RE: Utterly awful.

Follow @empiremagazine

Forum Home

Register for Free!

Log In

Moderator Tickets

FAQ

Users Online

RE: Utterly awful.

Logged in as: Guest

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Film Reviews >> RE: Utterly awful.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Utterly awful. - 11/3/2013 3:04:27 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

When general consensus is so "out of whack" with yours, it's perhaps time to admit that it's just not your thing and move on, instead of just being convinced that everyone else is just blind as to how bad it is.

_____________________________

"It's amazing how many supposed 'plot holes' turn out to now be plot holes if you'd just pay attention", Me

(in reply to horribleives)

Post #: 61

RE: Utterly awful. - 11/3/2013 3:11:13 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6227
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

Then perhaps I've been taking reviews far too seriously. Even so, for Empire to have given this film 5 stars, and for me to think it's only 1, makes me think Empire reviews are no longer reliable for my own tastes. Pass the Sight and Sound..

You're never going to get a magazine/film-website which is "reliable for your own tastes" because film by its very nature is subjective. It's impossible. How long will it be until you angry at Sight & Sound for publishing a review with which you'll totally disagree?

Mark Kermode recently called Cloud Atlas a failure that doesn't hang together. I totally disagree with him on that but that doesn't mean he's wrong. And I'm pretty sure Olly Richards wouldn't disagree with your negative reaction to Stoker in the way you did with his reaction.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 11/3/2013 3:13:07 PM >

_____________________________

C*** and mocker of board members since March, 2011

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 62

RE: Utterly awful. - 11/3/2013 8:03:57 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

When general consensus is so "out of whack" with yours, it's perhaps time to admit that it's just not your thing and move on, instead of just being convinced that everyone else is just blind as to how bad it is.

I admit, it's not my thing. (I'm moving on)

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 63

RE: Utterly awful. - 11/3/2013 8:13:54 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

Then perhaps I've been taking reviews far too seriously. Even so, for Empire to have given this film 5 stars, and for me to think it's only 1, makes me think Empire reviews are no longer reliable for my own tastes. Pass the Sight and Sound..

You're never going to get a magazine/film-website which is "reliable for your own tastes" because film by its very nature is subjective. It's impossible. How long will it be until you angry at Sight & Sound for publishing a review with which you'll totally disagree?

Mark Kermode recently called Cloud Atlas a failure that doesn't hang together. I totally disagree with him on that but that doesn't mean he's wrong. And I'm pretty sure Olly Richards wouldn't disagree with your negative reaction to Stoker in the way you did with his reaction.

All true, except I couldn't care less how Olly Richards disagrees with me. He's entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to mine. I happen to think he's wrong about what he wrote, and the fact that he represents a film publication makes me react even stronger.

To wrap this up for me, it's been interesting discussing film criticism. But I still maintain that gold standards exist, and whenever those standards are challenged (such as Empire's 5 star review of Stoker) I will be first in line to defend them.

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 64

RE: Utterly awful. - 11/3/2013 10:27:33 PM

Qwerty Norris

Posts: 3152
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

Yes, they should play this in lecture theatres to show how not to make a film. For that, this film is worth studying.

It's the kind of film made by people who think they understand how films/storytelling works, but actually don't.

I'm sorry but that is unicorn manure stinking from the high heavens.

There's a massive difference between something you don't like & something which is actually crap. Fair enough if you hated it (I can understand that), but to insinuate that cinematic incompetence was at work here is a complete nonsense & extremely disingenuous to the processes of film-making.

In the study of "how not to make a film", it is the Room which is your starting point.

_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. In The Fog
4. Good Vibrations
5. McCullin
6. Beyond the Hills
7. The Place Beyond the Pines
8. Wreck-it Ralph
9. Shell
10. In The House

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 65

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 1:26:31 AM

superdan

Posts: 7238
Joined: 31/7/2008

This conversation reminds me of the Scream 4 thread

(in reply to Qwerty Norris)

Post #: 66

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 2:42:55 AM

benny the jet

Posts: 2330
Joined: 27/8/2008
From: Over there

I thought it was ok. i feel left out by my indifference

_____________________________

That means we only have thirty minutes to get you up that tree

I fucking love tea. Its my favourite drink after coffee and alcohol

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=585511933

(in reply to superdan)

Post #: 67

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 9:30:09 AM

DancingClown

Posts: 3589
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

All true, except I couldn't care less how Olly Richards disagrees with me. He's entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Okay. But...

quote:

I happen to think he's wrong about what he wrote, and the fact that he represents a film publication makes me react even stronger.

