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Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 7:18:16 PM   
bydabeachman


Posts: 81
Joined: 29/5/2013
From: USA
Many people have continuously talked about how comical the Marvel films have been how they want them more serious. On the other hand I hear people say that DC is too serious and needs to lighten up. After seeing Man of Steel I had to think about a few things and wanted to get some thoughts on them

MARVEL: Light-hearted, Bright-colored, Kid-friendly, Life-oriented, Fairy-tale & Merchandise-oriented.

DC: Serious-themes, Darker-colored, Teenage-friendly, Death-oriented, Reality-based & Brand-oriented.

Marvel is the place you want to go to see something with the whole family, even the kids are welcome. This will be a bright experience with lots of colors and laughs, not to mention the toys and merchandise you will see on every stand and child around, from toys, clothes, bed sheets, etc.

DC is the place you want to go if you enjoy serious dramas with a lot of action. The themes are a little to adult for kids, but great for teens. This will have a darker color pallet with very few laugh out loud moments, more subtle jokes intertwined. This will have toys but their main focus will be more brand oriented, on products that can feature the name.

They have given us a choice, but I am conflicted about this. I personally know exactly why they have done what they have done but that doesn't mean I don't want to see a Marvel film that is darker and more real. (while writing this I am predicting that Cpt. America 2 is a much darker theme to contrast it's lightheartedness, and keep the fans who want to relate to it. Each hero's film will be able to connect to another group of people out there.) One day I would love to see a Iron Man that shows the alcoholic demons Tony Stark has or the horrible life is it like to be the Hulk, not on the run like always, but someone who is at a place of dealing with his anger and the struggles Bruce confronts. We have already see way too many funnny batman films from the 90's, so they can hold off on that for sometime haha.

I would love to hear your opinions. This is just a theory, I could be completely wrong, I was just hypothesizing. I'd love to hear your opinions.

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 7:32:56 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bydabeachman
MARVEL: Light-hearted, Bright-colored, Kid-friendly, Life-oriented, Fairy-tale & Merchandise-oriented.

Marvel is the place you want to go to see something with the whole family, even the kids are welcome. This will be a bright experience with lots of colors and laughs, not to mention the toys and merchandise you will see on every stand and child around, from toys, clothes, bed sheets, etc.


The Blade, Punisher and Ghost Rider films say otherwise.


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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 9:19:19 PM   
vad3r


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Marvel need to seriously reboot Daredevil and Blade. They're darker than anything DC have to offer if done right.

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 9:24:47 PM   
DancingClown


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Leave me out of this!

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 9:51:57 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Marvel need to seriously reboot Daredevil and Blade. They're darker than anything DC have to offer if done right.


I very highly doubt Disney would allow it. If we get another Blade movie, it'll be PG-13, I guarantee it. And I don't think a PG-13 Blade will work.

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 10:01:21 PM   
Hood_Man


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Leave me out of this!

My sincerest apologies, but for some reason I read this in the voice of Jar Jar Binks, and I have a horrible feeling it's going to stick

On topic, I don't have much knowledge of the characters outside of the movies, but I've personally found that Marvel were more relatable to teenagers and adults. Spider-Man dealing with the scariness of making it on your own in the world, X-Men dealing with the issue of coming-out, or this year's Iron Man dealing with anxiety and paranoia. Those are things I can relate with.

Batman on the other hand, I can't really relate to. Superman I sort of can, but not as much as the above.

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 10:29:52 PM   
vad3r


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Blade -

Director/Writer: Rian Johnson
Blade: Michael Jai White
Whistler: Jeff Bridges

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 10:37:18 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r
Blade: Michael Jai White


Hell yes, but it'll still be PG-13.

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Post #: 8
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 11:08:51 PM   
directorscut


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Blade - Donnie Yen

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 11:49:52 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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Sure, why not? Although, Blade in the comics was a British Black dude, so maybe Idris Elba?

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 11:55:06 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bydabeachman

Many people have continuously talked about how comical the Marvel films have been how they want them more serious. On the other hand I hear people say that DC is too serious and needs to lighten up. After seeing Man of Steel I had to think about a few things and wanted to get some thoughts on them

MARVEL: Light-hearted, Bright-colored, Kid-friendly, Life-oriented, Fairy-tale & Merchandise-oriented.

