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How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie

 
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How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 7/1/2013 10:15:02 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7064
Joined: 18/11/2006
seems there is a check list for getting it right-


http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/01/06/superhero-delusion/
Post #: 1
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 7/1/2013 9:21:15 PM   
Spiked


Posts: 258
Joined: 27/4/2009
Before I click the list, is CGI x 1000000 listed?

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 2
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 10:23:43 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7064
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiked

Before I click the list, is CGI x 1000000 listed?



maybe but its really about superhero movie characters having to be downbeat, fairly humourless and with issues/baggage.

(in reply to Spiked)
Post #: 3
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 10:26:45 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiked

Before I click the list, is CGI x 1000000 listed?



maybe but its really about superhero movie characters having to be downbeat, fairly humourless and with issues/baggage.


So basically, it's 'how to make a Batman movie', because no one told Marvel.

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 4
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 10:44:11 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4262
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Avengers isn't downbeat or humourless. Shite article.

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Post #: 5
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 10:47:05 AM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5841
Joined: 26/12/2005
quote:

The Avengers is an ensemble action comedy, essentially a superpowered riff on the Love, Actually model, with each spin-off superhero’s character arc mixing together into what amounts to a series of mini-movies.


He lost me after this line, as if the intersection of several plot strands is exemplified by Love Actually.

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RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 10:57:07 AM   
AxlReznor

 

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Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
"Batman has become a cult hero in Dark Knight Rises"... really? By my count there were three characters who weren't aware of Batman's identity and still believed in him. Gordon, Blake and some random orphan kid. Everyone else hated him for murdering their "true" hero.

(in reply to KnightofZyryab)
Post #: 7
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 11:01:52 AM   
KnightofZyryab


Posts: 5841
Joined: 26/12/2005
Had to quote some more of this just to highlight quite how bad this article is.

quote:

And Amazing Spider-Man features the Crane Swing Scene, in which every construction worker in New York teams up with Spider-Man – it’s a vision so ridiculous and sublime and Proletarian that it could have come out of Eisenstein.


The psuedo-insightful ramblings of a Grade A hack.

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Post #: 8
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 11:10:36 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
They also seem to be suggesting that The Dark Knight Rises should have ended by reiterating the exact same point as The Dark Knight (that maybe Batman isn't a good thing, but he may be a necessary evil), instead of ending the trilogy (and Bruce's story arc), not to mention one of the bleakest blockbusters of recent times with a sense of triumph, Bruce achieving what he first set out to do and somehow managing to find some happiness out of it all. I mean if you don't like the ending of The Dark Knight Rises, fine, but if they ended it with the same ambiguity as they ended The Dark Knight there wouldn't have been any point in making it.

(in reply to KnightofZyryab)
Post #: 9
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 11:39:31 AM   
Olaf


Posts: 23709
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My main issue with the article is that it seems to start with an idea and then stretch the films to fit it, rather than analysing the films and coming up with a hypothesis based on that. The problem is that the things he identifies have always been present in mainstream Hollywood filmmaking - the hero plagued by self-doubt, triumphing over adversity and disapproving authority figures, their moral viewpoint is ultimately validated etc etc. (compressed emotional arcs in mainstream action movies, oh noes!). The most baffling thing is when he holds up Dirty Harry as a viable alternative, as if the complete excision of the protagonist's personal development is an improvement on these films' accelerated character developments - it might well be, but not when your article's point is that character arcs need to be more meaningful and fleshed-out.

It's a shame because some of the things he identifies are quite true and troubling undercurrents in these films. If only he had been able to tie them into a longer-running psychology of the American blockbuster instead of trying to paint it as a new phenomenon.

< Message edited by Olaf -- 8/1/2013 11:40:19 AM >


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Post #: 10
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 1:34:45 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Avengers isn't downbeat or humourless. Shite article.

No, but TDKR is!.....just saying...

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Post #: 11
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 1:36:28 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofZyryab

Had to quote some more of this just to highlight quite how bad this article is.

quote:

And Amazing Spider-Man features the Crane Swing Scene, in which every construction worker in New York teams up with Spider-Man – it’s a vision so ridiculous and sublime and Proletarian that it could have come out of Eisenstein.


The psuedo-insightful ramblings of a Grade A hack.

I like that scene! even if it is just a rehash of the similiar scene in Spiderman 2

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Post #: 12
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 1:48:43 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2361
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Avengers isn't downbeat or humourless. Shite article.

