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Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 27/2/2013 11:27:25 AM   
Cloud Cuckoo


Posts: 408
Joined: 7/2/2013
From: Mind your own
...for the heinous crime of pre-marital sex. Oh, and it looks like she's a rape victim.

See HERE.

It is just incredible. Utterly, utterly incredible.

The girl will receive her sentence when she turns 18 unless she opts to receive it sooner. I don't know what's more cruel: administering 100 lashes to the vulnerable and still developing body of a 15-year-old girl, or making her wait three years in terror and dread of it.

I won't claim to be well-informed about Sharia law, but it appears to be brutally misogynistic. There was a documentary on telly a couple of years ago about another 15-year-old girl, this time in Iran, who was hanged for the crime of being raped. She was considered more culpable than her rapist, who was given the lesser sentence of flogging. If memory serves, his punishment wasn't even as severe as what this Maldives girl has been sentenced to.

What a fucking world we live in.

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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 27/2/2013 11:35:33 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10462
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
Heart-breaking and maddening at the same time isn't it? Seems the Maldives is really struggling with violence, murder and religious extremism at the moment.

As tourism is the biggest earner for the Maldives it strikes you that if people said "hey, I'm not going to go on vacation there and support your brutal and dark ages laws" it might have some influence.

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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 27/2/2013 11:47:16 AM   
Cloud Cuckoo


Posts: 408
Joined: 7/2/2013
From: Mind your own

quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

As tourism is the biggest earner for the Maldives it strikes you that if people said "hey, I'm not going to go on vacation there and support your brutal and dark ages laws" it might have some influence.


That's a good suggestion and one I wish people would take up. Do you think it would be enough to provoke a change in legislation though? I may not know much about Sharia law, but it doesn't strike me as one that would be susceptible to financial pressures...

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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 27/2/2013 6:39:23 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18309
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From: Norwich
Give it 20 years and they will probably cease to exist anyway considering they are going the way of Atlantis.

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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 27/2/2013 7:55:53 PM   
Woger


Posts: 3815
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia

Give it 20 years and they will probably cease to exist anyway considering they are going the way of Atlantis.


But unfortunately they will make it off the island.

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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 28/2/2013 12:37:09 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloud Cuckoo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

As tourism is the biggest earner for the Maldives it strikes you that if people said "hey, I'm not going to go on vacation there and support your brutal and dark ages laws" it might have some influence.


That's a good suggestion and one I wish people would take up. Do you think it would be enough to provoke a change in legislation though? I may not know much about Sharia law, but it doesn't strike me as one that would be susceptible to financial pressures...


Not just Sharia, any code of law that has strong support by the right important fragment of its population won't go down because of mere financial pressures (hint to an extent: the Shiite Islamic Theocracy of Iran) or "OMG, I don't like what you did there so I'm not visiting the island TAKE THAT ULTRA-ORTHODOX 7TH CENTURY ISLAMIC LAWS", the pressure for change and a moratorium for this law has to be through more substantial outside pressure from outside and a stronger pressure from its internal local population (like, one I can think of: women being allowed to vote in elections in Saudi Arabia). The Maldives is a country that already doesn't practice some of the Sharia penalties (like stoning or cutting of hands) so it has to be internal if something has to change. So no, I cannot ever think of that as actually leading to something.

Or you could just invade them, colonize them and force them to force it into something we like. YOU CANNOT DENY ITS EFFECTIVENESS

< Message edited by Deviation -- 28/2/2013 12:41:42 AM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 28/2/2013 10:42:59 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10462
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloud Cuckoo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

As tourism is the biggest earner for the Maldives it strikes you that if people said "hey, I'm not going to go on vacation there and support your brutal and dark ages laws" it might have some influence.


That's a good suggestion and one I wish people would take up. Do you think it would be enough to provoke a change in legislation though? I may not know much about Sharia law, but it doesn't strike me as one that would be susceptible to financial pressures...


Not just Sharia, any code of law that has strong support by the right important fragment of its population won't go down because of mere financial pressures (hint to an extent: the Shiite Islamic Theocracy of Iran) or "OMG, I don't like what you did there so I'm not visiting the island TAKE THAT ULTRA-ORTHODOX 7TH CENTURY ISLAMIC LAWS", the pressure for change and a moratorium for this law has to be through more substantial outside pressure from outside and a stronger pressure from its internal local population (like, one I can think of: women being allowed to vote in elections in Saudi Arabia). The Maldives is a country that already doesn't practice some of the Sharia penalties (like stoning or cutting of hands) so it has to be internal if something has to change. So no, I cannot ever think of that as actually leading to something.

Or you could just invade them, colonize them and force them to force it into something we like. YOU CANNOT DENY ITS EFFECTIVENESS


But how do I do that, or influence that? I'm not an MP or a member of the UN. All I can do is say I'm not giving you my tourism dollars. Surely if everyone did that there'd be a pressure on their economy, no? Given these figures (admittedly from Wiki)

Tourism is the largest industry in the Maldives, accounting for 28% of GDP and more than 60% of the Maldives' foreign exchange receipts. It powered the current GDP per capita to expand 265% in the 1980s and a further 115% in the 1990s. Over 90% of government tax revenue flows in from import duties and tourism-related taxes.



< Message edited by Professor Moriarty -- 28/2/2013 10:43:25 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 28/2/2013 8:15:00 PM   
Fit Kisto

 

Posts: 476
Joined: 15/8/2007
The documentary from last year, The Island President, gives a really strong overview of how bad things have become there. Very frustrating, in light of how much progress President Nasheed was making before he was deposed and how much his administration were poised to contribute to promoting climate change on the international agenda.

