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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard

 
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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 12:54:23 PM   
rawlinson

 

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Malcolm McDowell is in the latest Home Alone film. I was really hoping that this time they'd forget to take their Grandfather on holiday and he had to fight off some criminals Alex style.

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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 12:54:53 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Lest we forget, the infamous pitch meeting where someone tried to pitch to Steven E de Souza (the writer of the first two) 'Die Hard in a building.....'




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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 12:57:39 PM   
MonsterCat


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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 12:58:10 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Lest we forget, the infamous pitch meeting where someone tried to pitch to Steven E de Souza (the writer of the first two) 'Die Hard in a building.....'








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RE: John McClane 1988 - 1996. Rest In Peace - 14/2/2013 1:45:28 PM   
musht


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Haven't seen it yet but I don't yet how people can say it killed a franchise. No matter how bad it is it will never taint the original trilogy

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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 1:47:37 PM   
Dannybohy


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RE: Ah, Kim, You Just Don't Get it.. - 14/2/2013 1:59:19 PM   
AxlReznor

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: andrewgc

Hardly surprising to see Newman's usual review of a potential blockbuster, knocking it back, saying it's run it's course. Probably more predictable than the film itself. Stick with Lincoln mate, lots of talkie bits. When the rest of the human race go to see a Die Hard film out of choice they know EXACTLY what to expect.


And they may well be disappointed... as Newman obviously was.
Lot's of people going to see a film doesn't make it good, the same way no one seeing a film doesn't make it bad.
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RE: John McClane 1988 - 1996. Rest In Peace - 14/2/2013 2:02:35 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

Haven't seen it yet but I don't yet how people can say it killed a franchise. No matter how bad it is it will never taint the original trilogy


I think they mean killed it as in, their won't be any more after this. I'm going to give the first three this weekend, I think

quote:

ORIGINAL: andrewgc

Hardly surprising to see Newman's usual review of a potential blockbuster, knocking it back, saying it's run it's course. Probably more predictable than the film itself. Stick with Lincoln mate, lots of talkie bits. When the rest of the human race go to see a Die Hard film out of choice they know EXACTLY what to expect.


I expect a great action film and apparently that is not what this is. It is not just Kim Newman, it is almost all critics who have seen it. Also, according to my Twitter feed, a couple of non-critics think it's shit too. It's disappointing, sure, but have ever considered the possibility that maybe the film is as bad as people are saying?

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RE: Ah, Kim, You Just Don't Get it.. - 14/2/2013 2:04:56 PM   
elab49


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quote:

ORIGINAL: andrewgc

Hardly surprising to see Newman's usual review of a potential blockbuster, knocking it back, saying it's run it's course. Probably more predictable than the film itself. Stick with Lincoln mate, lots of talkie bits. When the rest of the human race go to see a Die Hard film out of choice they know EXACTLY what to expect.


Which other reviews do you feel this happened in? Ian Nathan reviewed Lincoln. Mr Newman on the other hand, eg, reviewed Grabbers (4 stars - not really like Lincoln) and Sightseers (4 stars, also not noticeable Lincoln-esque).

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RE: Ah, Kim, You Just Don't Get it.. - 14/2/2013 2:06:39 PM   
rawlinson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: andrewgc

When the rest of the human race go to see a Die Hard film out of choice they know EXACTLY what to expect.


An increasingly disappointing series of films?
Post #: 40
RE: Ah, Kim, You Just Don't Get it.. - 14/2/2013 2:55:57 PM   
Cool Breeze


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I will still be giving it a watch at the weekend.May actually be pleasantly surprised !

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RE: Ah, Kim, You Just Don't Get it.. - 14/2/2013 3:41:34 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

I will still be giving it a watch at the weekend.May actually be pleasantly surprised !


And we won't be surprised if you are.




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RE: 2 stars because Fox thought we were stupid - 14/2/2013 4:49:34 PM   
pete_traynor


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hotvindaloo

Fuck this franchise




Great comment! Compelling and rich.

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RE: 2 stars because Fox thought we were stupid - 14/2/2013 5:35:03 PM   
directorscut


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So Newman gave it 2/5, which is equal to 40%. Does this mean the 12A version is better than the R-rated version, which is currently 13% on rottentomatoes?

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RE: 2 stars because Fox thought we were stupid - 14/2/2013 5:43:46 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

So Newman gave it 2/5, which is equal to 40%. Does this mean the 12A version is better than the R-rated version, which is currently 13% on rottentomatoes?


That is actually a good point.....


