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Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 3:25:45 AM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
I'm looking for some suggestions for a specific sort of list

I am looking for 12 films by-for-or about Great Britain and Ireland from the dawn of history to 1966 CE

To be clear, I am not looking necessarily for the "12 Greatest Films" related to this corner of the world. Rather I am looking for 12 rewarding films that taken together paint as complete a portrait as possible of Great Britain & Ireland (The totality of those people and places). I know it is impossible. But I ask your indulgence.

Here are my criteria:

1. At least 2 of the 12 works must focus on each of the following four epochs:
pre-857 CE
857-1856
1857-1956
1957-1966

2. At least one of the works must be a documentary.

3. No film maker can be represented more than once (although subjects may be)

4. At least 3 works must be by a native film maker.

5. At least 1 work must be a work by an outsider looking in.

6. At least 1 work must be a film by an insider looking out or beyond to the wider world.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I'm looking for a more varied and unconventional list.
Post #: 1
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 6:52:06 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
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Can we ask why you're looking with such specific criteria? What, eg. might your list be? 

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quote:

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Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to iukaslim)
Post #: 2
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 11:51:37 AM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
hmmm. You might say I don't have a "good" reason. It is just an experiment in getting out of a rut and looking at a "world history" in film. But the place of interest is based on the regions depicted on the board game RISK (yes, if i carry on, I'll be seeking 12 films by-for-and-about Irkutsk at some point).. The "epochs" delineated refer to the decade before my birth, the century before that, the millennium before that, and then turtles on down.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 3
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 12:32:10 PM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
elab, you ask for my list.
I don't have one yet. I have an idea as to how I might approach constructing one, but as it is MY rut I am trying to get out of, I want to hear from others (preferably natives...which reminds me, can you recommend any blogs dedicated to Irkytsk cinema?).

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 4
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 5:03:48 PM   
Spider


Posts: 2078
Joined: 30/9/2005
I think the question was asked because it seems rather like a coursework project.

I actually happen to think it's quite an interesting question, I've often thought about filling in knowledge of historic periods with films. However, your very specific criteria and low post count have the whiff of someone trying to get someone else do their homework for them. To fill in a list meeting all your criteria would take hours. I think you need to have a go first!

I will throw out one suggestion which is a film that is artistically rewarding as well as covering some historic detail accurately (I assume you will not include Braveheart!) - Hunger.

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Post #: 5
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 10:18:14 PM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
Spider,

I understand your suspicion, appreciate your film suggestion, and can only offer some additional info by way of explanation, clarification and apology.

First, as for HUNGER. Sounds like a worthy film, one I have not seen but I ought and will, but not as part of this project under discussion because, based on my reading of the film synopsis, it does not deal directly (enough) with The World pre-1966.

As for the low post count. I recently found myself in a rut. I vaguely wished to expand my horizons. While thinking about films and books, I happened to stumble across an online image of a RISK board game map. I thought “what if I threw a dart at the world map, and then made a point to view a film or read a book about that territory my dart strikes”…”But,” I thought, “no one film or book could give a real sense of a place. Make it a dozen!” … and something about the idea tickled me…and then OCD kicked in and I made a numbered alphabetized list of the RISK territories (there are 42 on the edition of the game map I have at hand)…I used an online random number generator which spit me the number 13…checked that against #13 on my alphabetized list: Great Britain & Ireland; and I then thought “oh, shit.”

I suppose I’d been assuming I’d draw Western Australia or Greenland or Kamchatka or some such and the challenge would be simply finding a dozen applicable movies available to me here in the US. I wouldn’t have to fuss much with winnowing my selections. But the British Isles! Oh shit man. This presented a problem of the opposite extreme. I almost gave up on the idea entirely right then, but last night I stumbled across this EMPIRE site forum, a site tied to that corner of the world, frequented by film aficionados and list makers. I figured this was my last best shot and so I signed up and posted my plea.

This is no homework assignment. I did not intend to put anybody out or make work. I had hoped maybe there might already be a list under discussion in this forum that would (near enough) chart my course for me. Or failing that, that some obvious suggestions might come easily to your (collective) mind.

