream TV networks.

However, apologies for going off-topic, but am I alone in finding the phrase 'meet cute' immensely grating? It crops in Empire reviews and articles so often I'm starting to think it's listed in the magazine's house style!

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 7:20:57 PM   
rich


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What a load of fucking balls.

To be honest, genre dictates to me whether language is appropriate to me more than the rating ever should. Things like Skyfall and Star Trek Into Darkness had a few bits that just seemed really out of place, but it's not because they are rated 12. Comic book action adventure and sci-fi flicks etc... maybe it's just me. Being picky after being desensitized for so long, I dunno.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 8:17:06 PM   
Vitamin F


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

To be honest, genre dictates to me whether language is appropriate to me more than the rating ever should. Things like Skyfall and Star Trek Into Darkness had a few bits that just seemed really out of place, but it's not because they are rated 12. Comic book action adventure and sci-fi flicks etc... maybe it's just me. Being picky after being desensitized for so long, I dunno.


This, and basically the same example I've used since a lot of comicbook stuff went the 12A route. Could be an age thing but it just feels right for the tone of those sort of films.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 9:23:47 PM   
Mister Coe

 

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Lotsa responses!

I think that sticks in my gut in the A in '12A'... under twelves have to have a parent or guardian with them?  Sorry, that ain't being enforced... I've seen plenty of 12A movies with bunches of little kiddies scattered around without any older person there to surpervise... and if I had, say, a nine-year old kiddie of my own, I wouldn't be happy about them watching a film that had half a dozen f-words in it...

Then again, who am I kidding?  The stuff kids have access to via the internet or their smartphones nowadays... the likes of ABOUT TIME is probably small-fry.

Sorry, Invader_Ace, if you don't like use of the expression 'F-bomb', I just put it in my header because a lot of people don't like the F-word... if it's any better, then just FUCK OFF!!!!

Kidding, mate...

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 9:45:32 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich
To be honest, genre dictates to me whether language is appropriate to me more than the rating ever should. Things like Skyfall and Star Trek Into Darkness had a few bits that just seemed really out of place, but it's not because they are rated 12. Comic book action adventure and sci-fi flicks etc... maybe it's just me. Being picky after being desensitized for so long, I dunno.


I think hearing the f-bomb (yup, doing it on purpose now) in a film you wouldn't expect it is out of place. I was a bit thrown hearing 'fuck said in Skyfall but not so much X-Men: First Class as that was a funny line but it would be out of place in, say, Fantastic Four. It's strange, really. I don't need to hear Iron Man or Thor say 'fuck' but it sounds oddly normal coming from Wolverine....


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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 10/9/2013 10:16:33 PM   
Mister Coe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: rich
To be honest, genre dictates to me whether language is appropriate to me more than the rating ever should. Things like Skyfall and Star Trek Into Darkness had a few bits that just seemed really out of place, but it's not because they are rated 12. Comic book action adventure and sci-fi flicks etc... maybe it's just me. Being picky after being desensitized for so long, I dunno.


I think hearing the f-bomb (yup, doing it on purpose now) in a film you wouldn't expect it is out of place. I was a bit thrown hearing 'fuck said in Skyfall but not so much X-Men: First Class as that was a funny line but it would be out of place in, say, Fantastic Four. It's strange, really. I don't need to hear Iron Man or Thor say 'fuck' but it sounds oddly normal coming from Wolverine....



I also was a bit shocked by hearing Dame Judi say 'I fucked up...' in SKYFALL... but the Wolverine line in XM-FC was a bit more relevant...

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 11/9/2013 3:48:20 AM   
JCR

 

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bbfc will allow 5 fucks at 12A, as well as About Time, also Senna has five according to bbfc.co.uk, and Monsters has 4 or 5.

This usually isn't an issue though as the mpaa are much stricter, and most PG13/12A films will stick to their guidelines. (Monsters and About Time are both 12A and mpaa R for language)

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 11/9/2013 7:16:15 AM   
DancingClown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mister Coe
I also was a bit shocked by hearing Dame Judi say 'I fucked up...' in SKYFALL.


I don't remember hearing that at all, whereabouts is it?

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 11/9/2013 9:03:40 AM   
matty_b


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Towards the end, where they're boarding up Skyfall itself.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 11/9/2013 9:22:35 AM   
Dead Mike

 

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2 fucks is acceptable but 3 isn't?!Is that the line where children will be corrupted? I'd suggest any parents taking issue with there being 'fucks' in 12A rated films try evesdropping on kids conversations or standing in a school playground, you'll hear more 'fucks' than in a screening of Goodfellas.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 11/9/2013 9:28:24 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15397
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JCR

bbfc will allow 5 fucks at 12A, as well as About Time, also Senna has five according to bbfc.co.uk, and Monsters has 4 or 5.

This usually isn't an issue though as the mpaa are much stricter, and most PG13/12A films will stick to their guidelines. (Monsters and About Time are both 12A and mpaa R for language)


Yeah, the MPAA is stricter on language and sex/nudity, whereas they tend to be more lenient on violence/horror. There are many PG-13 horror films in the US that get 15 certificates here and there have even been PG-13s i the past that have gotten 18 certificates here for whatever reason. On top of the 12A films you mentioned, The King's Speech and The Parole Officer (starring Steve Coogan) have all got R ratings in the US. The King's Speech got re-released in an edited PG-13 form too.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 11/9/2013 12:58:11 PM   
DancingClown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dead Mike

2 fucks is acceptable but 3 isn't?!Is that the line where children will be corrupted? I'd suggest any parents taking issue with there being 'fucks' in 12A rated films try evesdropping on kids conversations or standing in a school playground, you'll hear more 'fucks' than in a screening of Goodfellas.


Hang out in a lot of playgrounds, do you?

Teenagers, surely, but under 12s? Depends what shitty area one might live in. I'm sure there are some pre-pubescent kids who swear all the time but they're hardly the norm.

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RE: F-Bombs in 12A-rated movies... - 11/9/2013 1:26:14 PM   
Dead Mike

 

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Yes, during my teacher training it was part & parcel but nice try.

It's got nothing to do with living in a shitty area, kids swear & even if your precious little angel isn't one of them (probably still is) they'll have heard other kids swearing.

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