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Last of the summer beer - 22/7/2013 11:51:45 AM   
chief brody

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 30/12/2005
A near faultless first hour gives way to an inevitable slide into a fully "WTF!" third act, which is a shame because I could have spent hours listening to these five on their epic crawl. If Wright, Pegg and Frost are to part ways, then let's have one more for the road where it's the characters getting mashed and not the genres! Overall then, The World's End has a five star start and a two star finish.

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Post #: 31
Last of the summer beer - 22/7/2013 11:51:48 AM   
chief brody

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 30/12/2005
A near faultless first hour gives way to an inevitable slide into a fully "WTF!" third act, which is a shame because I could have spent hours listening to these five on their epic crawl. If Wright, Pegg and Frost are to part ways, then let's have one more for the road where it's the characters getting mashed and not the genres! Overall then, The World's End has a five star start and a two star finish.

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Post #: 32
Like Babylon 5 - 22/7/2013 7:29:31 PM   
DextersLab

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 19/2/2013
So disappointed. Didn't feel remotely like the same guys that did Shawn, Fuzz and Spaced.

The Good
One or two good action scenes (especially the first toilet one), including the review-mentioned "pint one".
Only Paddy Considine's character seemed to get remotely more interesting or likeable.
Rosamund Pike was quite engaging, for all of the 10 minutes you see of her.
Special Effects - liked the bad guys 'glow' effect, used quite well, and the work in the fight scenes deserves a mention

The Bad
Direction seemed off - really slow start, and what the hell was he thinking with the whole ending part?
Music choices were just distracting (from the very first moment) and the reference to the Rolling Stones was just forced.
Supporting character's all boring/unlikeable/boring and unlikeable (Dalton owns Brosnan in every way)

The Ugly
Simon Pegg & Nick Frost's characters - utterly unlikeable throughout, getting worse! (Pegg), understandably pissed off and angry (Frost) are not enagaging character's to follow or care about, and they don't grow, or change (is that the point of the movie?)
Simon Pegg's speech at the end
The ending
The fact they seemingly left everything cool about Shaun and Fuzz by the wayside, but didn't replace it with anything fun or funny

Someone tell me why I'm wrong please, cause I would love to be wrong!

Edit - some of the pub discussions (other reviewers have mentioned) were class, was maybe a bit harsh - will defo need to rewatch, but for the moment (2/5)

< Message edited by DextersLab -- 22/7/2013 7:42:07 PM >

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Post #: 33
RE: Like Babylon 5 - 22/7/2013 8:58:26 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3819
Joined: 19/10/2005
Gary King is a late 30-something obsessed with a legendary night - 20 years ago - in which he led a gang of mates through the trim streets of Newton Haven to attempt a 12-pint pub crawl. That night whited out before they reached the final boozer, the fabled pub The World’s End. Now he wants to he and his old mates to give ‘The Golden Mile’ another go. They have all moved on, and take some convincing, but the mission begins nonetheless. Unfortunately, things are immediately made awkward by one of the group deciding to just drink water, the arrival of the girl that one stole from another in the group, and very unreceptive locals.....



Well call me one person who was not really looking forward to this third part of Edgar Wright’s loosely connected Cornetto trilogy. It’s not because Shaun Of The Dead was poor. It wasn’t poor, in fact it was very good, immensely fun, rather warm and a better zombie film than most since, though nowhere near the Third Best Comedy film ever which I remember a stupid poll on Channel 4 voting it as [they also voted Star Wars/The Empire Strikes Back together as the Best Film Ever]. It wasn’t because Hot Fuzz was poor, in fact that cop comedy was pretty good, and actually funnier than the previous picture,even though it definitely suffered from packing too much into it. No , it was because after that Wright decided to make the atrocious Scott Pilgrim Vs The World, a tedious tribute to computer games with some of the most cringe-inducing moments in ages which constantly shouted at you: "look how cool I am”. It didn’t actually star Simon Pegg and Nick Frost unlike the other two films, but they hardly fared well elsewhere, appearing together in the shoddy Paul, as lazy and boring a comedy as they come.

