RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A

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RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 11/3/2013 3:53:17 PM

Discodez

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/9/2010

I have a creeping sense of de-ja-vu..

(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 31

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 11/3/2013 5:54:16 PM

Meal

Posts: 7
Joined: 1/3/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meal
It's easier to release it uncut and accept whatever certificate the rating board decides. That's the system the UK should have.

It kind of is, though. Fox were offered an uncut 15 certificate which is what the film deserved. It was their choice not to release it uncut, it was their choice not to accept the certificate the BBFC decided was suitable.

All true, but where the UK crucially differs is that, should the studio elect a lower certificate, the BBFC will tell them exactly what to cut to achieve that certificate, for a fee. Other countries don't offer this service and therefore don't end up with so many cut films in their cinemas.

(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 32

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 12/3/2013 12:31:55 AM

Darth Marenghi

Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez

I have a creeping sense of de-ja-vu..

_____________________________

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Post #: 33

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 12/3/2013 10:31:22 AM

Discodez

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/9/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meal
It's easier to release it uncut and accept whatever certificate the rating board decides. That's the system the UK should have.

It kind of is, though. Fox were offered an uncut 15 certificate which is what the film deserved. It was their choice not to release it uncut, it was their choice not to accept the certificate the BBFC decided was suitable.

All true, but where the UK crucially differs is that, should the studio elect a lower certificate, the BBFC will tell them exactly what to cut to achieve that certificate, for a fee. Other countries don't offer this service and therefore don't end up with so many cut films in their cinemas.

But the reason why this happens is that the major players in the film industry, the big hollywood studios have asked for this service. The reasons are two fold. The first is that they don't want the same problems they have with the MPAA in America where a studio will be told that this film achieves (let's say) an NC17, if you want an R you will have to cut it, but crucially they won't tell the directors producers etc exactly what needs to be cut. Paul Verhoven and Alan Parker have talked in interviews about the problems they had having to trim films such as Robocop and Angel Heart to achieve an R rating (at least over here both we granted 18 certificates and were released uncut in the cinema). I have also heard and read directors being interviewed where they have to go to the MPAA with storyboards (not even rough cuts) and ask what they would be allowed to do to get a family friendly certificate. Christiopher Nolan, in the introduction to the the Dark Knight trilogy scripts, talks about his conversations with the MPAA where he says to them (and I'm paraphrasing) "do you know how difficult it is to do violent scenes and make them look realistic without any blood?".

The second reason the big hollywood studios wanted this system is that they can afford to pay the fees the BBFC charge for certification and certificate negotiation. Smaller independants can not, so it means smaller films that may have some difficult subject matter don't get picked up by distributors and don't get released. This of course suits the big studios as it keeps competition out of the multiplexes.

Now to say that this doesn't happen on the continent is also slightly false, there are lots of examples of films being banned or cut on the continent. Saw 3 was banned in Germany until the studio presented a cut version of the film. And there are many other cases of films being banned or cut for cultural reasons, such as insulting religion or the government or state. There's a whole list of them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_films

So the system we have may not be perfect in your eyes, but it's the system that the film industry and the British public (on the whole) have asked for and is not some BBFC conspiracy designed to spoil your fun.

< Message edited by Discodez -- 12/3/2013 11:47:34 AM >

(in reply to Meal)

Post #: 34

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 12/3/2013 1:08:14 PM

Moorish

Posts: 280
Joined: 17/10/2005
From: Scotland

Is it censorship though? Or is it just perserving some innocence in an already crumbling society? Films don't make violent people, but it does add pollution to the water stream (along with a lot of other things).

(in reply to Discodez)

Post #: 35

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 12/3/2013 2:38:32 PM

Meal

Posts: 7
Joined: 1/3/2013

Thanks for your post Discodez. A few points:

quote:

But the reason why this happens is that the major players in the film industry, the big hollywood studios have asked for this service.

Why have they been granted this service in the UK and nowhere else in the international markets?

quote:

The second reason the big hollywood studios wanted this system is that they can afford to pay the fees the BBFC charge for certification and certificate negotiation. Smaller independants can not, so it means smaller films that may have some difficult subject matter don't get picked up by distributors and don't get released. This of course suits the big studios as it keeps competition out of the multiplexes.

