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Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop?

 
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Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:05:15 PM   
The Hooded Man


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Well it's a bit harsh to call it a flop but has it underperformed compared to expectation? My local multiplex isn't showing it after today and my mate who works there said they haven't had many people into see it over the past fortnight and that Gatsby, Fast And Furious and Iron Man 3 have them queuing around the block. Then there's talk of how it has slightly underperformed compared to expectations at the box office that while it has made sightly more than the previous film if you factor in the cost of going to see a 3D film it hasn't performed better at all and the fact it cost significantly more is worrying the studio.
Could it be this year's Superman Returns or is just a fact that women won't go to see a Star Trek film no matter how you dress it up?

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:08:47 PM   
Rgirvan44


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All depends on how steep the fall is this weekend, really. I could see it struggle to hit 200M in the States, but international might save it.

Bit of a shocker really - I dislike the film, but you would think the goodwill from the last one would have carried it.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:11:03 PM   
elab49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hooded Man

Well it's a bit harsh to call it a flop but has it underperformed compared to expectation? My local multiplex isn't showing it after today and my mate who works there said they haven't had many people into see it over the past fortnight and that Gatsby, Fast And Furious and Iron Man 3 have them queuing around the block. Then there's talk of how it has slightly underperformed compared to expectations at the box office that while it has made sightly more than the previous film if you factor in the cost of going to see a 3D film it hasn't performed better at all and the fact it cost significantly more is worrying the studio.
Could it be this year's Superman Returns r is just a fact that women won't go to see a Star Trek film no matter how you dress it up?


Where did women suddenly appear to explain the price of bread?

I like Star Trek. I don't like Abrams Star Trek. So I'm not going because I disliked the first one.


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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:11:54 PM   
The Hooded Man


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I agree. As a dyed in the wool Trekkie I thought the film was brilliant, yes it had a lot of issues, but I just put them down to my own expectations of what should and shouldn' happen, but overall I thought it was a cracking slice of entertainment.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:13:55 PM   
Rgirvan44


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I think there is a ceiling when it comes to Trek, and the last one hit it. Maybe there is just too much out at the moment. Might have worked better as the first blockbuster out the gate. At the moment it is drinking Iron Mans exhaust fumes. Also international is better, but hardly ground breaking.



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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:14:00 PM   
The Hooded Man


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49


quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hooded Man

Well it's a bit harsh to call it a flop but has it underperformed compared to expectation? My local multiplex isn't showing it after today and my mate who works there said they haven't had many people into see it over the past fortnight and that Gatsby, Fast And Furious and Iron Man 3 have them queuing around the block. Then there's talk of how it has slightly underperformed compared to expectations at the box office that while it has made sightly more than the previous film if you factor in the cost of going to see a 3D film it hasn't performed better at all and the fact it cost significantly more is worrying the studio.
Could it be this year's Superman Returns r is just a fact that women won't go to see a Star Trek film no matter how you dress it up?


Where did women suddenly appear to explain the price of bread?

I like Star Trek. I don't like Abrams Star Trek. So I'm not going because I disliked the first one.



Ah sorry Elab. I was missing a point there. Just that while Avengers and other box office monsters appeal to the female demographic as well Star Trek doesn't so already you're working with less potential customers than other franchises.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:20:07 PM   
elab49


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And what does it need to appeal to the female demographic - painting the Enterprise pink?

Was the first Star Trek successful? Not massively so in comparison to the ridiculous amounts some blockbusters get. But if you answer yes - then the 'female demographic' clearly is not an issue on the sequels success as it either was or was not an issue in the first one. And there is no evidence to suggest that would be different now (as opposed to no evidence this is even a factor in the first place - you used the word 'fact' and pulled it out as your only explanation as to why. Why is that? It's clearly not fact because I've just said I like Star Trek.

The first one made under $400m, the new one's about half that now. Anyone who didn't like the 1st one is unlikely to go back and they've done little to bring new viewers in. Isn't that the more likely answer?

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:23:08 PM   
Rgirvan44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

And what does it need to appeal to the female demographic - painting the Enterprise pink?