DC: Serious-themes, Darker-colored, Teenage-friendly, Death-oriented, Reality-based & Brand-oriented.

Marvel is the place you want to go to see something with the whole family, even the kids are welcome. This will be a bright experience with lots of colors and laughs, not to mention the toys and merchandise you will see on every stand and child around, from toys, clothes, bed sheets, etc.

DC is the place you want to go if you enjoy serious dramas with a lot of action. The themes are a little to adult for kids, but great for teens. This will have a darker color pallet with very few laugh out loud moments, more subtle jokes intertwined. This will have toys but their main focus will be more brand oriented, on products that can feature the name.

They have given us a choice, but I am conflicted about this. I personally know exactly why they have done what they have done but that doesn't mean I don't want to see a Marvel film that is darker and more real. (while writing this I am predicting that Cpt. America 2 is a much darker theme to contrast it's lightheartedness, and keep the fans who want to relate to it. Each hero's film will be able to connect to another group of people out there.) One day I would love to see a Iron Man that shows the alcoholic demons Tony Stark has or the horrible life is it like to be the Hulk, not on the run like always, but someone who is at a place of dealing with his anger and the struggles Bruce confronts. We have already see way too many funnny batman films from the 90's, so they can hold off on that for sometime haha.

I would love to hear your opinions. This is just a theory, I could be completely wrong, I was just hypothesizing. I'd love to hear your opinions.


I'd like to add to this with an insight of my own. I've always viewed Marvel's heroes as Human's with astonishing abilities, they were the more relate-able characters and the stories were more personal while DC's I viewed more as Gods and like the greek myths of old, They were grand tales of heroism that spanned the globe or the galaxy even. But on film, Marvel seem to be playing up the superheroic aspects of the characters a lot more while DC are trying to make their characters more human.

After The Dark Knight trilogy and now Man Of Steel, Warner Brothers and DC's films have been criticised for their super serious tone, especially in comparison to Marvel studios recent output. Personally while MOS could have used a few more jokes, I think that the more grounded, not necessarily more realistic but tangible approach making you believe what's on screen more, works for DC's heroes and helps distance itself from Marvel's films. There are a lot of Superhero films nowdays and things are starting to get a little samey. So anything to make them stand out is welcome in my book.

One other thing is that Marvel studios films, never feel like 'films'. They feel more like tv, in terms of the structure of the films with several character films leading up to the avengers film which ends the phase. Essentially each phase is a tv season with Avengers being the season finale. I also mean it in the sense of the creatives involved with interchangeable writers and directors and the producers mandating most of what is in the final film. I don't think it's a surprise that Marvel are going after people who work in TV to direct their films. Whereas WB/DC films feel more huge in scope and a lot more cinematic. I also see a lot more of artistic style from the directors in their films. Ironically Green Lantern was WB/DC's attempt at trying to make Marvel type movie with a lighter tone, much more family friendly and a more hands-on approach by the producers and more journeyman writer/directors. Oddly this approach failed for WB/DC, as it didn't really lend itself to the film.

So really, both companies should just keep doing what they're doing. They both attract the same amount of haters really but in the end they're both quite successful so far (DC just needs a bit more of a kick up the backside but Man Of Steel should be the beginning of them getting into gear with their universe of characters).

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Post #: 11
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 21/6/2013 11:58:12 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9999
Joined: 30/9/2005
In my opinion both houses need to take a shit in each other's bowls. A bit of darkness from Marvel would be welcome as would a bit of frivolity from DC.

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Post #: 12
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 22/6/2013 12:02:31 AM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Sure, why not? Although, Blade in the comics was a British Black dude, so maybe Idris Elba?


I doubt they'll make Blade a Brit. Also MJW is a martial arts grandmaster who holds 7 black belts. Elba is a better actor, but Blade is more about the action and looking cool as fuck.




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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 22/6/2013 12:17:53 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

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Oh, I'm with you on Jai White, I was just doing the 'Idris Elba should be everything' gag.

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Post #: 14
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 22/6/2013 12:23:57 AM   
UTB


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Blade... there can only be one...


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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 6:32:32 PM   
bydabeachman


Posts: 81
Joined: 29/5/2013
From: USA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: bydabeachman
MARVEL: Light-hearted, Bright-colored, Kid-friendly, Life-oriented, Fairy-tale & Merchandise-oriented.