Making the practice that much more inappropriate and in need of public exposure and consultation.

quote:

Now to say that this doesn't happen on the continent is also slightly false, there are lots of examples of films being banned or cut on the continent. Saw 3 was banned in Germany until the studio presented a cut version of the film. And there are many other cases of films being banned or cut for cultural reasons, such as insulting religion or the government or state. There's a whole list of them here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_films

The countries I'm comparing the UK to are those with similarly evolved values around freedom of expression. Those in Europe, Canada, Australia and Mexico. While I'm sure there are cases of banning, such as Saw 3 in Germany, these are rare exceptions and don't compare to the large number of cut films hitting UK cinemas every year. Also, the Saw 3 example is one of compulsory cuts, not cuts for category, which is the focus here.

quote:

So the system we have may not be perfect in your eyes, but it's the system that the film industry and the British public (on the whole) have asked for and is not some BBFC conspiracy designed to spoil your fun.

Really? When did the British public ask to have a constant stream of cut films in their cinemas? Anyone I've told about this practice of advising on cuts for a fee reacts by saying a) that they never knew about this and b) certainly won't be going to see any cut films from now on and c) feel betrayed by the BBFC who are supposed to be acting their interests, not the interests of a studio that's paying them.

Presumably as a cinephile, are you happy with the amount of cut films in UK cinemas or would you rather we had a system like the rest of Europe in which cuts-for-category never (or extremely rarely ever) happens?

(in reply to Discodez)

Post #: 36

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 12/3/2013 2:51:52 PM

matty_b

Posts: 12889
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

You might say that UK cinema has been littered with butchered films.

Mightn't you?

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quote:

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Post #: 37

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 12/3/2013 4:10:47 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14578
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meal
Presumably as a cinephile, are you happy with the amount of cut films in UK cinemas

You keep saying this but there aren't as many cut films as you seem to think there are.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

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Post #: 38

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 12/3/2013 4:39:38 PM

Discodez

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/9/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meal

Why have they been granted this service in the UK and nowhere else in the international markets?

As I already said, the reason why the BBFC have offered this service is because the studios want it. The studios want it because the UK is the biggest market in the world outside the US for Hollywood films. For the studios it's about making the most money they can. The reason why they don't push for it in France, Germany, Italy Australia etc is that the potential differences in revenue between a 12 and 15 certificate are rather small in those countries compared to what they could be in the UK. It's about economics for the studios, not about censorship by the BBFC, the studios are self censoring.

quote:

.Making the practice that much more inappropriate and in need of public exposure and consultation

What practice, the practice of Hollywood studios wanting to marginalise independant cinema? Then yes we agree.

quote:

The countries I'm comparing the UK to are those with similarly evolved values around freedom of expression. Those in Europe, Canada, Australia and Mexico. While I'm sure there are cases of banning, such as Saw 3 in Germany, these are rare exceptions and don't compare to the large number of cut films hitting UK cinemas every year. Also, the Saw 3 example is one of compulsory cuts, not cuts for category, which is the focus here.

I really do think you are very much overstating the number of films that are being "cut for category", in recent times I recall 3 (Die hard 5, The Hunger Games and the title film in this thread). Compared to the number of films that are released totally uncut, it's a tiny number and like I say it's at the behest of the studio, not the BBFC.

quote:

Really? When did the British public ask to have a constant stream of cut films in their cinemas? Anyone I've told about this practice of advising on cuts for a fee reacts by saying a) that they never knew about this and b) certainly won't be going to see any cut films from now on and c) feel betrayed by the BBFC who are supposed to be acting their interests, not the interests of a studio that's paying them.

As others have already pointed out, the BBFC regularly surveys the British public, there's a survey on their website now, and on the whole, the British public tell the BBFC they are happy with the job that they do with regard to classification. It's interesting that your friends seem to be upset at this studio led policy of asking for advice on cutting films to achieve a lower and more profitable classification and decide therefore not to see a film. You see I was under the impression that with the most recent case at least, Die Hard blah blah, that people didn't bother going to see it because it was shit, not because the studio decided to ask the BBFC what to trim so children could go and see it with their parents.

quote:

Presumably as a cinephile, are you happy with the amount of cut films in UK cinemas or would you rather we had a system like the rest of Europe in which cuts-for-category never (or extremely rarely ever) happens?