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RE: 2 stars because Fox thought we were stupid - 14/2/2013 6:20:31 PM   
hotvindaloo

 

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I didn't know I needed your approval on my comments. Thanks for sharing

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Post #: 46
Nowhere near as bad as they say... - 14/2/2013 6:35:11 PM   
BudBaxter

 

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Saw it this afternoon. Really enjoyed it.

I guess in cutting the swearing they cut all the best one-liners, because most of the dialogue is quite dull & pedestrian. 90% of the stuff from the trailer is missing. Didn't really notice the lack of blood. An awful lot of people still get shot or blown up.

The action stuff is great - it's worth watching just for the incredibly crunchy car chase. & gigantic helicopters shooting at buildings never gets old for me. The finale's not quite as OTT as Die Hard 4's Truck vs Jet, but it's not far off.

Overall, it's a good ride that rattles along without really pausing for breath (or logic), & it put a big McClane-style smirk on my face.

Die Hard 6 really needs to find a decent villain though. & get Shane Black to write all of McClane's dialogue.

< Message edited by BudBaxter -- 14/2/2013 6:37:16 PM >

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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 7:10:46 PM   
R W

 

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In 1988, Bruce Willis who at the time was known for his comedic talent in the TV series Moonlighting, wore a vest and fight robbers posing as terrorists, with all the action taking place in one tall building. Twenty-five years since its initial release, the first Die Hard, which is hailed as the greatest action films of all time and is even a great Christmas flick, spawned a franchise and created a sub-genre of action movies where you had “Die Hard on a bus” (Speed) and “Die Hard on an island” (The Rock).

As the fifth instalment of the series is released on Valentine’s Day, John McClane goes all mother Russia. As he travels to Moscow to help his estranged son Jack (Jai Courtney) who is arrested for murder, McClane gets caught in the crossfire of a terrorist plot, in which Jack is secretly an undercover CIA agent.

As the Die Hard franchise progresses over the years, the isolated settings where McClane gets caught in the middle of the action got larger every time to the point it’s no longer isolated. Having the character having his next adventure in Russia does offer a few gags regarding McClane being a bit lost in translation, but despite Bruce Willis’s witty one-liners, the film itself lacks humour and many other things to make it purely a Die Hard movie.

With a central father-son relationship amidst the chaos, there is whining and chuckling within the McClanes, the chemistry between Willis and Jai Courtney (the menacing hitman from Jack Reacher) lacks an emotional bond like the father-son relationship from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade. As we all know, Die Hard isn’t just about guns and explosions (although that can be fun), it’s also about character.

With Max Payne’s John Moore at the helm and Skip Woods penning the script, expect their B-movie credentials to shine through, with a mindless plot that tries to have a political backdrop with settings like Chernobyl, as well as a main villain that hides in secret unlike Alan Rickman’s iconic Hans Gruber from the first film who establishes him right away and is instantly likeable. While the explosive action sequences are less clunky and CGI-fied than before, the cynical 12A certificate causes the film to be a less bloody spectacle that made that the first few films from the series a blast.

Twenty-five years have passed and the first Die Hard still works to this day, but as a franchise it has run its course as the attempt of topping the spectacle is getting ridiculous. Bruce Willis is an action star who can act and his performance as McClane is always likeable, this is sadly not a good day to die hard.

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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 7:29:53 PM   
Phubbs


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Talking of 80's action flicks, check out this list! if you weren't around back then you really missed out on some excellent cinema
http://www.imdb.com/list/OqyevIZGep8/

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Post #: 49
RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 9:23:10 PM   
mlavagna

 

Posts: 207
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I've just come back from seeing it. I wish I'd read the reviews first. How on earth can the studio, the writer and the director get it so horribly wrong? This is a truly pathetic entry to the die hard series. As a huge fan of the first three films I feel extremely disappointed. The story is basically non existent. The dialogue is boring and uninspired. The characters are characterless. The action scenes are far too over the top. The effects look like the next xbox action game. The music is dull. There's just nothing good about it at all.

I urge people NOT to see this at the cinema. By purchasing that ticket you'll be repaying FOX for making this mess of a film and encouraging them to make another. Stay clear of it. It'll only disappoint.

I've heard that they're going to make a 6th one which I'm not against if done properly. They really need to recapture the essence of John McClanes character. He's just an ordinary man who finds himself caught in the middle of an extraordinary situation. He's not a mercenary or a secret agent. He's a RELUCTANT hero. The things he does are not because he wants to but because he has to. At every point in the story, every decision he makes and every action that he takes is done to either save his own skin or the lives of innocent people who're also caught in the situation with him. He doesn't go chasing trouble. He'd much rather just be safe and sound. They must remember that he's a human being, vulnerable, confused and frightened. He has character flaws too. A bit of a wiseguy, he has little respect for authority and his personal relationships aren't great.

