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RE: The End of Page 3?

 
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RE: The End of Page 3? - 12/2/2013 2:06:56 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4257
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

I honestly couldn't give a toss whether it stays or goes. But if the theme here is objectification, perhaps someone should have a word with Heat magazine and the like for putting HUGE FRONT PAGE PHOTOS of female celebrities with a close up of some cellulite/stretch marks/armpit sweat. Surely this is more damaging as far as self image goes than a pretty girl with her boobs out will ever be?


I would say they're equally as responsible. Although no-one is better at trashing another woman's figure than another woman.

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Post #: 31
RE: The End of Page 3? - 12/2/2013 2:18:24 PM   
jonson


Posts: 9150
Joined: 30/9/2005
At least they'll still have Page 360.
You can spin them round, turn them upside down, zoom in, check out their baps from every possible angle. It's genius.
It's almost like having the real thing, but without the constant moaning.

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Post #: 32
RE: The End of Page 3? - 14/2/2013 1:53:47 PM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005
Definitely time for it to go. Should never have been in there in the first place frankly. It's sexist nonsense and has no place in a national newspaper. Lets hope they try replacing it with actual news. There's plenty of places to get your tit fix if needs be no need for it to be in the newspaper. Lets hope they do it at long last.

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Post #: 33
RE: The End of Page 3? - 14/2/2013 2:15:40 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
Whatever gave you the impression that The Sun is a newspaper?

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Post #: 34
RE: The End of Page 3? - 14/2/2013 2:33:07 PM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005
Well you've got me there

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Just to spare peoples blushes I feel it's only right that I should point out I'm a girl people! Not in a Crying Game way in the born without a willy way. I hope that's cleared that up.

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Post #: 35
RE: The End of Page 3? - 14/2/2013 8:34:47 PM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 461
Joined: 25/1/2010
Outdated, maybe. Inappropriate for a tabloid newspaper, perhaps. But I don't accept that page 3 or any other type of glamour modelling is sexist.

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Post #: 36
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 9:22:10 AM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005
I'd say it was pretty sexist but that's based on my assumption that the Sun don't give us much page space to womens other attributes on a daily basis and that they have now have a lovely cock and balls page that I've not heard about. I wouldn't know though as I don't read it so I may be completely wrong. In any day and age especially this one there should not be a woman with her tits out in a newspaper its just ridiculous. I have zero problem with nudity and if they wanted to feature women and men of all ages completely nude then why not. The human body is a wonderful thing that can be show in all it's lovelyness. I don't think there is really any need to have a page of the lovely 19 year old whatever her name and her little opinion on the story of the day its just so embarrasingly pathetic. It's like Beavis and Butthead huh huh boobies huh huh

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Just to spare peoples blushes I feel it's only right that I should point out I'm a girl people! Not in a Crying Game way in the born without a willy way. I hope that's cleared that up.

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Post #: 37
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 11:33:05 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fanboyslayer

Definitely time for it to go. Should never have been in there in the first place frankly. It's sexist nonsense and has no place in a national newspaper. Lets hope they try replacing it with actual news. There's plenty of places to get your tit fix if needs be no need for it to be in the newspaper. Lets hope they do it at long last.


Actual news in The Sun? lol

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Post #: 38
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 1:41:06 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5096
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
I've noticed that in all the comments from those against Page 3 there's been no mention of the fact that getting rid of it would put people out of work - it's all good and well some Guardian journalist tutting and disapproving but not every young lady has the luxury of a politically correct source of income to put her through university or pay the bills.

< Message edited by horribleives -- 15/2/2013 1:42:17 PM >


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Post #: 39
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 1:54:12 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
I've noticed that in all the comments from those against Page 3 there's been no mention of the fact that getting rid of it would put people out of work - it's all good and well some Guardian journalist tutting and disapproving but not every young lady has the luxury of a politically correct source of income to put her through university or pay the bills.


Good point (assuming you're not being sarcastic).

