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RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films

 
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RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 11/2/2013 8:25:01 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23695
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
The lack of those things in Nolan's TDKR are totally why it totally sucks. ESPECIALLY the lack of Ronald Reagan caricature.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

I hated that era of comics long before Nolan's take on it. Had no interest in Batman even as a child until I became one of the first in my class to see Burton's 89 film (I was like, 5 at the time, and we managed to get our hands on a pirated copy before it was released in cinemas). Now this Batman was cool. Not the fat man in a stupid costume from the TV show that my dad kept on trying to get to me to watch. To this day, the only thing about the 50's and 60's Batman that I can like is the Batmobile from the TV show. Everything else about it was awful.

I got The Black Casebook which compiles some of the Silver Age stories that Grant Morrison was drawing from for his run on Batman, and even if the stories themselves weren't awful, the writers make whoever wrote See Spot Run look like Tolstoy. (Caption: And then Batman reached out and grabbed a ledge, saving himself from the fall, Villain: Oh, no! Batman grabbed a ledge, saving himself from the fall!, Robin: Wow, Batman! You just grabbed a ledge, saving yourself from the fall!... I'm not even exaggerating... that was the quality of writing). Hell, I'd take Batman & Robin over the 50's and 60's...

Early Spider-Man and X-Men did tend to be a lot better than that, though, I agree. Never liked Fantastic Four.


Probably a fair point about the tv show, and it did have an impact on the comics (though I can honestly watch it quite happily - one of the great joys of my undergrad was finishing early enough in the day and our whole house watching repeats on ITV4 all afternoon, so that may have influenced my appreciation), but the period before that during the late 50s/early 60s is what I get the most out of. The writing can be a bit stilted, but I just treat it the same way I treat silent movies and Douglas Sirk films - the style of expression is naturally going to be a bit dated but I try to focus on the ideas and the other aesthetic concepts or whatever. (it's not for everyone, I'm more than willing to admit.) In all honesty, I absolutely hate the proliferation of sub-Miller hard-boiled first person narration that came after TDKR more than any bad Silver Age writing, and it's still going on without having the excuse of working in a relatively new medium or what have you.

it's a shame because there's really brilliant writers working in the medium today, but the general movement in the mainstream comic book industry is *still* rehashing Frank Miller and Alan Moore without the originality that those two initially brought to the medium (something that the success of Nolan's films has contributed to even more imo - though I genuinely really love Batman Begins since it's got a bit more character than TDK). Just like when the book hit a creative low fetishising the campness and family-friendliness of the Adam West show, recent Batman writers are hung up on fetishising the 'cool' 'grown-up' version from the 80s - which has since been pretty definitively debased into just an adolescent version of the character - while neglecting the silliness and the irreverence that those 80s books had (the good ones anyway). I want a less reverent version of Batman, basically.

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(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 91
RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 11/2/2013 8:40:29 PM   
Cloud Cuckoo


Posts: 408
Joined: 7/2/2013
From: Mind your own

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

This is the comic book I'm referring to (The Dark Knight Returns). can't be having spoiler warnings on comic books published nearly thirty years ago.


Oh dear - I do apologise. I am yet to see the latest film (I've mislaid the sodding DVD) and your abbreviation TDKR threw me, being the same and all. I did think it was a rather strange plot ... part of me is now disappointed I won't get to see a robotic Christian Bale battling Superman.

And yes, requesting spoiler warnings for 80s comics would be pushing it just a bit.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Olaf)
Post #: 92
RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 11/2/2013 9:33:42 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4376
Joined: 5/2/2012
If people here like there toys then Mattel's have released images of the classic 60's Batman series.
LINK
A side note:Frank Gorshins portrayal of the Riddler always freaked me out.

(in reply to Cloud Cuckoo)
Post #: 93
RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 11/2/2013 11:33:35 PM   
Dave Oz

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 12/5/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

If people here like there toys then Mattel's have released images of the classic 60's Batman series.
LINK
A side note:Frank Gorshins portrayal of the Riddler always freaked me out.


