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RE: Being fired or resigning

 
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RE: Being fired or resigning - 20/12/2012 6:09:21 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17784
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon
Thanks everyone!!!

I've had my shifts changed again and am now working roughly 36 hours over the course of three days but with the finishing line in sight I'm actually not that bothered! I've remained professional and courteous and ran an entire Christmas party service on my own today without any fuss leaving him with very little to say.

Roll on midnight on Saturday!

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to sharkboy)
Post #: 31
RE: Being fired or resigning - 20/12/2012 8:26:41 PM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
I agree with what Sharkboy said - win-win!

Keep going, the end is in sight! You've coped admirably with a crappy situation for aaages, well done. And well done to putting an end to it.

Last day for me tomorrow! Well, last half day since we only work till 12 on Fridays, although I will probably leave late. I cannot wait.

Still no job to go to after new year though...

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 32
RE: Being fired or resigning - 20/12/2012 11:53:30 PM   
Goodfella


Posts: 17784
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: North Devon

quote:

ORIGINAL: JV

I agree with what Sharkboy said - win-win!

Keep going, the end is in sight! You've coped admirably with a crappy situation for aaages, well done. And well done to putting an end to it.

Last day for me tomorrow! Well, last half day since we only work till 12 on Fridays, although I will probably leave late. I cannot wait.

Still no job to go to after new year though...


Looks like me and you are joining the unemployed thread!!

I've finished my lovely 12-hour shift and yes, the end is very much in sight, in just over 48 hours I will be done!

Several colleagues and regulars hugged me tonight as I won't be seeing them again. I don't think he quite liked that.

I also did quite a few shots tonight with another local landlord who was on a night out. He definitely did like that!

_____________________________

"It is the Shawshank Redemption! Just with more tunneling through shit and less fucking redemption."

If you can quote the rules, then you can obey them.


(in reply to JV)
Post #: 33
RE: Being fired or resigning - 30/12/2012 2:37:46 PM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
I finished work on 21st and even last night I was still dreaming about it.

Anyway I got rejections from the 3 jobs I interviewed for, never mind.

However I have a temp-to-perm job starting 2nd January as an administrator. It pays £7k a year less than my old job but to be honest I think it will give me some breathing space and time to get my confidence back. If it goes permanent the pay will go up a couple of grand.

Either way it's a job, I will be much more skint but at least I can pay the bills, my public transport costs are unchanged, and my commute will be a lot better. No more getting up at 5:30am! Also, I used to go swimming after work and it turns out there's a pool only 10mins walk from my new workplace.

I am actually looking forward to the whole thing but still have this underlying fear I will be terrible at it or will hate it - which is still a possibility I suppose! But if I don't like it I can temp elsewhere and I can still keep looking while I'm there, or I might decide I like it and want to stay.

I'm just so relieved to be out of my old place. Can you believe, even on my last day I was there 2.5hrs later than my finish time and everyone else left, including my boss!

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to Goodfella)
Post #: 34
RE: Being fired or resigning - 30/12/2012 6:18:53 PM   
Sway


Posts: 9086
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Albuquerque

quote:

ORIGINAL: JV

I finished work on 21st and even last night I was still dreaming about it.



My manager at my previous place of work has messed me up so badly that even a year + 3 months after leaving that place my heart rate shoots through the roof when I see somebody that looks like her. Went for a walk with my dad a couple of days ago and a couple were walking in our direction - the woman looked the spitting image of my old boss, and I swear I almost had a heart attack.

I've only been into my old place of work once since leaving and even then that was only because my pal had text promising me she wasn't there.

One of my current work buddies is somebody I met at my old place of work - I basically helped get him the job at my current place. Anyway we both lament the fact that despite us both being free of working for her, we can't shake off the effect she's had on us. I mean, she is still topic of conversation a year after I left that place, despite not seeing her since. I loathe that I let myself be affected by one person so badly, but she just had such a huge impact on what little confidence I already had.

Anyyyyways, my point here is, that I can empathise with you and I hope you find something soon that you'll enjoy a lot more. I definitely think you've made the right decision here - I left that last place of work without having a new job lined up which was a very risky move but it paid off and I got a new job within 2 weeks. Best wishes, hope it all goes well for you.