My personal preference for DIE HARD VI would be having it based on the book IGNITION, by Kevin J Anderson. Essentially DIE HARD set within the confines of NASAs Kennedy Space Centre. To be clear, the hero does not go to space, which would a a step (or giant leap) too far. The action is grounded on terra firma. If that book was handed to a talented screenwriter for a rewrite and McTiernen was hired to direct we could have a fantastic sequel.

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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 14/2/2013 9:41:49 PM   
jackcarter


Posts: 1913
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mlavagna
My personal preference for DIE HARD VI would be having it based on the book IGNITION, by Kevin J Anderson. Essentially DIE HARD set within the confines of NASAs Kennedy Space Centre. To be clear, the hero does not go to space, which would a a step (or giant leap) too far. The action is grounded on terra firma. If that book was handed to a talented screenwriter for a rewrite and McTiernen was hired to direct we could have a fantastic sequel.


DH6: Where No Die Hard Has Gone Before

that reminds me - i think Star Trek TNG got in on the die hard act and did an episode where Picard went all McClane

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RE: A good day to call it a day... - 15/2/2013 8:58:10 AM   
Rgirvan44


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Hey, it turns out the writer of Wolverine wrote a shitty script!

Who knew?

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RE: A Good Day That John McLane Shouldn't Of Lived Through - 15/2/2013 2:07:22 PM   
musht


Posts: 1892
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From: Oireland
Fuck it!! I liked it!!

It's definitely the worst in the series but it's definitely an enjoyable romp. Of course it's bad when any film in the Die Hard franchise can be described as merely an "enjoyable romp" but I honestly don't see it as being as terrible and disloyal to the franchise as people are saying. I would argue that McClane shows a lot more of the characteristics that we love than he did in 4.0 which is partly due to the mediocre story allowing him to be a lot more of a reluctant hero. I bought into the relationship between McClane and is son, the gags about the McClanes not being a hugging family seemed out of place in the trailer seemed out of place in the trailer but in the context of the whole film it works because as we all know deep down John loves his family and it's that love which has driven him through 4 of the 5 films so far. The action is good and doesn't go as OTT as 4.0 did.

Overall Iliked it, didn't love it but I liked and I think the criticisms thus far have been harsh. It's definitely a low three star, I wouldn't quite stoop to two though.

It was a 15A here in Ireland, we still didn't get a Motherf****r which leads to believe that it's actually the same cut as the 12A shown in the UK, but I'm not sure.

< Message edited by musht -- 15/2/2013 2:11:02 PM >


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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 15/2/2013 3:34:16 PM   
Cruisecontroller


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Not top of my list of films to see I`ve still got quality oscarworthy filme like Zero Dark Thirty and Lincoln to see. In the next film their probably get him to save a continent, then in the next film the world, followed by the galaxy, then the universe!

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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 15/2/2013 4:08:02 PM   
musht


Posts: 1892
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruisecontroller

Not top of my list of films to see I`ve still got quality oscarworthy filme like Zero Dark Thirty and Lincoln to see. In the next film their probably get him to save a continent, then in the next film the world, followed by the galaxy, then the universe!


Zero Dark Thirty is definitely better. I wouldn't blame people for waiting to the DVD/Blu-ray

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RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 15/2/2013 4:16:40 PM   
Cruisecontroller


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Well as I have an Unlimited Cineworld card that per month costs about the same as a 3D Blu Ray if makes more financial sense to see it at one of thir cinemas and if it really is bad I can see something else for no extra cost.

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RE: DIE OF SHAME!!!! - 16/2/2013 12:47:19 AM   
Filmfan 2


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****SPOILERS****

What a steaming turd of a movie!

I went into this not expecting a great deal (and having seen the film I now know that I pretty much had every action beat, and the ending, spoiled by the trailer), but this was really quite atrocious.

The action scenes were incredibly yawn-inducing and just seemed to abandon any attempt to try and stay within the realms of reality. I know killing a helicopter with a car and going one-on-one with a fighter jet wasn't exactly keeping it real, but that car chase at the start is an absolute joke. McClane as a character is just a parody of himself now, and whilst there was the odd chuckle to be had, most of the one-liners were hackneyed, with that particular quip about being 'on vacation' being repeated ad-nauseum and it lost its shine very quickly (not to mention that he wasn't on vacation - he was there because his son was supposedly in trouble /pedant). In regards to his son, what was the point of him even being there? His character was so scant and the attempts to create any kind relationship between father and son was painfully feeble. Whilst we're on the subject of feeble things, the plot for this film was was so bare it almost didn't exist. The story seemed to exist to create the most tenuous of links between the action scenes in the movie which is unforgivable, given the poor attention paid to everything other than the explosions.