Whilst I'm not defending any of it (if I'm absolutely honest, I couldn't really give a shit if it went or stayed - I've never bought The Sun and never will), but - a mate of mine's sister did some "erotic" photo shoots in the late 90s cos she was broke and couldn't find a job. She was a VERY attractive young woman back then (over 10 years, 2 kids and goddness knows how many thousands of fags later and time has not been so kind to her) and could basically walk into any photo studio and make money. Nothing hardcore (as far as I know), but the stuff apparently ended up in quite a few internationally known titles at the time, and she basically made enough money in the 3 or 4 years she was doing it to buy a house. Unfortunately she didn't buy a house, and just pissed it away on expensive holidays, clothes and drink, but that's not the point.

After all, one would assume these page 3 girls aren't forced into doing it are they? They must be doing it voluntarily, surely?

< Message edited by great_badir -- 15/2/2013 1:55:48 PM >


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Post #: 40
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 2:06:58 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5096
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
I've noticed that in all the comments from those against Page 3 there's been no mention of the fact that getting rid of it would put people out of work - it's all good and well some Guardian journalist tutting and disapproving but not every young lady has the luxury of a politically correct source of income to put her through university or pay the bills.


Good point (assuming you're not being sarcastic).

Whilst I'm not defending any of it (if I'm absolutely honest, I couldn't really give a shit if it went or stayed - I've never bought The Sun and never will), but - a mate of mine's sister did some "erotic" photo shoots in the late 90s cos she was broke and couldn't find a job. She was a VERY attractive young woman back then (over 10 years, 2 kids and goddness knows how many thousands of fags later and time has not been so kind to her) and could basically walk into any photo studio and make money. Nothing hardcore (as far as I know), but the stuff apparently ended up in quite a few internationally known titles at the time, and she basically made enough money in the 3 or 4 years she was doing it to buy a house. Unfortunately she didn't buy a house, and just pissed it away on expensive holidays, clothes and drink, but that's not the point.

After all, one would assume these page 3 girls aren't forced into doing it are they? They must be doing it voluntarily, surely?


It's the same mentality that sees people campaigning to close down lapdancing bars in city centres (there's several where I llive and every year or so the dickheads with placards come out the woodwork), blissfully ignorant that if successful their moral crusade - about somerhing which, like Page 3, can be quite easily ignored - will affect the livelihoods of everyone employed there.
I've always been a lefty but smug liberal outrage doesn't half boil my piss.

< Message edited by horribleives -- 15/2/2013 2:11:34 PM >


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Post #: 41
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 3:24:27 PM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


It's the same mentality that sees people campaigning to close down lapdancing bars in city centres (there's several where I llive and every year or so the dickheads with placards come out the woodwork), blissfully ignorant that if successful their moral crusade - about somerhing which, like Page 3, can be quite easily ignored - will affect the livelihoods of everyone employed there.
I've always been a lefty but smug liberal outrage doesn't half boil my piss.



No it isn't at all. If you want to work in porn then there are plenty of places to do that and I doubt that doing one or two jobs in the Sun is setting you up for life. I would imagine that you are already doing this kind of work elsewhere in general and that is just one gig of many. It doesn't need to be in a national newspaper.

As for lap dancing clubs the reason a lot of people campaign against them is because they bring certain types of men into the area that can in some cases lead to problems. I live in area that has been known for prostitution over the years (thankfully done with now) and as a young girl you would have cars slowly following you down the road waving money etc. Also with that comes drugs. We also had to have curfews on the residential roads because of all the kerb crawlers. They tried to open one here a couple of years ago and people weren't having it. Now I know lap dancing is legal and I have no real problem if that's how people want to entertain themselves or do it for a living but it can bring other things into the area which no one wants and there is nothing smug and liberal about not wanting all that crap to deal with.

No ones (at least I don't think anyone is) is talking about getting rid of porn we're talking about we're talking about removing it from something it has no place in and that is a national newspaper.

As for it being so good for women because they can earn so much money well that's just bloody depressing.

