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Thanks Empire, another spoiler

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Thanks Empire, another spoiler - 17/1/2013 12:47:18 PM   
jrewing1000


Posts: 469
Joined: 23/11/2005
Seriously Empire. If you can't keep important contents of the story to yourselves in movie reviews, you shouldn't be writing them. (Referring to the reveal of Chastain's post-traumatic outburst). I will never read another Empire review. Unforgivable.

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Post #: 31
RE: Thanks Empire, another spoiler - 21/1/2013 11:48:41 AM   
film man aidy

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 8/3/2007
Great movie. Bested 'The Hurt Locker' in my opinion. A truely great performance from Jessica Chastain. And even though everyone knows the eventual outcome, a truely gripping film. Perfectly judged final scene too.

****

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Post #: 32
Highly Over rated. - 22/1/2013 10:26:50 AM   
lewisb548

 

Posts: 111
Joined: 24/2/2011
Good acting. Occasionally amusing but it lacks the spark and excitement of the hurt locker. Here we see Chastain pulling a lone wolf role and I found it hard to connect with her and the other characters and the film being 2 and a half hours of mind numbingly boring dullness doesn't help. Fuck you Kathryn Bigelow your fllm is pointless.

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Post #: 33
I Can't Believe you gave this 5 Stars!!! - 22/1/2013 2:37:43 PM   
loog125

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 18/9/2009
Just a few pointers at how awful this film is.

1. No evidence exists of Bin Ladens 'Direct' involvement in 9/11
2. There Is a lot more evidence of US involvement.
3. To debate the use of torture in the remotest way is utterly distasteful
4. The film doesn't make a point or stance on anything
5. No character gets any real development or any opportunity to give insight into the minds of the people involved. (Unlike the amazing Hurt Locker)
and finally the most infuriating point....
6. The representation of the people of afghanistan and pakistan is absolutely awful. Vile. Disturbingly short sighted. These people have been bombed, tortured and seen their lives turn upside down through no fault of their own. America's foreign policy IS THE MAIN reason for the rise in power and influence of the Islamic Extremists. Yet this absolutely awful film depicts them as violent, aggressive, intimidating and worst of all as the villains of the film.

As one final amendment, when the British were under constant threat of bombings from the IRA and other related organisations(not forgetting that the IRA funded by American people and establishment). We still had a fondness for the Irish culture and its people. we understood (by enlarge) that its not a war against people its a war against a few. And we feel a sense of national guilt towards tragedies such as bloody sunday. This film supports the lies that have been told about the war on terror and the hunt for Bin Laden. Its is pure vile propaganda. Empire Magazine I have been a subscriber for years and never, and i mean never have i been so appalled and let down by such a dimwitted sheep like review. This goes for anyone that thinks this film is worth anything, - Wake up, actually read the facts regarding the issue, understand that one-sided blind faith results in the people being used and manipulated, and rewatch Network (a film worthy of 5 stars) and then realise you cant agree with the broad points that film makes and sti

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Post #: 34
Very very overrated. There's literally no storyline or ... - 22/1/2013 5:31:55 PM   
Jamie_M

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 27/6/2011
I think a factual documentary about this event would be much more thrilling and entertaining rather than a movie with no plot or story featuring fictional characters and facts. The last 20 minutes are good but up until the point where they find the compound nothing actually happens, can't believe all the hype for this. I don't care about politics or controversial torture scene's. As an entertaining gripping movie, this fails miserably.

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Post #: 35
"White House Aide"? - 22/1/2013 10:47:33 PM   
landy

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 31/8/2006
Er...that'd be James Gandolfini playing the Director of the CIA, Leon Panetta. So the first paragraphs "He’s not cleared for any information she might give, even if she were so inclined" is clearly way off.
Anyway, great movie. I loved it.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 36
Tedious - 23/1/2013 11:06:27 AM   
simjamlmx

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 28/3/2008
Although this has a quality cast, including gandolfini, It failed in it's first obligation to me as a piece of cinema, entertain. I won't get into all the politics because it's pointless. How anyone can say this film is full of suspense like ive been hearing is ridiculous.