The references to Willis' age and hair loss are a boringly predictable element of his recent movies: he's old and bald - we get it! Much has been made of the recent slew of movies with an older cast and how revolutionary this has been but, if you ask me, what will be 'revolutionary' will be when we get these kinds of films and we're not being constantly reminded of the actors' age. Perhaps in youth-orientated media land, however, it maybe seems remarkable that anyone over the age of 40 can draw breath.

I can only presume Willis has something that needed paying for when he agreed to make this. That shot at the end that was an ode to Alan Rickman's death in the first movie only serves to remind the viewer just how far the quality of these films has fallen-off over the last two movies. John McClane has gone from an everyman cop in the wrong place at the wrong time to being a nigh-on-invincible superhuman.

2.5/10

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RE: DIE OF SHAME!!!! - 16/2/2013 1:06:54 AM   
Private Hudson


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I love Die Hard and actually I have loved every one of the previous 4 movies, even though that bit in Die Hard 4.0 when he takes on a fighter was pushing the OTT boundary for me.

Sadly in this movie that boundary has well and truly been jumped over.

The movie is simply preposterous. Okay so the original film was called 'Die Hard' but in this case they take it to extremes. Just how many falls through glass/concrete/any material known to man can one man take without a broken bone or limb?

Also there was no ingenious set-up that the other 4 movies had. In Die Hard we had the then new thrill of terrorists hijacking an enclosed space (since done to death with Die Hard on a.... fill in the blanks).

Die Harder had the danger of Holly being aboard one of the doomed airliners.

With a Vengeance had the excellent gimmick of 'Simon Says' and a decent side kick in Zeus.

4.0 had a great start with the bad guys taking over transport and communications across the US, and had a techno theme.

Sadly for A Good Day to Die Hard there is no uniqueness to it. We've seen all this before. Bad Russians and even badder Russians. Double crossed Russians.

Die Hards were successful due to having a witty and clever plot along with some kind of USP/gimmick which I have outlined above. That's what set them above many of contemporary action films. Plus they had a style to them as well.

This plot seems a bit like every Z-grade action movie on Movies4Men starring some guy called Davidoff. I half expected some Radek loyalists to turn up from Air Force One (a film that is equally as daft but pulls it off due to a proper Die Hard conceit and an "Only He Could Pull It Off" star turn from Harrison Ford).

I had went into this with high hopes as I don't bother too much with Rotten Tomatoes as I actually liked John Carter for example.

The running time worried me. When a movie is around 85-90 minutes long, unless it is a comedy, then you know something is probably amiss. Most action movies/blockbusters normally aim for 2 hours in the cinema as this translates into 1 hour and 50 minutes on TV. More recent blockbusters go well over the 2 hour mark, which is a relatively new idea for modern action movies (Aliens and some Bond movies are exceptions I can think of) unless they had epic themed material (such as Dr Zhivago, Ben Hur etc).

John Jnr was not the right kind of foil for McClane. He didn't need his dad's help and in fact you were never in doubt for one second about the outcome of the movie, which is sad.

Plus what was their plan? (I may have missed this due to a comfort break!). Surely they had to threaten the USA with a nuke?

Other daft things that annoyed me involved Chernoybl.

Chernobyl is NOT in Russia. It is in the Ukraine. So where were their passports and visas? And Chernoybl is over 400 miles from Moscow, so normally a 7 hour drive, but on Russian dodgy roads it would surely take longer yet they get there at the same time as the helicopter or just after? Come on!

Plus if you have read National Geographic you would know that it is still highly radioactive. I read somewhere it said that humans can't live there again for 20,000 years. Some people do work there but only for a few hours a month (in NBC suits!).

Oh and a good idea to go swimming in the 'rainwater'. That would be highly radioactive I am sure! FFS we experienced acid rain in Scotland just after Chernoybl which damaged crops and poisoned animals!

The Soviets were very lucky the wind was blowing away from Kiev that day or millions would have died. The dust cloud blew away and they began to dissipate (something that The Sum of All Fears got right, which I thought at the time was OTT - remember the bit when Ryan is running around Baltimore and they are telling him where he is in relation to the radioactive dust cloud?).

I am sure I will buy this on DVD just to be a completist and I am sure I will grow to love it a wee bit more, but I can only give this **, and it pains me to do so, and probably I will know many who will give it only *.

Where does the blame lie? John Moore? Skip Woods?