_____________________________

"I am not in danger, Skyler. I AM the danger! A guy opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!"



(in reply to JV)
Post #: 35
RE: Being fired or resigning - 15/2/2013 9:02:45 PM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
Okay, it's been about 7 or 8 weeks since Ieft my last job and I will say right now it was 100% the right decision to leave.

Since leaving, I had about 10 days of doing nothin' on account of it being Christmas, then I started at a long-term temp job which pays on average £7k a year less than my old one. Quite frankly, I absolutely love it. I get on with everyone, I enjoy my work, my commute is awesome and as there is a swimming pool just 10 minutes' walk away, I have been going there every morning before work.

The difference in me is incredible. I come home happy, I stay up later at night as I get up an hour later in the mornings, and at work I am not afraid to speak up and ask questions and challenge decisions. I have a spring in my step.

I am beginning to realise my old job was having a bigger impact on my wellbeing than I realised. For example, when I brush my teeth at night I often gag when the toothbrush got near the back but in the last few months sometimes it was making me actually vomit. Similarly, I used to have breakfast then 15 minutes later I would be heaving. As I didn't feel sick about going to work, I just figured I was getting older and the body changes but both of these things magically stopped about a week after quitting my job. And - now this one will sound stupid - we used to have pizza every Monday night, just a supermarket pizza but as pizza is my favourite food it was always a treat. Anyway, no matter what I found it HAD to be pizza on Monday nights, it just couldn't be a Tuesday for example. Nowadays I am happy to have it whenever (this week it was last night) and I realise now that I used it as something to look forward to, as a way of getting through Mondays. Kind of a "get through today and you can have pizza", even though that thought never crossed my mind at the time.

I met with a lady at an agency this week - I had an interview on Thursday, after which I went to see this lady who had arranged an interview for me back in December. This lady has only met me twice and she said she couldn't get over the difference in me. She said I'd had a serious edge to me, a shadow almost, but now I was bubbly and outgoing. So it is very noticeable.

So it is all working out for me. I honestly believe I would have had a mental breakdown if I had carried on there and I think I am a little scarred from the experience, and always will be. If you are in this situation, I would strongly recommend you doing whatever possible to get out of it because I cannot stress how big a difference to your wellbeing it will make.

Hugs.

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to Sway)
Post #: 36
RE: Being fired or resigning - 15/2/2013 10:16:06 PM   
Sway


Posts: 9086
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Albuquerque
Really pleased to hear that JV.

I don't think some people can appreciate how completely life-changing it can be to move from a job where it negatively affects every single aspect of your life to somewhere you feel happier. The difference can be unbelieveable.

I can completely empathise with you - I felt like an entirely new person once I started at my current job because I'd been so miserable at my last place.

So well done for taking the bold decision to quit - something that's not always as easy as people think - and getting something new.



_____________________________

"I am not in danger, Skyler. I AM the danger! A guy opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks!"



(in reply to JV)
Post #: 37
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2013 3:58:21 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18422
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
Good to hear things have picked up. I completely agree. A job with a bad environment is soul destroying and when I left one like that it was a weight off my shoulders like I could not believe.

_____________________________

Nothing to see here.



(in reply to Sway)
Post #: 38
RE: Being fired or resigning - 19/2/2013 9:36:10 AM   
Invader_Ace


Posts: 1590
Joined: 31/7/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: JV

And - now this one will sound stupid - we used to have pizza every Monday night, just a supermarket pizza but as pizza is my favourite food it was always a treat. Anyway, no matter what I found it HAD to be pizza on Monday nights, it just couldn't be a Tuesday for example. Nowadays I am happy to have it whenever (this week it was last night) and I realise now that I used it as something to look forward to, as a way of getting through Mondays. Kind of a "get through today and you can have pizza", even though that thought never crossed my mind at the time.


Holy. Shit.

Pizza Monday. 

I thought it was just me.  I also never realised why until now.  My Pizza Monday has also been gone for a while.

JV you are a sage.