(in reply to Empire Admin)
Post #: 37
history for dimwits - 23/1/2013 4:48:01 PM   
johnnymatrix

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 29/4/2006
This film and the review are exactly the reasons why I have been going less and less to the cinema over the years and why I don't buy the Empire magazine anymore. Anyone believing that this film has any foothold in reality really needs to wake up fast. Bin Laden died years ago and it is a documented fact that the C.I.A. visited him in hospital after 9/11. The idea that that this raid actually took place is so ridiculous as to be laughable. I suppose Empire thought the Green Berets was a wonderful documentary on the Vietnam war? This is nothing but unadulterated propoganda with Hollywood once again protraying Johnny Foreigner as vicious, untrustworthy and backward and it makes my heart sink with the thought of all the blood on the hands of Bush and Blair, oh and Cameron and Obama. And before anyone say's 'hey, it's just a film'! it's this kind of proganda that keeps the war machine well oiled. Thanks Empire for your continued support of our foreign policy. Cameron will be proud of you.

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Post #: 38
Killed Bin Laden, Got The T-Shirt - 25/1/2013 1:26:49 AM   
BenTramer

 

Posts: 869
Joined: 18/3/2009
I think it's too soon after the event for a movie about it. When dealing with any moment in history, it's better to let the dust settle and allow some perspective on the event to develop. Plus, while Bigelow included torture scenes for the sake of realism, those scenes will be used by terrorists for propaganda and recruitment (as will the scenes of Bin Laden being killed or "martyred" as the radical Islamists would dub it.) The female character in this is a bit too Clarice Starling for me. While SIlence Of The Lambs was great, it way overdid the sexist men/vulnerable heroine thing.

< Message edited by BenTramer -- 25/1/2013 1:28:11 AM >

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Post #: 39
RE: Zero Dark Thirty - 25/1/2013 6:18:35 PM   
TheMightyBlackout


Posts: 93
Joined: 28/4/2012
From: Oxford, UK
 A great first act, and a fantastic third one are hamstrung by a mid section full of rushed, mumbled, overlong dialogue and too much detail. A technical masterpiece, but not made for me.

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Post #: 40
RE: Zero Dark Thirty - 25/1/2013 8:42:12 PM   
R W

 

Posts: 268
Joined: 23/6/2006
Prior to the American operation which led to the assassination of Osama bin Laden, this figure had been depicted and parodied, not least from Family Guy in which Stewie Griffin took down bin Laden and his terrorist group. Even Super Size Me’s Morgan Spurlock made a rather comedic documentary called Where in the World Is Osama Bin Laden?. Originally conceived as the failed operation for the search of bin Laden, but after the events of May 2nd 2011, Kathryn Bigelow’s follow-up to The Hurt Locker had changed direction.

Since 2003, CIA officer Maya (Jessica Chastain) has spent her entire brief career focusing solely on intelligence related to al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden following the September 11th attacks. In 2011, Maya believes she has found bin Laden in Pakistan.

As a lead contender for this year’s Oscars, it is considered the controversial title of the Best Picture category, due to its handling of subject matter involving interrogation and torture. Despite these allegations, Mark Boal’s script wouldn’t bring justice to this story without the torture sequences, which are not glorified but are significant to the character of Maya who subtly shows disgust over her CIA partners torturing and humiliating a detainee with links to several Saudi terrorists.

Unlike The Hurt Locker which is a more superior work about the intimate partnership between a three-man bomb squad, Zero Dark Thirty which, although is centrally about a woman’s near-decade search for bin Laden, is more sprawling as it details the CIA’s post- 9/11 operations of which the dialogue is technical jargon.

During the first two thirds, the film at times feels like a build-up to the climax that we know how it finishes, but director Kathryn Bigelow keeps the film gripping despite the long running time. If Michael Bay had directed this, the climax would have been a modern shoot ‘em up version of Pearl Harbor, but under Bigelow’s direction, the depiction of the assassination is one of subtlety as there is no music, gunshots are silenced and all the action takes place in the dark.