So the omens weren’t good, but fortunately The World’s End is a distinct improvement, though in some ways it’s a little separate from Shaun Of The Dead and Hot Fuzz. Yes, it has Pegg and Frost back battling baddies, this time alien robots [or not-robots, as they call themselves], and again manages to be unashamedly English while maintaining an international appeal. Again, you get Pegg trying to jump a fence and those short shot montages. However, it’s not really as much of a film parody. It may borrow from both Invasion Of The Body Snatchers and The Stepford Wives for its premise, and throw in a few movie references along the way from Casablanca to The Thing to The Lord Of The Rings, but isn’t explicitly a parody of a particular genre. Also, it’s a lot less funny, and this was clearly the intention, though some of the bits that are intended to be humorous fall a little flat. For example, Wright and Pegg fall into the Richard Curtis trap of thinking swearing is automatically funny. Folks, it’s not, it’s just a lazy way of trying to get laughs and appeal to the lowest common denominator.

For the first third at least, this is a surprisingly astute and biting variation on the oft-utilised premise of old friends reuniting, and seems to be telling us right from the offset that trying to recapture the past is not a good idea. Simon Pegg’s character Gary is not only a near-destitute alcoholic but an arrogant loudmouth who was always the leader of the group but was never really liked. It’s a surprisingly dark turn from Pegg, who I’ve always found pretty dull but is actually rather interesting here. He isn’t very likeable at all, yet you want him like mad to complete his pub crawl. Nick Frost also plays against type as a suited businessman, Gary, who has been sober for years. When danger threatens, it is Pegg who is sometimes relegated to the role of side-kick and Frost kicks major arse. Then you have Paddy Considine, Martin Freeman and Eddie Marsan as his three mates, and you know that with three strong actors such as these the film certainly can’t be too bad. Throwing in the gorgeous Rosamund Pike makes it even better.

Well, the film is really good for the first third or so. Scenes tend to combine uneasy tension, boiling resentment and awkward camaraderie in a really strong way. The cast are simply amazing together and, as they begin their epic pub crawl, one might feel that the story won’t really need alien robots and chases and the like. I loved spending time with these guys, and, while as I’ve said before it’s not always very funny and not all the humour that is there totally works [in fact you’ve more or less seen half the jokes in the trailer], the more serious side of the writing is quite impressive and shows a maturity from Wright and Pegg. Unfortunately, the alien robots do show up, and to be honest matters take a nose-dive here, with originality in short supply, and the film not seeming to know what to do, while it ends up seeming to celebrate a character it initially seemed to rightly dislike. Our heroes battle the robots in a series of semi-comic fight scenes where heads and arms are ripped off amidst lots of blue blood, but while the martial arts sequences in Scott Pilgrim Vs The World were almost that film’s sole saving grace, Wright and his editor Paul Machliss decide to film the more bar-room brawl style melees here in that dreadful shakycam, one-second-edit style that is blighting cinema today. You can’t see what’s going on and, once again, I got sore eyes. Films like this should come with warnings.

The film seems to be climaxing fairly lamely, but then surprises with a downbeat coda that is very brave and refreshing. As I watched it, it occurred to me that you could easily make The World’s End as a totally serious film with only a few tweaks here and there. It would flow a lot better, for a start, and bring into sharper focus its more serious themes, though there are a few good comic moments that have a serious aspect to them, like when the group walk into the second pub and find the interior identical to that of the first. There is a feeling of nostalgia permeating the film, and not just because of its great soundtrack of hits from 1990 or the many cameos recognisable to any fan of Wright’s work going all the way back to Spaced. It yearns for a time when watering holes had their own identity, but also, bravely, seems to attack our increasing dependency on technology, both being things I feel strongly about too. Unfortunately, it also sees fit to include another of the worst things about cinema today, middling CGI which looks like it’s been added to too many scenes, while the odd more obvious effect often just looks very lame.

