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RE: Another one bites the dust

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RE: Another one bites the dust - 21/1/2013 7:37:57 PM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6170
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
quote:

It'll be a really sad day when you can no longer browse in a large bookshop anymore. I already witnessed and experienced the demise of Borders, so I'm glad I'm no longer with Waterstones because it won't be long.....


I was talking about this with one of our regulars the other day. I love waterstones, and I love browsing the books. I buy far more books than I actually read (I always buy them with every intention of reading them all... but something goes wrong somewhere along the line). But I just love the fact that they have some interesting books that I wouldn't think to buy otherwise, it would be a massive shame if they went.

The big HMV News is that from tomorrow (22nd Jan) we will be accepting gift cards again. All I can say is that it is about time. This is not only fantastic for those customers who have gift cards and haven't been able to use them, but it is great for the staff who will no longer have to answer the same question about gift cards 200 times a day and get verbally assaulted when they reply.

There's also a deal with Hilco in the works so the news is telling us which is a step in the right direction. Work tomorrow will probably be a lot busier, but also a lot more pleasant.

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Post #: 121
RE: Another one bites the dust - 21/1/2013 8:19:10 PM   
Larry of Arabia


Posts: 7366
Joined: 28/2/2007
From: Turtle Island
 Was just walking back from the cinema tonight and saw that my local indie record shop that I have frequented for many a year is having a closing down sale.

I'm not sure there was actually any other dedicated music sellers other than them and HMV in the city, so I guess it's Amazon or iTunes from now on.

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Post #: 122
RE: Another one bites the dust - 21/1/2013 8:59:26 PM   
Harley Quinn


Posts: 5767
Joined: 23/1/2008
From: Arkham
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

quote:

It'll be a really sad day when you can no longer browse in a large bookshop anymore. I already witnessed and experienced the demise of Borders, so I'm glad I'm no longer with Waterstones because it won't be long.....


I was talking about this with one of our regulars the other day. I love waterstones, and I love browsing the books. I buy far more books than I actually read (I always buy them with every intention of reading them all... but something goes wrong somewhere along the line). But I just love the fact that they have some interesting books that I wouldn't think to buy otherwise, it would be a massive shame if they went.

The big HMV News is that from tomorrow (22nd Jan) we will be accepting gift cards again. All I can say is that it is about time. This is not only fantastic for those customers who have gift cards and haven't been able to use them, but it is great for the staff who will no longer have to answer the same question about gift cards 200 times a day and get verbally assaulted when they reply.

There's also a deal with Hilco in the works so the news is telling us which is a step in the right direction. Work tomorrow will probably be a lot busier, but also a lot more pleasant.


There's something definitely going on with Waterstones I was in my local one just after Christmas and the whole genre of books I wanted to browse were on top on the racks so I couldn't get to them. When I asked about it I was told well tell us what you want and we'll get it down for you. Errmm no I wanted to browse I had a book or two in mind but wanted to see what else was around.

I ended up spending a LOT less than I normally would have if I could of browsed.


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Post #: 123
RE: Another one bites the dust - 21/1/2013 11:00:28 PM   
Sway


Posts: 8878
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Albuquerque
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

quote:

It'll be a really sad day when you can no longer browse in a large bookshop anymore. I already witnessed and experienced the demise of Borders, so I'm glad I'm no longer with Waterstones because it won't be long.....


I was talking about this with one of our regulars the other day. I love waterstones, and I love browsing the books. I buy far more books than I actually read (I always buy them with every intention of reading them all... but something goes wrong somewhere along the line). But I just love the fact that they have some interesting books that I wouldn't think to buy otherwise, it would be a massive shame if they went.

The big HMV News is that from tomorrow (22nd Jan) we will be accepting gift cards again. All I can say is that it is about time. This is not only fantastic for those customers who have gift cards and haven't been able to use them, but it is great for the staff who will no longer have to answer the same question about gift cards 200 times a day and get verbally assaulted when they reply.

There's also a deal with Hilco in the works so the news is telling us which is a step in the right direction. Work tomorrow will probably be a lot busier, but also a lot more pleasant.


Oh I'm the same. I absolutely love browsing and buying new books, despite the fact I have dozens that have yet to be read because I keep buying new ones. I've got books I got at Borders that I've still not got round to reading - and I worked there 2008/2009! I'm constantly in the middle of reading a book, and despite having shelves full of unread books, I can't help buying new ones. I get so excited about the promise of a new story. Although mine are about 95% history, 5% mountaineering/climbing, so I don't mean story in the fictional sense.