Me too. He has a very sinister face. A bit too much giggling for my liking tbh, but still cool. I've never really been dazzled by the Riddler character in any of his incarnations either in the comics or other mediums, but I do think the recent Arkham City depiction of Riddler was rather good.

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 94
RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 12/2/2013 1:15:47 PM   
DONOVAN KURTWOOD


Posts: 8927
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: PLANET G
Is anyone able to answer why so many people follow/ obssess over everything this guy says? It's lost on me as i've never seen/ heard anything he's done. Yet EVERYONE seems to go on about him like he's some kind of god! Is he even a movie critic?

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Post #: 95
RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 12/2/2013 2:56:11 PM   
Don_a_van


Posts: 98
Joined: 30/1/2007

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Oz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don_a_van

Interesting debate, I guess many people enjoyed Nolan's tone as the trilogy was an undoubted success but I'm glad a few seem to agree that by making them in this fashion, he has removed some of the magic. I have to say the ultra realistic tone doesn't work for me. It's a story about a man who dresses up as a Bat to take on larger than life villians, you've already blown realism out of the water with that alone tbh, not to mention that Batman is part of the much larger DC universe which includes many superpowered hereos and villians, many of whom have played a prominent role in Batman stories.

Nolan has basically ignored all of ths extended universe by clapping his hands over his ears and shouting "la la la, I'm not listening" very loudly which to me at least makes it very jarring because as a long time follower, you KNOW those elements are their. I'm not for one minute saying that Batman and Robin is the right answer either as that film definately goes too far into camp\silly territory but there is a happy balance to be found and Nolan's insistence on completely ignoring the fantastical elements isn't the right answer either IMO. Just a shame that no director seems to have got that balance right till now IMO.


I'm eagerly awaiting the third take on the Batman mythos which rests nicely between the gothic fantasy of Burton and the almost jarring realism (albeit rather cool) of Nolan's Batman. Very excited!



Yep, when the inevitable reboot happens in 5 years time I hope they get someone who can mix the themes in just the right manor. Sure make it as dark and adult themed as you like but do not ignore the fact that the world that Batman inhabits is NOT real life. Add a bit of goth, a few larger than life villains, a sprinkle of the unreal (although don't overdo it) and most importantly, make Batman an absolute badass so that you really do believe he can take on those villains, he was far too weak in the Nolan trilogy for me.

As someone else mentioned, Guillermo Del Toro would probably be perfect.

(in reply to Dave Oz)
Post #: 96
RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 15/2/2013 9:25:30 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1261
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Oz


quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

If people here like there toys then Mattel's have released images of the classic 60's Batman series.
LINK
A side note:Frank Gorshins portrayal of the Riddler always freaked me out.


Me too. He has a very sinister face. A bit too much giggling for my liking tbh, but still cool. I've never really been dazzled by the Riddler character in any of his incarnations either in the comics or other mediums, but I do think the recent Arkham City depiction of Riddler was rather good.


Gorshin (a famous impressionist) was imitating Richard Widmark's iconic, giggling laugh as Tommy Udo in Kiss of Death (the psycho role he spent the rest of his career trying to escape) and I claim my five pounds.

His Kirk Douglas impression was eerily spot-on too. Check out the animated short, The Big Story, where he voices multiple Kirks of various ages.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 15/2/2013 9:31:28 PM >

(in reply to Dave Oz)
Post #: 97
RE: Charlie Brooker and superhero films - 16/2/2013 5:25:24 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: DONOVAN KURTWOOD

Is anyone able to answer why so many people follow/ obssess over everything this guy says? It's lost on me as i've never seen/ heard anything he's done. Yet EVERYONE seems to go on about him like he's some kind of god! Is he even a movie critic?


He is some kind of God because he made Black Mirror. Also I think my Black Cat, White Cat dvd box has a qoute of his accliaming the film.

You guys should take this as gospel and watch the film as it is extremely entertaining and HILARIOUS.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to DONOVAN KURTWOOD)
Post #: 98
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