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RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012

 
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RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 6:11:03 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy

Really need to catch up with Argo epscially as if you believe some it may cause an upset and beat the likes of Lincoln and Les Miserables to the Oscar, which I don't buy but its certainly interesting.


Argo is more of a favourite than either of them. Les Mis is a rank outsider.


Don't know what planet you are living on thinking that, reguardless of what you think of the three films, history says that Lincoln and Les Miserables are the sort of films which tend to win best picture not Argo which has been a suprise indie hit and until recently has been just in front of Amour and Beasts as a outsider. It has only be recently with Argo winning awards in the run up which has put it in the running. It would be nice for a left field choice to win.


Argo was one of the favourites to win for the last few months. Argo has won the Producer's Guild Award. Since 1989, the film that has won the Producer's Guild Award has gone on to win the Oscar 18 times. Argo also won the Screen Actor's Guild best ensemble over tough competition. Since 1995, the winner has gone on to win Best Picture eight times. When the same film has won both the PGA and SAG ensemble, the film has won the Oscar all but twice. Argo doesn't have a best director nomination, which hurts the film, only three films have ever won best picture without a best director nomination - Wings, Grand Hotel and Driving Miss Daisy. Driving Miss Daisy was a PGA winner, btw. Argo is the frontrunner, that's on planet Earth, btw. Les Miserables doesn't have a best director nomination, it also doesn't have the benefit of guild support or a best editing nomination. In the history of the Oscars, only nine films have won best picture without a best editing nomination. A film hasn't won best picture without an editing nomination since Ordinary People in 1980. Since the editing Oscar was introduced in 1934 if a film hasn't been nominated for either or those two awards, it hasn't won best picture. Les Miserables hasn't been getting support from the guilds. It didn't sweep the critics awards, and it didn't get the two key Oscar noms for winning best picture. If it should win, it would be one of the biggest upsets in the history of the Oscars. Now you can argue all you want about "films like... usually win" but that's ultimately irrelevant. What matters is what films the guilds support, because the guilds are the people who actually vote.

Argo is the favourite because it's won the guild
Silver Linings is second because it has the overwhelming support of the largest voting body in the Academy, along with support from the directors and editors.
Lincoln is slightly behind because it didn't get an editing nomination
Amour, Beasts and Life of Pi are just behind that because they all have directing noms.
Zero Dark Thirty, Les Mis and Django are the most unlikely to win right now. The only way any of this changes is if someone other than Affleck wins the DGA.

That's not saying Argo is definitely going to win best picture, it's saying it's the clear frontrunner right now.

Now, do you want to try basing your response on facts?

Actually, one correction, Lincoln did get the editing nom, I was mixing it up with Amour. So Lincoln is slightly ahead of Silver Linings because it got a DGA nom and Linings didn't.


Argo is favourite for Oscar after DGA win

CLICK

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Post #: 61
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 6:17:16 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Argo is in a really weird position. It's now won three of the four big guilds, but it can't win best director at the Oscars. So basically it's either going to do a Driving Miss Daisy or it's going to do an Apollo 13. Lincoln seems to be dead outside of TLJ and DDL at the moment. When Apollo 13 lost to Braveheart, Braveheart at least had a GG best director win to its name. It's a history making year, no matter what happens. Best director is fascinating, because if it does split with Argo winning picture, then best director is nearly impossible to predict based on the history and the precursors.

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 62
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 6:24:24 PM   
SadFace

 

Posts: 1791
Joined: 1/1/2008
From: Derbyshire / Leicester
As much as I love Les Mis, it will not win Best Picture. It's never been a favourite.

_____________________________

Tobias, you blowhard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

That's the most wrong I've ever seen someone be on this forum. And both Gimli and Elab post here.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 63
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 6:31:30 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Les Mis was basically a bit of a Dreamgirls, a film that got talked about well in advance as the potential frontrunner based on the prestige of the production itself, but the feeling for it as an Oscar film died off when Argo and Lincoln were seeming the popular favourites and ZDT was scoring big with the critic award ceremonies. And like Dreamgirls, it seems like that one big emotional song has really nailed it the supporting actress Oscar. I don't mean that as a swipe at the film, but the way everyone has focused on Hathaway and Dreamed a Dream is very reminiscent of Hudson and I Am Telling You.