Was the first Star Trek successful? Not massively so in comparison to the ridiculous amounts some blockbusters get. But if you answer yes - then the 'female demographic' clearly is not an issue on the sequels success as it either was or was not an issue in the first one. And there is no evidence to suggest that would be different now (as opposed to no evidence this is even a factor in the first place - you used the word 'fact' and pulled it out as your only explanation as to why. Why is that? It's clearly not fact because I've just said I like Star Trek.

The first one made under $400m, the new one's about half that now. Anyone who didn't like the 1st one is unlikely to go back and they've done little to bring new viewers in. Isn't that the more likely answer?


It was the most successful Star Trek movie ever made, which considering where the franchise was, should have been a good sign.

The best comparison is with Batman. Trek 09' was a reboot after the last film was a flop and critical failure. It did solid, but not amazing business (Like Begins) but was well received and did well on the home formats.

I am sure Paramount were hoping for some sort of Dark Knight style jump in profits. Maybe they should have made it sooner, and not let Abram's run off and do his Amblin fanfilm.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:31:18 PM   
The Hooded Man


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The comparison with Batman Begins is fascinating. I remember it made less than Superman Returns but yet it got a sequel and Superman didn't, the same way Tron Legacy made more than Star Trek but didn't get a sequel. There were also rumours that Paramount were very unhappy there was a four year gap between Star Trek and Into Darkness, they feared any momentum might be lost.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 2:54:55 PM   
directorscut


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The film has a production cost of $190m. For a huge budget summer blockbuster you can add anywhere between $50m-$100m for marketing. Let's be conservative and say the total for this movie was $250m. That means it needs to gross $500m WW to break even, which it won't do.

Clearly Paramount were expecting $300m + in the US and $200m + overseas.

I suspect the next Trek film will have a severely reduced budget.

quote:

It was the most successful Star Trek movie ever made, which considering where the franchise was, should have been a good sign.


Adjusted for inflation The Motion Picture is still the highest grossing Star Trek film worldwide with $440 million. In pure profit Wrath of Khan is the most successful making 11x its budget.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 3:33:46 PM   
Cool Breeze


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Bit early to declae STID a flop, its only been out a week a half !

It topped the box office on its opening weekend even though it made slightly less in the same time as Trek '09.

However it has performed FAR above the last film internationally.An increase of EIGHTY PERCENT.

There will certainly be another Trek film in 2016 to capitalise on the fiftieth anniversary.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 3:38:00 PM   
Rgirvan44


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Bit early to declae STID a flop, its only been out a week a half !

It topped the box office on its opening weekend even though it made slightly less in the same time as Trek '09.

However it has performed FAR above the last film internationally.An increase of EIGHTY PERCENT.

There will certainly be another Trek film in 2016 to capitalise on the fiftieth anniversary.


But that increase only looks impressive before you realise it made 130M internationally last time. Even if it did 100% more business, it would only hit half of the total Paramount need for it to be an outright hit.

As I say, this weekend will be proof of the pudding, but I could could see a massive fall - Hangover and Fast and Furious are going to suck up the youth market, the kids have Epic and Iron Man is still running strong.


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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 3:51:23 PM   
musht


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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Hooded Man

The comparison with Batman Begins is fascinating. I remember it made less than Superman Returns but yet it got a sequel and Superman didn't, the same way Tron Legacy made more than Star Trek but didn't get a sequel. There were also rumours that Paramount were very unhappy there was a four year gap between Star Trek and Into Darkness, they feared any momentum might be lost.

I suspect that critical acclaim had something to do with these examples. Batman was a fresh take on the superhero genre whilst also being very good from a critical POV whereas Superman Returns was a rehash/return to a take on the superhero genre which was fresh in the 70s and was in essence dull.

Tron Legacy received average reviews at best with the majority of punters expressing disappointment, although I think I'm right in saying that a sequel is still being talked about.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 4:03:40 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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As has been said here and in another thread, it is not a flop but it isn't doing as well as expected. It is underperforming in the US which is very important to the studio and the numbers guys. Also, this one was in 3D and IMAX which costs more, ticket-wise, and which the first film was not. So, actually less people have seen it at the cinema than they did the first one......