The World’s End doesn’t really work overall and often seems unsure of what it’s trying to do. However, there are things in it which are very pleasing, from the Jackie Chan-like sight of Pegg trying to nimbly fight off some robots while holding his pint to musings on things like growing up which are relevant to us all. It’s certainly worth seeing even if you're not familiar with the other two 'Cornetto' films. Edgar, you have just about atoned for your last film.

6.5/10

< Message edited by Dr Lenera -- 23/7/2013 8:25:51 AM >


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Post #: 34
RE: The World's End - 23/7/2013 8:48:04 PM   
scary_ice

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Meath, Ireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: gordonsalive

I liked it but not as funny as I'd hoped. Shaun I loved on first viewing and went straight in as one of my all time favourite comedies, Fuzz I wasn't sure at first but now love it, I'm hoping End grows on me the same way. That said, there are a couple of things that bugged me. There didn't seem to be any breathing space between jokes and also those moments of reflection. As already said by someone earlier, character deaths weren't really dealt with, you know those characters we've just spent so much time with and got to like! And that bloody ending, SPOILERS BELOW!!

I'm fine with everything up until King and the robo guys walk into the bar and then King becomes what looks like a murderer of humans because they wont serve him! What the hell is that all about? Am I missing something? Shaun and Fuzz both had great endings but this is awful. Hopefully they'll remove it from the directors cut


SPOILERS





I really like the ending coda - I think "King and the Robo Guys" (sound like a band name, write that down ) worked cos Frost's monologue mentioned how the "blanks" had become lost and confused and that he kind of felt sorry for them. Then he also says something like "turns out the aliens were right about how despicable we can be sometimes" and we see people abusing the blanks and "blanks go home" placards etc.

Therefore Gary has kind of become a champion of the underdogs and the ostracised in society which seems a pretty cool ending for his character to me. I did find it kind of strange on first watch but the more I thought about it the more I liked it.

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Post #: 35
The World's End - 24/7/2013 5:28:45 PM   
Josh91

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 27/10/2011
The ending was a dissapointment and it was not as funny as Shaun Of the Dead and Hot Fuzz. The Sci-fi element was not very interesting. The thing that worked with the two films was character development and the themes worked much better. There are a few laughs such as; pub fights, Nick Frost drunk and knocking against the window and Eddie Marsan kicking the crap out of the bully. Overall opinion; not as funny as the other two films and the storyline was weak.

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Post #: 36
RE: The World's End - 24/7/2013 6:17:38 PM   
R W

 

Posts: 319
Joined: 23/6/2006
Since 2004, the creators of the TV sitcom Spaced started a trilogy of comedies, all of which feature fencing and cornettos (hence the Three Cornettos trilogy). First off, they dealt with the undead with Shaun of the Dead and three years later, they Michael Bay’d a small town with Hot Fuzz, and now after a long wait, director Edgar Wright, co-writer/co-star Simon Pegg and Nick Frost conclude their trilogy with a sci-fi of which its title suggest that it all ends.

In 1990, five friends from Newton Haven failed to complete the town’s Golden Mile, an infamous pub crawl encompassing twelve pubs, ending with The World’s End. As the five are all grown up and gone off in their separate ways, Gary King (Pegg) hasn’t changed a bit and decides to reunite the old gang to redo the pub crawl. However, as the reunion is off in a rocky start, it gets even worse as the town’s residents are not what they seem.

It’s been six years since Hot Fuzz and during that gap, the creators themselves had gone off in their separate ways, with Edgar Wright adapting Bryan Lee O’Malley’s graphic novel series Scott Pilgrim, while Pegg and Frost penned their own script Paul. With the filmmakers making their own reunion, can The World’s End reignite that spark from their last two films? Tackling the genre of science-fiction, what we have is a “threequel” that blends the best aspects from its two predecessors, such as the hooro element from Shaun (displayed here by the blue-inked robotic blanks.) and the kinetic action from Fuzz.