(in reply to SadFace)
Post #: 64
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 6:42:01 PM   
SadFace

 

Posts: 1791
Joined: 1/1/2008
From: Derbyshire / Leicester

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Les Mis was basically a bit of a Dreamgirls, a film that got talked about well in advance as the potential frontrunner based on the prestige of the production itself, but the feeling for it as an Oscar film died off when Argo and Lincoln were seeming the popular favourites and ZDT was scoring big with the critic award ceremonies. And like Dreamgirls, it seems like that one big emotional song has really nailed it the supporting actress Oscar. I don't mean that as a swipe at the film, but the way everyone has focused on Hathaway and Dreamed a Dream is very reminiscent of Hudson and I Am Telling You.


That's exactly the thought I had. I'm a big fan of Hathaway though so I don't have a problem with this - not that it should be inherently problematic. It's like when the Daily Mail gave Les Mis a glowing 5-star review (don't ask why I was reading the DM) and based on that, they had the audacity to claim that the film was the frontrunner to clean up at the Oscars. I will defend the film, yes, but I also know that it's far from being the frontrunner, and, again, I don't have a problem with that.

_____________________________

Tobias, you blowhard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

That's the most wrong I've ever seen someone be on this forum. And both Gimli and Elab post here.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 65
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:02:19 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
That's the thing, it's not about liking or hating the films, it's simply about the history and the actual ways films position themselves as frontrunners. If it wasn't for Affleck being snubbed in director, there'd be nobody disagreeing that Argo was the lock for the winner right now. But that snub makes it interesting, because there's no way of knowing where best director is going, there's also no way of knowing if the love for the director will transfer over to best picture. When Driving Miss Daisy won without the director nom, Oliver Stone took the DGA and then the Oscar. Bafta could get a tip off if they don't go with Affleck, but only 2 of the 5 Bafta best director nominees are also in the Oscar line-up, Ang Lee and Haneke. If one of them wins the Bafta, it makes things far more interesting for the Oscars. The SAG win is the most interesting, I think. Because while it's a good ensemble cast, there are bigger ensemble casts in the running, and it seems like people really wanting to honour Argo in some way.

(in reply to SadFace)
Post #: 66
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:04:19 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3940
Joined: 19/10/2005
6/ THE MASTER


Though I watch more films than is probably healthy, I had unbelievably never seen a Paul Thomas Anderson film prior to watching The Master. They just didnít seem like my cup of tea, which sounds like a lame excuse considering the variety of films I like, but thereís always too many movies to see and not enough time to see them, especially if you still want to have a Ďlifeí! Now that I have been seen The Master, Iím going to check out his other work as soon as possible. Uncomprising and disturbing in an often very subtle way [how on earth can the sight of the lovely Amy Adams giving a man a handjob be unpleasant?], this is a film for the patient and intelligent viewer who is prepared to think about what they seeing and not have everything wrapped up in a pretty pink ribbon. Joaquin Phoenix continues to be one of the finest actors of his generation, but then every performance is note-perfect in this thoroughly impressive drama.

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Post #: 67
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:06:32 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
Finally a film I like!

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Post #: 68
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:07:00 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3940
Joined: 19/10/2005
5/ PARANORMAN


Quite simply the best animated film in some time, a wonderfully clever, subversive romp of a film which works as a horror film for the young kiddies but also as a loving twist on concepts and cliches of the genre for the adults. Superbly plotted, with at least two developments which I didnít expect, it still feels able to be funny while refusing to pander to expectations of what a kids movie [which is, lets face it, what ParaNorman was marketed as] should be, such as sugarcoating everything. Itís also a technical marvel, stunning visually and taking the art of stop-motion further than it has ever been taken before, while the characters [even the dead ones] feel rounded and alive, but, to be honest, it was its loving, warm nostalgic feel for a more innocent, less knowing time and by extension the first stage in this horror fanís life, that made this child of old monster movies fall in love with it.