As a cinephile I'd rather all films were released uncut and as the director intended but also as a cinephile I'm not going to bother putting myself through a load of old shit like die hard blah blah, no matter what classification it gets.

As a cinephile what upsets me more is not being able to see great films from around Europe and the rest of the world at my local multiplex, because they would rather show die hard blah blah or the latest celluloid abortion by the Wayans Brothers or Adam Sandler. Now that really is something to get upset about.

(in reply to Meal)

Post #: 39

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 13/3/2013 10:50:59 AM

FoximusPrime

Posts: 220
Joined: 11/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Meal

Anyone I've told about this practice of advising on cuts for a fee reacts by saying a) that they never knew about this and b) certainly won't be going to see any cut films from now on and c) feel betrayed by the BBFC who are supposed to be acting their interests, not the interests of a studio that's paying them.

With regards to (b) why won't they go and watch any cut films "from now on"? Did they have no problem with doing so before you invoked the BBFC or is it that they were unaware of cuts at all? At the end of the day knowledge is power, so all three of these reactions can be avoided by viewers simply visiting the BBFC site. This function of the BBFC is not some well kept secret.

The best way to stop studios from cutting their own films - whether or not they have sought advice from the BBFC - is for audiences not to watch them. Such films appear to be shit anyway a la Taken 2, Die Hard 5, and...erm...that's all that springs to mind. The reason the studios do it is money, so if there's no money to be made they won't do it, so direct your ire at them. You could even sleep tight knowing that the knock on effect of a low audience turnout in such instances would be that they wouldn't bother asking the BBFC for advice...

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Post #: 40

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 19/3/2013 1:54:24 PM

Drooch

Posts: 129
Joined: 31/5/2006

Nice to see some good sense from more people on this subject, still a few censorship apologists popping up for some reason. No doubt they'll try to censor me again. Run along to the mods, fellas.

OK, let's clear up some confusion I've spotted. The UK is not the largest Hollywood market outside the US. This MPAA report shows France, Japan, China and Canada as bigger markets, with other countries not far behind the UK:

http://www.mpaa.org/resources/5bec4ac9-a95e-443b-987b-bff6fb5455a9.pdf

The only remaining difference is that we have a censorship body that is happy to advise on cuts (for a fee, as Meal has discovered, which explains a lot). That some supposed cinephiles are happy about this, and happy to accept the stream of cut versions that litter our cinemas, is baffling. I know plenty of non-cinephiles who find the practice insulting and want it to end for reasons any film enthusiast should be able to understand.

There seems to be some confusions as to who to 'blame'. The studio are to blame, of course, but the BBFC are facilitating their greed and audience disrespect by offering to advise on cuts. The studios will be difficult to change (though they can be, the upgrade of Die Hard 5 to an R after the attempt to make the franchise kid-friendly with the PG-13 DH4 was a response to hostile audience reactions) but the BBFC is very responsive to change, if the British public demand it. The only reason the British public haven't made a decision on this is because the BBFC neither made them aware of it nor asked them, in their many public surveys. Just look at the last one - it completely dodges the issue, once again.

I've also seen confusion over the number of films cut. Here are some recent victims of cuts for category:

Die Hard 5
Taken 2
Jack Reacher
The Woman in Black
The Expendables
The Hunger Games
Savages
The Inbetweeners Movie
The Three Stooges
The Knot
Now Is Good
The Cold Light Of Day
Twilight Breaking Dawn, Part 1

Needless to say, the 'it doesn't matter because those films are shit' dodge is irrelevant. We're talking about a principle which will affect future films if unchanged.

(in reply to FoximusPrime)

Post #: 41

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 19/3/2013 2:22:01 PM

matty_b

Posts: 12889
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.

I bet you're glad Meal turned up.