I’m no great student of film. I just like movies, like a ‘normal’ person.
As points of reference, here are 4 movies I love more than others think I should:
Reckless (a lost 80’s classic starring Aidan Quinn and Daryl Hannah)
Secret of Santa Vittoria (Stanley Donen directing a different Quinn)
Professor, Beware! (a Harold Lloyd talkie)
Big Trouble in Little China
I am also a suckker for a Preston Sturges movie

As for my introduction to cinema of the British Isles…It must have been when I was about 6 or 7 years old…in a cinderblock theater in West Virginia..laughing at ‘Digby: The Biggest Dog in the World’ up on the big screen.

So that’s me.

I’ve no affection for BRAVEHEART but why would that be a bad choice, because it is a flawed film or because it is flawed history? Flawed history can be telling in its own way. It is certainly a film of note by an outsider looking in...if nothing else it offers a look at the scenery. Another film might provide a counterpoint or corrective (That said, yes no BRAVEHEART, please!)’

So, how to approach the 12. I’d start with 3 films about events that shook the world, 3 films about enduring (or recurring conflict/grudges, etc.), 3 films that offer intimate portrait of the people and life lived daily. and 3 films that are just the best goddamn films. Then I’d look the list over and if Wales, Scotland, England and all of Ireland (and each of the 4 epochs) have not all been seen and heard from in some way, I’d figure out the way to address those omissions with the fewest tweaks.

So, any hope, Obi-wan?

(in reply to Spider)
Post #: 6
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 10:23:21 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
Humphrey Jennings. As a mop up he covers a large number of your categories - social history, documentary, native.




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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to iukaslim)
Post #: 7
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 10:49:08 PM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
Just the sort of suggestion i was hoping for. One from him will certainly make the list. Thank you.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 8
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 10:54:41 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Hedd Wyn would give you a Welsh look at WWI

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Post #: 9
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 11:07:13 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
Pre 857 is probably the most difficult if good films are being looked for (as opposed to, say. Gladiatress).

I guess Brave would count if you're a fan - it looks of the period. Roman Britain probably has the most interest - Centurion or Eagle, again if to your taste.

Which leads to 857 to 1856 being quite a wide period - is there a remit to rethink the dates? Also - Peter Watkins, Culloden would give you 1746.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 10
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 11:09:07 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
Or, Britain on the wider world - Python and Life of Brian!


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 11
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 11:15:09 PM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
worth considering...or would that better serve as outsider looking in when i eventually get to "Middle East"?

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 12
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 11:21:42 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
I think you might have a few more options there than you would for that period here?

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Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to iukaslim)
Post #: 13
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 24/1/2013 11:23:24 PM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
I'm reluctant to change the date frames. But I could live with having only ONE film from the earliest epoch.

So with my concept of British Isles (pre-857) will be based on BRAVE and LIFE OF BRIAN.
Yes, I'm well on my way to winning that history chair!

< Message edited by iukaslim -- 24/1/2013 11:29:58 PM >

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 14
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 25/1/2013 2:47:33 PM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
okay, here's a first stab at a list of 20

and let me just say. it WAS quite a chore (spider was right). but the exercise expanded my horizons, so i clam it as a victory already.

I tended to favor films that were themselves pre-1966

Being Human (Forsyth)
Brave
Chimes at Midnight (Welles) - For reasons I will not bother you with discovery that such a film as this exist caused me to nearly pee my pants. How did I not know of this film until now?.
David (Dixon)
Diary of Timothy (Jennings/Foerster)
Great Expectations (a pre-1966 adaptation)
Hedd Wyn
Ipcress File
My Left Foot (Sheriden/Moore)
Only Two Can Play
Richard III (Olivier/Shakespeare)
The Citadel
The Lodger (Hitchcock)
The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner
The Quiet Man
The Secret of Kells (Moore)
The Wind That Shakes the Barley (Loach Lavderty)
Throne of Blood (Kurisawa)
Whiskey Galore (Macendrick/Mackenzie)
Zulu (Enfield/Prebble)

any comments on what ought to be cut to get me down to 12? (and if you put forward an alternative suggestion, please accompany it with two suggested cuts :)

< Message edited by iukaslim -- 25/1/2013 3:04:27 PM >

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 15
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 25/1/2013 2:56:55 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10425
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Which leads to 857 to 1856 being quite a wide period


And one film can cover it all!!!