Marvel is the place you want to go to see something with the whole family, even the kids are welcome. This will be a bright experience with lots of colors and laughs, not to mention the toys and merchandise you will see on every stand and child around, from toys, clothes, bed sheets, etc.


The Blade, Punisher and Ghost Rider films say otherwise.




As far as those guys, they were made by separate studios in which Marvel sold off, they most recently regained control, but when the films were made they were made by other studios, unlike the current cannon of Marvel films.

Blade - New Line Cinema

Ghost Rider - Sony Pictures

Punisher - Lionsgate

I agree they have dark characters in their comics, but as far as their films go, it is all pretty light and fluffy, not saying that they wont get to a point that they make dark shows, but currently they are not. Also as far as DC is concerned Guillermo del Toro is working on Justice League Dark and in my opinion that is going to be some of the darkest stuff yet, given the director and the content.
John Constantine, Swamp Thing, Deadman, Spectre and Zatanna are going to darken the place up.

< Message edited by bydabeachman -- 24/6/2013 6:34:12 PM >


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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 6:33:35 PM   
bydabeachman


Posts: 81
Joined: 29/5/2013
From: USA

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Blade -

Director/Writer: Rian Johnson
Blade: Michael Jai White
Whistler: Jeff Bridges



Yes yes and more YES! I would love this movie!

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 6:42:10 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: bydabeachman
As far as those guys, they were made by separate studios in which Marvel sold off, they most recently regained control, but when the films were made they were made by other studios, unlike the current cannon of Marvel films.

Blade - New Line Cinema

Ghost Rider - Sony Pictures

Punisher - Lionsgate

I agree they have dark characters in their comics, but as far as their films go, it is all pretty light and fluffy, not saying that they wont get to a point that they make dark shows, but currently they are not. Also as far as DC is concerned Guillermo del Toro is working on Justice League Dark and in my opinion that is going to be some of the darkest stuff yet, given the director and the content.
John Constantine, Swamp Thing, Deadman, Spectre and Zatanna are going to darken the place up.


I am fully aware that those films were made at different studios but most were still produced by Marvel and have the Marvel logo at the start of the films. Fantastic Four ('light and fluffy') and the X-Men movies are/were distributed by Fox as was Daredevil and Elektra. All have the Marvel logo at the start of the film.

You didn't specify you meant the Paramount (and now Disney) Marvel films. You just said Marvel.

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 7:41:06 PM   
bydabeachman


Posts: 81
Joined: 29/5/2013
From: USA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: bydabeachman
As far as those guys, they were made by separate studios in which Marvel sold off, they most recently regained control, but when the films were made they were made by other studios, unlike the current cannon of Marvel films.

Blade - New Line Cinema

Ghost Rider - Sony Pictures

Punisher - Lionsgate

I agree they have dark characters in their comics, but as far as their films go, it is all pretty light and fluffy, not saying that they wont get to a point that they make dark shows, but currently they are not. Also as far as DC is concerned Guillermo del Toro is working on Justice League Dark and in my opinion that is going to be some of the darkest stuff yet, given the director and the content.
John Constantine, Swamp Thing, Deadman, Spectre and Zatanna are going to darken the place up.


I am fully aware that those films were made at different studios but most were still produced by Marvel and have the Marvel logo at the start of the films. Fantastic Four ('light and fluffy') and the X-Men movies are/were distributed by Fox as was Daredevil and Elektra. All have the Marvel logo at the start of the film.

You didn't specify you meant the Paramount (and now Disney) Marvel films. You just said Marvel.


You are correct! During those films though, Marvel didn't really have a hand in on it, thus wanting to get the rights to now Disney. Basically I Marvel, in it's current form, is going for the family friendly market where DC is going for the more gritty violent style.

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 8:00:10 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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From: Land of the Scots
This is true........and the point is?

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 8:44:31 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: bydabeachman
As far as those guys, they were made by separate studios in which Marvel sold off, they most recently regained control, but when the films were made they were made by other studios, unlike the current cannon of Marvel films.