I thought you just said you couldn't care less? Why are you getting your knickers in such a twist? Calm down. It's a film, not a rectal exam.

quote:

To wrap this up for me, it's been interesting discussing film criticism. But I still maintain that gold standards exist, and whenever those standards are challenged (such as Empire's 5 star review of Stoker) I will be first in line to defend them.

Such pomposity. Quite laughable, really.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 68

Exquisite - 12/3/2013 10:42:41 AM

Hawros

Posts: 22
Joined: 24/2/2006
From: Nottingham

Dark, unnerving, unpredictable. A great film which will stay with you, and best seen blind.

(in reply to Empire Admin)

Post #: 69

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 11:04:42 AM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

All true, except I couldn't care less how Olly Richards disagrees with me. He's entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Okay. But...

quote:

I happen to think he's wrong about what he wrote, and the fact that he represents a film publication makes me react even stronger.

I thought you just said you couldn't care less? Why are you getting your knickers in such a twist? Calm down. It's a film, not a rectal exam.

quote:

To wrap this up for me, it's been interesting discussing film criticism. But I still maintain that gold standards exist, and whenever those standards are challenged (such as Empire's 5 star review of Stoker) I will be first in line to defend them.

Such pomposity. Quite laughable, really.

Not pompous at all. I'm passionate about my opinions. (which of course this is merely that, my opinion. Obviously)

(in reply to DancingClown)

Post #: 70

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 11:05:52 AM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qwerty Norris

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

Yes, they should play this in lecture theatres to show how not to make a film. For that, this film is worth studying.

It's the kind of film made by people who think they understand how films/storytelling works, but actually don't.

I'm sorry but that is unicorn manure stinking from the high heavens.

There's a massive difference between something you don't like & something which is actually crap. Fair enough if you hated it (I can understand that), but to insinuate that cinematic incompetence was at work here is a complete nonsense & extremely disingenuous to the processes of film-making.

In the study of "how not to make a film", it is the Room which is your starting point.

Funny you should bring up The Room - because when I laughed out loud at this film for the 4th or 5th time, it was The Room that came to mind. I'm pretty sure Stoker will be next in line for cult comedy screenings & audience participation everywhere. (the piano duet is right up there with Johnny's love scenes).

I'd say it was less cinematic incompetence (the visuals were quite gorgeous throughout, nobody can deny that), and more narrative/storytelling incompetence. And whenever such gorgeous visuals have little to do with the narrative (such as many of the skilled yet utterly irrelevant camera moves), they fail too.

< Message edited by jrewing1000 -- 12/3/2013 11:10:39 AM >

(in reply to Qwerty Norris)

Post #: 71

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 11:21:06 AM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6227
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

I haven't seen Stoker yet but I refuse to believe it's comparable to The Room.

Park Chan Wook's story-telling style might irk some, and that's understandable, but he's technically accomplished. Tommy Wiseau is a talentless chancer who made a really bad and boring film.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 12/3/2013 11:22:19 AM >

_____________________________

C*** and mocker of board members since March, 2011

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 72

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 11:24:30 AM

horribleives

Posts: 4183
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

All true, except I couldn't care less how Olly Richards disagrees with me. He's entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Okay. But...

quote:

I happen to think he's wrong about what he wrote, and the fact that he represents a film publication makes me react even stronger.

I thought you just said you couldn't care less? Why are you getting your knickers in such a twist? Calm down. It's a film, not a rectal exam.

quote:

To wrap this up for me, it's been interesting discussing film criticism. But I still maintain that gold standards exist, and whenever those standards are challenged (such as Empire's 5 star review of Stoker) I will be first in line to defend them.

Such pomposity. Quite laughable, really.

