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DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 1:31:16 PM   
Cool Breeze


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This has been mentioned elsewhee on the forum, but i think it deserves its own thread.As some of you may know, the picture quality on the 3d blu ray release of Dredd is absolutley abysmal.For a brand new release like this to have such a poor transfer is just unaccptable.Watching it yesterday, it often looked like it was some illegal pirate copy of the film i had watched.Terrible colour timing, blurred picture, and very bad grain amongst other problems.

Has this been limited to our region? The bluray.com review of the american disc reported no such problems.Did anyone buy the standard dvd of the film and is the problem the same on that front or is this one of those occasions where the dvd is actually superior to the blu ray?

I feel that that the company who released this disc have royally screwed up this release and feel there should be a replacement disc option for those who payed for it with a properly mastered transfer.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 2:06:45 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


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The 3D version looks great!

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 2:36:28 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

The 3D version looks great!


Shut up.

Seriously though.At first i thought it was i incorrectly chose the 3D setting on the disc instead of 2D, but no it looked just as weird.Has it got something to do with both settings on one disc? I was under the impression that the set would have two discs.One for 3D and one for 2D like Prometheus for example which looks great in normal 2D.

Regardless, its an awful screw up by the distributors and there shuould be a replacement option like with what happened for the Star Trek TNG season 1 blu ray when it was found that early copies of that set had disc audio problems.

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Post #: 3
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 3:02:24 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
Are we certain that this wasn't intentional (ala The French Connection)? It looks like crap, but its so extreme that it seems almost unusual that it got out like this.

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Post #: 4
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 3:16:57 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2602
Joined: 30/9/2005
I don't personally think it's that bad.

The film was shot digitally using a combination of different cameras (RED MX, SI2Ks & Phantom Flex according to the web), I'd expect the look of the movie and overall picture quality to vary slightly here and there as a result.

The digital noise (I assume that's what it is) is definitely a distraction in a few of the darker scenes, but given the way it was filmed I'd definitely expect some of that to a degree.

I can't specifically remember what it looked like in the cinema sadly, I don't remember it looking particularly great if memory serves, it's an ugly film (intentionally so I'd wager) to begin with and the darkening from the 3D glasses only made things worse.

That said, the 3D version on Blu-Ray supposedly fares a whole lot better for reasons unknown, the 2D version on the disk is simply just one of the two eyes as far as I'm aware (usually the left one I think), so it's strange it should look so much worse in certain scenes. Perhaps the other 3D frame is better and when the two are merged it hides the problem to an extent, I honestly don't know.

Either way I don't think it's quite as simple as an authoring or encoding issue, someone like DPP could probably clarify things a bit better if he's knocking about.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 4:07:37 PM   
directorscut


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http://www.doblu.com/2013/01/10/dredd-bluray-review/

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 6:41:53 PM   
rich


Posts: 5189
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

The 3D version looks great!


Shame nobody spends their money on that rubbish eh!


I'll give the PQ a looking at as soon as I get around to it

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 9:05:31 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9313
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

The 3D version looks great!


Shut up.

Seriously though.At first i thought it was i incorrectly chose the 3D setting on the disc instead of 2D, but no it looked just as weird.Has it got something to do with both settings on one disc? I was under the impression that the set would have two discs.One for 3D and one for 2D like Prometheus for example which looks great in normal 2D.

Regardless, its an awful screw up by the distributors and there shuould be a replacement option like with what happened for the Star Trek TNG season 1 blu ray when it was found that early copies of that set had disc audio problems.


The Hugo Blu Ray is a good example of how good both a 2D and 3D presentation can look when on the same disc. The 2D version of Hugo is demo material, as is the 3D. I agree, this 2D presentation of Dredd is really horrible in places. BUT in other places it does look excellent, it's just that when the bad shots rear their ugly heads, they look sooooo bad, it stands out a mile. Very aggravating.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 16/1/2013 9:06:25 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9313
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich


quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

The 3D version looks great!


Shame nobody spends their money on that rubbish eh!



Well the movie was shot in and designed to be seen in 3D, and looks AMAZING! The slow mo sequences in particular look astounding.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 17/1/2013 1:18:43 AM   
theoriginalcynic

 

Posts: 6521
Joined: 10/4/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

http://www.doblu.com/2013/01/10/dredd-bluray-review/


I haven't seen the film yet but awful review. The guy slags the film off and awards it four stars.

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Post #: 10
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 17/1/2013 1:28:06 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3251
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford
After reading dire reviews about the quality of the 2D BR I purposefully bought the DVD. I've JUST finished watching it upscaled through my BR player and it looked stunning! No complaints here at all and the film was excellent. Loved it!