(in reply to JV)
Post #: 39
RE: Being fired or resigning - 26/2/2013 9:29:54 PM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
So it's not just me, Invader Ace!

Another big indicator that something was wrong was that I started to buy lottery tickets with more frequency. I usually buy lottery tickets once or twice a year (if that) and then found towards the back end of last year I was buying them every couple of weeks or so. It was when I thought, seriously, "maybe I should buy 10, then I stand a greater chance of winning something significant" that I realised what was going on. I never actually did buy 10 but the thought process was quite clear: win the lottery and never have to go back to that workplace.

I have been keeping up with a couple of old colleagues from that place and firstly one of them (the temp) told me she made a complaint to HR about one of the managers (not my old boss) and another - the one remaining permanent staff member who knows anything about the job, apart from my replacement (who has been there 2 months) - is pregnant again and so will be taking time off soon.I am normally the sort of person who has the decency to wish others well, even when I have my differences with them, but I must admit to feeling a perverse sense of satisfaction at the despair my boss must be feeling about his team basically falling apart.

Anyway, just reading back through this thread, I am wondering how Hood Man is getting on with his job??

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to Invader_Ace)
Post #: 40
RE: Being fired or resigning - 27/2/2013 3:14:18 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
If I'd read that half an hour ago my answer would have been very different

Its going alright, I almost enjoy it sometimes. Then I find myself in a situation where I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing and my world falls from under me.

I can't escape the idea that this is only temporary though, I can't see myself working here in 5-10 years, but that might just be commitment issues on my part.

Thrilled to hear you're feeling better though

(in reply to JV)
Post #: 41
RE: Being fired or resigning - 2/3/2013 12:51:28 AM   
The2ndRing


Posts: 3960
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: rehab
My life in my Job equals the following:

1. Fuck fuck something has fucked up it's a huge problem I've got to sort this out
2. Excellent yes, I've sorted it, the team are engaged, awesome yes this is wicked
3. Oh right, someone isn't happy, they've told everyone but me the manager, shit, why haven't they come to me, what's the problem
4. Yeah sorted that, woo yeah let's move forward, awesome, woo, light at the end of the tunnel
5. BOOM See steps one to four and repeat ad nauseam


All I ever wanted to be was a writer.

< Message edited by The2ndRing -- 2/3/2013 12:52:07 AM >


_____________________________

I've been drunk for about a week now, and I thought it might sober me up to sit in a library

"Do you know what I like about you?
Fuck all."




(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 42
RE: Being fired or resigning - 13/3/2013 9:57:27 AM   
lbiu


Posts: 2779
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Just 3 doors away from Heaven
WOW This thread pretty much details my life right now.

Well I got a degree (which is basically pointless these days unless its a trade degree/qualification) and have never been able to use it. I work as a assistant in a pharmacy and I can't stress how ridiculously over bearing it is. I stand up for the whole day with only a 40 minute lunch break where I get to actually sit. Its tedious and pretty much involves me counting pills and sticking direction and warning labels on medicine boxes. Alot of it is taking phone call messages and dealing with external staff and patients. I have never been a customer service person and get very nervous and swallow my words. I am so inept at most of the job and find myself not even caring and just living inside my head for the whole day. I have gone into a deep depression...it has effected the rest of my life as I hardly go out and spend most of my time trying to find a way out but nothing comes back. I can't complain that anyone is cruel, arrogance is definitely there but mostly everyone is nice but the job is just not for me. The thought of this being a long term career almost drives me to tears....I just hate it. Now I am looking for a way out but into something I enjoy. I have always liked engineering and wanted to explore that but that means going back to education which I financially cant afford and I dont want to go back and gain another qualification that I never get to use like my first degree.

Life at the moment sucks and right now my heart is racing because I know I have to go into work in about a hour for a late duty shift which ends at 8pm.
I know I should leave as it really is killing me inside but there is not much out there and I dont want to just leave and fall into another job I might hate.

:(

_____________________________

My Homer is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star.