Not pompous at all. I'm passionate about my opinions. (which of course this is merely that, my opinion. Obviously)

We're all passionate about our opinions. But it's not passionate to suggest other people's opinions are wrong - it's pompous.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 73

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 11:43:39 AM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

All true, except I couldn't care less how Olly Richards disagrees with me. He's entitled to his opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

Okay. But...

quote:

I happen to think he's wrong about what he wrote, and the fact that he represents a film publication makes me react even stronger.

I thought you just said you couldn't care less? Why are you getting your knickers in such a twist? Calm down. It's a film, not a rectal exam.

quote:

To wrap this up for me, it's been interesting discussing film criticism. But I still maintain that gold standards exist, and whenever those standards are challenged (such as Empire's 5 star review of Stoker) I will be first in line to defend them.

Such pomposity. Quite laughable, really.

Not pompous at all. I'm passionate about my opinions. (which of course this is merely that, my opinion. Obviously)

We're all passionate about our opinions. But it's not passionate to suggest other people's opinions are wrong - it's pompous.

My entire argument here is about gold standards. If someone came to me and said they thought Citizen Kane was the worst film ever made, I'd say they were wrong. And I'd be right. Not pompous.

(in reply to horribleives)

Post #: 74

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 11:44:45 AM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I haven't seen Stoker yet but I refuse to believe it's comparable to The Room.

Park Chan Wook's story-telling style might irk some, and that's understandable, but he's technically accomplished. Tommy Wiseau is a talentless chancer who made a really bad and boring film.

I didn't say it was comparable to The Room. I said it came to mind. Of course it's not that bad. But I wouldn't be surprised if Stoker ended up in the same ballpark.

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 75

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 11:47:14 AM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

No... you'd be pompous. Just because something is popularly regarded as one of the best things ever, doesn't mean everyone has to conform to that.

_____________________________

"It's amazing how many supposed 'plot holes' turn out to now be plot holes if you'd just pay attention", Me

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 76

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:11:34 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

No... you'd be pompous. Just because something is popularly regarded as one of the best things ever, doesn't mean everyone has to conform to that.

Of course. But surely, SURELY, when it comes to appreciation of art, there is room for right and wrong? Citizen Kane is not regarded as one of the finest films ever made just because a lot of people say so, but because the evidence is there. Same goes for Shakespeare, Monet, Mozart etc. Are you saying that if someone said to you that Mozart made crap music, they'd be right or wrong? (opinion aside)

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 77

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:13:38 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

No... you'd be pompous. Just because something is popularly regarded as one of the best things ever, doesn't mean everyone has to conform to that.

Of course. But surely, SURELY, when it comes to appreciation of art, there is room for right and wrong? Citizen Kane is not regarded as one of the finest films ever made just because a lot of people say so, but because the evidence is there. Same goes for Shakespeare, Monet, Mozart etc. Are you saying that if someone said to you that Mozart made crap music, they'd be right or wrong? (opinion aside)

quote:

Forum Home

I get the impression you're more concerned with being fair, than with upholding a gold standard for art appreciation.

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 78

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:16:21 PM

ElephantBoy

Posts: 7359
Joined: 13/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I haven't seen Stoker yet but I refuse to believe it's comparable to The Room.

Park Chan Wook's story-telling style might irk some, and that's understandable, but he's technically accomplished. Tommy Wiseau is a talentless chancer who made a really bad and boring film.

Whats the Room?

(in reply to MonsterCat)

Post #: 79

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:18:33 PM

OPEN YOUR EYES

Posts: 3476
Joined: 5/2/2012
From: Living on Lynch's quiff

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I haven't seen Stoker yet but I refuse to believe it's comparable to The Room.

Park Chan Wook's story-telling style might irk some, and that's understandable, but he's technically accomplished. Tommy Wiseau is a talentless chancer who made a really bad and boring film.

Whats the Room?

Don't go there.

_____________________________

?eeffoc emos ekil uoy dluow

(in reply to ElephantBoy)

Post #: 80

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:19:28 PM

AxlReznor

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

No... you'd be pompous. Just because something is popularly regarded as one of the best things ever, doesn't mean everyone has to conform to that.