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 17/1/2013 12:39:49 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: losthighway

After reading dire reviews about the quality of the 2D BR I purposefully bought the DVD. I've JUST finished watching it upscaled through my BR player and it looked stunning! No complaints here at all and the film was excellent. Loved it!


Thank you! I think i may try to have my BR replaced with the dvd. I purchase it from play.com and still have my receipt.

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Post #: 12
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 17/1/2013 3:54:14 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2602
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Thank you! I think i may try to have my BR replaced with the dvd. I purchase it from play.com and still have my receipt.



I honestly wouldn't bother, having glanced at a DVDRip out of pure curiosity and it's still murky mess in the same spots, the digital noise is just harder to spot on a low definition source, much like film grain is less obvious on DVD compared to Blu-Ray.

Just my opinion of course, personally I wouldn't even consider it, outside of the problematic scenes you're left with, well, the DVD, the Blu-Ray leaves it for dust.

< Message edited by paulyboy -- 17/1/2013 3:59:01 PM >


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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 17/1/2013 4:59:11 PM   
jcthefirst


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Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
Watched it last night and the grain (or whatever) is very noticeable in a few scenes, but hardly enough to spoil the film for me, and it kinda sorta fits in with the film's aesthetic.

Kinda.

Sorta.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 18/1/2013 9:03:25 AM   
MuckyMuckMan

 

Posts: 2380
Joined: 1/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

Watched it last night and the grain (or whatever) is very noticeable in a few scenes, but hardly enough to spoil the film for me, and it kinda sorta fits in with the film's aesthetic.

Kinda.

Sorta.


Agreed, I wouldn't have made a huge fuss about it. It's certainly not as if the grain is in any pivitol scenes or action too. The thing is we're all now so spoilt on having crystal clear images flicker across our screens, for some the grain is deemed totally unacceptable. Just remember those VHS days and you may come to terms with the grain in the odd situation. I have to admit though that one particular scene in Dredd was really really bad, blurred and grainy but I haven't seen it at the cinema so I have nothing to compare it to.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 18/1/2013 10:52:46 AM   
UTB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MuckyMuckMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcthefirst

Watched it last night and the grain (or whatever) is very noticeable in a few scenes, but hardly enough to spoil the film for me, and it kinda sorta fits in with the film's aesthetic.

Kinda.

Sorta.


The thing is we're all now so spoilt on having crystal clear images flicker across our screens, for some the grain is deemed totally unacceptable.



Are we talking about the same thing here? Grain is perfectly acceptable. A recent example would be The Grey which had a lot of grain in some scenes but this was clearly intended. With Dredd it looked to me like it wasn't intentional at all.

I need to re-watch it as there are a couple of unbelievably bad moments in which I'll take a capture of.

For the record I'm very much pro-grain but in certain places Dredd looked utter shite.

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Post #: 16
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 18/1/2013 3:17:05 PM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1165
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB

Are we talking about the same thing here? Grain is perfectly acceptable. A recent example would be The Grey which had a lot of grain in some scenes but this was clearly intended. With Dredd it looked to me like it wasn't intentional at all.

I need to re-watch it as there are a couple of unbelievably bad moments in which I'll take a capture of.

For the record I'm very much pro-grain but in certain places Dredd looked utter shite.


Grain can be used as a stylistic device. Films like 300 had lots of (fake) grain to achieve a certain look. It can also be due to limitations in the photography.

II haven't seen Dredd yet so can't comment on how it looks other than from the screen grabs offered above but that is digital noise not film grain. The film was digital from start to finish so there is no question of it being natural film grain, but that can be faked very well and very easily.

I'd be willing to bet that this noise is due to the photography rather than any stylistic choice. It looks like it is inherent in the original footage.

Shooting with 3D rigs robs the cameras of a stop of light; half the amount of light is available to the sensor than there would be without the 3D rig. This has to be compensated for, either by lighting or by upping the ISO on the sensor. A high ISO is more sensitive but is more noisy.

It looks like the shot linked to in the review was low light and high ISO: the type of noise shown is consistent with that conjecture.

Of course this could have been mitigated in post with a little (shock horror) noise reduction but it evidently wasn't.

This of course doesn't answer the question: is it a bad encode or just an ugly film? I'd guess the latter is more likely to be the case and this is a decent representation of how the film's digital cinema release looked. But that is based on gut reaction rather than any particular evidence.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 18/1/2013 3:25:37 PM   
UTB


Posts: 9993
Joined: 30/9/2005
Appreciate the post DPP - the site I looked at earlier which screencaps the entire movie (though is of course by no means a true representation of what it looks like on Blu) had images like this one:

http://screencapped.net/movies/albums/userpics/10003/dredd2012-0994.jpg

They aren't all this bad looking but this was what I was trying to describe one of the less impressive scenes...