Whilst it’s not the funniest or even the most parodic of the three films, it is perhaps the most heartwarming, thanks to its engaging protagonists. After a slow start, the characters not have their funny moments, but they are compelling flawed figures who revisit their pasts during the pub crawl, particularly Gary King who refuses to movie on and is seen very much as an irritating youngster. Stepping into the role of King, Simon Pegg creates a huge departure from what he usually plays s in here, he is intentionally annoying and yet out of his arrogance and immaturity, there’s a level of sympathy in his performance. As for Nick Frost, he’s also playing opposite to what usually expect from him, as he starts off so serious but as the film progresses he starts to deteriorate, resulting in sheer hilarity.

Having previously directed Scott Pilgrim vs. the World which was a big-budget comic book movie that undeservedly flopped, Edgar Wright hasn’t forgotten his cinematic roots, which is to take nigh-concept genres that are associated in Hollywood blockbusters and place them into aspects of British culture, such as the English pub or in this case twelve pubs. Although the film can go one a bit, Wright’s comedy direction is spot on as the action is very reminiscent of the directorial style of Sam Raimi, as the comedy is pure slapstick physicality, whilst applying clever nods to science-fiction, such as Steven Price’s quasar musical score.

The World’s End may not the best of the trilogy (Shaun still remains as number one), but it is a fitting finale to it, as well as just being laugh-out loud funny and surprisingly engaging in its characterisations.

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Post #: 37
RE: The World's End - 24/7/2013 11:06:29 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: scary_ice


quote:

ORIGINAL: gordonsalive

I liked it but not as funny as I'd hoped. Shaun I loved on first viewing and went straight in as one of my all time favourite comedies, Fuzz I wasn't sure at first but now love it, I'm hoping End grows on me the same way. That said, there are a couple of things that bugged me. There didn't seem to be any breathing space between jokes and also those moments of reflection. As already said by someone earlier, character deaths weren't really dealt with, you know those characters we've just spent so much time with and got to like! And that bloody ending, SPOILERS BELOW!!

I'm fine with everything up until King and the robo guys walk into the bar and then King becomes what looks like a murderer of humans because they wont serve him! What the hell is that all about? Am I missing something? Shaun and Fuzz both had great endings but this is awful. Hopefully they'll remove it from the directors cut


SPOILERS





I really like the ending coda - I think "King and the Robo Guys" (sound like a band name, write that down ) worked cos Frost's monologue mentioned how the "blanks" had become lost and confused and that he kind of felt sorry for them. Then he also says something like "turns out the aliens were right about how despicable we can be sometimes" and we see people abusing the blanks and "blanks go home" placards etc.

Therefore Gary has kind of become a champion of the underdogs and the ostracised in society which seems a pretty cool ending for his character to me. I did find it kind of strange on first watch but the more I thought about it the more I liked it.


SPOILERS FOR THE WORLDS END, SHAUN OF THE DEAD AND HOT FUZZ
Well, the ending was a very clumsy take on racism. And Gary isn't a hero for the underdog, he has become a murderer, he'd rather kill humans now than aliens, the violence has taken him over. Now, the endings for SOTD and Hot Fuzz were pretty dark (Zombies are slaves or are there for our amusement and the hero cop has become a brutal fascist) but this was so misjudged, it was pretty bad. The whole ostracised angle came out of nowhere as did Frost's narration (the film start with Pegg narrating), it was just poor and seemed rushed. And as for the deaths of two major characters, they meant nothing. Sam asks about her brother and King says 'I'll tell you on the way' which, as a character, was pretty shitty. He had no redemption at all, he started as a dickhead and ended as one.

I had fun with the film for the most part, though.

