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awful awful movie - 14/7/2013 12:55:21 AM   
ChudMonkey


Posts: 130
Joined: 29/7/2007
From: London
Just got back from watching this and even though I wasn't expecting much this was comfortably the worst movie I've seen this year (ousting Oblivion). Badly written, poorly acted, badly designed, incompetently directed...the only saving grace was a scene between Ron Perlman and Charlie Day....It made Transformers and Indepndence Day look like intellegent sci-fi...yeah that bad....came home to find Aliens playing on Film 4....now that is how you make a kick ass sci fi monster movie...

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Post #: 31
RE: awful awful movie - 14/7/2013 12:10:20 PM   
dolfinack

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 20/7/2011
From: Belfast
Urggh.

Obviously the effects were pretty good, but there is so much up close face smashing action that you can't see what the hell is going on half the time.

The story line itself is fine with a little bit of exposition quickly thrown in to get it going, but a couple of the characters really took me out of this. Firstly the crazy scientist dudes. One was JJ Abrahams playing a massive nerd, the other was Crispin Glover spazzing his way through his lines. Ridiculous and not in line with the rest of the movie.

The young Australian guy with his somewhere-but-not-Australia accent and over the top aggression.

Sheesh what a horrible mess.

_____________________________

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"Dad! I WAS the next man!"

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Post #: 32
RE: Pacific Rim - 14/7/2013 3:46:31 PM   
R W

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 23/6/2006
It’s been five years since the Mexican genius Guillermo del Toro directed his last film, which was Hellboy II: The Golden Army. The five-year gap is an awfully long wait, especially for those who have admired the auteur’s work, but in his defence, del Toro has tried to develop some of his passion projects such as The Hobbit (now in the hands of Peter Jackson) and his adaptation of H.P. Lovecraft’s At the Mountains of Madness. Finally, the man who brought us Pan’s Labyrinth has returned with a film with the simple premise of giant robots versus giant monsters.

In the near-future, alien life exists, except not appearing from space but a portal somewhere in the Pacific Ocean. As more and more of the Kaiju continue to terrorise major cities from around the world, mankind’s only hope is the creation of the Jaegers: gigantic humanoid mecha, each controlled by two pilots whose minds are joined by a neural bridge. As the war is getting worse for the humans, washed-up Jaeger pilot Raleigh Becket (Charlie Hunnam) is called out of retirement and teamed with rookie pilot Mako Mori (Rinko Kikuchi) in a last-ditch effort to defeat the Kaiju.

For those who have an extensive knowledge of Japanese cinema will recognise the word Kaiju as it evokes Japan’s own sub-genre of giant monsters, which goes back to Godzilla (of which Monsters’ Gareth Edwards is helming a US reboot that will celebrate the fire-breathing lizard’s 60th anniversary). As for the Jaegers, they were very much influenced by the country’s other media trademark which is “mecha”, evoked mostly in anime and toy franchises. With its Asian influence, del Toro and his co-writer Travis Beacham are clearly fans of those genres and their love definitely shows in what many would consider a big, stupid popcorn blockbuster in which giant robots are hitting giant monsters.

While it does have a very simple premise which is executed on an epic scale, this is unlike Michael Bay’s Transformers series, which is so lunk-headed and horribly comically reprehensible, as well as a lack of human spark. In the case of Pacific Rim, you are actually invested in the human subplots, such as Becket’s conflict with his own past, his new co-pilot whose only purpose is vengeance (told in a truly breathtaking sequence which throws everything in the kitchen from neural-bridging, monster-bashing and an emotional core at the centre), and even the cartoony antics of the two comic scientists. Although these stories are rather clichéd, performances by mostly non-big names keep the drama engaging.

As always, del Toro has such attention to detail when it comes to creating worlds, whether it is the fantasy surroundings of the Troll Market (Hellboy II) and in this case, the sci-fi battles between machine and monster. Despite its near-futuristic setting, the production/art design looks used and industrial, even towards the Jaegers that are beautifully constructed. Although the 3D post-conversion didn’t add anything to the film, it was never a distraction for Guillermo Navarro’s stunning cinematography, as well as the big and loud action set-pieces, in which you got the sense of physical heft to these giant figures as if one of these things hit the ground, there’s going to be destruction.

At a time where the big Hollywood blockbusters are essentially B-movie fodder, it’s no wonder that a movie like Pacific Rim got made. However, while del Toro’s latest does deliver on its simple premise of ‘Giant Robots versus Giant Monsters’, it is smart, surprisingly moving and most of all, entirely satisfying.

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Post #: 33
RE: Pacific Rim - 14/7/2013 3:58:55 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5072
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
Is this worth seeing in 3D then?