(in reply to The2ndRing)
Post #: 43
RE: Being fired or resigning - 14/3/2013 9:30:58 PM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
Wow, Ibiu, sounds like you need a change of direction, and quickly! I think the best way to get into engineering without doing a professional qualification is probably some kind of on-the-job work experience or apprenticeship. Maybe you could approach some local firms about unpaid work experience. Alternatively, if you do a degree, the careers office of your old uni will ALWAYS give you careers advice - I used mine once about 5 years after graduating - so perhaps you could ask them for help?

Anyway, putting a happy end to my sorry tale, I have just been offered a permanent job at the place I have been temping at. A job I love AND a nice pay increase - my old horrible job paid £19k, I've been temping at £12.5k for 11 weeks, and I am about to go up to £17k, so it's not that far off my old salary and it means I can do more than just scrape by. I am absolutely delighted. It doesn't use my languages but to be honest I am happy whether I use them for work or not. Happy happy happy JV!

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to lbiu)
Post #: 44
RE: Being fired or resigning - 15/3/2013 11:35:11 AM   
shool


Posts: 10291
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
Congrats JV. Well done!

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to JV)
Post #: 45
RE: Being fired or resigning - 17/3/2013 8:11:45 AM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
Thanks Shool.

Not that I am a particular fan of using myself as an example but I think it goes to show you sometimes have to take drastic measures,and although the results aren't always immediate, there will be results eventually. I would not recommend it for everyone but it has worked for me and was worth doing.

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to shool)
Post #: 46
RE: Being fired or resigning - 22/3/2013 8:32:38 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
Well... I was feeling optimistic, but having seen the scores for this month's probation monitoring, I'm beginning to feel like I'm only months away from having to head back home to costa del west wales...

(in reply to JV)
Post #: 47
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2015 12:11:44 PM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
I'm baaaack in this thread! I have a new dilemma, and it's not quite the same as being fired or resigning but it's got similarities and I just need advice really.

So - after my last post: I worked at the place that took me on from being a temp for a year and a half. I loved it, had a blast, had a few nervous breakdowns too, but on the whole it was a very positive experience. After a while I started to think I might like to go back to using my languages and working with export. Not because I hated my old job, but because my language skills were just rusting away, I used to love using them, and was I really going to let one bad job stop me doing what I enjoy?

So, I got a job doing export admin, I use both my foreign languages, it's a great job, joined in June, I love it.... The only trouble is the company I work for.

It's a very small company, employs about 35 people tops, some of whom are drivers so I hardly ever see them. It's run by the guy who started the firm, which is great but everything has to be done the way he likes - which is fair enough, since it's his company and he's spent the past 20 years or so being a successful businessman. However he changes his mind every 5 minutes. There are no standard procedures for anything, including communication, so he changes his mind just based on how he sees things.... which isn't always the best way to do things. He also insists on me making every e-mail with foreign languages in it bilingual because he insists on being copied in on EVERY e-mail I send, in my opinion what is the point in hiring a multilingual person to send e-mails in French or Spanish to people who speak English anyway if they then have to put the English translation in - I just think it makes us look like idiots. I've always worked in firms where I could get on with things and report back to line managers but the MD literally has input in EVERY aspect of my working life. I struggle with that way of working if I'm honest.

Anyway, last week something happened. I had intended to send an e-mail to the MD confirming prices I could offer to a customer, and I listed cost prices, freight prices, absolutely everything, for this one particular product. Except I accidentally sent it to the customer. I realised straight away and rang the MD and told him, I was mortified. It happened towards the end of the day and nothing else was said about it, until 24hrs later when the operations manager and the office manager took me to one side (except they didn't really... more later) and gave me a verbal warning for it, which will stay on my record for 2 years. I couldn't believe it. I said I thought it was a bit harsh although I accepted I had sent commercially sensitive information to a customer but it was a genuine mistake, it's never happened before, and they were both there when I sent it and said my reaction was so genuine that it's not like I routinely do this. I was pretty angry about it but they told me I could appeal.