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Post #: 38
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 2:09:34 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Well, the ending was a very clumsy take on racism [...] The whole ostracised angle came out of nowhere


Considering that the film was very much in a 'science fiction as social commentary' vein, and much of the film was dedicated to a critique of cultural conformity ('stop Starbucking us'), it most definitely did not come out of nowhere.
quote:


And Gary isn't a hero for the underdog, he has become a murderer, he'd rather kill humans now than aliens, the violence has taken him over.


It's possible to be both. It's a post-apocalyptic wasteland, it would be even more tonally inconsistent to have something fighting for the underdog but not actually doing any fighting, not to mention the fact that Gary's very real psychiatric issues are revealed at the World's End when he fights with Andy.

One thing I felt about the ending was that I wasn't sure how to feel - it's good that Gary isn't an alcoholic any more, but there's still something very sad about repeating that pub crawl with decoys of his friends. It's less clear-cut than the other two films, I need to see it again to make up my mind for sure about how well it works though.

quote:

Now, the endings for SOTD and Hot Fuzz were pretty dark (Zombies are slaves or are there for our amusement


I would consider SOTD's ending to be an unequivocally happy one, since 1. we're previously led to think that Ed died in the Winchester and 2. Shaun and Ed basically get to live the lives they wanted to at the start of the film. You can even argue that Ed is where he belongs, in the shed (as alluded to by Pete earlier in the film), and everything he wants at the start of the film - to have no responsibility, hang out with Shaun and play Timesplitters - he gets. It's got dark overtones for sure, but it's a happy ending for the characters, which is what we want.

quote:

and the hero cop has become a brutal fascist)


u wot m8

quote:

as did Frost's narration (the film start with Pegg narrating), it was just poor and seemed rushed.


It mirrored the opening narration, it was a subtle and non-expository way of allegorising their friendship. I thought it worked brilliantly.

quote:


And as for the deaths of two major characters, they meant nothing. Sam asks about her brother and King says 'I'll tell you on the way' which, as a character, was pretty shitty. He had no redemption at all, he started as a dickhead and ended as one.


I'll give you Oliver's death feeling a bit disposable - I understand for dramatic reasons why it was dealt with in the way it was, but it was still disappointing. (I really don't understand the criticism about the 'I'll tell you on the way' bit though - they *were* fleeing an explosion at the time. And it's never implied that she doesn't find out, so I'd imagine he did indeed tell her on the way.)

And not every character needs to be redeemed - it's a cheap and easy way to win the audience round when faced with an unlikeable protagonist. What's more important in a film like this is that the audience come to understand the protagonist, even if that stops short of 'liking' him. The film more than achieved this for me.




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Post #: 39
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 4:10:23 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

quote:

and the hero cop has become a brutal fascist)


u wot m8


Is the text speak necessary? Angel becomes a 'fascist supercop' at the end of Hot Fuzz. He and Danny are rushing off to deal with 'hippy types' who are messing with the bins at the supermarket which is along the lines of what the NWA did. Angel has become what the old woman from the hotel said he was all along. Pegg and Wright have confirmed this in their commentary

All three films in the Cornetto Trilogy end in various degrees of bleakness

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf
I'll give you Oliver's death feeling a bit disposable - I understand for dramatic reasons why it was dealt with in the way it was, but it was still disappointing. (I really don't understand the criticism about the 'I'll tell you on the way' bit though - they *were* fleeing an explosion at the time. And it's never implied that she doesn't find out, so I'd imagine he did indeed tell her on the way.)


My point was the line was intended as a joke and was a bit misguided in my opinion, from a writing point of view. I didn't need to see her reaction to the fact her brother was dead but it just felt that all the, what should have been emotional moments were undercut by King being a wise-ass dickhead. That sort of thing was dealt with better at the end of Shaun of the Dead. Here, I didn't give a shit about the characters who died because the script apparently didn't.