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Post #: 34
RE: Pacific Rim - 14/7/2013 4:59:53 PM   
R W

 

Posts: 343
Joined: 23/6/2006
Not really.

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Post #: 35
pants - 14/7/2013 8:26:29 PM   
tysmuse

 

Posts: 388
Joined: 24/9/2007
Awful script, terrible characters, bad acting. The fight scenes are a laugh, but this isn't even as good as Transformers.

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Post #: 36
Pacific Rim - 14/7/2013 9:03:46 PM   
James2183


Posts: 10541
Joined: 30/9/2005
Bloody loved it

Haters gonna hate

< Message edited by James2183 -- 14/7/2013 9:04:35 PM >


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Post #: 37
BIG fun! (minor spoilers) - 14/7/2013 10:03:46 PM   
Bubba76

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 30/9/2005
Giant robots Vs giant monsters... Does what it says on the tin!
The fight scenes were great and and there were a nice couple of scenes that surprised me in a good way (the sword and the flying monster, using a tanker as a club (even though that one is in the trailer)) Awesome!! :D

< Message edited by Bubba76 -- 14/7/2013 10:05:27 PM >

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Post #: 38
Loved it! - 15/7/2013 1:45:03 PM   
Old_Pyrate

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
It has many weak elements, but in terms of the principal reason for seeing this film (giant robots butting heads with alien monsters) Del Toro really delivers. Rinko Kikuchi goes a long way to giving the film a bit of soul too.

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Post #: 39
Loved it! - 15/7/2013 1:45:08 PM   
Old_Pyrate

 

Posts: 84
Joined: 1/5/2006
It has many weak elements, but in terms of the principal reason for seeing this film (giant robots butting heads with alien monsters) Del Toro really delivers. Rinko Kikuchi goes a long way to giving the film a bit of soul too.

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Post #: 40
Very very good! - 15/7/2013 2:40:51 PM   
TheHazman

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 6/9/2007
I absolutely loved this film! I can hands down say that this had the greatest special effects I have ever seen. Absolutely mind blowing. The action was also top notch. The characters were all pretty superficial and poorly acted, but it really didn't matter as it all fit in with the feel of the film. It was the most fun I've had in the cinema this year and anyone that cant find some enjoyment in it has no soul!

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Post #: 41
Pacific Rim - 15/7/2013 4:14:47 PM   
ChudMonkey


Posts: 130
Joined: 29/7/2007
From: London
This one is really dividing opinion and a couple of days after watching it I'm still of the opinion that it is truly one of the worst movies I have ever seen. The defence of the movie seems to mainly fall into two camps a) If you don't "get" mecha movies then you won't get that this is a love letter to the genre or b) it's just a dumb summer blockbuster with Robots fighting Monsters - what more do you want than that?

To answer both:

a) I know nothing of Mecha movies and my only exposure to anime / manga is Akira, so maybe I don't fit into the demographic that should be enjoying this film - but surely a big Hollywood blockbuster should do more than pander to a very niche market? And, if it is a love letter to the genre, did they have to go the whole hog and make the dialogue and acting so risible?

b) Yes it is a big dumb blockbuster but as above why does that mean we should put up with awful dialogue and wooden acting? And for that matter why should we put up with "dumb" in our summer blockbusters when we get the sharp and witty dialogue of Iron Man 3, or the head scratching, thought provoking plot gymnastics of Looper or Inception? To defend a movie because it is meant to be dumb is all a bit stupid in itself...movie makers should be pushing the envelope to make our biggest movies more intelligent not dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator....Transformers, Sucker Punch and GI Joe are dumb summer blockbusters and they rightly get lambasted for it. What makes Pacific Rim so special that it can avoid the same level of criticism and loathing? Anything to do with the fact that people are too afraid to criticise the director? A bit like how no one criticised The Phantom Menace of Indy IV until some time after release?


There are so many things wrong with this movie that I can't begin to understand why anyone is defending it. So to clear things up here's what I had issues with. Defend away...

1. The dialogue is ultra cheesy. Every sentence is devoid of wit or warmth to the extent that I was wondering whether a Hollyoaks writer was involved and the comedy falls flat every single time. Christ, every line stinks in this movie.

2. The acting is abysmal across the board. Idris Elba shouts a lot but never commands the screen, Charlie Hunnam is so one note he makes Keanu Reeves look like 70s De Niro. Robert Kazinsky's mispronunciation of Raleigh in a forced Australian accent like some sort of pathetic school bully grates constantly...there's a reason he started out in soaps, he should have stayed there. Knowing how to glower does not make you an actor. Charlie Day I normally love but his wild overacting screams of student improvisation (he did have one good scene with Perlman though). I've never come across Burn Gorman before but his portrayal of a mad scientist seemed to come from another movie entirely. Rinko Kikuchi was ok I guess although you got a lot more insight into her character from the child actress who played her character in flashback (in fact, the flashback involving her as a little girl cowering from a Kaiju was probably the only bit of the movie I enjoyed).

