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RE: Another one bites the dust

 
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RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 3:59:39 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7993
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
I got some vouchers for Christmas as well but thankfully I've already used them. The wife and I always go sales shopping on Dec 27th and while she's clothes shopping with her vouchers off my mum I'm in HMV with the vouchers off her mum. It was literally the only time of the year I entered the shop as we've never had one in town so the nearest one to me has always been a half hour bus journey away.

It's a shame for the staff, being turfed out onto a very difficult job market but to be honest I'm still a little bit in awe that they managesd to hold out for so long. Hadn't they been on the verge of folding for about 6 years or so?

Anyway, if anything is to be learnt from this it's don't give anyone vouchers for a High Street shop for Christmas I guess. Sad times .

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Post #: 31
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 4:05:47 PM   
paulyboy


Posts: 2556
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle

Anyway, if anything is to be learnt from this it's don't give anyone vouchers for a High Street shop for Christmas I guess. Sad times .



I know someone who was stockpiling Jessops vouchers (as Christmas and birthday gifts) to the tune of 500 with the hope of purchasing a camera she had been saving for, needless to say she's buggered!

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Post #: 32
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 4:16:58 PM   
great_badir


Posts: 4662
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: A breaking rope bridge in the middle of the jungle
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harry Tuttle
Hadn't they been on the verge of folding for about 6 years or so?


As I said on the previous page, some individual stores were in trouble as far back as 2006, with the company as a whole, at the time unofficially but latterly confirmed, in trouble since 2007 with nearly every single store running at a loss - for the last 4 years at least I've been hearing "if we do badly this christmas, that's it", and it would seem christmas 2012 was the final nail.

Like you, I'm amazed they managed to hold out for this long, but the changes they did make (scaling down blu rays sold in stores and giving that floor space back to increased DVD and video games selections, selling high end portable audio equipment, introducing a pre-owned section etc etc) probably helped them a bit, as did selling off their concert venues and closing some stores where they had more than one in relatively close proximity, which would have saved a lot in rent and the like. But, really, they are more a victim of Amazon's and online merchants increasing businesses more than they are a direct victim of the general recession.

Again, I feel sorry for the staff and the job loss is probably a tougher bullet than HMV going.

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Post #: 33
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 4:19:38 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
It really pisses me off when the first thing these stores do when they go into administration is stop accepting gift vouchers. You already have the money! It really amounts to theft.

(in reply to great_badir)
Post #: 34
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 4:20:19 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2902
Joined: 6/10/2005
I don't often go into my town center because it's dominated by clothes shops. Why would I want to go into town center to buy a DVD from HMV when I can get the same DVD in a grocery store a ten minute drive away. At the moment there is a lack of incentive for me to go into town and browse. If there is a variety of shops selling gadgets, films, decent cinema, electronic goods etc then I would spend more time in town center.

I think the problem is to many shops are spread out throughout towns and cities. I think consumers would rather have all their shops in one area or expecting the supermarkets to have a certain product like a sink plug.



< Message edited by Ghidorah -- 15/1/2013 4:23:28 PM >

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Post #: 35
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 4:22:33 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
My experience of DVD's in grocery stores is you get some chart DVD and Blu-Rays, and then some shitty Syfy Channel bargain bin crap on DVD, and that's about it. If I want something older, but of a decent quality, you have to go to HMV (or shop online, obviously).

(in reply to Ghidorah)
Post #: 36
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 4:29:55 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
Joined: 1/10/2005
Well, it's less likely you're going to get anything other than new releases or big hits in your supermarket, let alone back catalogue. They generally don't even have new release independent or foreign language films, unless there's some kind of market crossover. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to Ghidorah)
Post #: 37
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 4:46:27 PM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2902
Joined: 6/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Well, it's less likely you're going to get anything other than new releases or big hits in your supermarket, let alone back catalogue. They generally don't even have new release independent or foreign language films, unless there's some kind of market crossover.