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quote:

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Post #: 42

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 19/3/2013 3:55:21 PM

Discodez

Posts: 777
Joined: 2/9/2010

Those figures in the MPAA report are for all films released, not just American films. In India and China the number of domestically made films vastly out numbers the Hollywood films released (According to China's official Xinhua news agency, in 2012, the country released 893 Chinese films and 34 foreign films, which racked up more than 17 billion yuan (US$2.73 billion) in movie ticket sales. China increased its foreign film quota from 20 to 34 last year).

The figures for France are estimated (if you have a look at the report again have a little asterisk by them). But despite the fact that there were record attendances in France in 2011, the major boost to that figure was the success of the French films Untouchable and Nothing to declare French cinema attendance

Those two films accounted for 41% of cinema attendance in France in 2011. Have a look at the numbers watching American films in that report and it states a figure of 99 million attendances.

In the UK Cinema admissions were just under 180 million UK attendance but only 13% of those were to see independent British films UK box office

So I stand by my "censorship apologist" stance that the UK is the biggest market for Hollywood product outside of North America. Just give me a shout when you want to come down of your high horse and I'll bring a ladder.

Oh and maybe read your "evidence" in future before you submit it.

By the way - just as an aside every single one of those films you list was offered an uncut rating and has since been released uncut or as "uncut directors cuts" on DVD/Blu-ray (with the exception of Now is good, which wasn't actually cut, the producers sent the screenplay asking for advice and made changes to the screenplay - a film which appears to have only been shown twice at a festival and the premiere). All of which kind of makes your whole argument moot.

< Message edited by Discodez -- 20/3/2013 3:01:09 PM >

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Post #: 43

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 19/3/2013 6:33:16 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14578
Joined: 30/9/2005

First up-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Drooch

Nice to see some good sense from more people on this subject, still a few censorship apologists popping up for some reason. No doubt they'll try to censor me again. Run along to the mods, fellas.

What?

quote:

I've also seen confusion over the number of films cut. Here are some recent victims of cuts for category:

Die Hard 5
Taken 2
Jack Reacher
The Woman in Black
The Expendables
The Hunger Games
Savages
The Inbetweeners Movie
The Three Stooges
The Knot
Now Is Good
The Cold Light Of Day
Twilight Breaking Dawn, Part 1

No confusion, I knew about all of these but most if not all are now available uncut on Blu Ray which is where a lot of money is made. The one I have doubt on, though is Breaking Dawn Part 1, I think that was uncut. Anyway, in the grand scheme of things, going by how many films that are actually given certificates every year, this amount is nothing. Especially compared to the 90s and also considering we get to see the uncut versions sooner than we did before.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
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Post #: 44

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 20/3/2013 1:20:15 AM

The2ndRing

Posts: 3950
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: rehab

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't think we need the 12a at all, I think it should have stayed just plain old 12.

You obviously weren't working in a cinema when Spiderman came out. Urgh.

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Post #: 45

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 20/3/2013 1:32:53 AM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14578
Joined: 30/9/2005

Oh, I'm well aware of it but I have been in a showing of a 12A film that was full of young kids that really shouldn't have been there. But some people think it is ok to take infants to a film because of the certificate.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 20/3/2013 1:34:27 AM >

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Post #: 46

12a is a PG-13 - 20/3/2013 7:55:38 PM

Evolved As One

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/3/2013
From: Essex

More or less. That's why I thought they brought it in.

As to my understanding, a PG-13 is like a soft (BBFC) 15 or a hard 12. And an R is a hard 15 or a soft 18.

I swear (pardon the pun) I heard a trailer on the radio with the announcer saying "Rated 15a". It wouldn't surprise me if they brought this in, as both 12a and 15a would kind of be equivalent to the PG-13 and R ratings in America.

I can see the pro's and cons of these though.

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RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 20/3/2013 8:47:41 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14578
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evolved As One

More or less. That's why I thought they brought it in.

As to my understanding, a PG-13 is like a soft (BBFC) 15 or a hard 12. And an R is a hard 15 or a soft 18.