3. The tone is muddled throughout. One minute it's ultra serious (every time Elba is on screen and during the prologue) then tongue-in-cheek B-movie pastiche (every time Hunnam says anything - I thought he'd been drafted in from Starship Troopers where his limited range and dialogue would have worked) and then out and out comedy, which never seems to work. It's jarring, nonsensical and really really annoying.

4. For a film which has been praised for it's visuals there wasn't a great deal to be impressed by. I saw it in 2D and even in that format the fight scenes were muddled, muddy and lacked a sense of realism (it just felt like watching someone else playing a computer game), the much heralded sense of scale really only amounts to a bombastic score and lots of slow pans over the robots (Michael Bay actually did this better in the first Transformers movie - yes really!"). You can't tell the monsters or the machines apart during the action scenes making emotional investment in the fights impossible. The final fight seemed to involve more monsters than was mentioned and I truly couldn't tell who or what had been killed from one dark, murky (and extremely loud) scene to the next. The less said about the end sequence as Gipsy Danger enters the Kaijus' universe the better - what a wasted opportunity to really show the scale of the impending invasion and the level of threat that needed to be thwarted.

5. During certain parts of the film I couldn't tell the difference between Kazinsky and Hunnam or Gorman and Clifton Collins Jr...and to be honest, I wasn't invested in the characters so I didn't care.

6. There was an abundance of lapses of logic that I couldn't get past a) how did just 4 helicopters carry the huge Jaegers? b) Why did no one else use their escape pods? c) Why did Gipsy Danger take so long to use it's sword? d) Why didn't Gipsy Danger seem to be affected at all by the nuclear explosion caused by Striker Eureka? e) Why did Idris Elba think he would be compatible to pilot Striker Eureka with Kazinsky? He seemed to have piloted with Herc Hanson in the past but it seemed fairly established that father and son were very different characters - surely the neural link between the two wouldn't have worked? f) Mako seemed to get over her inability to neural link successfully with Raleigh very quickly...surely he'd have been safer with someone else on such an important mission? g) How the fuck was one of the monsters pregnant - weren't they all clones and therefore had no need to breed? (and how did a baby who was not a clone have all the knowledge of his alien brethren to give Day and Gorman?) h) Why didn't the Jaegers stand back at a safe distance and just blast the monsters? Hand to Hand combat seemed to be pretty risky (considering only one Jaeger is left by the end) bad military planning from Idris Elba's character? i) Come to think of it, there's a lot of insubordination from various rank and file towards Elba's character. Surely a court marshal would be in order rather than the honour of piloting a Jaeger? Elba's character seems to be a pretty weak leader in all honesty j) The Chinese Jaeger got beat pretty damn easily for something that was supposed to be the superior mecha? Wouldn't it have been better to have seen it go down in a blaze of glory unable to fend off countless monsters rather than getting bitch slapped by one? k) How the fuck did that little boat at the start manage to stay afloat? l) Where did Ron Perlman get the knowhow to build the tech to neural link with a monster? And, if he did, is it all his fault that the monsters are still attacking - are they trying to find him? If so why did the baby eat him but the parent left Charlie Day alone? None of it makes sense!!!

Lapses of logic are what caused Prometheus to be such a risible movie and it worries me that we are truly lacking in any intelligent sci-fi currently. People seem happy to just go "yeah it doesn't make sense but it looks amazing" and of course Hollywood will be happy to keep delivering the same old schlock. This and Oblivion have been two of the worst written movies I've seen this year (I didn't even bother to watch After Earth). I'm just hoping Elysium restores my faith in the genre.

I'm sure there is a really great movie to be had from the premise and I actually thought there were glimpses of this in the pre-credits scenes. A movie about the pilots and their thirst for fame (and their eventual near-defeat) and the public's enchantment with the Kaiju (the toys / Day's tattoo / Perlman's whole business enterprise) would have had more emotional depth and fleshed out the idea of robots Vs monsters a whole lot better.







< Message edited by ChudMonkey -- 15/7/2013 4:18:12 PM >


_____________________________

Top 10 of 2013 so far:
1. Mud
2. Philomena
3. Before Midnight
4. The Way Way Back
5. Spring Breakers
6. In The House
7. Django Unchained
8. Only God Forgives
9. Tattoo Nation
10. Iron Man 3

(in reply to TheHazman)
Post #: 42
Better than it should've been.... - 15/7/2013 5:00:44 PM   
drew42

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 15/9/2006
First things first: "giant robots versus monsters" should never be expected to produce a good film. The very fact that this film is is actually good (Great? maybe...although I think just plain good is about right) is thanks to GdT - truly a visionary director. I had very high hopes for this movie and I think it's only because I read the 'prequel comic (http://www.empireonline.com/features/movie-prequel-comics/p5 ) first that I really felt I could understand the whole 'drift compatible' concept. Realistically I think they could have spent a little more time on the set up to bring the audience up to speed, because I really think it's this aspect of the plot that gives the film some depth and a sense of connection to the people involved. It would also help they hired actors who could actually act...