Anyway, that sounds like very promising news there moon? We certainly never got to reverse our gift card policy (we never stopped accepting them completely, we had some weird policy where we could accept half the money that was available on the card), so that sounds like a positive step. I think Hilco tried to help Borders, and were involved before we went bust.

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Post #: 124
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 12:31:11 PM   
DancingClown


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From: The Lot
 Well, it's official. Good news?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21141209

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Post #: 125
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 1:30:42 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4173
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon
The big HMV News is that from tomorrow (22nd Jan) we will be accepting gift cards again. All I can say is that it is about time. This is not only fantastic for those customers who have gift cards and haven't been able to use them, but it is great for the staff who will no longer have to answer the same question about gift cards 200 times a day and get verbally assaulted when they reply.


moon - on the above subject, has anyone raised the issue of people who have binned their gift cards after believing (nay, being told) they were worthless? I presume, as it was originally Deloitte's decision to refuse them, that it would have to be taken up with them and not in store?


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Post #: 126
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 1:53:04 PM   
elab49


Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005
You'd hope not many would - it was widely reported from the start that this was likely a temporary thing. 

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Post #: 127
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 1:55:26 PM   
Sway


Posts: 8878
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Albuquerque
quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Well, it's official. Good news?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21141209


I don't want to be a total party pooper, but Hilco tried to help Borders and it was eventually them that put Borders into administration.

So hopefully they actually help HMV or pass it on to someone that can.

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Post #: 128
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 1:59:46 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4173
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
You'd hope not many would - it was widely reported from the start that this was likely a temporary thing. 


Yeah, I know - I'm just playing devil's really, but knowing what most of the general public are like...

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Post #: 129
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 3:14:59 PM   
elab49


Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sway


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Well, it's official. Good news?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21141209


I don't want to be a total party pooper, but Hilco tried to help Borders and it was eventually them that put Borders into administration.

So hopefully they actually help HMV or pass it on to someone that can.


I think the positive here is that they seem to already run HMV Canada - so can run HMV and retain existing relationships, so it's not as distant a relationship as it might have been with Borders?


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Post #: 130
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 8:39:21 PM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6170
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
quote:

ORIGINAL: great_badir

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
You'd hope not many would - it was widely reported from the start that this was likely a temporary thing. 


Yeah, I know - I'm just playing devil's really, but knowing what most of the general public are like...



When we weren't accepting them we did have a few people state that they were just going to throw them away. Every single customer we urged them (quite strongly sometimes) to keep hold of them and keep watching the news in case things changed. However there were those who basically told us that we were only saying that to stop them from stealing and that we would be gone in a week and we were trying to con them. So far nobody has come in claiming that they have binned their card. I think if anyone did we would simply have to say to them that that was their choice, that there was nothing we could do, and luckily if they then walked out the store with something them we could call the police as that would 100% be theft (The police came to the conclusion with us locally that if someone left a gift card and walked out with stock that it was a civil offence and so they couldn't do anything. I don't fully understand why...)

Today was a lot better day, everyone felt a little more at ease and there was no trouble, can't ask for much more really, oh and it was busy with people spending their gift cards... myself included.

As for this Hilco stuff, we don't know much about it. We knew it had happened because customers told us and we then looked it up on the BBC news website, as of close of business today there were no emails from head office, no calls from our regional managers, nothing. One of the head office guys came in and he hadn't officially been told anything either, so it's not just the stores they are keeping in the dark. If it wasn't for the news reports we wouldn't even know this deal was taking place. So the specifics are left up to speculation, though we all feel that this is a positive step, and whilst there will certainly be store closures (I don't see how there can't be in order to survive) it looks like the company as a whole will survive, which is always a good thing even if some will probably lose their jobs.

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Post #: 131
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 9:29:40 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 16711
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon


When we weren't accepting them we did have a few people state that they were just going to throw them away. Every single customer we urged them (quite strongly sometimes) to keep hold of them and keep watching the news in case things changed. However there were those who basically told us that we were only saying that to stop them from stealing and that we would be gone in a week and we were trying to con them. So far nobody has come in claiming that they have binned their card. I think if anyone did we would simply have to say to them that that was their choice, that there was nothing we could do, and luckily if they then walked out the store with something them we could call the police as that would 100% be theft (The police came to the conclusion with us locally that if someone left a gift card and walked out with stock that it was a civil offence and so they couldn't do anything. I don't fully understand why...)