The point I'm making there is little incentive to go into my town center other than to buy clothes. The lack of variety of goods in town centers and the domination of local supermarkets is the reason why Woolworths. Comet, HMV etc are disappearing. However there is a greater problem of a knock on effect to electronic companies, film companies etc. Due to the disapearance of key high street shops access to independent films, electronic goods etc is going to heavily restricted and will cost these companies sales. At the moment consumers in supermarkets happily buy tacky electronic goods than shop around.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 38
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 5:04:08 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
Joined: 1/10/2005
I guess it depends which towns. There are still plenty of shops in Glasgow and not a clothes takeover, e.g. And Leeds had a decent centre for shopping.

ALthough I just realised today that the HMV in Sauchiehall St is now a That's Entertainment - and there's another one of those where Tower used to be with a CEX opposite Fopp.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

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Post #: 39
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 6:23:18 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10198
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

Well, it's less likely you're going to get anything other than new releases or big hits in your supermarket

Do supermarkets still sell these as loss leaders, ie they sell them at a loss because it brings in customers who will buy alcohol / other shopping that will more than make their money back?

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 40
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 6:33:09 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
Joined: 1/10/2005
Maybe for the odd big release you'll get one cheap with shopping I think. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to Professor Moriarty)
Post #: 41
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 7:37:05 PM   
Jackie Boy

 

Posts: 1135
Joined: 2/1/2006
In the last year & a half nearly a third of all my local high street stores have closed. M&S, Blockbuster, Tiso, WHSmith, FCUK, Jessops, JJB, Laser, Comet, Clinton Cards, Game & last but by no means least HMV. Hell even the local Ford & Vauxhall dealerships have closed their doors for business. The local postie's gone, the Doctor's clinic is at risk & so is the local pharmacy. I just can't get my head around it all, where & when is it all going to end?

< Message edited by Jackie Boy -- 15/1/2013 7:38:35 PM >


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Post #: 42
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 8:48:57 PM   
Super Hans


Posts: 2388
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Watford
Sad day. I hope they get rescued and do something to attempt to adapt more (unless it's too late?) so that they can survive in some shape or form.

I've not been too fussed about most of these high street chains going bust/into administration, but if HMV goes then for a lot of towns not fortunate to have much in the way of independent alternatives, it's farewell to the music & video shop. Leaves us with...

- Amazon: Very practical and well priced, but not exactly a tactile shopping pleasure...

- Supermarkets: Cheap-ish prices but naff all variety. Seriously unpleasant companies.

- Trade in only shops (CEX and the like): I swear some people seem to use their media discs to sand down their skirting boards....

I'm seriously hoping Waterstones don't die completely as that would be the final nail in the average high street coffin as far as I'm concerned. As much as go for the ebooks sometimes, I hadn't entirely given up on physical media just yet! The Waterstones near us Watford has gone now though so not a good sign.

Thought I'd better cash in my HMV Pure points for the 5 store credit they are worth, shall go along Thursday evening and see if they're accepting them. Doubtful by the sounds of it, but I'll probably still go for what could be one last little spend.

Feel sorry for all the staff both at this difficult, uncertain time and if they end up shutting up shop altogether. Always found them to be decent!

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Post #: 43
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 11:01:53 PM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6321
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham

quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty


quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Sorry Moon

With the news that gift vouchers are going to be void I can only hope customers will try and look past this and realise that 4000 people are probably going to lose their jobs.


I'd be pretty pissed if I'd bought a voucher for someone, or been given one for X-mas. I know its not the fault of the staff and their attitude would quite rightly be "why do I give a stuff about your voucher, I'm out of a job", but it still feels a bit like robbery to me. You took my money and didn't give me the value of the goods in exchange. If I had one I'd be picking up whatever I wanted from the store of the voucher value and then leaving the vouchers at the counter and walking out.



Someone did just this today, and it is my job to deal with people like this in the store. So after much pleading with the customer not to do something he would regret he snatched the goods out of the guy serving him's hand, threw his gift card on the floor and marched out of the shop. I radioed in the police, but before they arrived he came back to the store, had another confrontation with me and threw the goods at my feet and snatched his gift card back off me. The police had a chat with him, but as far as I was concerned we had the goods back so it went no further.