Either way the fight sequences are EPIC (the boat bat will be remembered for years to come) and, honestly speaking, that's what we all wanted to see!

*** Possible spoiler below ***





Would have been nice to see more of Crimson Typhoon and Cherno Alpha...I felt a little cheated, and kind of sorry for them :-(





*** Possible Spoiler Ends ****

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Post #: 43
RE: Better than it should've been.... - 15/7/2013 9:06:12 PM   
Will Frey

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 2/7/2013
"Embrace the Cheese." This quote is pointed towards the dialogue, especially between the two main characters, that you can fit into a thimble. If you can get past this very fact than you have realized what exactly you are watching: A Kaiju film. Have you ever an original Godzilla Movie? Some of the campiest stuff you'll find anywhere. There's a reason why it comes off looking like an over-rehearsed play - It's meant to. It took me a while to understand just what happened in those two hours at the movie theater. Was I expecting some sci-fi epic that would be comparable to an "Independence Day?" Was I expecting "The Matrix" level story development with enough cgi action to put ILM out of business? Perhaps i was, but all in all I'm still pleased with what it turned out to be.

8 out of 10

Will Frey

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Post #: 44
RE: Better than it should've been.... - 15/7/2013 9:09:19 PM   
Dude McNude


Posts: 37
Joined: 10/7/2013
I find myself fairly non-plussed by this film.

Astonishing special effects were a given, and very few film makers have the command of thier imagination that DelToro has.

Unfortunatley, the lack of characters, or real plot, left me a little un-engaged.

I guess I just expected more substance from DelToro. He can be a very astute, subtle storyteller when he's at his best.

And I still think Pacific Rim sounds like a punishment dished out in prison.

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http://www.deathbymovies.com/author/chrisw/

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Post #: 45
RE: Better than it should've been.... - 15/7/2013 9:57:45 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3887
Joined: 19/10/2005
When a rift appears in the Pacific Ocean, huge monsters called the Kaiju are unleashed, destroying many cities and killing millions. The nations of the world put aside their differences to develop Jaegers, giant robots operated by two pilots through a mental bond known as “the drift” because the task is too great for one mind alone. Seven years into ‘the Kaiju war’, Jaeger pilot Raleigh Becket loses his brother and co-pilot in a confrontation with a Kaiju and spends the following five years working on the futile construction of a giant protective wall on the western US seaboard. When his Marshall shows up asking for his help, Becket finds himself paired up with a new co-pilot, Mako Mori, a young woman with a troubled past….



When was the last time you felt like cheering in a film? The last time you felt like standing up and crying out: “hell yeah”!? The last time you felt like a kid again, full of awe and wonder? It’s certainly been a long time for me. The latest film from the great Guillermo Del Toro did that for me, and should be able to do that for any viewer who is able to simply sit back and be entertained. In some ways Pacific Rim is a bit of an anomaly at the moment, which may go some way to explaining why it doesn’t seem to be the huge hit it should be, though it’s doing better commercially than many predicted. Though of course there are films which have a lighter tone, the tendency at the moment with big blockbuster action movies seems to be to make them dark and serious. Except for the odd scene, Pacific Rim doesn’t try at all to be this way, nor is it full of the gently mocking tone that served The Avengers so well.

It has a curious innocence about it, a childlike simplicity which I think serves its subject well but may have cost it at the box office, though we do live in sad times where audiences seem hesitant to spend their hard-earned cash on something they are not familiar with. Saying that, Warner’s odd marketing, which should have been aimed far more at kids, especially young boys, clearly hasn’t helped. If I was a twelve year old boy I would probably think that Pacific Rim is the best film ever made [where the hell are the toys?], and so would most twelve year old boys. I’m no longer a twelve year old boy myself, so I’m not going to say it’s the best film ever made, and probably not even the best film this year. I doubt I’ll be entertained quite so much though. I’m going to see it again, and that’s something I rarely do when films are now released for home viewing very quickly.