EDIT: I didn't hate the film, by the way, I just didn't like the ending. Many people feel the same way.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 25/7/2013 5:51:38 PM >


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Post #: 40
95% good - 25/7/2013 5:40:19 PM   
ovverbruv

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 27/8/2006
The ending was poor. I thought they should have had him rebuilding the pub with a shiny pint glass waiting to be filled. Funny but let down by the ending

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Post #: 41
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 6:13:50 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Is the text speak necessary? Angel becomes a 'fascist supercop' at the end of Hot Fuzz. He and Danny are rushing off to deal with 'hippy types' who are messing with the bins at the supermarket which is along the lines of what the NWA did. Angel has become what the old woman from the hotel said he was all along. Pegg and Wright have confirmed this in their commentary

All three films in the Cornetto Trilogy end in various degrees of bleakness


I've heard the commentary m8. They're joking, because the ending is played for laughs. Reading it as a genuinely dark ending only works if you think Angel is a fascist at the start of the film as well - fastidious to the point of parody and obsessed with doing his job right, but he's not a fascist. He hasn't changed on that score.

This needs to be pointed out because it's a common theme in the trilogy and The World's End continues with it in a major way. The protagonists in all three films develop over the running time, but they don't become different people - Shaun is still a bit of a slacker who plays Timesplitters with Ed in his spare time, Angel is still way too dedicated to his job, Gary is still obsessed with the pub crawl. The real victory for them (and the audience) is that they improve themselves in other ways - Shaun learns to deal with a certain level of responsibility, Angel learns how to connect with other people, Gary works past his alcohol dependency.

The refreshing thing about these films is the recognition that this is really the way real people develop as human beings, rather than being replaced with perfect versions of themselves at the end of the film. There's a very clear anti-conformity message running through all three films, and perceiving an ending where the character is still the same person they were at the start, warts and all, as a negative one is a major misreading of Wright/Pegg's intentions.

quote:


My point was the line was intended as a joke and was a bit misguided in my opinion, from a writing point of view. I didn't need to see her reaction to the fact her brother was dead but it just felt that all the, what should have been emotional moments were undercut by King being a wise-ass dickhead. That sort of thing was dealt with better at the end of Shaun of the Dead. Here, I didn't give a shit about the characters who died because the script apparently didn't.


It *is* a comedy. And a moment with King being a wise-ass dickhead doesn't undercut an emotional scene by default - an example that comes to mind is Peter discussing his bullying, where Gary's cutting in is a comic moment while simultaneously being an affecting character moment in itself. I agree that I didn't really care about Oliver's death, since his death really functioned as a plot device and occurred off-screen, but I thought Peter's death worked quite well personally.

quote:


EDIT: I didn't hate the film, by the way, I just didn't like the ending. Many people feel the same way.



I'm not sure why 'many people' disliking the ending has a bearing on your or my opinion. I feel like I've gone fairly into detail on why it works in itself and in relation to the trilogy as a whole.

< Message edited by Olaf -- 25/7/2013 6:16:00 PM >


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Post #: 42
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 6:25:32 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
What is with the text talk?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

quote:


EDIT: I didn't hate the film, by the way, I just didn't like the ending. Many people feel the same way.



I'm not sure why 'many people' disliking the ending has a bearing on your or my opinion. I feel like I've gone fairly into detail on why it works in itself and in relation to the trilogy as a whole.


I'm not the only person to dislike the ending is my point. I haven't said anything against your opinion how much detail you have went to to tell me you disagree. We disagree on the ending, that's it. There is absolutely nothing else to this conversation.

(and Pegg and Wright aren't actually joking about the ending of Hot Fuzz, he has become what he was fighting against throughout the film. They say it in the exact same tone as they do about other details of the writing process//making of the film, so they must be joking about everything.)