Watching Jessica Chastain’s performance as Maya utterly reminded me of Claire Danes’ extraordinary work in the TV series Homeland, only without the bipolar disorder and sex life. That said, proving that she divulge herself into different roles, Chastain is truly compelling as Maya whose life is defined by her career that is all about the hunt for bin Laden, which brings a darkness to the character that Chastain brilliantly captures. Despite not appearing during the thrilling climax, the final scene featuring Maya having an emotional moment is Chastain at her best.

Not quite the (literal) groundbreaker as The Hurt Locker, but Bigelow’s dramatization of May 2nd 2011 and the events leading up to it is a suspenseful, if not too intellectual thriller with a great central performance from Jessica Chastain.

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Post #: 41
RE: Zero Dark Thirty - 25/1/2013 10:46:02 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 11281
Joined: 30/9/2005
It drags a bit in the middle but it has a thought provoking first act, and a really tense end. Good stuff.

(in reply to R W)
Post #: 42
overrated but still good - 26/1/2013 6:03:21 PM   
tysmuse

 

Posts: 256
Joined: 24/9/2007
It's basically Homeland: The movie. Chastain - who is very good - just wants to follow her gut instinct, but no-one will believe her! The first 30 minutes are very boring, but by the end, it's enthralling. Not as good as Zodiac, which tackles the same sort of one-person's obsession to catch a killer, but far superior.

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Post #: 43
RE: overrated but still good - 27/1/2013 2:26:27 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 19969
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
 What was the film going to be called originally?

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Post #: 44
RE: overrated but still good - 27/1/2013 2:37:22 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 6226
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

What was the film going to be called originally?


Jessie Chastain's Super Crazy Bin Laden Hunt Fun Time Adventure.

I'm thinking of double-billing ZDT with Django Unchained on Tuesday. Looking forward to checking both of them out.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 27/1/2013 2:40:10 PM >

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Post #: 45
RE: overrated but still good - 27/1/2013 4:00:24 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 6226
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
 EDIT - Wrong thread.

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Post #: 46
Grippingly Brilliant - 27/1/2013 6:06:10 PM   
kramaring

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 13/10/2005
Totally agree with the five star rating. I found it fascinating, gripping, and thought provoking. The initial slow pace only builds the tension before the raid.
Deserve all the awards and more ... even better than The Hurt Locker!

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Post #: 47
RE: history for dimwits - 28/1/2013 9:54:37 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnymatrix

This film and the review are exactly the reasons why I have been going less and less to the cinema over the years and why I don't buy the Empire magazine anymore. Anyone believing that this film has any foothold in reality really needs to wake up fast. Bin Laden died years ago and it is a documented fact that the C.I.A. visited him in hospital after 9/11. The idea that that this raid actually took place is so ridiculous as to be laughable.



I'm sorry, what?

_____________________________

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Twitter: @timonsingh

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Post #: 48
RE: history for dimwits - 28/1/2013 10:39:37 AM   
UTB


Posts: 8983
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon


quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnymatrix

This film and the review are exactly the reasons why I have been going less and less to the cinema over the years and why I don't buy the Empire magazine anymore. Anyone believing that this film has any foothold in reality really needs to wake up fast. Bin Laden died years ago and it is a documented fact that the C.I.A. visited him in hospital after 9/11. The idea that that this raid actually took place is so ridiculous as to be laughable.



I'm sorry, what?



I think he means this story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism

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Post #: 49
RE: history for dimwits - 28/1/2013 4:44:45 PM   
Timon


Posts: 14545
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
 I see. I was curious about his statement that this raid never took place...

_____________________________

"I put no stock in religion. By the word 'religion', I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called 'The Will of God'. Holiness is in right action and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves."