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Post #: 69
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:09:45 PM   
SadFace

 

Posts: 1791
Joined: 1/1/2008
From: Derbyshire / Leicester
The uncertainty surrounding the Best Director nom and whether or not this will influence Best Picture is, I think, what's getting me excited the most for this year's awards, especially now Argo seems to be doing relatively well. Overall, I think this year is a much stronger selection than last year.

_____________________________

Tobias, you blowhard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

That's the most wrong I've ever seen someone be on this forum. And both Gimli and Elab post here.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 70
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:11:37 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
I'll finally get to see The Master during the week and I can't wait. As far as I can tell it only had one showing in the closest Cineworld to me so I've had to wait for the local Theatre screening this coming Wednesday (this cold better had have cleared by then because fuck it I'll gladly infect every other fucker in the screening with it ).

ParaNorman is great. I didn't expect to enjoy it so much. I prefered Frankenweenie to it but it's still great fun.

< Message edited by Harry Tuttle -- 3/2/2013 7:13:09 PM >


_____________________________

Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

Blood Island. So called because it's the exact shape of some blood

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Post #: 71
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:16:37 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadFace

The uncertainty surrounding the Best Director nom and whether or not this will influence Best Picture is, I think, what's getting me excited the most for this year's awards, especially now Argo seems to be doing relatively well. Overall, I think this year is a much stronger selection than last year.


Last year I really liked four of the best director nominations and they gave it to the one I disliked.

quote:

ParaNorman is great. I didn't expect to enjoy it so much.


I developed a loathing for Paranorman before I even saw it. I was in America for three months last year and watching t.v. shows through the On Demand catch-up service, every single NBC show I watched has built-in adverts that you couldn't skip through. So every episode of Community, Parks & Rec and a few other shows had ads for Jay Leno (who I think is a twat anyway) a morning show, and for some reason, Paranorman. So I was seeing the same minute long ad about 12 - 16 times every two weeks. So the fact that I liked it as much as I did, and would put it only below Wreck-It Ralph for last year's American animation, absolutely astonished me.

(in reply to SadFace)
Post #: 72
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 7:21:42 PM   
SadFace

 

Posts: 1791
Joined: 1/1/2008
From: Derbyshire / Leicester

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: SadFace

The uncertainty surrounding the Best Director nom and whether or not this will influence Best Picture is, I think, what's getting me excited the most for this year's awards, especially now Argo seems to be doing relatively well. Overall, I think this year is a much stronger selection than last year.


Last year I really liked four of the best director nominations and they gave it to the one I disliked.


I actually meant the quality of films in general but yeah, that sounds like you

_____________________________

Tobias, you blowhard.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

That's the most wrong I've ever seen someone be on this forum. And both Gimli and Elab post here.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 73
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 3/2/2013 8:04:53 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.


I thought there were quite a few bad films in the line-up last year, yeah.

(in reply to SadFace)
Post #: 74
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 4/2/2013 9:58:02 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3940
Joined: 19/10/2005
4/ RED DOG


There is a good chance you may not actually have heard of Red Dog. This Australian film seemed to come and go in cinemas, and I reckon some of those few, probably with kids in tow, who did get to see it thought it was another comical kidís film about a loveable dog doing funny things and were disappointed when it wasnít. Well, I expected another comical kidís film about a loveable dog doing funny things myself but was not at all disappointed when it turned out to be something different. Filled with that Aussie quirkiness that is a major part of many great films from Down Under, you will fall in love with its title character [and if you don't, there's really no hope for you] as the film tells its true story, but more than that it is a beautiful microcosm of life, mixing joy and sadness, humour and seriousness as it lets us live with its brilliantly drawn,acted and very real characters in a way that, when the film ended, really made me feel philosophical about life in an uplifting way.