Blade - New Line Cinema

Ghost Rider - Sony Pictures

Punisher - Lionsgate

I agree they have dark characters in their comics, but as far as their films go, it is all pretty light and fluffy, not saying that they wont get to a point that they make dark shows, but currently they are not. Also as far as DC is concerned Guillermo del Toro is working on Justice League Dark and in my opinion that is going to be some of the darkest stuff yet, given the director and the content.
John Constantine, Swamp Thing, Deadman, Spectre and Zatanna are going to darken the place up.


I am fully aware that those films were made at different studios but most were still produced by Marvel and have the Marvel logo at the start of the films. Fantastic Four ('light and fluffy') and the X-Men movies are/were distributed by Fox as was Daredevil and Elektra. All have the Marvel logo at the start of the film.

You didn't specify you meant the Paramount (and now Disney) Marvel films. You just said Marvel.


Just to add, Blade, X-Men, and X2 do NOT have the marvel logo at the start of the films.

Blade ( and Blade 2 ) had the New Line Cinema logo at the start.

X1 and X2 had the 20th century fox logo at the start.

I think the first non Marvel Studio produced films to have the Marvel logo at the start were in 2003 with Hulk ( produced by Universal ) and Daredevil ( produced by 20th century fox ).

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 8:51:59 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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Thank you for the clarification but I didn't say all of them had the logo

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 9:07:20 PM   
vad3r


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Avengers is Marvel and is better than anything DC will ever do.
Thor is dark and is better than everything apart from TDK and TDKR.






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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 24/6/2013 10:57:20 PM   
kumar


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Marvel have trounced DC so far. The only thing i think DC excels is in the animated films. But movie wise DC have written themselves into a dead end. Their Batman is stand alone, Green Lantern is beyond fucked (needs a fresh start) and Man of Steel was set in his own world. Though it had little nods to batman there werent any references in that film that hint at a cohesive universe. Despite how much I enjoyed MoS, the thought processes just werent there that have been in the build up to avengers.



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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 25/6/2013 1:20:44 AM   
doubtlesswonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Oh, I'm with you on Jai White, I was just doing the 'Idris Elba should be everything' gag.


Is Idris Eba the new Nathan Fillion?

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RE: Marvel vs. DC - 25/6/2013 1:30:50 AM   
vad3r


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A pretender to the throne. The Fillion's greatness can obviously never be matched.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

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Post #: 26
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 25/6/2013 1:39:24 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: doubtlesswonder


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Oh, I'm with you on Jai White, I was just doing the 'Idris Elba should be everything' gag.


Is Idris Eba the new Nathan Fillion?


Yes. Fillion hasn't been in the (fictional) running for Bond and The Doctor yet.

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Post #: 27
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 25/6/2013 1:51:59 AM   
Olaf


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Marvel are more appealing at the moment. Doing 'dark' versions of comic book characters has become a rather tedious way for filmmakers to create a shortcut to 'emotional resonance' without actually understanding why. An analogous phenomenon would be the incredible burst of creativity in American superhero comics in the mid/late-80s which actually produced emotionally complex/structurally innovative/formally self-reflexive books that had a mature tone *because* of those things. Followed soon after by a particularly grim period in the medium's history where the actual idea of having mature themes no longer appeared to require a mature tone. Since a 'grown-up' superhero film can never be truly 'adult', unlike comic books which has plenty of room for multiple demographics (since the main audience for the films is children and adolescents), the notion of making a realistic and grown-up superhero film has been pushed as far as it can go. This is why The Dark Knight's musings on the nature of chaos and order were largely sophomoric Philosophy 101 aphorisms and TDKR had a hopelessly half-cooked commentary on Occupy going on, because their attempts at producing a mature exploration of these ideas were hampered from the start by a (some would say quite patronising) viewpoint on the part of the screenwriters, studios etc that it can't be too difficult because kids and teenagers would be put off. If you insist on starting from the position that kids and teenagers aren't smart enough for that kind of thing, just focus on making a good exciting action adventure movie, which is what The Avengers was.