So I went away and did some thinking (aka Googling):
1. I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to have advance warning of any disciplinary action, especially if it is likely to result in a warning;
2. I'm also pretty sure I'm supposed to be given the option of having a witness with me - on querying this, I was told I could, if I appealed;
3. I don't even have a contract of employment or a copy of the disciplinary process so I don't even know what comes next if I fluff up again;
4. This also means I don't know whether I got a verbal warning for misconduct, gross misconduct, or what the penalties for each are;
5. I wasn't even taken to a private meeting room for this conversation, there are 4 of us who sit in the office - me, the operations manager, the office manager, and another administrator - and they just waited for the 4th person to go out to make a cup of tea.
6. This is a job where I work 45hrs a week, 8am-5pm Monday to Friday, without a lunch break (pretty illegal), and we have no sickness pay, etc, or any benefits. I get 20 days a year holiday + bank holidays.

So I'm in a quandary now. Bearing in mind what happened with my previous job (see my original post at the beginning of this thread!!) I was pretty upset and I thought things were going the same way, but it's fair to say things ARE different here - for example I felt able to say I thought a verbal warning was harsh, whereas in my previous job I would have just looked down and taken it without question. I am angry about it because I don't think sending an e-mail to the wrong person ONCE warrants entering the disciplinary process, although I admit it was commercially sensitive information.

However, I feel if I were to appeal, I would be making a rod for my own back. The MD is a good businessman in that he is shrewd, and I feel he would eventually just ask me to leave if I made waves. So I'm very tempted to just take the warning on the chin and go on.

On the flip side, I'm pretty sure my rights as an employee have been violated in many ways and if I just let it go I become complicit. The morning after I got the warning, I asked for my contract and a copy of the disciplinary process but that was last Thursday and I still haven't had it (it's not the first time I've had to ask for my contract either).

I like working here, I like the job, I like most of the people I work with. I am pretty good at my job. I don't like being at the mercy of the MD though, and if I'm honest I find 8am-5pm a long day and I would love to work 37.5hrs again.

So I have considered the following:
1. Say nothing but join a trade union and seek advice from them (I used to be a union rep a looooong time ago - they would tell me to take them to the cleaners I imagine but if nothing else I would have proper trustworthy advice on my rights);
2. Look for another job (although how I am ever going to be able to attend an interview working these hours I don't know);
3. Just forget about the whole thing and plough on.

I don't really feel I could appeal without eventually putting my job in jeopardy.

So I am wondering what other people make of this situation, and also whether you think what I did deserves disciplinary action? I did ask at the time if the warning was about anything else I may or may not have done but was told it was just for that one incident. I still think it seems harsh.

Help!!

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to Hood_Man)
Post #: 48
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2015 3:58:16 PM   
shool


Posts: 10291
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
Couldnt you organise a one to one with the MD and talk it through?
If hes the big cheese he might appreciate you taking it to him.

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to JV)
Post #: 49
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2015 4:17:35 PM   
Professor Moriarty

 

Posts: 10522
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: the waters of Casablanca
Seems to me that there are two issues in this. The job and the incident / way it is handled.

Like most jobs it this seems to have good and bad. If the bad (e.g. hours and micromanagement) outweigh the good (e.g. job enjoyment and pay) then its time to look for something new. My own feeling would be that the hours sound long and the working environment intensive enough that this doesn't sound like a role you'll want to be in in another 3 years time. Also, given the style of the MD, it sounds like if Google translate was perfect they'd be happy enough without you, so time to look for something new. You might have to use holidays, sick days etc. to get this, but ask yourself is that what you want?

The incident. I think it was handled badly, but it might be the thing that you needed to decide if long term this is for you. There's already issues that you are not trusted and I think this has highlighted that. The business should have a copy of its policies and procedures that you can go through. But, I'm not convinced there's enough in it for you to make a big song and dance. I'm not sure a union would say take them to the cleaners, they'd probably get your lunch break and sort out your working week, but this isn't an unfair dismissal and you've not really been there that long any way.

The big question, I'd be asking right now is. Did they want to put that warning there for a reason? Is the business not doing so well? Are you getting less work to do? Is there more scrutiny in general of what you are doing? There's a chance they might be building a case to get rid of you. If that is the case then start getting down the stuff you are asking for e.g. contract and procedures in writing and get that paper trail together of what happened when if you do want to take a case later. And in the meantime, if you think its heading there then cut them off before it gets there by getting another job.

