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Christian Bale's Hanging Up His Bat-Cape

 
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Christian Bale's Hanging Up His Bat-Cape - 2/7/2013 7:57:50 AM   
Empire Admin

 

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Post your comments on this article
Post #: 1
- 2/7/2013 7:57:50 AM   
herbertwest1701

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 25/8/2007
I have to say, I can understand his preference here..... an appearance in Justice League, while exciting from a fan's perspective, would probably feel like a footnote compared to the Nolan trilogy. I'm sure there'll be no shortage of actors lining up!

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 2
RE: - 2/7/2013 8:55:51 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
Thank god! Please reboot batman ASAP with new writers/director, he deserves better!.

_____________________________

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Post #: 3
No suprise... - 2/7/2013 9:04:17 AM   
spideed2

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 20/1/2006
...no not referring to the anti-Nolan trollers which pointlessly decided to roll out their agenda, the fact that Bale wont be in JL. The JL Batman is a very different beast.

Bale was great, but its time to move on.

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Post #: 4
Hamm Man. - 2/7/2013 9:43:11 AM   
Bloodmeister

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 2/7/2013
John Hamm for Bat Man. That is all.

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Post #: 5
- 2/7/2013 10:15:05 AM   
Osric


Posts: 244
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: Hebden Bridge
Just replace Batman in the JLA with Nightwing and have Joseph Gordon Levitt play him.

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Post #: 6
Mixed feelings - 2/7/2013 10:26:57 AM   
a_man_and_his_monkey

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 1/4/2006
The Nolan Trilogy was Nolan's take on Batman - which might I add was awesome. As someone else wrote here, the JLA Batman would be a different beast. Nolan wrapped his trilogy up very well - although I would love to see another trilogy with JGL taking up the mantle of the bat with Bale eventually returning and JGL becoming Nightwing. I kind of think that if Bale returned as Batman for JLA it may taint the other Bat-movies in some way. Although this may be because I'm not the greatest fan of the JLA. I'd much prefer a World's Finest movie.

I seem to have lost my way on this post. Say no to drugs.

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Post #: 7
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 11:11:41 AM   
shool


Posts: 10159
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

Thank god! Please reboot batman ASAP with new writers/director, he deserves better!.


Do you ever get tired of repeating the same point over and over?

_____________________________

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Post #: 8
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 11:23:46 AM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2361
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

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Post #: 9
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 11:36:32 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: shool


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

Thank god! Please reboot batman ASAP with new writers/director, he deserves better!.


Do you ever get tired of repeating the same point over and over?


Not in the slightest, neither does half this forum otherwise most threads would be pretty empty. I love Batman, cant wait for another incarnation.

_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 10
RE: Hamm Man. - 2/7/2013 11:38:30 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bloodmeister

John Hamm for Bat Man. That is all.

That would be great, but hes a bit old now?...

I would like to see The Dark Knight Returns part 1 and 2 made into a movie with Bruce Willis as the aged Bruce Wayne. that is all

< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 2/7/2013 11:39:31 AM >


_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

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Post #: 11
Zach Snyder/Chris Nolan Justice League Movie - 2/7/2013 11:49:12 AM   
H.A.L.Thompson

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 2/7/2013
What if... they still had bale batman for the justice league movie but he dies at the beginning of the film? In Nolans' universe batman's pretty old anyway and how better to trump the avengers with the death of BATMAN! It suits Nolan's grit and realism and means he can be replaced by Nightwing. Thought it might work.. anyway, looking forward to the flash.

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Post #: 12
. - 2/7/2013 11:53:21 AM   
H.A.L.Thompson

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 2/7/2013
don't know why it posted three times. my bad.

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Post #: 13
- 2/7/2013 11:58:43 AM   
jezy

 

Posts: 37
Joined: 1/5/2006
Jon Hamm should play Batman. He is 6 years younger then Downey Junior who is bringing in a mint for the Iron man series so they don't have to go the youth route. I think it would evolve the Character from Bale nicely

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Post #: 14
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 12:47:07 PM   
BelfastBoy

 

Posts: 592
Joined: 30/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.