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Post #: 75
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 4/2/2013 10:01:39 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3940
Joined: 19/10/2005
3/ AVENGERS ASSEMBLE


I'm not the biggest fan of Joss Whedon, whose work too often comes across as thinking its cleverer than it actually is and not making the most of a great premise. This year's The Cabin In The Woods contained both those flaws and is a perfect example of a movie which starts off well and gets progressively worse, though it still managed to be fun throughout. No such complaints about Avengers Assemble, in which he succeeded in the hugely difficult task of bringing all those Marvel superheroes together and making it coherent. It's commerial blockbuster filmmaking at its very best, filled with awe-inspiring action and special effects, but done with care and intelligence. It knows and revels in the absurdity of it all, gently sending it up while at the same time celebrating these wonderful characters and making you care deeply for them. The cast all play their roles superbly, all have great moments and none get lost amidst everything, while at last we have a convincing Hulk! Even the post-added 3D wasn't too bad, if still not neccessary.

_____________________________

check out more of my reviews on http://horrorcultfilms.co.uk/

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Post #: 76
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 5/2/2013 2:53:51 PM   
ElephantBoy

 

Posts: 8392
Joined: 13/4/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElephantBoy

Really need to catch up with Argo epscially as if you believe some it may cause an upset and beat the likes of Lincoln and Les Miserables to the Oscar, which I don't buy but its certainly interesting.


Argo is more of a favourite than either of them. Les Mis is a rank outsider.


Don't know what planet you are living on thinking that, reguardless of what you think of the three films, history says that Lincoln and Les Miserables are the sort of films which tend to win best picture not Argo which has been a suprise indie hit and until recently has been just in front of Amour and Beasts as a outsider. It has only be recently with Argo winning awards in the run up which has put it in the running. It would be nice for a left field choice to win.


Argo was one of the favourites to win for the last few months. Argo has won the Producer's Guild Award. Since 1989, the film that has won the Producer's Guild Award has gone on to win the Oscar 18 times. Argo also won the Screen Actor's Guild best ensemble over tough competition. Since 1995, the winner has gone on to win Best Picture eight times. When the same film has won both the PGA and SAG ensemble, the film has won the Oscar all but twice. Argo doesn't have a best director nomination, which hurts the film, only three films have ever won best picture without a best director nomination - Wings, Grand Hotel and Driving Miss Daisy. Driving Miss Daisy was a PGA winner, btw. Argo is the frontrunner, that's on planet Earth, btw. Les Miserables doesn't have a best director nomination, it also doesn't have the benefit of guild support or a best editing nomination. In the history of the Oscars, only nine films have won best picture without a best editing nomination. A film hasn't won best picture without an editing nomination since Ordinary People in 1980. Since the editing Oscar was introduced in 1934 if a film hasn't been nominated for either or those two awards, it hasn't won best picture. Les Miserables hasn't been getting support from the guilds. It didn't sweep the critics awards, and it didn't get the two key Oscar noms for winning best picture. If it should win, it would be one of the biggest upsets in the history of the Oscars. Now you can argue all you want about "films like... usually win" but that's ultimately irrelevant. What matters is what films the guilds support, because the guilds are the people who actually vote.

Argo is the favourite because it's won the guild
Silver Linings is second because it has the overwhelming support of the largest voting body in the Academy, along with support from the directors and editors.
Lincoln is slightly behind because it didn't get an editing nomination
Amour, Beasts and Life of Pi are just behind that because they all have directing noms.
Zero Dark Thirty, Les Mis and Django are the most unlikely to win right now. The only way any of this changes is if someone other than Affleck wins the DGA.

That's not saying Argo is definitely going to win best picture, it's saying it's the clear frontrunner right now.

Now, do you want to try basing your response on facts?