They should have waited until they had the next idea for a Die Hard to make it a bit unique. By all means send McClane to Russia, but having him chase around Moscow and then fight in Chernoybl almost like a Call of Duty game isn't Die Hard. It is a generic action movie.

Even if they had set it up as his son was kidnapped and McClane goes to the rescue (which is a movie cliche also but somehow it would have made for better opportunities for McClane to use his cunning as well as his fists) would have been better.

Also the son should not have been his equal. Maybe they couldn't have given him another geeky/nerdy partner after 4.0 but to have John Jnr as an action hero just wasn't right.

Overall I can't believe that after 4 good movies (1 classic and 3 very good I would say) they have jumped the shark and delivered a B-movie, which Die Hard never was. Even if they had made this was a small budget, Die Hard scripts have been clever, witty, smart and as I keep saying some idea/theme/gimmick which has made it feel new.

I really hope they do make a final Die Hard just so this isn't McClane's last bow. But I don't hold out hope as I reckon word of mouth will kill it.

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Post #: 58
RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 16/2/2013 1:33:35 AM   
Private Hudson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Heh... I've never understood the people who think of the original as anything but a generic 80's action film. One of the better ones, to be sure, but considering the quality of most of them, that's not saying much. It's certainly not some kind of untouchable holy relic. And he was already doing unlikely generic action hero things in that film... but for some reason people think that because he cut his feet on glass, he was an "everyman".


What made Die Hard a classic is the entire package.

A great central conceit: 'terrorists' hijack a skyscraper but there is a Lone Wolf in the building.

A great Teutonic villain.

Funny supporting characters.

Gripping scenes of "Will he get caught?"

Superb action scenes.

But above all Die Hard was witty. And it had a clever script. As I have said before Die Hard applied the classic Bond formula of escapism and believable OTT action to a movie (just at the time when Bond tried to become more realistic under Timothy Dalton - and failed at the Box Office - but I love License to Kill!).

Bruce Willis as McClane was a superb character. I don't think he was an 'Everyman' or even supposed to be. He was the tough guy who ended up in the wrong place in the wrong time... just what the efficient Hans Gruber hadn't factored in to his ingenious bank robbery.

It was indeed cowboy v indians so to speak.

We had a good guy we could cheer for, but at the same time would his wife get found out? Would he get caught? Would Gruber get away?

Think of some of the best bits:

Gruber doing what good guys usually do when cornered by the bad guys... pretending to be someone else "Bill Clay"

The idiot who tries to negotiate with Gruber.

The way the media get involved... William Atherton's sleazeball reporter (oh and also the moronic anchorman who says "Helsinki, Sweden")

The fire hose jump - an iconic moment - especially when he has to shoot the glass to get inside.

My favourite line is from Paul Gleason's cop who after witnessing someone (Gruber) fall from the Nakatomi Plaza he says "Oh I hope that's not a hostage."

Die Hard is a bona fide classic movie of any genre. It certainly makes my all time top ten movie list.

Because for me films or movies are about entertainment. And you don't many more exciting 2 hours in cinema than Die Hard (1988).

_____________________________

Watch my spoof movie of FULL METAL JACKET here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGRWVvM-Zo&feature=plcp&context=C31ca298UDOEgsToPDskJ4_UorjolrWTaxEGMj5GO0

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 59
RE: A Good Day To Die Hard - 16/2/2013 1:35:06 AM   
Private Hudson


Posts: 1842
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Heh... I've never understood the people who think of the original as anything but a generic 80's action film. One of the better ones, to be sure, but considering the quality of most of them, that's not saying much. It's certainly not some kind of untouchable holy relic. And he was already doing unlikely generic action hero things in that film... but for some reason people think that because he cut his feet on glass, he was an "everyman".


I would only count one moment as unlikely in the film - the roof jump which he undertakes as an absolute last resort and knows how potentially fatal it is. Everything else is quite stripped back - he loses his machine gun and ultimately has to rely on a bit of sticky tape to finish off the last two terrorists. It's also easy to forget just how much of the film is spent on John hiding and scurrying away from a fight while he figures out a plan.

It's this kind of measured, vulnerable approach that makes the original stand out, I think.

And what MC said about DH2.


Agreed. Everything else is easily believable, but every film has to have some kind of iconic death defying moment and you are right, he knows that this is probably it.

_____________________________

Watch my spoof movie of FULL METAL JACKET here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGRWVvM-Zo&feature=plcp&context=C31ca298UDOEgsToPDskJ4_UorjolrWTaxEGMj5GO0

(in reply to matty_b)
Post #: 60
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