Of course. But surely, SURELY, when it comes to appreciation of art, there is room for right and wrong? Citizen Kane is not regarded as one of the finest films ever made just because a lot of people say so, but because the evidence is there. Same goes for Shakespeare, Monet, Mozart etc. Are you saying that if someone said to you that Mozart made crap music, they'd be right or wrong? (opinion aside)

I would disagree with them, but of course if that's what they really think, then that's their prerogative. There is no gold standard in any form of art, because it's all subjective.

_____________________________

"It's amazing how many supposed 'plot holes' turn out to now be plot holes if you'd just pay attention", Me

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 81

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:22:21 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

No... you'd be pompous. Just because something is popularly regarded as one of the best things ever, doesn't mean everyone has to conform to that.

Of course. But surely, SURELY, when it comes to appreciation of art, there is room for right and wrong? Citizen Kane is not regarded as one of the finest films ever made just because a lot of people say so, but because the evidence is there. Same goes for Shakespeare, Monet, Mozart etc. Are you saying that if someone said to you that Mozart made crap music, they'd be right or wrong? (opinion aside)

I would disagree with them, but of course if that's what they really think, then that's their prerogative. There is no gold standard in any form of art, because it's all subjective.

Agree with your first point. Disagree with your second.

I think there's a difference between opinion and quality. There do exist gold standards, however general, however basic. Mozart wrote music of higher quality than my 10 year old nephew does. That's not to say I value my 10 year old nephew's music any less. But his music is not as good as Mozart's. Fact.

(in reply to AxlReznor)

Post #: 82

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:26:21 PM

ElephantBoy

Posts: 7359
Joined: 13/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I haven't seen Stoker yet but I refuse to believe it's comparable to The Room.

Park Chan Wook's story-telling style might irk some, and that's understandable, but he's technically accomplished. Tommy Wiseau is a talentless chancer who made a really bad and boring film.

Whats the Room?

Don't go there.

Damn it I so want to now

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)

Post #: 83

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:29:29 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

I haven't seen Stoker yet but I refuse to believe it's comparable to The Room.

Park Chan Wook's story-telling style might irk some, and that's understandable, but he's technically accomplished. Tommy Wiseau is a talentless chancer who made a really bad and boring film.

Whats the Room?

Don't go there.

Damn it I so want to now

The Room is a mindbogglingly awful film which has garnered cult attention in both the US and now the UK (screenings at the Prince Charles cinema in London). Imagine a porn film without the sex. You're kinda along the right lines.

(in reply to ElephantBoy)

Post #: 84

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:36:56 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3589
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

I think there's a difference between opinion and quality. There do exist gold standards, however general, however basic. Mozart wrote music of higher quality than my 10 year old nephew does. That's not to say I value my 10 year old nephew's music any less. But his music is not as good as Mozart's. Fact.

That's a fairly weak and simplistic analogy that doesn't really apply here.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 85

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:40:36 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

I think there's a difference between opinion and quality. There do exist gold standards, however general, however basic. Mozart wrote music of higher quality than my 10 year old nephew does. That's not to say I value my 10 year old nephew's music any less. But his music is not as good as Mozart's. Fact.

That's a fairly weak and simplistic analogy that doesn't really apply here.

Accepted. But my point is that there ARE gold standards, no matter how simplistic the examples. So when people say there's no such thing as a 'bad film' or a 'good film', I'd say they were wrong.

(in reply to DancingClown)

Post #: 86

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:51:19 PM

Discodez

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/9/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

I think there's a difference between opinion and quality. There do exist gold standards, however general, however basic. Mozart wrote music of higher quality than my 10 year old nephew does. That's not to say I value my 10 year old nephew's music any less. But his music is not as good as Mozart's. Fact.

That's a fairly weak and simplistic analogy that doesn't really apply here.

Accepted. But my point is that there ARE gold standards, no matter how simplistic the examples. So when people say there's no such thing as a 'bad film' or a 'good film', I'd say they were wrong.