_____________________________

Just to spare peoples blushes I feel it's only right that I should point out I'm a girl people! Not in a Crying Game way in the born without a willy way. I hope that's cleared that up.

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Post #: 42
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 3:46:58 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15398
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

I've noticed that in all the comments from those against Page 3 there's been no mention of the fact that getting rid of it would put people out of work - it's all good and well some Guardian journalist tutting and disapproving but not every young lady has the luxury of a politically correct source of income to put her through university or pay the bills.


What would they have done if Page 3 never existed in the first place? Get a job elsewhere, right? Same with the photographers, they'll just have to take pictures of something else. If the girls want to do modelling, there are plenty of other opportunities, nobody really needs Page 3.

I'm not being all 'ban Page 3', by the way, I don't care either way, I just didn't think that was a good argument.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 15/2/2013 3:47:59 PM >


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Post #: 43
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 4:09:53 PM   
Artoo

 

Posts: 230
Joined: 29/1/2013
I really don't understand peoples outrage at page 3, I mean what's so offensive about a pair of tits? (Cameron and Clegg aside) The models clearly want to do the modelling and the punters clearly want to buy the paper. Isn't it just as simple as that?

Live and let live I say. If you dont want to see tits on page 3 buy a different paper - they all report the same lies.....I mean news!

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Post #: 44
RE: The End of Page 3? - 15/2/2013 9:45:19 PM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005
There is nothing offensive about a pair of tits at all its the idea that its some how its okay to pop in a page dedicated to some teenage girls boobs for no reason in a national newspaper. It's a newspaper (I know, I know) not a porn mag. There are plenty of places to look at tits if you fancy it but its got no place in a newspaper. I know its the Sun and from what I've heard today about their current front page covering the recent murder of Reeva Steenkamp I shouldn't expect decency but it just feeds into a bigger attitude about women and their bodies that I don't think is healthy or acceptable. Its got nowt to do with nakedness.

_____________________________

Just to spare peoples blushes I feel it's only right that I should point out I'm a girl people! Not in a Crying Game way in the born without a willy way. I hope that's cleared that up.

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Post #: 45
RE: The End of Page 3? - 16/2/2013 11:10:53 AM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


Posts: 13303
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fanboyslayer

There is nothing offensive about a pair of tits at all its the idea that its some how its okay to pop in a page dedicated to some teenage girls boobs for no reason in a national newspaper. It's a newspaper (I know, I know) not a porn mag. There are plenty of places to look at tits if you fancy it but its got no place in a newspaper. I know its the Sun and from what I've heard today about their current front page covering the recent murder of Reeva Steenkamp I shouldn't expect decency but it just feeds into a bigger attitude about women and their bodies that I don't think is healthy or acceptable. Its got nowt to do with nakedness.


This same argument will only ever boil down to the usual "kids could be easily exposed to this as it's easy access in all shops etc"

So I pose the question would you rather a child see a picture of some harmless flesh, or some horrifically violent and gory pictures of some of life's biggest atrocities from wars, to thug/street violence etc?

The problem isn't that of The Sun's or specific to page 3, the issue is the British media are a shameful bunch, who are more interested in the "glamour", "shock" or "one upsman" approach to news telling than the facts and sympathy etc. Take the helicopter crash in London earlier this year, all reports were more interested in having the best pictures of the fireball than they were sympathetic of the fact at least one person had just died.

The media needs a massive shake up in general.

< Message edited by Sexual Harassment Panda -- 16/2/2013 11:15:27 AM >


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Post #: 46
RE: The End of Page 3? - 16/2/2013 12:18:35 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5096
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fanboyslayer


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


It's the same mentality that sees people campaigning to close down lapdancing bars in city centres (there's several where I llive and every year or so the dickheads with placards come out the woodwork), blissfully ignorant that if successful their moral crusade - about somerhing which, like Page 3, can be quite easily ignored - will affect the livelihoods of everyone employed there.
I've always been a lefty but smug liberal outrage doesn't half boil my piss.