I have my problems with the film but I enjoyed the majority of it.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 4:08:34 PM   
Scruffybobby

 

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It does seem to be underperfoming a bit, but there's a way for it to go. I do think that opening so close behind Iron Man 3 has hurt it a bit. It will make its money back eventaully via DVD and TV sales and the like.  Shame as I really enjoyed it. It's a bit throwaway but great fun whilst it lasts

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 23/5/2013 7:09:04 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

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To be honest I'm glad it's underperforming, next time they might actually get a decent script and make it actually resemble Star Trek a bit.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 1:16:57 AM   
Mister Coe

 

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Personally, I liked it better than IRON MAN 3, but I doubt there'll be a third one, if the whole Star Trek franchise is going to continue, might be worth finding a fresh idea to put it back on TV? Perhaps a harder take on the tale on HBO or the like?

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 7:03:40 AM   
Chronicle

 

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It might just be in my country, but I have the feeling that just nobody knows this movie is coming out here. Of course I know it thanks to the internet and i'm kind of excited to see it since I enjoyed the first one (never saw Strar Trek before that) but I see that almost all of my friends have no clue that this movie is almost releasing here. Everyone is seeing Gatsby, Fast 6 or Iron man so I don't think it will score big in my country (eventhough we have a tiny market :p)

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 8:39:27 AM   
Willy Wood

 

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Bad marketing, too close to Iron Man and generally average reviews have left the film an also ran. Personally I didn't think the first reboot was that good.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 9:02:47 AM   
sanchia


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I don't think it will be a flop and it will make its money back. What it will do is under-perform on what the expectation was which may lead to a future film being unlikely.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 11:07:05 AM   
Cool Breeze


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To use another franchise as a comparison..

Expendables 2 cost more to make than the original film.

It underperformed domestically but cleaned up overseas.

Expendables 3 is coming out next year.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 3:10:00 PM   
ripperman


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I think generally the critical response and bad word of mouth has hit it hard. Itís not a great film by any means. Itís not even a good one really, average at best Iíd say with a title that doesnít entice an on the spot ticket gamble when choosing. Actually itís a bloody awful title and could have really and probably still is alienating the casual on the fence cinema goer.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 3:27:32 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

To use another franchise as a comparison..

Expendables 2 cost more to make than the original film.

It underperformed domestically but cleaned up overseas.

Expendables 3 is coming out next year.



Expendables 2 had around half the production budget of Into Darkness, though.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 3:49:48 PM   
directorscut


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The Expendables 2 grossed 3 times its production budget. Star Trek won't do that.

There will undoubtedly be another Star Trek film (at a reduced budget no doubt) because the series is a cash cow for Paramount, but that doesn't mean this film isn't a disappointment.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 24/5/2013 4:58:11 PM   
Dave Oz

 

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I think Abrams was counting on the hordes of Cumberbatch fans (mostly of a female persuasion although I might be wrong) to flock to the film to see their beloved in a major villainous role.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 25/5/2013 12:39:18 PM   
spark1

 

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deadline estimates a pretty decent 2nd weekend for 'darkness'-

http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/crowded-memorial-weekend-kick-off-hangover-iii-opens-to-hot-3-1m-late-shows/

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 25/5/2013 2:04:45 PM   
directorscut


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It's a good hold - considering the competition it could have been much, much worse - but it ends the film's chance of passing the '09 film domestically.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 25/5/2013 2:34:00 PM   
iheartmovies

 

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I don't like that the focus of the discussion of whether Star Trek Into Darkness is a flop seems to be focused around how it is performing at the cinema. Firstly you have to consider DVD, mercahndise sales etc. that will follow on. Secondly and more importantly is it a good film, the answer to which is not really in my opinion. It tries to borrow too much of what was great about TWOK but lacks charm and sophistication, I just don't believe in the friendship between Kirk and Spock, the chemistry just isn't there.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 28/5/2013 10:23:45 AM   
spark1

 

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BO up to $257mil worldwide during memorial weekend.

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RE: Is Star Trek Into Darkness a flop? - 3/6/2013 5:49:08 PM   
bydabeachman


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I feel that this film was a brilliant re-look at an age old conflict struggle, giving us more history to the legendary story and interesting relationship between Kirk and ... you know who. The action was full force the whole time and the twist with Kirk being in the container was smart and made more sense having Spock go after him, actually posing a threat not just a insta-win like with Kirk. Great film, amazing cast as always, Super stoked Simon Pegg had more of a role, I want more Karl Urban though.

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