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Post #: 16
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 25/1/2013 2:59:13 PM   
Rebel scum


Posts: 3483
Joined: 2/1/2006
Just some random thoughts:

For pre-857, I'd recommend looking at Centurion, though I doubt many would agree.
Wind That Shakes The Barley is probably the best IRA movie I've seen, and you'll want one of those.
Maybe Ironclad for 857-1856, that or an adaptation one of Shakespeare's many historical plays (Richard III or Henry V maybe).
Cromwell would cover the Civil War (gotta have a Civil War movie from a purely historical perspective, since it involves all four kingdoms).
A World War One/Two film from a British perspective would be good to include too, though none are helpfully springing to mind.

EDIT-Just spotted your list. From a historical perspective I can't see a Stuart/Civil War film, and I consider that period pretty frakkin' important, but otherwise it looks like a decent list. Not sure what Throne Of Blood's doing there, I know it's a Shakespeare adaptation but it's got nothing to do with Britain beyond the source.

< Message edited by Rebel scum -- 25/1/2013 3:01:41 PM >


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Post #: 17
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 25/1/2013 3:06:09 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14563
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
quote:

A World War One/Two film from a British perspective would be good to include too, though none are helpfully springing to mind.


Went The Day Well?

Hope and Glory.

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RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 25/1/2013 3:22:21 PM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
I'll add CROMWELL (I saw its value, but left it off my original 20 because it was post-1966 and was hoping someone here wpuld know a civil war film from pre-1966..but now it is in)

Kurisawa. I think i stuck that in there because it is a highly regarded film and I know when and if this project turns me toward Japan, I am going to be pained to select only one Kurisawa film. But, you are right it should not be on this list.

HEDD WYN touches on WWI . As for WWII, I've got the war on the home front with DIARY OF TIMOTHY...although HOPE AN GLORY might be the better option in terms of availability. WWII films (with people of the British Isles not infrequently walking into frame) will be covered on future legs of this project.

< Message edited by iukaslim -- 25/1/2013 3:33:49 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 31/1/2013 12:44:24 AM   
iukaslim

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 24/1/2013
Well here's what I ended up watching. For sanity's sake, I've decided to go with 3 movies instead of 12. And its pretty clear the 3 keys to the success of the greater enterprise are going to be availability-availability-availability.. I shouldn't fret over a list until I first look at what I can reasonably access

Of the many films mentioned, the only one checked in on DVD at my local public library this weekend was:

The Wind that Shakes the Barley.

An English Director (Ken Loach); a Scottish(ish) screenwriter (Paul Laverty); released in 2006 but set in Ireland of 1920s, specifically County Cork. Aside from it's post-1966 release date, this was a perfect example of the sort of film I'm hoping for.

I followed this with a film available online via Amazon Prime:

The Ladykillers

English Actors: Alec Guiness (apparently channeling Alistair Sim), Peter Sellers, Cecil Parker, Katie Johnson and Danny Green. London (specifically Kings Cross) location. Director Alex Mackendrick was born in the U.S. (but raised in Scotland). Screenwriter William Rose was also U.S. born but settled in England after serving in Canadian Black Watch in WWII (and gets bonus points for dying on a Channel Island)

So, having had a good look at rural Ireland of the 1920s and a corner of postwar London, it seemed, for the third film I ought to focus on the more distant past, and the coast. That led me to:

The Wicker Man.

Aside from the locations and a song with lyrics lifted from Robert Burns, It isn't clear what if anything in this film is reliably Scottish, but it does sort of take place 'outside of time' and throws in an enthusiastic mishmash of druidism and Britt Ekland.

So, there are my three films. Wales seems to have gotten the short end of the stick.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

Up next: 3 films representing the collective pre-1966 world of Colombia, Venezuala, Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana. But that's my problem, not yours.
Wish me luck
farewell

< Message edited by iukaslim -- 31/1/2013 12:53:13 AM >

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Post #: 20
RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 31/1/2013 2:00:26 AM   
directorscut


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Hangman's House
How Green Was My Valley
The Quiet Man

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RE: Great Britain and Ireland - 31/1/2013 10:39:18 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54597
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

quote:

A World War One/Two film from a British perspective would be good to include too, though none are helpfully springing to mind.


Went The Day Well?

Hope and Glory.


Check the biggest films of the 50s - the war film was THE genre in the UK back then. Started to disappear about 1957 on - then they started to get cynical and look at kitchen sinks and make the military crooks (League)


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to matty_b)
Post #: 22
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