Actually, one correction, Lincoln did get the editing nom, I was mixing it up with Amour. So Lincoln is slightly ahead of Silver Linings because it got a DGA nom and Linings didn't.


Argo is favourite for Oscar after DGA†win

CLICK

Thanks for reading my post properly

I did say it has become a favourite on the back of the guild win, but that is a recent thing. Still say it would be a slight suprise, a nice one yes.

I get your thinking Rawls on Les Mis but don't forgot Muscials tranditonally do well at the Oscars, not least ones of this epic nature.

Back to the list

The Master is of course excellent, but I must see it again soon as I was unclear first time around if it was one of PTA's truly great films. An odd and beautfiul story, visually amazing with a great score and Phoenix really should bag that oscar.

Paranorman was a wonderful old school animation.

Avengers is great entertainment, in my top twenty but not quite as high as you rank it.

< Message edited by ElephantBoy -- 5/2/2013 2:55:14 PM >

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Post #: 77
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 6/2/2013 10:01:35 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3940
Joined: 19/10/2005
2/ THE DICTATOR


Films can really divide people, and I know lists that include The Dictator as one of the worst films of the year. It is also indisputable proof that comedy, more than any other type of entertainment, is a very acquired taste. My wife loves Friends; I just want Jason Voorhees to come along and hack the lot of those smug, irritating people to bits. I personally consider Sacha Baron Cohen a comedic genius, and Iím now at the stage where the very sight of a picture of one of his characters makes me laugh. For me, The Dictator is total and utter proof that Cohen doesnít need his usual interview format in a totally insane, unbelievably audacious comedy that has clearly offended some, and it seems to be mostly those annoying politically correct extremists who claim they are for free speech but actually want to stop people saying anything they donít like. The Dictator, as usual for Cohen, savagely attacks social ills and prejudices while still [uncomfortably for some] lets you laugh at them with the hope that you will then think about why you were laughing. Itís a much more intelligent film than it seems to be, but more than anything else I just took away some of the most side-splitting scenes in years. The mobile phone! The head! Aladeenís double!

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Post #: 78
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 6/2/2013 10:18:17 PM   
Dr Lenera

 

Posts: 3940
Joined: 19/10/2005
1/ HOLY MOTORS


Now on the website I write for, I did an article similar to this thread and had as my top film of the film Sleep Tight, Jaume Balaguero's absolutely gripping thriller. However, in a way I cheated, because Sleep Tight was actually made in 2011. I made a case for including it by saying it had only come to UK cinemas in 2012, though entirely for festivals, and I made it quite clear that having it was partly to show how weak a year 2012 was for cinema. However, last week I saw a film from 2012 that I didn't get to see at the cinema [most of the really interesting movies don't get shown where I live] and I was almost blown away, so I am having it as my number one film. Leos Carax's surreal meditation on cinema, our need for entertainment, and probably a dozen things beside, raised my spirits as I watched it, letting me know that there are still filmmakers out there willing to take risks, push boundaries and not be bothered by conforming to the latest fad or focus groups or fucking 3D. My review on the thread for this film explains my feelings in detail about this insane,audacious but also thoroughly entertaining and even rather funny throwback to a time where more filmmakers were willing to make films like this.

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Post #: 79
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 7/2/2013 7:50:52 AM   
Gimli The Dwarf


Posts: 77513
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Central Park Zoo
The only film I've seen in the top 6 is Avengers, which is terrific entertainment.

Nice list Doc!



_____________________________

So, sir, we let him have it right up! And I have to report, sir, he did not like it, sir.

Fellow scientists, poindexters, geeks.

Yeah, Mr. White! Yeah, science!

Much more better!

(in reply to Dr Lenera)
Post #: 80
RE: Doc'sTop Twenty Films Of 2012 - 8/2/2013 1:52:52 AM   
ElephantBoy

 

Posts: 8392
Joined: 13/4/2006
Deverse list anyway, with a few very good films in there. Need to see your number one choice.

(in reply to Gimli The Dwarf)
Post #: 81
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