Though I could not help but get excited at the prospect of seeing Pacific Rim, there were times I felt very apprehensive about it. Pacific Rim is not really ‘Guillermo saw the Transformers movies and felt he could do better’ [though he does do a lot better, and this is coming from someone who enjoys the Transformers films as guilty pleasures], though it’s clearly aware of those films. It’s a tribute to the Japanese films and TV series that thrilled the director as a kid, though it also seems to borrow from the Godzilla films of the 90’s and after where they constantly seem to be building machines including robots like Mechagodzilla and Moguera to defeat Godzilla and his monster pals, as well as I think anime like Neon Geneses Evangelion. Now if you’re a regular visitor to this website you will know from the series of reviews of Godzilla and other Toho Studios films posted on here that Yours Truly is an enormous fan of exactly the same things that Del Toro’s film is inspired by. And he has done them proud. He’s done this not just by tributes like calling the monsters Kaijus, having something called the Serizawa scale [Serizawa being the hero of the very first Godzilla film] and what looked like to me near-recreations of certain moments in films like The War Of The Gargantuas. He’s also done it by recreating the energy, imagination and “wow” feeling as well as a certain sincerity which is felt by many to be outdated in our times.

Of course, when it all comes down to it, this really isn’t much more than giant robots fighting giant monsters. But, if done well enough, that’s all you should need for two hours worth of escapist fun. We open with a concise explanation of the set-up, and we have a bit of Shakycam here amidst the flashes of incidents that we witness, but it’s very brief. Then we get a major action scene where a boat is threatened by a Kaiju, and a Jaeger comes to save the day. The ensuring battle is full of close-ups, and one of my major bugbears in action scenes these days is the over-use of close-ups, but every now again we pull back to let you see things properly, especially effective in certain “wow” moments dotted throughout where the camera pulls back and, for instance, we can see that a Jaeger has picked up a fucking ship to use as a weapon. In any case, successive action scenes mix the close-ups and long shots perfectly, and the camera doesn’t shake about. You can see what’s happening. This might sound like a strange thing to say, but many filmmakers at the moment have adopted the perverse notion of not showing you action properly. Shakycam is used a lot in films presumably because it is thought that it gives a feeling of gritty realism, but it actually does nothing of the kind, unless you’re Paul Greengrass, and most directors aren’t. It’s perhaps a little disappointing that all the fights are at night, but I think this was because the budget may not have allowed for lots of day time action [it's much cheaper and easier to do CGI against a dark background[.

After all this action we slow down for the next third or so, and I must admit that the dialogue could have used a polish, it sounds a bit like Michael Bay dialogue, but here as in elsewhere Pacific Rim avoids glorifying the military or violence. It even has a bit of Ishiro Honda [the director of most of the best Toho Studios science fiction movies]’s favourite theme of word unity, as well as just a touch of an environmentalist message in there. The subplots are cliched [but that's part of the point] and most of the cast like Idris Elba, Charlie Hunnam, Diego Klattenhoff and others seem to just be playing variants on TV roles, but they do this well enough. The human characters in films like this don’t need to be totally rounded. They just need to be likeable enough to carry through till the next bit set piece, and actually Burn Gorman and Charlie Day are immense fun as feuding scientists without the film resorting to the distasteful humour that let down the Transformers pictures, while hit or not I’ll be very surprised if the [absolutely stunning] Rinko Kikuchi doesn’t get more major roles from this film. And of course the great Ron Perlman soon turns up to dominate the screen even when he’s not doing anything.

Kikuchi’s character Mako Mari is given two flashbacks which are borderline scary and give the proceedings some real sense of danger, though I was most pleased that Del Toro, as with most of the films that inspired him, shows people evacuating a city before the destruction begins. He enticingly toys with the audience. Throughout the first half, we are shown short bits of monster rampaging, a few flashes here and there, building up the excitement until Hong Kong is threatened and we are treated to simply awesome spectacle. As a Godzilla fan, I was in heaven, because I felt like I was watching a ‘proper’ Hollywood version of a Godzilla film. Jaw-dropping shot follows jaw-dropping shot, and the special effects, bar the odd bit, are superb. No 90’s videogame-quality shots of buildings floating into the air as they are destroyed in this movie, unlike a certain other film involving mass destruction that is still in cinemas. The cutting is fast enough to help make the sequence incredibly thrilling but still lets you see stuff.

Both the robots and the monsters are cleverly designed and thought through, and often shot with great beauty. This film certainly doesn’t stint on the visual aspect. There are some shots inside the main base of the robot Gypsy Danger from Del Toro’s usual cinematographer Guillermo Navarro which are gorgeous compositions of various colours. In the end, this film may be simplistic compared to usual Del Toro and certainly doesn’t approach the masterpiece that is Pan’s Labyrinth, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been crafted with care and love. There is a great moment when one of the monsters suddenly shows an ability he previously didn’t have. In any other film, this may not have worked, but in this one it perfectly epitomises the childlike sense of wonder and is one of the coolest moments in cinema so far this year.