I understand the frustration of not being able to spend your gift vouchers. It seems wrong to me that this is the case, and yet the staff are not lying to you when they say there is nothing they can do. We are powerless. Some of the staff at my store have gift vouchers we cannot use either, myself included. It's a really shitty situation that I would do anything to get out of. Things customers need to understand is that the staff selling them the gift cards were not aware we would be going into administration. We were given no heads up, no warning, we learned everything from the news last night, and that includes store managers and we even suspect our regional manager.

We don't know what will happen and have been urging our customers to keep hold of their vouchers in the hope that we pull through. If we do then hopefully we can start accepting vouchers again, if not then I know you can lodge a claim with the administrators, though I realise this doesn't always yield results.

In our store the first two hours were hell, we received a lot of abuse from angry customers who I can honestly say we genuinely empathise with, but there is no need to become rude and aggressive with us. The rest of the day was odd though, we had a lot of people coming in and wishing us well. It was very nice, but also really felt like the end.

The thing that I find shocking is the lack of communication from up on high. First thing we did this morning was get all the staff together and compile a list of questions that we had about administration, these ranged from whether we would get paid on time, what can we do about warranties on products for customers, can we use a customers deposit on one item against another item so we're not technically giving them a refund but they don't lose out and so forth. Our manager went on a conference call armed with a list of questions that would have helped us do our job and helped put customers at ease. Yet the call was simply a sit and listen call, no managers were given an opportunity to ask anything and to be quite honest we are still trying to work out the answers to many of the questions we had.

Even if I did not work for HMV I would feel sad for its passing. Yes it was a terrible move to go into technology and fashion when they should have been concentrating on a strong diverse back catalogue for our core customers, and yes we could have done with taking a leaf out of Fopp's book and worked with smaller distributors to get great deals on interesting titles (I love going into Fopp and finding all their BFI titles are dirt cheap). But despite it's flaws it was still a great place to browse and find some damn decent films and normally good prices. I know some of the prices are outrageous. Believe me when I say the staff are as shocked at some of the prices as you are, but usually these titles end up being sent to us in a campaign at some point to rectify it.

I can only hope that the strong support we received from customers today, whether it was panic buying or genuine support, continues and it inspires a millionaire with more money than sense to invest in us, not just for my job and others like me, but because seeing HMV go would be a crying shame. I don't enjoy online shopping, regardless of how cheap it is, I would rather pay more and browse the racks, and that has been my attitude for a few years now.

Anyway. It's been a tough long day and this is an issue obviously close to my heart so I don't know if what I am saying makes much sense.

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Post #: 44
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 11:21:16 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8204
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty


quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Sorry Moon

With the news that gift vouchers are going to be void I can only hope customers will try and look past this and realise that 4000 people are probably going to lose their jobs.


I'd be pretty pissed if I'd bought a voucher for someone, or been given one for X-mas. I know its not the fault of the staff and their attitude would quite rightly be "why do I give a stuff about your voucher, I'm out of a job", but it still feels a bit like robbery to me. You took my money and didn't give me the value of the goods in exchange. If I had one I'd be picking up whatever I wanted from the store of the voucher value and then leaving the vouchers at the counter and walking out.



Someone did just this today, and it is my job to deal with people like this in the store. So after much pleading with the customer not to do something he would regret he snatched the goods out of the guy serving him's hand, threw his gift card on the floor and marched out of the shop. I radioed in the police, but before they arrived he came back to the store, had another confrontation with me and threw the goods at my feet and snatched his gift card back off me. The police had a chat with him, but as far as I was concerned we had the goods back so it went no further.


I can completely understand and empathise with someone's frustration at that situation too, especially if they'd asked for vouchers or something for Christmas so maybe stood to lose a lot of money's worth. It would piss me off, that's for sure. However, I cannot understand someone giving dogs abuse over it to a guy or girl in a shop just trying to do their job under incredibly difficult circumstances. Anyone who does that is a flat-out stone-hearted cunt in my opinion.