Twitter: @timonsingh

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Post #: 50
RE: history for dimwits - 28/1/2013 4:53:45 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnymatrix

This film and the review are exactly the reasons why I have been going less and less to the cinema over the years and why I don't buy the Empire magazine anymore. Anyone believing that this film has any foothold in reality really needs to wake up fast. Bin Laden died years ago and it is a documented fact that the C.I.A. visited him in hospital after 9/11. The idea that that this raid actually took place is so ridiculous as to be laughable. I suppose Empire thought the Green Berets was a wonderful documentary on the Vietnam war? This is nothing but unadulterated propoganda with Hollywood once again protraying Johnny Foreigner as vicious, untrustworthy and backward and it makes my heart sink with the thought of all the blood on the hands of Bush and Blair, oh and Cameron and Obama. And before anyone say's 'hey, it's just a film'! it's this kind of proganda that keeps the war machine well oiled. Thanks Empire for your continued support of our foreign policy. Cameron will be proud of you.


Right... I love it when conspiracy nuts come out of their hideyholes for a little while to rant at the rest of the world.

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Post #: 51
2 star average user rating vs 5 star Empire rating - 28/1/2013 6:59:28 PM   
Normal Control


Posts: 74
Joined: 11/11/2012
Nice one Kimbo. Seriously man, just coz a movie's flavour of the week in the discussion lounges doesn't mean it's a great movie. I thought The Hurt Locker was over-rated shite, and this looks similar in outlook. I almost wanna see this to check what I make of it. Almost.

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Post #: 52
RE: 2 star average user rating vs 5 star Empire rating - 28/1/2013 7:50:35 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 26908
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
 As if the 2 star user average means anything here.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

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Post #: 53
RE: 2 star average user rating vs 5 star Empire rating - 30/1/2013 2:45:11 AM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3152
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
 Before yesterday, I didn't even realise you can block people on the forum.

After today, this thread alone has sent that option into overdrive.

To compare this to Riefenstahl's work for the nazis is utter ill-informed madness. And speaking as a person with a liberal standpoint, the film does not condone torture whatsoever. It's widely known that it was a method used to extract information, which led to information that was both reliable & unreliable. To have not included that aspect in the hunt for Bin Laden would have been ridiculous - defying a harsh truth which clearly too many people would prefer to ignore. Not for one second does Bigelow suggest you should approve, she merely asks whether you do or not - precisely what Mr. Newman in his review states & what Rgirven suggests a few posts back.

If idiots like the ones in this thread (and certain columnists for the Guardian) can't handle that, I suggest they leave these type of films for people with an actual grasp of the real world.






_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. In The Fog
4. Good Vibrations
5. McCullin
6. Beyond the Hills
7. The Place Beyond the Pines
8. Wreck-it Ralph
9. Shell
10. In The House



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Post #: 54
RE: history for dimwits - 30/1/2013 10:23:46 AM   
elab49


Posts: 51631
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon


quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnymatrix

This film and the review are exactly the reasons why I have been going less and less to the cinema over the years and why I don't buy the Empire magazine anymore. Anyone believing that this film has any foothold in reality really needs to wake up fast. Bin Laden died years ago and it is a documented fact that the C.I.A. visited him in hospital after 9/11. The idea that that this raid actually took place is so ridiculous as to be laughable.



I'm sorry, what?



I think he means this story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/nov/01/afghanistan.terrorism


So not only is it probably made up shit (the French intelligence vested interest planted story) but the nutjobs can't differentiate between 2 months before to 2 months after?




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Films watched 2012

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Post #: 55
RE: history for dimwits - 30/1/2013 9:12:23 PM   
Coyleone


Posts: 482
Joined: 13/10/2008
The stuff about the movie glorifying torture is completely ridiculous, and anyone that thinks it does glorify torture needs to get a grip. Saying that, the film is severely overrated by critics. I literally couldn't have cared less until the third act, and even then it wasn't anything to write home about. There was no real plot, no characters. Just stuff happening and then when it did happen it meant nothing. I've seen a few documentaries about this that were far more entertaining and gripping. The more I think about it, the more pointless it seems as a film. Chastain was good but nowhere near 'best performance of the year' level, and I've seen her give better, more meaningful performances last year in Take Shelter and Tree Of Life. The definition of a 'meh' film for me, nothing to it really. Saying all of that, I was never actually bored which I guess counts for something.