The climax is maybe a little disappointing because what went before it is so great, and it almost seems like a weirder version of the climax to Independence Day, but the biggest flaw of the movie is Ramin Djawadi’s score. One of Hans Zimmer’s many disciples who are all trained to score films the same way, Djawadi’s music doesn’t ruin the film, but doesn’t help it either. Just think how hearing a rousing march when the Jaegers go into action would have lifted the film. Still, it could have been worse. Zimmer himself could have scored it. In any case, for the most part Pacific Rim is a treat for those with a bit of imagination. It successfully remains true to the ethos of films like Destroy All Monsters and TV shows like Ultraman while modernising it all with state of the art special effects and more sophisticated filmmaking skill and artistry. It is dedicated to two heroes of Del Toro’s who are also heroes of mine: Ishiro Honda and the late Ray Harryhausen. They would have been proud.

Rating: 8.5/10

_____________________________

check out more of my reviews on http://horrorcultfilms.co.uk/

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Post #: 46
Bruising action....awful acting - 16/7/2013 1:28:24 AM   
spideed2

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 20/1/2006
Seriously, the worst scripted and acted movie I have seen all year (special mention should go to the collection of terrible accents and Charlie Days screechey annoying scientist for wankness) but action sequences are so much fun and it looks so good it almost doesn't matter.

Solid.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 47
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 10:01:40 AM   
BelfastBoy

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 30/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChudMonkey

This one is really dividing opinion and a couple of days after watching it I'm still of the opinion that it is truly one of the worst movies I have ever seen. The defence of the movie seems to mainly fall into two camps a) If you don't "get" mecha movies then you won't get that this is a love letter to the genre or b) it's just a dumb summer blockbuster with Robots fighting Monsters - what more do you want than that?

To answer both:

a) I know nothing of Mecha movies and my only exposure to anime / manga is Akira, so maybe I don't fit into the demographic that should be enjoying this film - but surely a big Hollywood blockbuster should do more than pander to a very niche market? And, if it is a love letter to the genre, did they have to go the whole hog and make the dialogue and acting so risible?

b) Yes it is a big dumb blockbuster but as above why does that mean we should put up with awful dialogue and wooden acting? And for that matter why should we put up with "dumb" in our summer blockbusters when we get the sharp and witty dialogue of Iron Man 3, or the head scratching, thought provoking plot gymnastics of Looper or Inception? To defend a movie because it is meant to be dumb is all a bit stupid in itself...movie makers should be pushing the envelope to make our biggest movies more intelligent not dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator....Transformers, Sucker Punch and GI Joe are dumb summer blockbusters and they rightly get lambasted for it. What makes Pacific Rim so special that it can avoid the same level of criticism and loathing? Anything to do with the fact that people are too afraid to criticise the director? A bit like how no one criticised The Phantom Menace or Indy IV until some time after release?



Cards on the table - I haven't seen Pacific Rim, might do tonight but am going in with low expectations, if I do go. Based on trailers and reviews, I've always assumed it falls into your category (b) anyway. I think you're correct in what you say though. If the film was directed by anyone else, it would be criticised far more than it has been. It seems to have gotten something of free pass from certain critics because they're looking for signs of greatness from someone who's done great work in previous films. Even the Empire review is searching for links to GDT's involvement in The Hobbit rather tenuously, after all! Mark Kermode, of all people, wasn't quite as critical as he could've been, largely because (by his own admission) it was directed by GDT. That shouldn't be a reason to hold back from saying what needs to be said though. Personally, given all his stalled projects, I think Pacific Rim is just the director coming back with something reasonably straightforward just to 'get back in the game', as it were. Funny how, after he departed The Hobbit, Jackson managed to film the bulk of three lengthy films and get one of them into theatres well before GDT finally settled on something and got it released.

I would strike a cautionary note, however. Remember M Night Shyamalan?! His name used to be enough to 'sell' a film, given that his casts weren't always the starriest. But, given how far his stock seems to have fallen, I personally never even saw his name mentioned in any promotional material for After Earth. The marketing angle seemed to be Will Smith nepotistically plugging his son, and therefore that film's failure will hopefully rebound on him rather than Shyamalan. My point? The director or Sixth Sense was also responsible for travesties like After Earth, The Happening, or Last Airbender. Critics will only be forgiving for so long, so GDT - do whatever you have to in order for Hellboy 3, or Mountains Of Madness, to happen!

(in reply to ChudMonkey)
Post #: 48
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 10:14:52 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8287
Joined: 31/7/2008
I think the difference is that Del Toro is yet to make anything that even approaches the awfulness of The Happening, Lady In The Water or The Last Airbender, whereas Shyamalan perseveres in making that kind of crap. He is making Sixth Sense and Unbreakable look like flukes, rather than his crap efforts looking like atypical blips. Del Toro has a lot of credit in the bank, and it's certain that the film is as it is because that's exactly how he wanted it. That gives it a certain charm, much like the old Godzilla films enjoy (and something that, for instance, Pete Jackson's King Kong sorely lacks).