It gets very confusing and some things which you would not think were civil offences actually are and the police do not want anything to do with it. I think it relates to the card having been paid for and it would be down to the company or administrator to prove in a court that that the value of that payment has ceased to exist whilst if they walked out and did not leave some proof that money had been paid then it would have been theft. Not well explained but I don't really get involved very much with civil stuff because it is a nightmare.

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Post #: 132
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 9:35:34 PM   
elab49


Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005
Isn't it more the equivalent of paying the money in one shop then taking goods to that value in the shop next door? It's still shoplifting, a criminal offence. The people who 'own' the shop at that point aren't HMV anymore. It might make like for the police easier, but I don't think they're right. 

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Post #: 133
RE: Another one bites the dust - 22/1/2013 10:03:14 PM   
Darth Marenghi


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

However there were those who basically told us that we were only saying that to stop them from stealing and that we would be gone in a week and we were trying to con them.



I don't know how you have the patience to deal with clowns like these, Moon!

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Post #: 134
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 9:24:22 AM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6170
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
quote:

ORIGINAL: sanchia


quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon


When we weren't accepting them we did have a few people state that they were just going to throw them away. Every single customer we urged them (quite strongly sometimes) to keep hold of them and keep watching the news in case things changed. However there were those who basically told us that we were only saying that to stop them from stealing and that we would be gone in a week and we were trying to con them. So far nobody has come in claiming that they have binned their card. I think if anyone did we would simply have to say to them that that was their choice, that there was nothing we could do, and luckily if they then walked out the store with something them we could call the police as that would 100% be theft (The police came to the conclusion with us locally that if someone left a gift card and walked out with stock that it was a civil offence and so they couldn't do anything. I don't fully understand why...)





It gets very confusing and some things which you would not think were civil offences actually are and the police do not want anything to do with it. I think it relates to the card having been paid for and it would be down to the company or administrator to prove in a court that that the value of that payment has ceased to exist whilst if they walked out and did not leave some proof that money had been paid then it would have been theft. Not well explained but I don't really get involved very much with civil stuff because it is a nightmare.



It was confusing for us because whilst our local police force were saying it was a civil offence, other stores had been told that it was a criminal offence so none of us really knew where we stood. LIke I've said before, the polce round our way are real;ly good, supportive and helpful when they can be, but their hands were tied on the matter by their bosses in the same way our were by their bosses.

Just out of interest, anyone who's been through this before, does it tend to be the small or large shops which go first? Obviously the larger shops make more money, but also have more attractive real estate for potential buyers which could be a great way to get some cash flow in the short term.

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Post #: 135
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 10:42:37 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005
INterestingly I noted that Fopp were taking advance orders for Skyfall (they even had a hand-written notice in the shop). But the HMV website is gone so I'm assuming my pre-order on that is as well.

Are the stores taking pre-orders Moon?


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Post #: 136
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 11:08:48 AM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6170
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
quote:

Are the stores taking pre-orders Moon?


We've had no official word either way to be honest with you. Like I say, officially we haven't even been told about the deal with Hilco. A customer yesterday asked if he could preorder something with us, my response to him was that we could, but with things as they are, we couldn't actually guarantee that it would come in. We wouldn't take a deposit and we should know the week before whether we were actually going to get it, so it was up to him whether he wanted to give us a shot or order it somewhere else and guarantee a copy.

Hopefully with this deal being backed by our suppliers we will start receiving stock again soon, and hopefully that will mean new releases as that is what people want, especially a title like Skyfall which would bring in a lot of cash flow. I'll let you know if they tell us more.

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Post #: 137
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 11:25:39 AM   
Sexual Harassment Panda


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I'm sure it's standard process, but I really don't get this Hilco situation.

They've bought out HMVs debt to take control of the company, but they don't actually own or officially control the company? Can they still go to another buyer, or is it a case of there's still some legal paths that need to be tread before they can officially own the company?

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Post #: 138
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 11:42:05 AM   
Dpp1978


Posts: 1010
Joined: 2/4/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sexual Harassment Panda

I'm sure it's standard process, but I really don't get this Hilco situation.

They've bought out HMVs debt to take control of the company, but they don't actually own or officially control the company? Can they still go to another buyer, or is it a case of there's still some legal paths that need to be tread before they can officially own the company?


They don't need to own the company to control it, or to make money from it.