Can you really have gold standards that apply to art though? A gold standard is generally scientific and quantifiable. Art or appreciation of art is all totally subjective. Citizen Kane is regarded by many movie crititics as the best film ever, but others are of the opinion that it's an overlong and pretentious load of old bollocks. And I don't think I've ever met an Iron Maiden fan who would accept that Mozart is a better composer than Steve Harris.

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 87

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 12:56:20 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3589
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

I think there's a difference between opinion and quality. There do exist gold standards, however general, however basic. Mozart wrote music of higher quality than my 10 year old nephew does. That's not to say I value my 10 year old nephew's music any less. But his music is not as good as Mozart's. Fact.

That's a fairly weak and simplistic analogy that doesn't really apply here.

Accepted. But my point is that there ARE gold standards, no matter how simplistic the examples. So when people say there's no such thing as a 'bad film' or a 'good film', I'd say they were wrong.

But I don't think anyone here is saying that. We're talking about opinions. You admit that opinions vary (as Dalton once said) yet you seem to be claiming that if the film in question is perceived as either excellent or execrable then an opposing viewpoint is factually "wrong" because it doesn't adhere to a pre-conceived notion of quality. To paraphrase that's like saying "all men are created equal, yet some are more equal than others" but substituting the word men with opinions.

Sometimes I shake my head in bafflement if someone fails to see why I love a film (happens here all the time). But if I really dislike a film that has been lauded by others I just feel a bit disappointed and then move on. I don't end up questioning anyone's integrity, even if they are a professional film reviewer.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to jrewing1000)

Post #: 88

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 1:13:55 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

I think there's a difference between opinion and quality. There do exist gold standards, however general, however basic. Mozart wrote music of higher quality than my 10 year old nephew does. That's not to say I value my 10 year old nephew's music any less. But his music is not as good as Mozart's. Fact.

That's a fairly weak and simplistic analogy that doesn't really apply here.

Accepted. But my point is that there ARE gold standards, no matter how simplistic the examples. So when people say there's no such thing as a 'bad film' or a 'good film', I'd say they were wrong.

Can you really have gold standards that apply to art though? A gold standard is generally scientific and quantifiable. Art or appreciation of art is all totally subjective. Citizen Kane is regarded by many movie crititics as the best film ever, but others are of the opinion that it's an overlong and pretentious load of old bollocks. And I don't think I've ever met an Iron Maiden fan who would accept that Mozart is a better composer than Steve Harris.

Maybe not. But it sure feels like you can. To me at least.

(in reply to Discodez)

Post #: 89

RE: Utterly awful. - 12/3/2013 1:18:43 PM

jrewing1000

Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrewing1000

I think there's a difference between opinion and quality. There do exist gold standards, however general, however basic. Mozart wrote music of higher quality than my 10 year old nephew does. That's not to say I value my 10 year old nephew's music any less. But his music is not as good as Mozart's. Fact.

That's a fairly weak and simplistic analogy that doesn't really apply here.

Accepted. But my point is that there ARE gold standards, no matter how simplistic the examples. So when people say there's no such thing as a 'bad film' or a 'good film', I'd say they were wrong.

But I don't think anyone here is saying that. We're talking about opinions. You admit that opinions vary (as Dalton once said) yet you seem to be claiming that if the film in question is perceived as either excellent or execrable then an opposing viewpoint is factually "wrong" because it doesn't adhere to a pre-conceived notion of quality. To paraphrase that's like saying "all men are created equal, yet some are more equal than others" but substituting the word men with opinions.

Sometimes I shake my head in bafflement if someone fails to see why I love a film (happens here all the time). But if I really dislike a film that has been lauded by others I just feel a bit disappointed and then move on. I don't end up questioning anyone's integrity, even if they are a professional film reviewer.

Dalton? From Roadhouse?

I like your last sentence. Gives me hope! Yes I suppose I have questioned someone's integrity as a film reviewer, as I would if a professional music critic rejected Abbey Road as meaningless, unaffecting crap. But the choice is still mine - I either listen to them or I don't. But what also bothers me, is that other people will listen to such opinions and hold them as important. It's happening with X-Factor, people's standards of what makes a good singer are being lowered every year, because of what the 'judges' say. Does that make sense?

(in reply to DancingClown)

Post #: 90