(in reply to BelfastBoy)
Post #: 49
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 10:17:04 AM   
ChudMonkey


Posts: 130
Joined: 29/7/2007
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: BelfastBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChudMonkey

This one is really dividing opinion and a couple of days after watching it I'm still of the opinion that it is truly one of the worst movies I have ever seen. The defence of the movie seems to mainly fall into two camps a) If you don't "get" mecha movies then you won't get that this is a love letter to the genre or b) it's just a dumb summer blockbuster with Robots fighting Monsters - what more do you want than that?

To answer both:

a) I know nothing of Mecha movies and my only exposure to anime / manga is Akira, so maybe I don't fit into the demographic that should be enjoying this film - but surely a big Hollywood blockbuster should do more than pander to a very niche market? And, if it is a love letter to the genre, did they have to go the whole hog and make the dialogue and acting so risible?

b) Yes it is a big dumb blockbuster but as above why does that mean we should put up with awful dialogue and wooden acting? And for that matter why should we put up with "dumb" in our summer blockbusters when we get the sharp and witty dialogue of Iron Man 3, or the head scratching, thought provoking plot gymnastics of Looper or Inception? To defend a movie because it is meant to be dumb is all a bit stupid in itself...movie makers should be pushing the envelope to make our biggest movies more intelligent not dumbing them down to the lowest common denominator....Transformers, Sucker Punch and GI Joe are dumb summer blockbusters and they rightly get lambasted for it. What makes Pacific Rim so special that it can avoid the same level of criticism and loathing? Anything to do with the fact that people are too afraid to criticise the director? A bit like how no one criticised The Phantom Menace or Indy IV until some time after release?



Cards on the table - I haven't seen Pacific Rim, might do tonight but am going in with low expectations, if I do go. Based on trailers and reviews, I've always assumed it falls into your category (b) anyway. I think you're correct in what you say though. If the film was directed by anyone else, it would be criticised far more than it has been. It seems to have gotten something of free pass from certain critics because they're looking for signs of greatness from someone who's done great work in previous films. Even the Empire review is searching for links to GDT's involvement in The Hobbit rather tenuously, after all! Mark Kermode, of all people, wasn't quite as critical as he could've been, largely because (by his own admission) it was directed by GDT. That shouldn't be a reason to hold back from saying what needs to be said though. Personally, given all his stalled projects, I think Pacific Rim is just the director coming back with something reasonably straightforward just to 'get back in the game', as it were. Funny how, after he departed The Hobbit, Jackson managed to film the bulk of three lengthy films and get one of them into theatres well before GDT finally settled on something and got it released.

I would strike a cautionary note, however. Remember M Night Shyamalan?! His name used to be enough to 'sell' a film, given that his casts weren't always the starriest. But, given how far his stock seems to have fallen, I personally never even saw his name mentioned in any promotional material for After Earth. The marketing angle seemed to be Will Smith nepotistically plugging his son, and therefore that film's failure will hopefully rebound on him rather than Shyamalan. My point? The director or Sixth Sense was also responsible for travesties like After Earth, The Happening, or Last Airbender. Critics will only be forgiving for so long, so GDT - do whatever you have to in order for Hellboy 3, or Mountains Of Madness, to happen!


I heard the Kermode review and was shocked....he bashed Michael Bay for Transformers throughout (justifiably) but seemed to make excuses for Pacific Rim because of the director....
I personally think the first Transformers movie, whilst still no masterpiece, is still more watchable than Pacific Rim due to the wonderful idea that the movie is all about a boy and his first car. I saw no such humanity in Pacific Rim...

The other two Transformers movies however are a cancer on the eyes....


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Top 10 of 2013 so far:
1. Mud
2. Philomena
3. Before Midnight
4. The Way Way Back
5. Spring Breakers
6. In The House
7. Django Unchained
8. Only God Forgives
9. Tattoo Nation
10. Iron Man 3

(in reply to BelfastBoy)
Post #: 50
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 10:38:20 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChudMonkey

I heard the Kermode review and was shocked....he bashed Michael Bay for Transformers throughout (justifiably) but seemed to make excuses for Pacific Rim because of the director....



In the interests of fairness to Kermode, there's nothing inherently wrong about giant things lamping the shit out of each other. His problem
with the Transformers films (and mine too) is that the role of women in those films are problematic, and that's putting it mildly.

Plus, y'know, Del Toro is an interesting director and Bay is an idiot.