< Message edited by Professor Moriarty -- 16/2/2015 4:20:35 PM >

(in reply to shool)
Post #: 50
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2015 5:04:22 PM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
Thanks for the help, guys.

I don't feel able to talk to the MD about it, if I'm honest. I've sat at my desk before now and listened to the office manager telling the ops manager how the MD is trying to wriggle out of paying so-and-so X amount of redundancy pay - he's shrewd, and he doesn't really do things by the book, so complaining to him about procedure is probably just going to earn me a gruff "man up" about it, followed by a call to the office manager telling her to get shot of me.

You know, the hours have only bothered me in recent months. I feel very tired by Thursday afternoon, and then I realise that it's probably because I've done almost a full week's work by then. I knew the hours when I came here, and I knew the situation re lunch breaks, so I can't really complain. I could ask for a half hour lunch break but would then have to work half an hour later. These things didn't bother me but then it's when I think about everything else: the lack of sick pay is not something I have ever really considered, the way I have seen people get away literally with theft with no recourse, and the office manager told me that someone once threw a stapler at her head which missed it by inches - yet the person who threw it never faced any consequences (but we are all supposed to just put up with his dark moods).

I know that a union wouldn't 'take them to the cleaners' - poor choice of words on my part, and I'm not expecting them to. I guess what I'm worried about is letting it go because really, I'm not likely to get another warning in the 2 years it takes for it to come off my file, and I don't want to rock the boat over something minor... but then what if I get another one for something else that I hadn't realised was an offence? By that time it might be too late for me to do something - but then I feel I'd be making it worse for myself by doing something.

Don't get me wrong, I do like working here, and maybe in a couple of weeks it'll all be fine, but I'm thinking maybe this is TOO small of a company to work for. Right I feel pretty conflicted, which is why I seek advice. I don't really have anyone impartial to talk to about it, so you are already helping by what you've already said.

_____________________________

but love is the sky and i am for you
just so long and long enough


(in reply to Professor Moriarty)
Post #: 51
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2015 5:30:56 PM   
demoncleaner


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Belfast
In the company I work for everything is really policy driven, which reading your predicament I now view as a good thing.

A data protection breach is a real occupational hazard for us. We’re emailing customers across a relatively vast organisation all day every day. In 8 years working here I’ve had one verbal warning for a data protection breach (it’s all a case by case basis, but it’s generally treated more seriously if the content involves salary details. Send a report with a lot of people’s salary? That’s a straight sacking. ) A verbal warning (ours last a year) is the best possible outcome of a DP breach hearing, that’s pretty much without exception.

For us, instigation of the disciplinary process starts with a letter inviting you to a meeting and in the letter you are given the option to bring a friend or union rep.

It sounds to me that your MD is pretty lax about the rigours of a full documented process, and he’s at fault for that…but I don’t know the practicalities of a small business. I would look into the 2 year thing though, I don’t know if that’s a discretion which is legitimate. It’s obviously unprofessional too that you were given this on the floor in front of your colleagues…but that makes me wonder…

It could really be that a) your managers really think they’ve done you the best possible favour with an outcome for the error. B) They’ve done it in sight of the office because one of your colleagues has probably had the same warning. It’s probably only that you made the error openly apparent that the MD feels he needs to go through his formality.

From this it might be that the unprofessional approach is not in question. But at the same time, it really may be nothing personal at all, and in their way this is “fair” from a point of view of previous warnings doled out to your colleagues.

Perhaps.


< Message edited by demoncleaner -- 16/2/2015 5:33:04 PM >

(in reply to JV)
Post #: 52
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2015 5:31:38 PM   
sanchia


Posts: 18422
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich
As I understand it you are supposed to have advance warning of meeting which may result in a formal warning so that you can get Union representation or have a third party present. According to ACAS it appears if a formal warning was on cards you should have been informed in writing before the meeting.

http://www.acas.org.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=1043

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(in reply to JV)
Post #: 53
RE: Being fired or resigning - 16/2/2015 7:18:42 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54735
Joined: 1/10/2005
Pretty sure he's definitely not doing the right thing with the contract - I think the law requires written terms within a certain period, certainly not more than 6 mths. I've had the issue getting similar for my mum when her franchise used to change hands and some flybynight came in with his own rules.