I think that's fair enough. Batman truly doesn't need another origin story, just put him in there as a fully formed character and see what happens. The audience should have seen enough versions of the story by now to understand the essentials of why Bruce became Batman and don't need to be spoonfed a variant of the same tale again.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 15
RE: - 2/7/2013 12:48:13 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1108
Joined: 14/1/2009
I think this will be a blow to WB and DC, with MoS taking such similar cues from the Nolan Batman Trilogy I think it was going to be set up nicely for a Bale/Wayne return to the fold and personally I think if they want JLA to do Avengers buisness they need need Bales Batman.

(in reply to jezy)
Post #: 16
won't miss him - 2/7/2013 12:51:41 PM   
Suverlo

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 13/5/2008
As a massive Nolan fan and an even bigger Batman fan ... I won't miss him. Personally always felt he was the most flawed thing about all of the trilogy (that gravelly voice just got ridiculous by the end)

I would like to see someone younger and darker for the new Batman ... I think Nicolaj Coster Waldou (sp?!) from goT would be brilliant.

I also think an HBO-style Batman memoirs show would be awesome ... with Jon Hamm as an aged Bruce Wayne looking back on the years (Dark Knight Returns style)

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Post #: 17
won't miss him - 2/7/2013 1:00:34 PM   
Suverlo

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 13/5/2008
As a massive Nolan fan and an even bigger Batman fan ... I won't miss him. Personally always felt he was the most flawed thing about all of the trilogy (that gravelly voice just got ridiculous by the end)

I would like to see someone younger and darker for the new Batman ... I think Nicolaj Coster Waldou (sp?!) from goT would be brilliant.

I also think an HBO-style Batman memoirs show would be awesome ... with Jon Hamm as an aged Bruce Wayne looking back on the years (Dark Knight Returns style)

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 18
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 1:04:01 PM   
spideed2

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 20/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: BelfastBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.


I think that's fair enough. Batman truly doesn't need another origin story, just put him in there as a fully formed character and see what happens. The audience should have seen enough versions of the story by now to understand the essentials of why Bruce became Batman and don't need to be spoonfed a variant of the same tale again.


Give this person a prize. This is exactly how to approach him in the JL.

And as Mr DannyBhoy stated I like the idea of a DKR storyline (although elements were used in Rises) but not with Bruce Willis (terrible casting, sorry, no offense and IMO), someone like Kurt Russell would be my choice.

(in reply to BelfastBoy)
Post #: 19
RE: won't miss him - 2/7/2013 1:05:55 PM   
spideed2

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 20/1/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Suverlo

As a massive Nolan fan and an even bigger Batman fan ... I won't miss him. Personally always felt he was the most flawed thing about all of the trilogy (that gravelly voice just got ridiculous by the end)

I would like to see someone younger and darker for the new Batman ... I think Nicolaj Coster Waldou (sp?!) from goT would be brilliant.

I also think an HBO-style Batman memoirs show would be awesome ... with Jon Hamm as an aged Bruce Wayne looking back on the years (Dark Knight Returns style)


Not all Bale this...the voice was enhanced by Nolan...notice how its different in 2, from 1 and 3 (Nolan probably felt he pushed it too far and reigned it in). Didn't mind is personally.

Coster Waldou is a good shout for a younger bats but he would make an even better Aquaman.

(in reply to Suverlo)
Post #: 20
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 1:26:13 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: spideed2


quote:

ORIGINAL: BelfastBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.


I think that's fair enough. Batman truly doesn't need another origin story, just put him in there as a fully formed character and see what happens. The audience should have seen enough versions of the story by now to understand the essentials of why Bruce became Batman and don't need to be spoonfed a variant of the same tale again.


Give this person a prize. This is exactly how to approach him in the JL.

And as Mr DannyBhoy stated I like the idea of a DKR storyline (although elements were used in Rises) but not with Bruce Willis (terrible casting, sorry, no offense and IMO), someone like Kurt Russell would be my choice.