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Post #: 43
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 6:37:30 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
You're not even addressing anything I've said, m8. I've offered a response to every criticism you've made and used examples and everything, but you seem to have decided that 'well but loads of people agree with me' works as a catch-all response to whatever. It's not like I'm objectively right or anything, so it's not like I have a problem with actual counter arguments. That's how any debate/discussion works.

And yes, they *are* joking, the film is a comedy. They're not stupid, and I'm sure they're conscious of the fact that turning Angel into a fascist would basically flush the rest of the film's themes and ideas down the toilet. Do you not see how that ending would make no sense considering what went before for the previous two hours? Genuine question.

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Post #: 44
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 6:46:09 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

You're not even addressing anything I've said, m8.


You are now just taking the piss.

I don't feel as though I have to address anything you've said, I said something, you disagree. The end.




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Post #: 45
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 6:52:38 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
What on earth is the point of expressing your opinion on a public forum then? If you're so worried about having to interact with people who disagree with you, why don't you just write it down in a diary or something instead? The mind boggles.

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Post #: 46
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 6:57:34 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
I'm not worried about anyone disagreeing with me in the least, I have accepted that you do. What is wrong with that?

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(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 47
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 7:11:46 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
How does any kind of debate come about? The concept of dialectic stretching back to the Socratic dialogues is based on thesis, antithesis and synthesis. Someone says something, someone else disagrees, they debate the differences and reach a synthesis of ideas. It's mutually beneficial to both points of views.

Instead you have posted your opinion on a public internet forum, the purpose of which is to start discussion, and you have shut down any potential discussion arising from that. Because it's your opinion and there's apparently nothing to discuss. Again, I must ask: what is the point of doing that, when writing 'I thought the ending of The World's End was rubbish' on a slip of paper and putting it in a drawer would give you the same satisfaction of expressing your opinion without that nasty business of other people looking to discuss with you? And why did you feel the need to respond to scary_ice's post to disagree, even though it's his opinion and therefore the end of the discussion? I don't mean any of this aggressively or whatever, I'm genuinely intrigued.

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(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 48
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 7:21:16 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Why do I have to engage in discussion, though? I don't see the need to when I fully accept you disagree with me, everyone has an opinion. I gave mine, you gave yours, yay! I used scary_ice's post as a way to put my opinion across, just used it as a way in. You seem very obsessed by this, Olaf, with your text speak and your pointless insistence that I engage in a conversation/argument with you. And because I don't want to, I should keep my opinion to myself and write it in a diary? You say you don't mean any of this aggressively and I believe that. I also believe that you mean it in a condescending way, though.

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(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 49
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 7:32:18 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
You are encouraged to engage with a discussion if someone engages in discussion with you. There's no ulterior motive to my posting other than a desire to discuss the film. It's basic etiquette, and that's the chance you take when posting your opinions on a public forum.

Why put your opinion across if you don't want to discuss it? Can you not see the inherent egotism in the idea that your opinion deserves to be read but not commented on? The idea that I'm condescending you by looking to discuss the film with you (on a film discussion forum) is laughable, particularly when you don't seem to notice the obvious condescension in comments like 'I gave mine, you gave yours, yay!', describing my desire to discuss the film (on a film discussion forum) as a 'pointless insistence', or telling me that I'm 'very obsessed' by the desire to discuss a film (on a film discussion forum).

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I tried to groan, Help! Help! But the tone that came out was that of polite conversation.

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(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 50
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 7:40:35 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

You are encouraged to engage with a discussion if someone engages in discussion with you. There's no ulterior motive to my posting other than a desire to discuss the film. It's basic etiquette, and that's the chance you take when posting your opinions on a public forum.


Yes, exactly but I also have the choice not to engage in discussion.

quote:

Why put your opinion across if you don't want to discuss it? Can you not see the inherent egotism in the idea that your opinion deserves to be read but not commented on?