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Post #: 18
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 18/1/2013 4:41:05 PM   
directorscut


Posts: 10891
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: theoriginalcynic


quote:

ORIGINAL: directorscut

http://www.doblu.com/2013/01/10/dredd-bluray-review/


I haven't seen the film yet but awful review. The guy slags the film off and awards it four stars.



If you think the review of the film was the reason I posted that link I hate to tell ya - you're nuts.


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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 21/1/2013 11:51:36 AM   
losthighway


Posts: 3251
Joined: 25/1/2006
From: Manchesterford

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulyboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Thank you! I think i may try to have my BR replaced with the dvd. I purchase it from play.com and still have my receipt.



I honestly wouldn't bother, having glanced at a DVDRip out of pure curiosity and it's still murky mess in the same spots, the digital noise is just harder to spot on a low definition source, much like film grain is less obvious on DVD compared to Blu-Ray.

Just my opinion of course, personally I wouldn't even consider it, outside of the problematic scenes you're left with, well, the DVD, the Blu-Ray leaves it for dust.


I guess it depends if you want the 3D version or not... And a DVDRip won't be the same quality as a DVD. usually i'd be with you on the BR over DVD purchase but have to say the 2D version of this film has got universally panned and as I said the upscaled DVD through the BR was very nice. Oddly no notice nasty grain...

On a similar point, I recently got The Walking Deaad: Season 2 on DVD for the same reason... the visual artistic choice by the creators makes the BR of that show pretty much worthless!

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 21/1/2013 1:47:43 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9313
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G

quote:

ORIGINAL: losthighway


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulyboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Thank you! I think i may try to have my BR replaced with the dvd. I purchase it from play.com and still have my receipt.



I honestly wouldn't bother, having glanced at a DVDRip out of pure curiosity and it's still murky mess in the same spots, the digital noise is just harder to spot on a low definition source, much like film grain is less obvious on DVD compared to Blu-Ray.

Just my opinion of course, personally I wouldn't even consider it, outside of the problematic scenes you're left with, well, the DVD, the Blu-Ray leaves it for dust.


I guess it depends if you want the 3D version or not... And a DVDRip won't be the same quality as a DVD. usually i'd be with you on the BR over DVD purchase but have to say the 2D version of this film has got universally panned and as I said the upscaled DVD through the BR was very nice. Oddly no notice nasty grain...

On a similar point, I recently got The Walking Deaad: Season 2 on DVD for the same reason... the visual artistic choice by the creators makes the BR of that show pretty much worthless!


What a ridiculous statement. The Walking Dead looks amazing on blu ray. The aesthetic the creators have gone for fits the show perfectly and you're missing out on a lot of that if you go for the DVD. You may not personally like the way the show is intended to look, but i'd rather see it as intended, grain and all.

Just to clarify (again), the problem with aspects of the 2D Dredd blu ray is not grain, but digital noise. There's a big difference between the two.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 21/1/2013 2:28:34 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978

This of course doesn't answer the question: is it a bad encode or just an ugly film? I'd guess the latter is more likely to be the case and this is a decent representation of how the film's digital cinema release looked. But that is based on gut reaction rather than any particular evidence.


I was actually quite scathing of the films visual presentation on theatrical release, even going as far as to suggest that the 3D helped to mask the ugliness in my review of the film on initial release. I'm still not convinced it was *this* bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 21/1/2013 2:29:12 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 21/1/2013 3:31:47 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2602
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: losthighway


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulyboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Thank you! I think i may try to have my BR replaced with the dvd. I purchase it from play.com and still have my receipt.



I honestly wouldn't bother, having glanced at a DVDRip out of pure curiosity and it's still murky mess in the same spots, the digital noise is just harder to spot on a low definition source, much like film grain is less obvious on DVD compared to Blu-Ray.

Just my opinion of course, personally I wouldn't even consider it, outside of the problematic scenes you're left with, well, the DVD, the Blu-Ray leaves it for dust.


I guess it depends if you want the 3D version or not... And a DVDRip won't be the same quality as a DVD. usually i'd be with you on the BR over DVD purchase but have to say the 2D version of this film has got universally panned and as I said the upscaled DVD through the BR was very nice. Oddly no notice nasty grain...

On a similar point, I recently got The Walking Deaad: Season 2 on DVD for the same reason... the visual artistic choice by the creators makes the BR of that show pretty much worthless!


A DVDRip is rarely quite as good as the original DVD, this is true, a lossless copy when your converting into a different format is nigh on impossible, but some of the more sizable rips are still 97% representative of what the DVD is liable to look like.

The point stands, yes the digital noise is somewhat intrusive on the Blu-Ray in parts, but I wouldn't trade that for the DVD which is lacking in just about every other department compared to, yes, even the 2D Blu-Ray.