The gravelly voice was ridiculous from beginning to end! I was really enjoying Batman Begins upto the first time he put on the voice!. i was like what the hell!! "aint no body got time for that!!". All that tech and he couldn't just put a Mission Impossible style voice changeer built into the neck of the suit! come on!!. .....
Whats wrong with Willis! imagine that face with the cowl on!! almost as awesome as a younger Clint Eastwood would!! cut up and old Empire and try it! he would look seriously good. Kurt Russell was The Commander , he has done his Superhero stint!

What about that guy who plays the main werewolf in True Blood! he would be great! They need a tall Batman! someone seriously physically imposing?

< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 2/7/2013 1:29:47 PM >


_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

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Post #: 21
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 1:47:50 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1108
Joined: 14/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

quote:

ORIGINAL: spideed2


quote:

ORIGINAL: BelfastBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.


I think that's fair enough. Batman truly doesn't need another origin story, just put him in there as a fully formed character and see what happens. The audience should have seen enough versions of the story by now to understand the essentials of why Bruce became Batman and don't need to be spoonfed a variant of the same tale again.


Give this person a prize. This is exactly how to approach him in the JL.

And as Mr DannyBhoy stated I like the idea of a DKR storyline (although elements were used in Rises) but not with Bruce Willis (terrible casting, sorry, no offense and IMO), someone like Kurt Russell would be my choice.


The gravelly voice was ridiculous from beginning to end! I was really enjoying Batman Begins upto the first time he put on the voice!. i was like what the hell!! "aint no body got time for that!!". All that tech and he couldn't just put a Mission Impossible style voice changeer built into the neck of the suit! come on!!. .....
Whats wrong with Willis! imagine that face with the cowl on!! almost as awesome as a younger Clint Eastwood would!! cut up and old Empire and try it! he would look seriously good. Kurt Russell was The Commander , he has done his Superhero stint!

What about that guy who plays the main werewolf in True Blood! he would be great! They need a tall Batman! someone seriously physically imposing?


Joke right ?


(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 22
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 1:57:21 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

quote:

ORIGINAL: spideed2


quote:

ORIGINAL: BelfastBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.


I think that's fair enough. Batman truly doesn't need another origin story, just put him in there as a fully formed character and see what happens. The audience should have seen enough versions of the story by now to understand the essentials of why Bruce became Batman and don't need to be spoonfed a variant of the same tale again.


Give this person a prize. This is exactly how to approach him in the JL.

And as Mr DannyBhoy stated I like the idea of a DKR storyline (although elements were used in Rises) but not with Bruce Willis (terrible casting, sorry, no offense and IMO), someone like Kurt Russell would be my choice.


The gravelly voice was ridiculous from beginning to end! I was really enjoying Batman Begins upto the first time he put on the voice!. i was like what the hell!! "aint no body got time for that!!". All that tech and he couldn't just put a Mission Impossible style voice changeer built into the neck of the suit! come on!!. .....
Whats wrong with Willis! imagine that face with the cowl on!! almost as awesome as a younger Clint Eastwood would!! cut up and old Empire and try it! he would look seriously good. Kurt Russell was The Commander , he has done his Superhero stint!

What about that guy who plays the main werewolf in True Blood! he would be great! They need a tall Batman! someone seriously physically imposing?


Joke right ?




No, I really do think batman should be tall....

whats wrong with Joe ! he was Flash Thompson for gods sake!! http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542133/

< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 2/7/2013 1:59:43 PM >


_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)
Post #: 23
Why Not Do a Nightwing film? - 2/7/2013 1:58:28 PM   
a_bananuka

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 28/6/2006
Given what happened at the end of The Dark Knight Rises, why not have a Nightwing movie instead. I will admit I am not comic book expert, but from what I do know five characters had the Nightwing mantle (Dick Grayson/The original Robin) being one of them. So it would be easy to incorporate the character into the whole "Batman in the real world" idea that Nolan created.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 24
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 2:11:16 PM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1108
Joined: 14/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

quote:

ORIGINAL: spideed2


quote:

ORIGINAL: BelfastBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.