(in reply to moontheloon)
Post #: 45
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 11:34:05 PM   
Brooksy84


Posts: 457
Joined: 25/1/2010
Having worked in retail, sales and hospitality, it's my experience that more often than not the customer is a snidey pompous cunt with an air of entitlement. Most people just love having a moan at shop assistants because they know that all they can really say back is "I'm sorry sir". "Well sorry isn't good enough!" they cry, storing it all up in their superiority wank bank for later. Never mind that some poor sod on minimum wage has had to listen to the same shit 30 times already today, oh know, you've got things to say and you're jolly well going to be heard! Tossers.

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Post #: 46
RE: Another one bites the dust - 15/1/2013 11:50:09 PM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

Having worked in retail, sales and hospitality, it's my experience that more often than not the customer is a snidey pompous cunt with an air of entitlement.


But if a customer is paying for something surely they *are* entitled to something?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brooksy84

Most people just love having a moan at shop assistants because they know that all they can really say back is "I'm sorry sir". "Well sorry isn't good enough!" they cry, storing it all up in their superiority wank bank for later. Never mind that some poor sod on minimum wage has had to listen to the same shit 30 times already today, oh know, you've got things to say and you're jolly well going to be heard! Tossers.


This seems like a slightly odd over-generalisation. Have you thought about working in a none-customer facing industry? It doesn't seem to be your thing.

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Post #: 47
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 12:03:06 AM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
The refusal to honor to gift vouchers seems a bit strange to me. That basically amounts to theft, no?

I don't see what difference not honoring gift vouchers makes to their situation. But yeah, anyone who goes arse over tit at some poor fucker who is about to lose their job is essentially a dick-hole.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 16/1/2013 12:04:59 AM >


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Post #: 48
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 12:08:33 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat
The refusal to honor to gift vouchers seems a bit strange to me. That basically amounts to theft, no?


I was under the impression that when an administrator steps in the actual ownership of the store goes in to a kind of limbo, so the question as to who honours the vouchers etc becomes an issue. I'm sure Elab or someone will be able to explain it properly.

< Message edited by adambatman82 -- 16/1/2013 12:09:20 AM >

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 49
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 12:12:56 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
Joined: 1/10/2005
Essentially. If there was a protection over the funds covering them eg or the goods (eg the legal changes for furniture stores that kept going post) it might be different. But, for the moment, you're just an unsecured creditor.

But the reports seem to be quite positive that this is only for just now while the administrators take a look around and it's more likely you'd see them honoured here than eg when Currys went bust. There was an interesting piece by Robert Peston as well suggesting that the record companies and DVD releasers had an interest in keeping some form of high street presence so everyone seems pretty confident that HMV will continue to exist in some form.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 16/1/2013 12:14:23 AM >


_____________________________

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to adambatman82)
Post #: 50
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 12:19:17 AM   
adambatman82

 

Posts: 11156
Joined: 15/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49
There was an interesting piece by Robert Peston as well suggesting that the record companies and DVD releasers had an interest in keeping some form of high street presence so everyone seems pretty confident that HMV will continue to exist in some form.


Over the holidays I met for lunch with a friend who runs an indie record store and voiced my concerns about HMV going (in spite of having a vested interest, he's still a big DVD buyer, and for that reason likes HMV), and he was adamant that the labels wouldn't let it go completely. I think it's quite easy to underestimate just how important it is to the big labels still, but it's clear that the current model is just too big to remain afloat. Scaled down stores in the major cities is what I expect to come of this.

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Post #: 51
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 6:23:34 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10198
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty


quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Sorry Moon

With the news that gift vouchers are going to be void I can only hope customers will try and look past this and realise that 4000 people are probably going to lose their jobs.


I'd be pretty pissed if I'd bought a voucher for someone, or been given one for X-mas. I know its not the fault of the staff and their attitude would quite rightly be "why do I give a stuff about your voucher, I'm out of a job", but it still feels a bit like robbery to me. You took my money and didn't give me the value of the goods in exchange. If I had one I'd be picking up whatever I wanted from the store of the voucher value and then leaving the vouchers at the counter and walking out.