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(in reply to ChudMonkey)
Post #: 51
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 11:01:58 AM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12191
Joined: 30/9/2005
Also Pacific Rim was a lot more enjoyable than Transformacolonoscopy.

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 52
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 11:05:01 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Isn't there also that Del Toro is nowhere as disdianful towards the source material/influences as Bay is (Compare "Eugh I'm doing a toy movie" to Toro's clear enthusiasm to the material), can write good female characters, has much colors within his visuals and can actually frame a damn shot (something not even the first mediocre Transformers movie had), barely has a third of stereotypes found in Bay's work and has great designs compared to the muddled messes the robots of Transformers were?

< Message edited by Deviation -- 16/7/2013 11:08:16 AM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 53
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 11:11:37 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8287
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

Isn't there also that Del Toro is nowhere as disdianful towards the source material/influences as Bay is (Compare "Eugh I'm doing a toy movie" to Toro's clear enthusiasm to the material), can write good female characters, has much colors within his visuals and can actually frame a damn shot (something not even the first mediocre Transformers movie had), barely has a third of stereotypes found in Bay's work and has great designs compared to the muddled messes the robots of Transformers were?


I'm not sure about that. I thought Pacific Rim was particularly 'Hollywood' in that respect. Stern, unsmiling Russians, martial arts expert Japanese, rowdy Australians, eccentric brolly-carrying British scientist etc.

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 54
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 11:20:55 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Yeah, but I'm not even saying Hollywood here, I'm saying Bay, comapre the Russians with the Indian guy answering the phone or those two ebonic abominations from Revenge of the Fallen.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 55
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 11:24:29 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54596
Joined: 1/10/2005
I thought Kermode was acknowledging the difference between GDT and Bay in terms of simple film-making competence (see also Dev's post) tbh, that's why the 'who' was relevant and there is a difference IMO.

The national 'stereotypes' aren't just Hollywood though and still fitting old monster movies which weren't particularly socially progressive (also, the other Jaeger was a Chinese team not Japanese ).

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 56
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 11:29:08 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8287
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
The national 'stereotypes' aren't just Hollywood though and still fitting old monster movies which weren't particularly socially progressive (also, the other Jaeger was a Chinese team not Japanese ).


Oh yeah, my mistake (an understandable one though given we found out not one thing about those guys other than the fact they were triplets - I can't remember them even having any lines ).

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 57
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 11:59:18 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54596
Joined: 1/10/2005
We heard them discussing attack strategy during the Hong Kong sequence. I think that was about it though

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 58
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 12:06:35 PM   
BelfastBoy

 

Posts: 583
Joined: 30/11/2005
Agree that Bay is a disgrace to filmmaking - a guy who comes across as purely unpleasant and money-grabbing. However he's found his way into filmmaking, he doesn't suggest that he does it for love or artistic expression. Given that he's doing very well and has a job that would be an awful lot of people's hobby, that's pretty sad really. Sadly his formula is annoyingly successful, despite (with reference to Megan Fox in particular) an approach to filming women that is so offensively obnoxious that his cinematographer appears to be a 13 year old boy! Despite what I may have said about GDT in other posts, I've always recognised the enthusiasm and love for his projects, as well as an amazing visual style even when the budgets aren't the biggest.

I'm going to see Pacific Rim this afternoon with two of my children. I thought my son might like to see Man Of Steel, but he didn't seem that fussed and asked what else was on. So I downloaded an HD trailer for Pacific Rim, connected the computer to the big TV, and let it play. About 25secs in, there's a shot of a monster destroying a bridge, and it was at that point that his decision was made! His desire simply increased when the jaegers appeared, and fight sequences were shown. The screening isn't until 330pm this afternoon but, for every few minutes, I'm constantly asked "When are we going to the cinema?". I'm going in expecting to be entertained by the visual spectacle, but am not expecting a masterpiece of scriptwriting. I don't expect it to be a cerebral experience, so it should be an enjoyable afternoon.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 59
RE: Pacific Rim - 16/7/2013 12:07:54 PM   
ChudMonkey


Posts: 130
Joined: 29/7/2007
From: London

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I thought Kermode was acknowledging the difference between GDT and Bay in terms of simple film-making competence (see also Dev's post) tbh, that's why the 'who' was relevant and there is a difference IMO.

The national 'stereotypes' aren't just Hollywood though and still fitting old monster movies which weren't particularly socially progressive (also, the other Jaeger was a Chinese team not Japanese ).


Doesn't make it right though, maybe a movie in 2013 should try to move away from any sort of stereotyping? -

_____________________________

Top 10 of 2013 so far:
1. Mud
2. Philomena
3. Before Midnight
4. The Way Way Back
5. Spring Breakers
6. In The House
7. Django Unchained
8. Only God Forgives
9. Tattoo Nation
10. Iron Man 3

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 60
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