I can see I'm fighting a losing battle here given your Walking Dead comment though, the Blu-Ray's of that show look fantastic, but each to their own, whatever floats your boat.

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RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 24/1/2013 9:17:12 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1165
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

I was actually quite scathing of the films visual presentation on theatrical release, even going as far as to suggest that the 3D helped to mask the ugliness in my review of the film on initial release. I'm still not convinced it was *this* bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.


I finally watched this (in 2D).

It is certainly far noisier than the norm. I'm almost certain it is sensor noise from the camera rather than anything untoward done in mastering and replication.

My inexpert opinion: it is just an ugly film (suitably so) and the Blu-ray reflects this.

As I didn't see it in the cinema I can't comment on how it looked there. But I've observed that many of us obsess far less over image quality when we see something on the big screen than we do when we watch the same at home. This is especially true when we start looking at films a frame at a time.

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Post #: 24
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 24/1/2013 10:03:11 AM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978


quote:

ORIGINAL: adambatman82

I was actually quite scathing of the films visual presentation on theatrical release, even going as far as to suggest that the 3D helped to mask the ugliness in my review of the film on initial release. I'm still not convinced it was *this* bad, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.


I finally watched this (in 2D).

It is certainly far noisier than the norm. I'm almost certain it is sensor noise from the camera rather than anything untoward done in mastering and replication.

My inexpert opinion: it is just an ugly film (suitably so) and the Blu-ray reflects this.

As I didn't see it in the cinema I can't comment on how it looked there. But I've observed that many of us obsess far less over image quality when we see something on the big screen than we do when we watch the same at home. This is especially true when we start looking at films a frame at a time.



That's a really interesting point, I've never really noticed a 'bad' picture when at the cinema. I've experienced poor projections (dim bulbs, incorrect aspect rations, off screen projections etc), that I complained about and were sorted during the screening, but never had anything I would consider bad. In fact years ago I kinda enjoyed the fact that cinema presentations were often scratched and marked and it added to the cinema 'feel'. In recent years though, I've started to notice really good picture presentations in cinema, Prometheus being a recent example where I was really blown away by the clarity and detail of the picture (The Hobbit's clarity doesn't count as the HFR redered large parts unwatchable for me - Radaghast's diversion of the orcs being the best example!). It's something that years ago, in the days of home VHS and DVD, I never really noticed or worried about. The leap from VHS to DVD was, at the time staggering, and I sometimes look back at VHS movies and can't beleive how we ever managed with such crappy picture quality. Obviously now in the days of HD and Blu-Ray we're even more spoiled. I haven't seen Dredd on Blu Ray yet, although it's going to be a purchase some day soon as I axtually quite enjoyed it, but I suspect the picture (based on the screen shots I've seen) vary's wildly and actually probably suits the movie's tone/style anyway (deliberate or not). Either way, I suspect it is a fair bit better than how we consumed movies at home for 20+ years prior to the release of DVD and subsequent HD formats.

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Post #: 25
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 5/2/2013 10:32:40 PM   
rich


Posts: 5189
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
Did anyone ever check the US import then?

Also, did we get screwed over on extras, there wasn't a lot of start with but it seems like they still got more.

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Post #: 26
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 6/2/2013 1:45:55 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 9313
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
The US disc is apparently identical with regard to the PQ issues. Also yes, we are missing some extras. there's a visual FX featurette that we dont have and a doco about Judge Dredd and 200 AD that runs for way longer than the poxy one we get on the UK disc.



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Post #: 27
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 10/2/2013 9:24:25 AM   
Stuntgoat


Posts: 680
Joined: 7/10/2005
I watched the 3D version last night and I agree the picture quality is pretty bad especially in the darker scenes, at some points it was like watching a VHS copy, anything that should be black has a blue tinge to it. The scenes in the light don't look to bad, I certainly don't remeber it looking this bad on the cinema.

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Post #: 28
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 10/2/2013 10:22:27 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

The US disc is apparently identical with regard to the PQ issues. Also yes, we are missing some extras. there's a visual FX featurette that we dont have and a doco about Judge Dredd and 200 AD that runs for way longer than the poxy one we get on the UK disc.




Youd think it would be the UK disc that would be superior to the US version given that Dredd is a british financed film and a cult hero over here.Oh well, maybe there will be a super special edition somewhere down the line ( hopefully with a better transfer ).

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Post #: 29
RE: DREDD 3D Blu ray picture problems - 10/2/2013 11:55:26 PM   
rich


Posts: 5189
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
The steelbook in France is really nice, we should have got that version.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=7120171&postcount=73

(hit the link under the picture to expand the full gallery)


It also has sharper PQ according to captures taken:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison.php?id=5019

< Message edited by rich -- 11/2/2013 12:00:49 AM >


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