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Post #: 54
RE: Being fired or resigning - 17/2/2015 10:53:23 AM   
Funkyrae


Posts: 20453
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Just stick a pin in a map
This is from Citizen's Advice in relation to contracts:

All employees, regardless of the number of hours they work per week, are entitled to receive a written statement from their employer within two months of starting work. The statement should describe the main terms of the contract of employment. You are entitled to the statement even if your job finishes before the initial two months, as long as the job was supposed to last for more than one month and you have worked for at least a month.

An employee who wants a written statement may request one verbally or in writing. It is usually best to request the statement in writing and keep a copy of the letter, so that you can prove you asked for the statement.

What written details must be given

The written statement must include by law:

the names of you and your employer
the date you started work
the amount of pay and how often you will be paid, for example, weekly or monthly
the hours of work
your holiday entitlement, including how many days off you are entitled to and what your holiday pay will be, if any
how much warning (notice) you are entitled to if you are dismissed and how much warning you must give the employer if you want to leave the job
the title of the job
where the job is based, for example, whether you will have to work in more than one location
what the disciplinary, dismissal and grievance procedures are in the workplace
what sick pay you are entitled to
whether you can join the employer’s occupational pension scheme, if there is one.

The above information does not have to be included in the written statement of terms and conditions. It can be given in, for example, a staff handbook which all the employees can have access to.

An employer may try to dismiss you for asking for the written terms and conditions of your job, even though you are entitled to this information by law.

If you think that your employer may dismiss you if you ask for the written statement of terms and conditions, you should consult an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. To search for details of your nearest CAB, including those that can give advice by email,

I've put in bold the bit that's concerning.

(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 55
RE: Being fired or resigning - 19/2/2015 9:26:17 AM   
JV


Posts: 3524
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: two counties east of home
Thanks for all the advice, guys.

I am going to ask again for my contract today, since it's been a week since I last asked.

Thanks demoncleaner for the point about the data protection stuff. The last company I worked for was a medical company and they took breaches of data protection very seriously however I'm not aware of anyone getting a warning, although it's not exactly something anyone would broadcast, is it? I didn't get a warning but I know a couple of temps got let go (but there were some questions there around how well they'd been trained).

It's made me think a bit more about the warning I got and while I still think it's a harsh punishment for a first time offence, I can sort of see why they felt a warning was justified (barely), I'm just going to leave it. Besides, it's not like I have a copy of the disciplinary procedure to enable me to determine whether I should appeal against it anyway.

However, it's made me think a lot about what I want out of this job, this company etc. In the long run, I don't want to work for a company that, I feel anyway, does not treat me fairly. It's when I weigh absolutely everything up and consider the hours, the cost of travel to get here (although the commute is fine, I have a rail season ticket and bus pass), the fact I don't get a lunch break, I don't get sick pay (not that I'm planning on being sick, but I am not getting any younger), and just the whole way they handle things badly in terms of providing my contract, etc, not to mention discussing confidential information in front of me about other employees.

Not to mention I sign off dangerous goods notes despite having had no training in the field!! Which may also be illegal....

That said, I'm not in a hurry to leave either. So I'm putting the feelers out to local companies, not going through agencies or applying for stuff online really - I've researched a few companies who do export located in areas local to me and I'm basically going to send my CV and a covering letter out to them and ask them to keep my details on file should anything come up. I have already sent it out to 2 companies by e-mail (had replies from both: no vacancies but will keep my details on file) and to 1 by post but I have a list. I'm not expecting anything to come up imminently, if ever, and I don't even have to decide to go through with leaving should the opportunity come up.

< Message edited by JV -- 19/2/2015 9:39:13 AM >


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(in reply to Funkyrae)
Post #: 56
RE: Being fired or resigning - 19/2/2015 7:14:13 PM   
Captain Black


Posts: 6959
Joined: 30/9/2005
Hope it all works out for you JV.

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