No egotism at all. I posted my opinion, you disagreed, I accepted that, you keep going on about it. I don't need to argue against your points, I don't feel the need to. Also, Isn't this all sort of redundant when I actually did address a couple of your points? Do I have to address every single part of your post?


quote:

The idea that I'm condescending you by looking to discuss the film with you (on a film discussion forum) is laughable,


The text speak and lack of explanation despite being asked is pretty condescending especially the fact you ignored me when I asked you about it twice.

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(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 51
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 7:52:55 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
For sure you have a choice to not engage in discussion, yet you've been happy to have this length metadiscussion about it when actually discussing the film would have been fun and enlightening for both of us. I don't know where you're drawing the line on what constitutes a reasonable discussion. You've yet to offer a good reason not to beyond 'but I don't want to'.

You didn't address any points. The two things you ostensibly addressed in my posts, 1) 'Gary saying "I'll tell you on the way" is out of place' and 2) 'Nicholas is a fascist at the end of Hot Fuzz', didn't actually involve you addressing anything beyond just re-iterating your original assertion. This diagram is a good resource for any form of discussion: http://mybfolder.com/pics/2113-1274736033.jpg

The textspeak - 'u wot m8' is a term used in another messageboard I use to denote confusion, in this case confusion about your interpretation of the ending. I clarified my confusion by expanding on why I disagreed with your interpretation. Any subsequent use of textspeak had no ideological basis beyond being quicker to write than 'mate'. To consult the above diagram, your construction of a counter-argument on this utterly negligible part of my posts falls under the categories of 'responding to tone' and 'ad hominem', the third and second worst methods of argument possible. (at least you didn't call me an 'asshat'.)

< Message edited by Olaf -- 25/7/2013 7:53:30 PM >


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(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 52
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 8:01:15 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Oh, dude, whatever.

Mountain out of a molehill, really.

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(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 53
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 8:06:52 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
Neat patronising ad hominem there bro. You must be a hit at parties, providing that no one disagrees with you.

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(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 54
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 8:12:52 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
I haven't said anything about you or anyone disagreeing with, though, is the thing. Disagree all you want, I honestly don't mind. And how was I being patronising? I was giving in as this is pointless.

quote:

You must be a hit at parties, providing that no one disagrees with you.


THAT is patronising and a wee bit insulting.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 25/7/2013 8:13:27 PM >


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(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 55
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 8:29:34 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23659
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41°N 93°W
It's obviously patronising since you're continuing with my apparent 'obsession' as your central point of argument, which again is ridiculous since you've posted on a public internet forum where the whole point is for people to reply. Telling me that I'm making a mountain of a molehill is criticising me rather than addressing any of the points I made. And presuming that this discussion is pointless as you suggest, why do you feel the need to waste my time and yours by continuing with it? I wanted to discuss the film, you didn't - based on what you've said already, you should have stopped replying ages ago - no one's forcing you to do anything.

If you don't want to discuss the film, which you clearly do not, find another thread to post in. It's really simple.

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I tried to groan, Help! Help! But the tone that came out was that of polite conversation.

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(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 56
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 9:45:48 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8041
Joined: 31/7/2008
Stop flirting you two. It's giving me a boner.

(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 57
really liked it - 25/7/2013 9:55:49 PM   
tysmuse

 

Posts: 347
Joined: 24/9/2007
very sweet and still funny. Although the ending was a bit WTF ish.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 58
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 9:57:06 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf
If you don't want to discuss the film, which you clearly do not, find another thread to post in. It's really simple.


I can post where I want, thanks. Also, I posted my opinion of the film in the review thread for the film, I didn't really think I needed to say much else. And I wasn't being patronising at all. It is easy to misinterpret text in a thread, isn't it? We all do it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

Stop flirting you two. It's giving me a boner.




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Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 59
RE: The World's End - 25/7/2013 10:09:52 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7932
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
I'm detecting an Ice Man/Maverick type homoerotic electricity between Olaf and The Bench.

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(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 60
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