Someone did just this today, and it is my job to deal with people like this in the store. So after much pleading with the customer not to do something he would regret he snatched the goods out of the guy serving him's hand, threw his gift card on the floor and marched out of the shop. I radioed in the police, but before they arrived he came back to the store, had another confrontation with me and threw the goods at my feet and snatched his gift card back off me. The police had a chat with him, but as far as I was concerned we had the goods back so it went no further.


I can completely understand and empathise with someone's frustration at that situation too, especially if they'd asked for vouchers or something for Christmas so maybe stood to lose a lot of money's worth. It would piss me off, that's for sure. However, I cannot understand someone giving dogs abuse over it to a guy or girl in a shop just trying to do their job under incredibly difficult circumstances. Anyone who does that is a flat-out stone-hearted cunt in my opinion.


I completely agree that it's twatish to hurl abuse at someone who has no authority to do anything and is losing their job. But calling the police to report a theft by someone who's already paid for something is also pretty low in my opinion. Just my unpopular two cents.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 52
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 6:49:35 AM   
moontheloon


Posts: 6321
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Birmingham

quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty


quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

quote:

ORIGINAL: moontheloon


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty


quote:

ORIGINAL: James2183

Sorry Moon

With the news that gift vouchers are going to be void I can only hope customers will try and look past this and realise that 4000 people are probably going to lose their jobs.


I'd be pretty pissed if I'd bought a voucher for someone, or been given one for X-mas. I know its not the fault of the staff and their attitude would quite rightly be "why do I give a stuff about your voucher, I'm out of a job", but it still feels a bit like robbery to me. You took my money and didn't give me the value of the goods in exchange. If I had one I'd be picking up whatever I wanted from the store of the voucher value and then leaving the vouchers at the counter and walking out.



Someone did just this today, and it is my job to deal with people like this in the store. So after much pleading with the customer not to do something he would regret he snatched the goods out of the guy serving him's hand, threw his gift card on the floor and marched out of the shop. I radioed in the police, but before they arrived he came back to the store, had another confrontation with me and threw the goods at my feet and snatched his gift card back off me. The police had a chat with him, but as far as I was concerned we had the goods back so it went no further.


I can completely understand and empathise with someone's frustration at that situation too, especially if they'd asked for vouchers or something for Christmas so maybe stood to lose a lot of money's worth. It would piss me off, that's for sure. However, I cannot understand someone giving dogs abuse over it to a guy or girl in a shop just trying to do their job under incredibly difficult circumstances. Anyone who does that is a flat-out stone-hearted cunt in my opinion.


I completely agree that it's twatish to hurl abuse at someone who has no authority to do anything and is losing their job. But calling the police to report a theft by someone who's already paid for something is also pretty low in my opinion. Just my unpopular two cents.




It may seem low, but that's my job. No charges were pressed and the gentleman got into no trouble. The police where I work are very reasonable and helpful to both us and the customers. If the gentleman walked out with goods then that is theft. It may seem like not accepting gift cards appears like theft, but that's our administrators rather than us. It's my responsibility to make sure that our stock levels are good and correct, and if we let customers walk out with goods like that then our shop would lose money and we simply wouldn't know what we had in stock and did not.

Like I say, I am entirely empathetic toward customers who feel cheated by the situation, I don't think it is remotely fair or right, but it's my job to stop people doing things like this and it is only as a last resort that we call the police in on matters like this, we would much rather try and reason with customers in matters like this. It's upsetting to staff and presumably customers too when things get out of hand. And when you've got someone shouting at you that you're a thief and a liar who is stealing money from their children and should be ashamed, when really you personally have done nothing wrong then yes, you call in help.

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Post #: 53
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 9:12:20 AM   
Chief


Posts: 7766
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Banshee
If gift cards are bought by credit/debit cards, can they be refunded onto those cards? Or returned with receipts? Or covered by card insurance?

(in reply to Harry Tuttle)
Post #: 54
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 9:20:17 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8204
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty
I completely agree that it's twatish to hurl abuse at someone who has no authority to do anything and is losing their job. But calling the police to report a theft by someone who's already paid for something is also pretty low in my opinion. Just my unpopular two cents.