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Post #: 56
RE: 2 star average user rating vs 5 star Empire rating - 31/1/2013 12:59:53 PM   
Normal Control


Posts: 74
Joined: 11/11/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

As if the 2 star user average means anything here.


Sure and I agree to an extent, but THIS wide of the mark? It's got to be down to more than conspiracy crack-heads and politics and something to do with the movie being not very good actually.

To me, 5 stars is saying this movie is brilliant, and I should spend my time and money to go see it. It says even if I don't like the politics, at least technically it's a great movie and I'll be entertained. Then I'm seeing this 2-star average and thinking WTF - this movie can't be good on any level. Begs the question about quality control for Empire reviews.

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Post #: 57
RE: 2 star average user rating vs 5 star Empire rating - 31/1/2013 1:03:17 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 6226
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
quote:

ORIGINAL: Normal Control


quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

As if the 2 star user average means anything here.


Sure and I agree to an extent, but THIS wide of the mark? It's got to be down to more than conspiracy crack-heads and politics and something to do with the movie being not very good actually.

To me, 5 stars is saying this movie is brilliant, and I should spend my time and money to go see it. It says even if I don't like the politics, at least technically it's a great movie and I'll be entertained. Then I'm seeing this 2-star average and thinking WTF - this movie can't be good on any level. Begs the question about quality control for Empire reviews.


Kim Newman gave the flick five stars because he liked it that much.

I think you're giving this way too much thought. What do you want, a magazine/website with which you can agree 100%? That's not how it works.

< Message edited by MonsterCat -- 31/1/2013 1:11:23 PM >

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Post #: 58
RE: 2 star average user rating vs 5 star Empire rating - 31/1/2013 1:50:44 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 3587
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
quote:

ORIGINAL: Normal Control
To me, 5 stars is saying this movie is brilliant, and I should spend my time and money to go see it. It says even if I don't like the politics, at least technically it's a great movie and I'll be entertained. Then I'm seeing this 2-star average and thinking WTF - this movie can't be good on any level. Begs the question about quality control for Empire reviews.


What on earth are you talking about? Different people have different opinions. This review is based on one person's opinion. This thread features many others versus that one opinion. If the net was cast wider maybe there'd be more 5 stars caught. I mean...what do you want? Do you think Empire should wait until they collect the varying opinions from the review threads before publishing their own? Just so it falls in line with this ridiculous 'average' you're talking about? What silly horseshit. Go and see the bloody thing yourself. You have free will, don't you?

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Post #: 59
RE: history for dimwits - 31/1/2013 2:04:36 PM   
Qwerty Norris


Posts: 3152
Joined: 26/10/2005
From: Edinburgh
quote:

ORIGINAL: Coyleone

The stuff about the movie glorifying torture is completely ridiculous, and anyone that thinks it does glorify torture needs to get a grip. Saying that, the film is severely overrated by critics. I literally couldn't have cared less until the third act, and even then it wasn't anything to write home about. There was no real plot, no characters. Just stuff happening and then when it did happen it meant nothing. I've seen a few documentaries about this that were far more entertaining and gripping. The more I think about it, the more pointless it seems as a film. Chastain was good but nowhere near 'best performance of the year' level, and I've seen her give better, more meaningful performances last year in Take Shelter and Tree Of Life. The definition of a 'meh' film for me, nothing to it really. Saying all of that, I was never actually bored which I guess counts for something.


Fair enough, for me though it's already a frontrunner for film of the year. I genuinely felt it was astonishing and how Bigelow didn't get an oscar nom for director completely bemuses me.

And I disagree with your thoughts on Chastain, I think she sells the idea of a individual becoming lost (literally & spiritually) in a wild goose chase phenomenally well - with one of the most perfect endings I've seen in a film recently.

_____________________________

Qwerty's Top 10 of 2013 (so far)

1. Zero Dark Thirty
2. No
3. In The Fog
4. Good Vibrations
5. McCullin
6. Beyond the Hills
7. The Place Beyond the Pines
8. Wreck-it Ralph
9. Shell
10. In The House



(in reply to Coyleone)
Post #: 60
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