The control comes from the fact they hold the debt. They can force the company into administration or receivership at any time. They will not do this as long as the company does as it's told.

They bought the debt at below market value; creditors will often take less than they are owed rather than risk losing everything if the company folds completely. Hilco are still owed the full amount, so even if they have no stake in the ownership the least they will make should they turn things around is the difference between what they paid and what they are owed.

The actual relationship will be much more complicated, and this is a massive simplification of what is really going on, but I hope it removes some of the confusion.

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Post #: 139
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 12:34:38 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 19969
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 There was some sort of notice taped to the till desk at the Fopp here, basically saying they don't seem to know anything , but call such or such a number or something.

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Post #: 140
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 12:59:56 PM   
elab49


Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005
To back up previous comments about the impact of HMV (and Play and others going under) on companies releasing films - Third Window are having to move their release schedule around this year and seem to be in quite a worrying position with Amazon the only real outlet left for smaller imprints like them that are releasing films that it's unlikely we'd have access to any other way (I've got pretty much everything they've released). This on top of the Sony fire just over a year ago (which also was a massive hit on these small imprints) could see serious knock on effects in terms of jobs.

Interestingly, they also refer to the Jersey loophole being closed. I'm not sure how significantly that would impact on them or HMV given most sales would still be under the lower £15 limit.


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Post #: 141
RE: Another one bites the dust - 23/1/2013 2:29:01 PM   
elab49


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http://www.cueentertainment.com/suppliers-scorn-deloitte-offer-as-hilco-moves-in/

Tweeted by Third Window. Something along the lines of the stock offer being 'spit of the coffee' low.


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Post #: 142
RE: Another one bites the dust - 24/1/2013 8:00:31 PM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6170
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham
 Had word today that we should be receiving audio new releases next week, Mick Hucknall, Fleetwood Mac and most significantly Biffy Clyro, so that is another good step forward.

Hopefully DVD/Blu Ray releases will be following soon, not just for the big titles like Skyfall/Taken 2, but also because I really want the Kubrick release of Fear & Desire, also we could really do with some fresh stock, there's only so much Back Catalogue people are going to want before they give up on us.

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Post #: 143
RE: Another one bites the dust - 28/1/2013 10:22:59 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 5789
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how the hmv crisis might affect the film industry-


http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2013/jan/25/hmv-british-indie-cinema?intcmp=ILCMUSTXT9390

hoped hmv would see sense with the end of january sales and just cut most dvds/BDs to half price but has not happened.

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Post #: 144
RE: Another one bites the dust - 28/1/2013 10:30:47 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005
HMV isn't actually HMV anymore - the administrators are looking to pass on the business as a going concern so handing the stock out for zilch would be a pretty silly thing to do.

I'd hope that general pricing policy and strategy would be looked at.

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Post #: 145
RE: Another one bites the dust - 28/1/2013 10:52:22 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 6220
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From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon

Had word today that we should be receiving audio new releases next week, Mick Hucknall, Fleetwood Mac and most significantly Biffy Clyro, so that is another good step forward.

Hopefully DVD/Blu Ray releases will be following soon, not just for the big titles like Skyfall/Taken 2, but also because I really want the Kubrick release of Fear & Desire, also we could really do with some fresh stock, there's only so much Back Catalogue people are going to want before they give up on us.


That's just adding insult to injury.

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Post #: 146
RE: Another one bites the dust - 4/2/2013 2:06:10 PM   
AxlReznor

 

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 Looks like they're about to announce the closure of 100 stores... http://go.ign.com/14LBaGC

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Post #: 147
RE: Another one bites the dust - 4/2/2013 2:30:07 PM   
elab49


Posts: 51612
Joined: 1/10/2005
Fopp was looking worryingly sparse today.

Also, the blue cross thing has spread across everything, even all the normal stock seems to have every 2nd one tagged. And not at uplifts - the BFi duals, which were £9 in fopp anyway, have got the X at that price.

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Post #: 148
RE: Another one bites the dust - 7/2/2013 3:23:15 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 12879
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 66 stores to go. The list of which ones is here - http://www.computerandvideogames.com/389802/hmv-store-closures-the-full-list/?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-News-RSS

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RE: Another one bites the dust - 7/2/2013 4:14:26 PM   
Shifty Bench


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I didn't know there were as many in Glasgow. The ones on Argyle Street and Buchanan Street aren't listed and those are the two I'd visit if I'm ever in the city. Such a shame so many people are losing their jobs.

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