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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 28/2/2013 10:46:05 PM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13303
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloud Cuckoo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

As tourism is the biggest earner for the Maldives it strikes you that if people said "hey, I'm not going to go on vacation there and support your brutal and dark ages laws" it might have some influence.


That's a good suggestion and one I wish people would take up. Do you think it would be enough to provoke a change in legislation though? I may not know much about Sharia law, but it doesn't strike me as one that would be susceptible to financial pressures...


Not just Sharia, any code of law that has strong support by the right important fragment of its population won't go down because of mere financial pressures (hint to an extent: the Shiite Islamic Theocracy of Iran) or "OMG, I don't like what you did there so I'm not visiting the island TAKE THAT ULTRA-ORTHODOX 7TH CENTURY ISLAMIC LAWS", the pressure for change and a moratorium for this law has to be through more substantial outside pressure from outside and a stronger pressure from its internal local population (like, one I can think of: women being allowed to vote in elections in Saudi Arabia). The Maldives is a country that already doesn't practice some of the Sharia penalties (like stoning or cutting of hands) so it has to be internal if something has to change. So no, I cannot ever think of that as actually leading to something.

Or you could just invade them, colonize them and force them to force it into something we like. YOU CANNOT DENY ITS EFFECTIVENESS


Just to be clear, could you clarify where this outside pressure is coming from? Outside?


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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 2/3/2013 3:11:31 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

But how do I do that, or influence that? I'm not an MP or a member of the UN. All I can do is say I'm not giving you my tourism dollars. Surely if everyone did that there'd be a pressure on their economy, no? Given these figures (admittedly from Wiki)

Tourism is the largest industry in the Maldives, accounting for 28% of GDP and more than 60% of the Maldives' foreign exchange receipts. It powered the current GDP per capita to expand 265% in the 1980s and a further 115% in the 1990s. Over 90% of government tax revenue flows in from import duties and tourism-related taxes.




Possibly nothing unless you don't have a high position of influence to actually force a country into changing it's laws, especially one that is not exactly totally free and democratic. Seriously, what makes you think that they will think "Oh some foriegner doesn't like my laws, I'm going to change it even though they barely affect him" and not "Oh some foriegner doesn't like my laws, fuck him". If somebody believes something to be right above all things, their economy becoming poorer is very rarely a reason on why they will suddenly take it down into moratorium. I honestly cannot think of a single case of when that, in human history, has happened, especially in the state the Maldives are right now.

quote:

Just to be clear, could you clarify where this outside pressure is coming from? Outside?




I was being ambigious for a reason, saying there is one or three concrete ways to stop a thing would be as daft as saying there are none, but starving or isolating a country to change a law isn't something I have EVER found to be effective. Trying to influence using your own propaganda (I don't mean this word in the derogative meaning it has right now) or strong pressures from other nation's governments that they are tied closely to seem more sensible.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 2/3/2013 5:11:56 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10462
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
Didn't South Africa eventually cave in to being strangled by the international community?

My point would also be that by not spending my money there I'm not supporting a Medieval regime, so I sleep at night.

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Post #: 11
RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 3/3/2013 3:41:07 AM   
Cloud Cuckoo


Posts: 408
Joined: 7/2/2013
From: Mind your own
I'm stoked that this thread has provoked an interesting intellectual debate.

I have great sympathy with Professor Moriarty's views but concede, like Dev, that there is bugger all we as conscientious individuals can do to make a difference, as terrible and frustrating as that is.

I totally agree with boycotting an island/nation where you disagree with its laws. As an individual, that is really your only power. I would hope any decent person would refrain from visiting a place with abhorrent laws (unless the purpose was to expose them, but then we are not all Kate Adie). I would never knowingly holiday in a place where atrocities happen.

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Post #: 12
RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 3/3/2013 12:46:17 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

Didn't South Africa eventually cave in to being strangled by the international community?


There's also a heck load of resistance from within the nation itself with figureheads like Tutu and Mandela and those doing it where also big international figures, not just your random folk.

quote:


My point would also be that by not spending my money there I'm not supporting a Medieval regime, so I sleep at night.


I can understand that, though I still don't see going there or not going there as less or more supportive of the regime, the biggest one to get the hit should any act of starving the country actually happen is still the populace.

And really where does it stop? Will you stop getting things that have parts of China or oil becomes it comes from Saudi Arabia (an Islamic country which is way worse then this one in every concievable way) because they are countries whose laws are rather repulsive?


< Message edited by Deviation -- 3/3/2013 12:47:49 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to Professor Moriarty)
Post #: 13
RE: Flogging sentence for 15-year-old girl - 3/3/2013 1:29:44 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10462
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation
s also a heck load of resistance from within the nation itself with figureheads like Tutu and Mandela and those doing it where also big international figures, not just your random folk.

quote:


My point would also be that by not spending my money there I'm not supporting a Medieval regime, so I sleep at night.


I can understand that, though I still don't see going there or not going there as less or more supportive of the regime, the biggest one to get the hit should any act of starving the country actually happen is still the populace.

And really where does it stop? Will you stop getting things that have parts of China or oil becomes it comes from Saudi Arabia (an Islamic country which is way worse then this one in every concievable way) because they are countries whose laws are rather repulsive?



If I have the choice. Then yes I do source goods that I consider to be ethical. Dunno where the petrol down the road comes from. But if there were two pumps one with "from Saudi" and one with "not from Saudi". I know which one I'd choose.

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Post #: 14
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