Really? You honestly think he shouldn't have done anything? Despite the fact the store is still responsible for the stock (and often watched like hawks by auditors in these situations) and that doing nothing could have lead to every other customer with vouchers following the example by throwing theirs to the ground and walking out with what they wanted? Vouchers are worth as little to the individual shop in these situations as the customer, all that guy was doing was behaving like selfish boor by mouthing off and trying to steal from a shop that has no power to accommodate him thanks to Deloitte (who should be the real target for his ire). There's still a chance that HMV will continue to exist (the record companies will be doing a lot to make sure there is still a presence on the High Street since I bet they're shitting it right now too) so it's not as if the vouchers are complete junk at this time either.

(in reply to Professor Moriarty)
Post #: 55
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 9:39:50 AM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10198
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty
I completely agree that it's twatish to hurl abuse at someone who has no authority to do anything and is losing their job. But calling the police to report a theft by someone who's already paid for something is also pretty low in my opinion. Just my unpopular two cents.



Really? You honestly think he shouldn't have done anything? Despite the fact the store is still responsible for the stock (and often watched like hawks by auditors in these situations) and that doing nothing could have lead to every other customer with vouchers following the example by throwing theirs to the ground and walking out with what they wanted? Vouchers are worth as little to the individual shop in these situations as the customer, all that guy was doing was behaving like selfish boor by mouthing off and trying to steal from a shop that has no power to accommodate him thanks to Deloitte (who should be the real target for his ire). There's still a chance that HMV will continue to exist (the record companies will be doing a lot to make sure there is still a presence on the High Street since I bet they're shitting it right now too) so it's not as if the vouchers are complete junk at this time either.



In my own moral code I don't think I could do a job that involves me calling the police to ask them to arrest someone for taking something they've already paid for. And whatever the receivers and HMV have decided that's clearly how I see it that HMV is still trading (the doors are open to a shop with HMV over it) and there are outstanding vouchers that have been paid for.

I know this is really easy for me to say as I'm not in the situation that those in HMV or other retail outlets are in, but it just seems so wrong to me to want to criminalize someone for taking what (in my opinion) they have already paid for and therefore they have a right to. If I were put in the position of having to do this job (and god forbid I ever am as I really empathise with someone in it), I'd probably fight against doing it on the grounds that I didn't feel adequately trained for that work.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 56
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 9:49:46 AM   
superdan


Posts: 8204
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Professor Moriarty

I know this is really easy for me to say as I'm not in the situation that those in HMV or other retail outlets are in, but it just seems so wrong to me to want to criminalize someone for taking what (in my opinion) they have already paid for and therefore they have a right to.


I doubt the intention was to criminalise the guy (I'm speculating but had the guy been caught and the police asked Moony if he wanted to press charges I'm guessing he would have said 'no'), it's simply doing your job - the store had not received a payment they were permitted accept (no matter how much I suspect they would have liked to) for the goods. I would have felt compelled to do the same, because if you don't there's every chance it could be the staff who get into bother rather than the customer.

quote:


If I were put in the position of having to do this job (and god forbid I ever am as I really empathise with someone in it), I'd probably fight against doing it on the grounds that I didn't feel adequately trained for that work


A sentiment anyone who's been in such a situation can appreciate I think. It's one of the things that makes working under that cloud so horrid.

(in reply to Professor Moriarty)
Post #: 57
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 9:51:33 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

If gift cards are bought by credit/debit cards, can they be refunded onto those cards? Or returned with receipts? Or covered by card insurance?


Read a thing about it on Yahoo that said this

quote:


Q. What do I do with the voucher I received for Christmas?

A. HMV will no longer be honouring vouchers. However, the person who bought the voucher might be able to claim the money back from their debit or credit card issuer using either Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act or the Chargeback scheme.