No, but TDKR is!.....just saying...


TDKR has moments that are extremely dark but its certainly not humourless and the film ( and trilogy) has a happy ending.

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Post #: 13
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 4:52:52 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4262
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Avengers isn't downbeat or humourless. Shite article.

No, but TDKR is!.....just saying...


Yes, I know, I was talking about Avengers, what's your point?

If anything the more exuberant and humourous vibe of Avengers was most refreshing.

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"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

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Post #: 14
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 8/1/2013 5:03:02 PM   
MonsterCat


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From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Pay no attention to him, sir. He's really boring now.

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Post #: 15
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 9:04:00 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Avengers isn't downbeat or humourless. Shite article.

No, but TDKR is!.....just saying...


Yes, I know, I was talking about Avengers, what's your point?

If anything the more exuberant and humourous vibe of Avengers was most refreshing.


I agree regarding Avengers, loved it. I was making a point regarding the danger and trend which Nolan has set for downbeat, pretentious and Humorless Superhero movies.

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Post #: 16
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 10:17:51 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7064
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Avengers isn't downbeat or humourless. Shite article.

No, but TDKR is!.....just saying...


Yes, I know, I was talking about Avengers, what's your point?

If anything the more exuberant and humourous vibe of Avengers was most refreshing.


I agree regarding Avengers, loved it. I was making a point regarding the danger and trend which Nolan has set for downbeat, pretentious and Humorless Superhero movies.



but the nolan movies are filled with humour to offset any pretensions.

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 17
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 10:23:54 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
Except it's only the Batman movies that are downbeat. Every other superhero movie that's been released since Batman Begins have basically been comedies. How can it be a trend if only one franchise does it?

Also, pretentious is a stupid word to use. God forbid a director wish to provide more than Bayhem and one-liners in their movie... that makes you pretentious. Fuck that. (I love the direction Marvel have taken their properties for the record).

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 18
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 10:42:05 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Except it's only the Batman movies that are downbeat. Every other superhero movie that's been released since Batman Begins have basically been comedies. How can it be a trend if only one franchise does it?

Also, pretentious is a stupid word to use. God forbid a director wish to provide more than Bayhem and one-liners in their movie... that makes you pretentious. Fuck that. (I love the direction Marvel have taken their properties for the record).


Not pretentious ?. OK, taking itself too seriously for a story about a guy who dresses up as a Bat , or just fucking boring Batman movies then. I actually know who trumps Nolan for pretentious and boring Superheros flick... Ang Lee.

Avengers is a good example of how you make a Superhero movie!. A great mix of humor, action, highs and lows and not taking itself too seriously! God I hope Man of Steel isn't shite, still I wish the guys who made Avengers had been given Supes.



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Post #: 19
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 10:47:06 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
Have you actually read a Batman comic since the 80's?

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 20
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 11:50:46 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Have you actually read a Batman comic since the 80's?

Why? has Nolan started writing comics?

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Post #: 21
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 11:55:37 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
No. My point is, if you'd read any of the greatest Batman stories since Frank Miller appeared on the scene (specifically those written by the likes of Jeph Loeb and Scott Snyder), you'd know that the dark, serious tone of those films is perfect for the character. If they attempted to do something more akin to what Marvel/Sony/Fox are doing with their properties, it wouldn't have fit the character at all. So if you find them "pretentious", or "boring", then Batman obviously isn't the character for you. Hell... DC probably isn't the comic company for you. Move on. There's plenty of films based on Marvel characters for you to enjoy.

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 22
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 11:56:37 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4409
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Have you actually read a Batman comic since the 80's?

Why? has Nolan started writing comics?


No,but it'll give you an idea to where Nolan and crew references have come from,because by and large Batman (and DC comics in general,more so than Marvel) have always taken a slightly more grounded approach with there characters.
Mainstream comics have changed a hell of alot these past 20years,some for the good some for the bad (the bad being is that I dont think they are actually for kids nowadays,especially with some of the mindless gore in them,but thats my opinion)


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Post #: 23
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 12:00:36 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
There are comics for children, but the core titles have matured. Well, the ones still worth reading have matured. Others seem to have decided that what makes those ones mature is the adult themes and just done as much of that as possible, ignoring all of the things that validate the violence in the good ones... usually the ones with involvement from people like Todd McFarlane, Rob Leifeld or Mark Millar.