No it isn't at all. If you want to work in porn then there are plenty of places to do that and I doubt that doing one or two jobs in the Sun is setting you up for life. I would imagine that you are already doing this kind of work elsewhere in general and that is just one gig of many. It doesn't need to be in a national newspaper.

As for lap dancing clubs the reason a lot of people campaign against them is because they bring certain types of men into the area that can in some cases lead to problems. I live in area that has been known for prostitution over the years (thankfully done with now) and as a young girl you would have cars slowly following you down the road waving money etc. Also with that comes drugs. We also had to have curfews on the residential roads because of all the kerb crawlers. They tried to open one here a couple of years ago and people weren't having it. Now I know lap dancing is legal and I have no real problem if that's how people want to entertain themselves or do it for a living but it can bring other things into the area which no one wants and there is nothing smug and liberal about not wanting all that crap to deal with.

No ones (at least I don't think anyone is) is talking about getting rid of porn we're talking about we're talking about removing it from something it has no place in and that is a national newspaper.

As for it being so good for women because they can earn so much money well that's just bloody depressing.


Page 3 girls aren't porn stars and just because someone poses topless doesn't mean they do (or want to do) porn.
And I'm not saying Page 3 is some valuable source of income for millions but if someone wants to pursue a career in modelling or even just make a few quid it is an opportunity and, as I said before, as an old school lefty I'm not into denying people opportunities or a means to make a living by doing something relatively harmless just to satisfy the ethics of a bunch of people who don't read The Sun or The Star anyway. I don't read them either hence I'd never suggest it should be stopped as it's quite easy to ignore. As Monstercat said, there's plenty of issues to do with national newspapers that are far more worrying.

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Post #: 47
RE: The End of Page 3? - 16/2/2013 12:33:29 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5096
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fanboyslayer
As for lap dancing clubs the reason a lot of people campaign against them is because they bring certain types of men into the area that can in some cases lead to problems. I live in area that has been known for prostitution over the years (thankfully done with now) and as a young girl you would have cars slowly following you down the road waving money etc. Also with that comes drugs. We also had to have curfews on the residential roads because of all the kerb crawlers. They tried to open one here a couple of years ago and people weren't having it. Now I know lap dancing is legal and I have no real problem if that's how people want to entertain themselves or do it for a living but it can bring other things into the area which no one wants and there is nothing smug and liberal about not wanting all that crap to deal with.


That's a shame but it's not like that everywhere, and prostitution and lapdancing are two totally separate things. I don't often frequent them myself but I've been to two and there was nowt sleazy or dangerous about them - they were pretty safe, relaxed environments and to be honest, when it comes to unsavoury types and vulnerable girls I'd be far more concerned about what goes on in normal nightclubs on a saturday night.
The people who protested against the ones in Newcastle neither lived near them (I'm fairly certain most hailed from leafy Jesmond) nor cited concerns about an influx of drugs/kerb-crawling - it was a simple ideological objection to something that, like Page 3, didn't concern them and, like the arguments for Page 3 to be stopped, didn't take into account the bigger picture.

< Message edited by horribleives -- 16/2/2013 12:37:32 PM >


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Post #: 48
RE: The End of Page 3? - 16/2/2013 9:05:08 PM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

This same argument will only ever boil down to the usual "kids could be easily exposed to this as it's easy access in all shops etc"

So I pose the question would you rather a child see a picture of some harmless flesh, or some horrifically violent and gory pictures of some of life's biggest atrocities from wars, to thug/street violence etc?

The problem isn't that of The Sun's or specific to page 3, the issue is the British media are a shameful bunch, who are more interested in the "glamour", "shock" or "one upsman" approach to news telling than the facts and sympathy etc. Take the helicopter crash in London earlier this year, all reports were more interested in having the best pictures of the fireball than they were sympathetic of the fact at least one person had just died.

The media needs a massive shake up in general.