I think that's fair enough. Batman truly doesn't need another origin story, just put him in there as a fully formed character and see what happens. The audience should have seen enough versions of the story by now to understand the essentials of why Bruce became Batman and don't need to be spoonfed a variant of the same tale again.


Give this person a prize. This is exactly how to approach him in the JL.

And as Mr DannyBhoy stated I like the idea of a DKR storyline (although elements were used in Rises) but not with Bruce Willis (terrible casting, sorry, no offense and IMO), someone like Kurt Russell would be my choice.


The gravelly voice was ridiculous from beginning to end! I was really enjoying Batman Begins upto the first time he put on the voice!. i was like what the hell!! "aint no body got time for that!!". All that tech and he couldn't just put a Mission Impossible style voice changeer built into the neck of the suit! come on!!. .....
Whats wrong with Willis! imagine that face with the cowl on!! almost as awesome as a younger Clint Eastwood would!! cut up and old Empire and try it! he would look seriously good. Kurt Russell was The Commander , he has done his Superhero stint!

What about that guy who plays the main werewolf in True Blood! he would be great! They need a tall Batman! someone seriously physically imposing?


Joke right ?




No, I really do think batman should be tall....

whats wrong with Joe ! he was Flash Thompson for gods sake!! http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542133/


No chance for the Cruiser then ?

Oh I know who he is but I cant say I've seen him in anything that would make me think he's the next Batman, aside from being tall and a unit and I don't even think these are an absolute requirement anyway.


< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 2/7/2013 2:12:48 PM >

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 25
Rightly so - 2/7/2013 2:15:40 PM   
Gouken

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 28/6/2012
Nolan and Bale's Batman doesn't fit into a universe with super powered people.
Besides Christian Bale's smart enough actor to see the Dark Knight trilogy closed the chapter on Batman.
To put batman in a JL film they'll have to come up with a different version of Batman and different actor.
If Warner/DC knew what they were doing, they would try to do good films and not crap that needs the reboot every couple of years to pretend it never existed

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 26
RE: RE: - 2/7/2013 2:17:04 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

quote:

ORIGINAL: spideed2


quote:

ORIGINAL: BelfastBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The fan in me would love to have Bales Batman share the same universe as Man Of Steel and it would be awesome to have together in a Justice League movie but Bale has pretty much closed the door shut on that now.

Looks like the next Batman will be introduced in Justice League before spinning off into his own series of films.


I think that's fair enough. Batman truly doesn't need another origin story, just put him in there as a fully formed character and see what happens. The audience should have seen enough versions of the story by now to understand the essentials of why Bruce became Batman and don't need to be spoonfed a variant of the same tale again.


Give this person a prize. This is exactly how to approach him in the JL.

And as Mr DannyBhoy stated I like the idea of a DKR storyline (although elements were used in Rises) but not with Bruce Willis (terrible casting, sorry, no offense and IMO), someone like Kurt Russell would be my choice.


The gravelly voice was ridiculous from beginning to end! I was really enjoying Batman Begins upto the first time he put on the voice!. i was like what the hell!! "aint no body got time for that!!". All that tech and he couldn't just put a Mission Impossible style voice changeer built into the neck of the suit! come on!!. .....
Whats wrong with Willis! imagine that face with the cowl on!! almost as awesome as a younger Clint Eastwood would!! cut up and old Empire and try it! he would look seriously good. Kurt Russell was The Commander , he has done his Superhero stint!

What about that guy who plays the main werewolf in True Blood! he would be great! They need a tall Batman! someone seriously physically imposing?


Joke right ?




No, I really do think batman should be tall....

whats wrong with Joe ! he was Flash Thompson for gods sake!! http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0542133/


No chance for the Cruiser then ?

Oh I know who he is but I cant say I've seen him in anything that would make me think he's the next Batman, aside from being tall and a unit and I don't even think these are an absolute requirement anyway.



Cruise is at his best as the bad guy IMO! So I think there could be a great role for him somewhere in the Batman universe ;)




_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)
Post #: 27
although... - 2/7/2013 2:20:25 PM   
Gouken

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 28/6/2012
Maybe in 10/15 years time, he could come back to do The Dark Knight Returns trilogy (minus Superman of course), like they did with the older Indiana Jones. But make it a better film though...