PG-13 is 12 or soft 15. It has, on occasion, been an 18 (1988's Pulse, 1996's Solo and The Quest) and even PG (The Simpsons Movie). The R rating is either a hard 15 or an 18 (no hard or soft about it) but it has also been a 12 (Terminator 3, Steve Coogan's The Parole Officer, The King's Speech), there are no real 'rules'. it's all about tone and content.

quote:

I swear (pardon the pun) I heard a trailer on the radio with the announcer saying "Rated 15a".

The 15a exists in Ireland so you may have heard an ad intended for Irish radio.

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ORIGINAL: matty_b
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RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 20/3/2013 9:58:05 PM

Mister Coe

Posts: 581
Joined: 20/10/2012

OK, here's my opinion on this debate and I suspect I might get some shit over this, but here goes....

The people who paid for it (ie, the studios) have the right to say what they want to do with it.

Don't get me wrong, I utterly and completely believe that the directors, writers and producers should have their vision of whatever film they put out be seen in whatever form they desire. They are the film-makers and they put it out to us, the film-LOVERS.

But they didn't pay x-million dollars to have that film exist in the first place. The studios did that and without them forking out the big bucks in the first place, the film wouldn't exist. End of.

I mean, what's the worst we have to deal with? We have to wait a few months for the uncut version on Blu-Ray (which is pretty much the standard nowadays)? That's not so awful! If you don't want to see the 12A version, give it a miss at the cinema (which might send a message to the studios) and buy the Blu!

The film business is exactly that, a BUSINESS!

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RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 11:03:33 AM

Mr Gittes

Posts: 445
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't think we need the 12a at all, I think it should have stayed just plain old 12.

Normally, I'd heartily agree with you, but then I wouldn't have been able to see Spider-Man as a kid

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Post #: 50

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 12:42:17 PM

Evolved As One

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/3/2013
From: Essex

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

PG-13 is 12 or soft 15. It has, on occasion, been an 18 (1988's Pulse, 1996's Solo and The Quest) and even PG (The Simpsons Movie). The R rating is either a hard 15 or an 18 (no hard or soft about it) but it has also been a 12 (Terminator 3, Steve Coogan's The Parole Officer, The King's Speech), there are no real 'rules'. it's all about tone and content.

Ahh, I see. That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps the censorship is to stick within the 'tone and content' of each certificate rating?

quote:

The 15a exists in Ireland so you may have heard an ad intended for Irish radio.

Maybe. What it was doing on British radio I have no idea.

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RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 3:05:17 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14578
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I don't think we need the 12a at all, I think it should have stayed just plain old 12.

Normally, I'd heartily agree with you, but then I wouldn't have been able to see Spider-Man as a kid

Ha, fair enough

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evolved As One

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

PG-13 is 12 or soft 15. It has, on occasion, been an 18 (1988's Pulse, 1996's Solo and The Quest) and even PG (The Simpsons Movie). The R rating is either a hard 15 or an 18 (no hard or soft about it) but it has also been a 12 (Terminator 3, Steve Coogan's The Parole Officer, The King's Speech), there are no real 'rules'. it's all about tone and content.

Ahh, I see. That makes a lot of sense. Perhaps the censorship is to stick within the 'tone and content' of each certificate rating?

I meant tone and context, sorry. You can have a lot of violence in a 12a as long as there is no blood and no focus on the injury, that sort of stuff. You can use the c-word in a 15 if it is not used in an aggressive way. Kick-Ass got flack for having a child say the c-word just as she was about to kill people but she used it in a one-liner. If she had angrily shouted 'you cunts!!!!' as she killed them, that would have made the difference. The Simpsons Movie gets away with showing a ten year old child's nude bottom half in a PG. This is partly why the film got a PG-13 rating in the US but the BBFC realised it was done in a comedic manner and it is a cartoon. There is no way you would get the same shot in a live action film and keep the rating it had (obviously and thankfully). There was a shot in The Expendables where Stallone stabs a dude in the throat and twists the knife. The twist and the look on his face as he did so was cut because he was being extra sadistic on this one guy. You can have your hero punch, shoot and kick bad guys in your film but they are not allowed to enjoy it and it can't linger on the one kill for too long. The shot was put back in for the 18 rated Blu Ray and if it had happened to a monster or an alien or something not recognisably human, there wouldn't have been a problem with the shot in the first place.