I have zero problem with my kids seeing nakedness in all its forms but page 3 isn't about nakedness and looking at faux smiles and perscribed beauty and its not how I want my kids to experience sexuality at least not until they are old enough to know the nonsense behind it. We're a very relaxed household and my kids are always around while I'm dressing showering whatever they see naked all the time. Not least because I'm still feeding my youngest. I don't want my kids to see violence either but this thread is about page 3 so that's what I'm commenting on. I agree with what you say above but page 3 seems like such an easy fix to me that I don't see why it has to be such a hard one. I just think its time it went and I would be glad to see that back I just don't get what its for.

_____________________________

Just to spare peoples blushes I feel it's only right that I should point out I'm a girl people! Not in a Crying Game way in the born without a willy way. I hope that's cleared that up.

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Post #: 49
RE: The End of Page 3? - 16/2/2013 9:11:50 PM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


Page 3 girls aren't porn stars and just because someone poses topless doesn't mean they do (or want to do) porn.
And I'm not saying Page 3 is some valuable source of income for millions but if someone wants to pursue a career in modelling or even just make a few quid it is an opportunity and, as I said before, as an old school lefty I'm not into denying people opportunities or a means to make a living by doing something relatively harmless just to satisfy the ethics of a bunch of people who don't read The Sun or The Star anyway. I don't read them either hence I'd never suggest it should be stopped as it's quite easy to ignore. As Monstercat said, there's plenty of issues to do with national newspapers that are far more worrying.


I don't think I said they were porn stars did I? If I did that wasn't really what I meant but whats wrong with porn anyway? I don't have a problem with porn. They are things surrounding it that I have issues with such as working conditions and who really makes the money (lets face it the bunnies don't own the mansion) but I don't have a problem with porn. Theres plenty of places to do topless modelling if you want I just don't see it's place in a newspaper. Theres tons of issues more worrying but does that mean you don't deal with it. Why not its just a case of not putting it in anymore and done. Easy then on to the next stuff. I think its seemingly harmless things like this that can feed into the more serious issues and help sustain them.


_____________________________

Just to spare peoples blushes I feel it's only right that I should point out I'm a girl people! Not in a Crying Game way in the born without a willy way. I hope that's cleared that up.

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 50
RE: The End of Page 3? - 16/2/2013 9:26:17 PM   
Fanboyslayer


Posts: 2456
Joined: 22/11/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

That's a shame but it's not like that everywhere, and prostitution and lapdancing are two totally separate things. I don't often frequent them myself but I've been to two and there was nowt sleazy or dangerous about them - they were pretty safe, relaxed environments and to be honest, when it comes to unsavoury types and vulnerable girls I'd be far more concerned about what goes on in normal nightclubs on a saturday night.
The people who protested against the ones in Newcastle neither lived near them (I'm fairly certain most hailed from leafy Jesmond) nor cited concerns about an influx of drugs/kerb-crawling - it was a simple ideological objection to something that, like Page 3, didn't concern them and, like the arguments for Page 3 to be stopped, didn't take into account the bigger picture.


Of course they are two different things I'm not saying one is the same as the other. Unfortunately it's often the case that where lap dancing goes the other follows. I mean its just good business sense isn't it. If I was a pimp or a prostitute it would make sense to me to go somewhere where they may be some nicely sexied up men that might appreciate some friendly services.

If they object to it on the grounds that they find it goes against what they feel is acceptable I think that's fair enough. I mean isn't that what we all do really. We all have things that we just don't agree with. It might be gambling for some, or drinking, loud music whatever. Some places just don't want strip clubs on their doorstep and having worked in Soho in the past I can quite understand why. I get what your saying live and let live and to an extent I agree but everyone has the right to express how they feel and maybe they have a good case. I mean just because it may seem prudish doesn't always mean that they're wrong and there aren't some valid points to be taken into account.