Section 75 will cover you if you bought something for more than 100 (up to a limit of 30,000) using your credit card. This is because your credit card provider will be jointly liable - together with the retailer - if anything goes wrong and will reimburse you the cost of the purchase. If the value is under 100, it's still worth contacting the provider as it might still reimburse you.

The Chargeback scheme works in a similar way and although it is not law (like Section 75) for providers to adhere to most do so. The scheme also covers debit cards and allows card issuers to reverse a transaction if there's a problem with something you've bought.

Claims must be addressed to your card provider within 120 days of finding out there's a problem. The card provider will then pass on a claim to the merchant's bank but there is no guarantee the claim will be successful.

If the voucher was purchased with cash or cheques there is no protection and the buyer should contact the administrator to make a claim.

Jessops is in a similar situation. However, administrators can change their mind and decide to honour voucher payments, as Deloitte did when dealing with electrical goods giant Comet when it went bust last year. Gennaro Castaldo, head of press and PR for the HMV Group, says customers should hang on and wait for further confirmation.

Q. I've pre-ordered something from HMV will I get my money back?

A. Register with the administrator but your claim will be at the back of the line behind any debts that need paying off. Deloitte is expected to deal with HMV, while Pricewaterhouse Coopers is handling Jessops.

(in reply to Chief)
Post #: 58
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 9:56:23 AM   
Ghidorah

 

Posts: 2902
Joined: 6/10/2005
I don't believe HMV will disappear from the high street. I also believe many if not much HMV staffs will keep their job. End of the day customers being abusive to staff when the chain is going into administration isn't something new. What I find offensive is someone think they got the right to shout at a member of staff who could lose their job.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 59
RE: Another one bites the dust - 16/1/2013 10:04:15 AM   
elab49


Posts: 54554
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chief

If gift cards are bought by credit/debit cards, can they be refunded onto those cards? Or returned with receipts? Or covered by card insurance?


Read a thing about it on Yahoo that said this

quote:


Q. What do I do with the voucher I received for Christmas?

A. HMV will no longer be honouring vouchers. However, the person who bought the voucher might be able to claim the money back from their debit or credit card issuer using either Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act or the Chargeback scheme.

Section 75 will cover you if you bought something for more than 100 (up to a limit of 30,000) using your credit card. This is because your credit card provider will be jointly liable - together with the retailer - if anything goes wrong and will reimburse you the cost of the purchase. If the value is under 100, it's still worth contacting the provider as it might still reimburse you.

The Chargeback scheme works in a similar way and although it is not law (like Section 75) for providers to adhere to most do so. The scheme also covers debit cards and allows card issuers to reverse a transaction if there's a problem with something you've bought.

Claims must be addressed to your card provider within 120 days of finding out there's a problem. The card provider will then pass on a claim to the merchant's bank but there is no guarantee the claim will be successful.

If the voucher was purchased with cash or cheques there is no protection and the buyer should contact the administrator to make a claim.

Jessops is in a similar situation. However, administrators can change their mind and decide to honour voucher payments, as Deloitte did when dealing with electrical goods giant Comet when it went bust last year. Gennaro Castaldo, head of press and PR for the HMV Group, says customers should hang on and wait for further confirmation.

Q. I've pre-ordered something from HMV will I get my money back?

A. Register with the administrator but your claim will be at the back of the line behind any debts that need paying off. Deloitte is expected to deal with HMV, while Pricewaterhouse Coopers is handling Jessops.



The last is an odd query - HMV don't charge for pre-orders until shipment.

I'm not sure it will be entirely easy to go the joint liability route on the credit cards, and it can be a hassle, but good luck if anyone does. I would say it's worth a shot disputing the charge under that section below that amount - I've been successful with that once before when a Canadian DVD place went under.

The problem with taking items is you aren't technically taking something you paid for because of the difference in legal entities between who you paid your cash to and the legal change to who currrently administers the shops and is responsible for the stock. So one entity took your money but you're actually stealing from another. People may sympathise, but you'd still be stealing. But I'd be positive as the now regular message is that the administrators will likely start honouring them at some point.


_____________________________

Lips Together and Blow - blogtasticness and Glasgow Film Festival GFF13!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 60
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