Hope some of that made sense, there are many more examples I can't think of at the moment

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Post #: 52

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 3:40:46 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6227
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

I think my biggest problem with Moretz saying cunt was it was a pretty lame and juvenile attempt to push some buttons.

Not really offensive, just a bit dumb.

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Post #: 53

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 3:44:58 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14578
Joined: 30/9/2005

And a line taken directly from the comic but yeah, it's a dumb one.

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Post #: 54

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 4:37:45 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4183
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

I thought it was funny.

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Post #: 55

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 4:45:17 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14578
Joined: 30/9/2005

Which was the intention

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quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b
You have a nice face, Shifty. A face I would have a cup of tea with.

(in reply to horribleives)

Post #: 56

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 21/3/2013 4:48:41 PM

horribleives

Posts: 4183
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

Everyone's a winner then. Apart from the stuck-up wifey sitting behind me who left after that scene. And her wet blanket hubby who followed her out.

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(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 57

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 22/3/2013 11:04:19 AM

Evolved As One

Posts: 42
Joined: 9/3/2013
From: Essex

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

I meant tone and context, sorry. You can have a lot of violence in a 12a as long as there is no blood and no focus on the injury, that sort of stuff. You can use the c-word in a 15 if it is not used in an aggressive way. Kick-Ass got flack for having a child say the c-word just as she was about to kill people but she used it in a one-liner. If she had angrily shouted 'you cunts!!!!' as she killed them, that would have made the difference. The Simpsons Movie gets away with showing a ten year old child's nude bottom half in a PG. This is partly why the film got a PG-13 rating in the US but the BBFC realised it was done in a comedic manner and it is a cartoon. There is no way you would get the same shot in a live action film and keep the rating it had (obviously and thankfully). There was a shot in The Expendables where Stallone stabs a dude in the throat and twists the knife. The twist and the look on his face as he did so was cut because he was being extra sadistic on this one guy. You can have your hero punch, shoot and kick bad guys in your film but they are not allowed to enjoy it and it can't linger on the one kill for too long. The shot was put back in for the 18 rated Blu Ray and if it had happened to a monster or an alien or something not recognisably human, there wouldn't have been a problem with the shot in the first place.

Hope some of that made sense, there are many more examples I can't think of at the moment

Ah, context. I see, no worries. It makes perfect sense to be honest, and is also insightful for when I begin to dabble into the world of filmmaking once I finish my degree.

I really appreciate this, and am grateful you made MPAA and BBFC's 'guidelines' a lot simpler for me to comprehend. It is often head-hurting stuff. D:

Thanks again.

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(in reply to Shifty Bench)

Post #: 58

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 22/4/2013 4:25:25 PM

Drooch

Posts: 129
Joined: 31/5/2006

quote:

So I stand by my "censorship apologist" stance that the UK is the biggest market for Hollywood product outside of North America. Just give me a shout when you want to come down of your high horse and I'll bring a ladder.

It's great that you were able to contribute to this topic and correct my error regarding that link. Which makes it all the more a shame that you chose to be a smug prick with your 'high horse' comment, and then completely undermine your factual correction by making an error of your own. The UK is not 'the biggest market for Hollywood product outside of North America', China and Japan are:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/449107/20130322/china-hollywood-box-office-sales-mpaa.htm

The point still stands that the reason the UK suffers more cut films than similar sized markets is because we have a classification body that offers a unique 'cuts advice service' for a fee. This cuts-for-cash system leaves the UK cinemagoer with neutered cinema films, whereas countries whose classification bodies do not offer this service do not suffer the same abundance of censored material. The fact that the BBFC are supposed to serve the British public, but instead are taking money for their involvement in bowdlerising our films, is a problem for British cinephiles.

(in reply to Discodez)

Post #: 59

RE: STUDIO CENSORSHIP - THE WRETCHED 12A - 22/4/2013 5:05:53 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3589
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

Not sure if you're really in a position to start hurling personal abuse around, are you?

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(in reply to Drooch)

Post #: 60