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 28
End of an era? - 2/7/2013 2:54:05 PM   
Private Hudson


Posts: 1841
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think 3 is enough for Bale and Nolan. I thought Batman Begins was a superb movie, though I thought the two sequels were okay but overrated by the media. They were enjoyable, but lacked the wit and intelligence of BB. But again that is why origin stories are usually the most interesting.

I do hope they leave it for a good 10 years or so before the reboot Batman, but then again the reboot of Spiderman was quite good and it hasn't seemed to harm it at all.

Perhaps they should go with a much younger Bruce Wayne and start from scratch?

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 29
RE: although... - 2/7/2013 3:18:15 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
JGL wouldn't be Nightwing in any (theoretical) continuation of Nolan continuity.

The entire story of the trilogy is about creating an everlasting symbol that is more than just a man, a legend. As a man, Bruce wayne can be killed. As a symbol he can be everlasting.

That doesn't mean just ending up with a statue, that means that if Gotham goes bad again, JGL, having been coached by Bruce Wayne TDKR would put on the BATMAN costume, having been specifically told by Wayne during TDKR that Batman could be anyone (ie it doesn't have to be Bruce Wayne in the suit, what matters is the symbol, Batman).

As far as Gotham is concerned, Batman died. What greater fulfilment of R'as Al Ghul's principles (you have to become a wraith, more than a man, an idea) could there be than Batman, thought dead, appearing in gotham's time of need? What greater power to cause fear in Batman's enemies could there be than 'I have come back from the dead to take you down'?

In Nolan's trilogy, Bruce Wayne sought to create a symbol that could outlive him. He did. Almost everyone thinks Bruce Wayne is dead, almost everyone thinks Batman died for Gotham but almost nobody knows the two are one and the same. And the most powerful delivery of the symbol is Batman 'rising' to protect gotham from the grave. Which is what would appear to be the case, via theatricality and deception, if, for example, 'Robin' was led, via information from Bruce Wayne, to the batcave and the bat suit, and the film ended like this with the words 'The Dark Knight Rises, after a shot of JGL rising, to imply, the legend, the idea, the symbol continues, regardless of Bruce Wayne. The last idea the film expresses not being about Wayne, but about a worthy candidate to wear the symbolic suit finding it.

Oh yeah, it did

Conceivably, JGL could appear in JL, as Batman, with anyone who knows Bruce Wayne was batman thinking Batman is still Bruce Wayne. Conceivably, the Nolan continuity could continue into an era where Superman has just revealed himself to the world, and so the realism of Nolan's trilogy simply organically develops into a situation where the world just got a little bigger.

But there was no way (unless a new story was written to say otherwise) Bale would ever be Batman in JL, because via his own actions, and via the parallel story of Catwoman, TDKR finished the story (introduced in BB and developed in TDK (he doesn't want to do this for the rest of his life, how could he?) of someone creating a legend, and idea, a wraith, a symbol, and then having done so, leaving the symbol behind and getting on with his own life, a fresh start.

And unless there is a story written to say otherwise, the whole point of Batman is that Bruce can't save his already dead parents, so he does what he does to save who he can, so he doesn't end up destroyed by his childhood experience. So a Batman movie, without Bruce wayne, is less potent.

Conclusion: new Batman in any JL film, Bruce Wayne, still trying to make amends with his own trauma for losing his parents, with Nolan's continuity being just one of many variations of the story, and ironically one in which Bruce could have a happy ending. That story done, dusted and conclusively ended by Nolan's trilogy, the new, non-JGL Batman is still trying to avenge his parents, in a more broad fictional universe where superpowers and aliens are part of the deal.




< Message edited by jobloffski -- 2/7/2013 3:23:57 PM >


_____________________________

Yes, dreamers dream and doers do. But if dreamers DON'T dream, doers don't have anything TO do. Everything that is only here because people exist, only exists because someone thought of it., or in other words, dreamed it.

(in reply to Gouken)
Post #: 30
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