It's a shame because some of the characters mentioned already in this thread could make for a great grown-up movie (not 'grown-up' in the 90s comic industry sense of the term). As flawed as it is, Constantine was one of the better films based on a comic book property in recent times. A closer adaptation would be better, but it's unlikely innit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Thank you for the clarification but I didn't say all of them had the logo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I am fully aware that those films were made at different studios but most were still produced by Marvel and have the Marvel logo at the start of the films. Fantastic Four ('light and fluffy') and the X-Men movies are/were distributed by Fox as was Daredevil and Elektra. All have the Marvel logo at the start of the film.


u wot


< Message edited by Olaf -- 25/6/2013 1:52:50 AM >


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Post #: 28
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 25/6/2013 3:10:57 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Thank you for the clarification but I didn't say all of them had the logo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I am fully aware that those films were made at different studios but most were still produced by Marvel and have the Marvel logo at the start of the films. Fantastic Four ('light and fluffy') and the X-Men movies are/were distributed by Fox as was Daredevil and Elektra. All have the Marvel logo at the start of the film.


u wot



That proves nothing actually as you are correcting the wrong part. When I said I didn't say all of them had the logo I was referring to the films bydabeachman named.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I am fully aware that those films were made at different studios but most were still produced by Marvel and have the Marvel logo at the start of the films


Which is true......I didn't say they all did.........

Now, I am aware I was wrong regarding some of the films I mentioned but you are also wrong in your correction, Olaf. I probably should have worded it better, in hindsight

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 25/6/2013 3:24:46 AM >


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Post #: 29
RE: Marvel vs. DC - 25/6/2013 11:01:08 AM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

Marvel are more appealing at the moment. Doing 'dark' versions of comic book characters has become a rather tedious way for filmmakers to create a shortcut to 'emotional resonance' without actually understanding why. An analogous phenomenon would be the incredible burst of creativity in American superhero comics in the mid/late-80s which actually produced emotionally complex/structurally innovative/formally self-reflexive books that had a mature tone *because* of those things. Followed soon after by a particularly grim period in the medium's history where the actual idea of having mature themes no longer appeared to require a mature tone. Since a 'grown-up' superhero film can never be truly 'adult', unlike comic books which has plenty of room for multiple demographics (since the main audience for the films is children and adolescents), the notion of making a realistic and grown-up superhero film has been pushed as far as it can go. This is why The Dark Knight's musings on the nature of chaos and order were largely sophomoric Philosophy 101 aphorisms and TDKR had a hopelessly half-cooked commentary on Occupy going on, because their attempts at producing a mature exploration of these ideas were hampered from the start by a (some would say quite patronising) viewpoint on the part of the screenwriters, studios etc that it can't be too difficult because kids and teenagers would be put off. If you insist on starting from the position that kids and teenagers aren't smart enough for that kind of thing, just focus on making a good exciting action adventure movie, which is what The Avengers was.

It's a shame because some of the characters mentioned already in this thread could make for a great grown-up movie (not 'grown-up' in the 90s comic industry sense of the term). As flawed as it is, Constantine was one of the better films based on a comic book property in recent times. A closer adaptation would be better, but it's unlikely innit.



Out of all of the DC comics films so far it's only The Dark Knight Trilogy that was dark and that was because it lent itself to the character. Man of Steel may have been serious and straight faced but it wasn't dark. Green Lantern was DC's attempt at a Marvel film and it was pretty lighthearted. A serious approach I think would be best for DC to differentiate itself from Marvel's output. Iron Man 3 and Avengers aside, all of Marvel studios films were pretty cookie cutter in terms of how they handled things. Hopefully it was just them seeing an origin template that worked and applied it to the rest of the films, but even though I enjoyed Captain America, by the end of summer 2011 I was getting tired out by superhero films because they were all basically the same movie.

"This is why The Dark Knight's musings on the nature of chaos and order were largely sophomoric Philosophy 101 aphorisms" - So what? It may be sophomoric but it's still a hell of a lot more substance than what we usually get in big budget blockbuster films. People said the same thing about The Matrix and how it's philosophy is something you could probably get in an evening class at college, but it's still aspiring to be something more than the usual blockbuster and I think with both films it works out quite well.

"TDKR had a hopelessly half-cooked commentary on Occupy going on" - See I don't think it's a commentary at all. If you look at the story of TDKR, it's all really about a revenge story on the villains part. They use the idea of people rising up against the rich but that's a story that's been used hundreds of times in fiction, the actual influence was A Tale of Two Cities. It's the fact that the film was released at the time of Occupy that people immediately associated the two, when actually the film was midway through shooting when Occupy started. That's an association brought on board from your perspective, not intentioned by the creators of the film.

(in reply to Olaf)
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