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Post #: 24
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 12:04:43 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4409
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

There are comics for children, but the core titles have matured. Well, the ones still worth reading have matured. Others seem to have decided that what makes those ones mature is the adult themes and just done as much of that as possible, ignoring all of the things that validate the violence in the good ones... usually the ones with involvement from people like Todd McFarlane, Rob Leifeld or Mark Millar.


Mark Millers Nemesis especially stands out.

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 25
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 12:07:06 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7999
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

There are comics for children, but the core titles have matured. Well, the ones still worth reading have matured. Others seem to have decided that what makes those ones mature is the adult themes and just done as much of that as possible, ignoring all of the things that validate the violence in the good ones... usually the ones with involvement from people like Todd McFarlane, Rob Leifeld or Mark Millar.


Mark Millers Nemesis especially stands out.


Ugh, Mark Millar.

His Ultimates vol. 1 remains one of the worst things I've ever read.

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Post #: 26
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 12:12:52 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Have you actually read a Batman comic since the 80's?

Why? has Nolan started writing comics?


No,but it'll give you an idea to where Nolan and crew references have come from,because by and large Batman (and DC comics in general,more so than Marvel) have always taken a slightly more grounded approach with there characters.
Mainstream comics have changed a hell of alot these past 20years,some for the good some for the bad (the bad being is that I dont think they are actually for kids nowadays,especially with some of the mindless gore in them,but thats my opinion)




I was making a badly made point that we are talking about the movies here!. I am fully aware of DC comics output, I have even been bought two massive hardback books this xmas by a relative who thinks because I like Superman, Batman etc that I want to know the complete history of DC and Marvel comics!!!, I bet they are very expensive too!!. Anyways, No I haven't read a Batman comic for a few years but I know all about them especially after reading my xmas presents. But anyways I still don't really see the point regarding my comic reading and my dislike of Nolans take on Batman. Nolan tried the real world approach and I think it come off as pretentious rather than cleaver or grounded! Chronicle,Hancock and recent TV series have managed grounded more successfully IMO.
Just out of interest! what happened between Begins and Dark Knight . I kinda liked the Gotham I thought he had created in Begins! then we get to the opening sequence of Dark Knight and I like! what the hell!! Bleached daylight in a very generic cityscape!!.. all went down hill from there despite the excellent Joker, down up then down down down

I do a great impression of Nolans Bane with the use of an empty mug!

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Post #: 27
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 12:14:06 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
I'm still amazed at how Matthew Vaughn and Jane Goldman managed to turn such a needlessly horrible, spiteful piss-stain of a comic like Kick-Ass into something as smart, witty and original as the movie they made from it. I was excited to read the comic after seeing the movie and was thoroughly repulsed. The genuine love, between Big Daddy and Hit Girl despite Big Daddy being certifiably insane putting his daughter into danger in the movie is totally created by Goldman/Vaughn, because Millar [SPOILER]makes it so that everything Big Daddy has told Hit Girl is a lie, basically because he was just a comic book geek who was bored with his life[/SPOILER]. That was acceptable with the title character, because it was only himself that he was endangering, but it turns Big Daddy into a completely unsympathetic character.

That said, I did like Civil War. Probably helped that anyone working for one of the Big Two has some constraints that they have to stick to, so he couldn't indulge some of his less pleasant preferences.

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Post #: 28
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 12:20:40 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4409
Joined: 5/2/2012
I didn't like Kick Ass the comic nor Kick Ass the Film.
Alot of it just didnt sit right with me.

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 29
RE: How To Make A Modern Superhero Movie - 9/1/2013 12:28:29 PM   
Harry Tuttle


Posts: 7999
Joined: 12/11/2005
From: Sometime in the future.
I've not read Kick-Ass. I thought the film was pretty good but I don't tend to go to any effort to read Millar's work after reading Ultimates, which I read because it was part of the Marvel Graphic Novel Collection. Having said that though I did enjoy Aztek, The Ultimate Man but I'm unsure as to how much of that was Millar and how much of it was Grant Morrison. I think it's telling that Civil War aside, which I thought was extremely sketchy at best (and would have been editorial led anyway), Marvel haven't really let him anywhere near 616 continuity.

To give him some credit though Old Man Logan is pretty damn good although between that and The Ultimates it's pretty clear he either has no understanding of or just outright hates the Hulk.

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Acting...Naturaaal

Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery!

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Post #: 30
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