As you say normal nightclub nights can hold far more dangers for girls and unfortunately I can attest to that myself. However I believe seemingly harmless things like a nice pair of tits in the newspaper contribute to some of the attitudes towards women that you see on the usual Saturday night crazyness. By no means wholly to blame don't get me wrong but it all drips into certain ideas and behaviours directed towards women that are harmful.

Now I must go put my feet up and watch the Avengers


_____________________________

Just to spare peoples blushes I feel it's only right that I should point out I'm a girl people! Not in a Crying Game way in the born without a willy way. I hope that's cleared that up.

(in reply to horribleives)
Post #: 51
RE: The End of Page 3? - 17/2/2013 1:58:16 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5096
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
I've noticed that in all the comments from those against Page 3 there's been no mention of the fact that getting rid of it would put people out of work - it's all good and well some Guardian journalist tutting and disapproving but not every young lady has the luxury of a politically correct source of income to put her through university or pay the bills.


Good point (assuming you're not being sarcastic).

Whilst I'm not defending any of it (if I'm absolutely honest, I couldn't really give a shit if it went or stayed - I've never bought The Sun and never will), but - a mate of mine's sister did some "erotic" photo shoots in the late 90s cos she was broke and couldn't find a job. She was a VERY attractive young woman back then (over 10 years, 2 kids and goddness knows how many thousands of fags later and time has not been so kind to her) and could basically walk into any photo studio and make money. Nothing hardcore (as far as I know), but the stuff apparently ended up in quite a few internationally known titles at the time, and she basically made enough money in the 3 or 4 years she was doing it to buy a house. Unfortunately she didn't buy a house, and just pissed it away on expensive holidays, clothes and drink, but that's not the point.
After all, one would assume these page 3 girls aren't forced into doing it are they? They must be doing it voluntarily, surely?


Can you please introduce her to a certain 21 year old virgin?

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Post #: 52
RE: The End of Page 3? - 17/2/2013 2:11:27 AM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5096
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fanboyslayer


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives

That's a shame but it's not like that everywhere, and prostitution and lapdancing are two totally separate things. I don't often frequent them myself but I've been to two and there was nowt sleazy or dangerous about them - they were pretty safe, relaxed environments and to be honest, when it comes to unsavoury types and vulnerable girls I'd be far more concerned about what goes on in normal nightclubs on a saturday night.
The people who protested against the ones in Newcastle neither lived near them (I'm fairly certain most hailed from leafy Jesmond) nor cited concerns about an influx of drugs/kerb-crawling - it was a simple ideological objection to something that, like Page 3, didn't concern them and, like the arguments for Page 3 to be stopped, didn't take into account the bigger picture.


Of course they are two different things I'm not saying one is the same as the other. Unfortunately it's often the case that where lap dancing goes the other follows. I mean its just good business sense isn't it. If I was a pimp or a prostitute it would make sense to me to go somewhere where they may be some nicely sexied up men that might appreciate some friendly services.

If they object to it on the grounds that they find it goes against what they feel is acceptable I think that's fair enough. I mean isn't that what we all do really. We all have things that we just don't agree with. It might be gambling for some, or drinking, loud music whatever. Some places just don't want strip clubs on their doorstep and having worked in Soho in the past I can quite understand why. I get what your saying live and let live and to an extent I agree but everyone has the right to express how they feel and maybe they have a good case. I mean just because it may seem prudish doesn't always mean that they're wrong and there aren't some valid points to be taken into account.

As you say normal nightclub nights can hold far more dangers for girls and unfortunately I can attest to that myself. However I believe seemingly harmless things like a nice pair of tits in the newspaper contribute to some of the attitudes towards women that you see on the usual Saturday night crazyness. By no means wholly to blame don't get me wrong but it all drips into certain ideas and behaviours directed towards women that are harmful.

Now I must go put my feet up and watch the Avengers



Dunno, I don't like rugby but I wouldn't dream of stopping other people from playing it.

_____________________________

www.hollywoodunbound.co.uk - some nonsense about alien film directors and musclebound man-children.

(in reply to Fanboyslayer)
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