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RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition.

 
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RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 10:22:58 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
There was actual physical evidence of Brown hitting a woman, Connery just said it. I did think less of him when I heard that, actually.

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(in reply to elab49)
Post #: 241
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 10:37:16 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54428
Joined: 1/10/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army


quote:

ORIGINAL: elab49

I always thought it was just the one comment - the 'there's worst you can do to a woman than a slap' or similar? There's worse you can do to anyone than a slap tbh - you could make them read Brown's Twitter account. 


http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-bizarre-outbursts-by-celebrities-you-thought-were-sane/


Interesting. Because I thought I read years ago a rather different version of it - my vague memory is saying Sunday Times. before I dumped the paper for being run and written by arseholes.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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Post #: 242
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 10:46:59 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

This isn't really fair - Connery's comments were, like, twenty years ago, and while he obviously hasn't changed, there's certainly no indication he's beaten a woman with the savagery that Brown beat Rihanna.



Unless you believe his ex-wife, who did accuse him of beating her.

quote:

Brown is also a horrible person across the board, stubbornly vocal about how he feels he's in the right and being victimised, yet he still has a successful career buoyed up by millions of (really creepy) fans


I'm not disputing that. Nor am I disputing the fact that the women who gave Rihanna shit over it and also said they'd like Brown to beat them are absolutely clueless.

quote:

Connery's comments are still ugly and horrible, but it's a question of scope and also expected knowledge - do you really expect the same people who know about Brown's behaviour to know about Connery's comments made in 1992?


Well, you clearly know about both and you're about 12. And it's not as if we're talking about some fairly minor name here. Connery isn't just a retired actor, he's someone held up as an icon of cool. The actor that all other James Bonds have to aspire to be. But no, I don't expect everyone to know about it, but if someone boycotted Brown's work on the basis of the ugly shit he was responsible for, I hope they'd do the same for Connery's work if his comments and the allegations that were made against him were brought to their attention. That's what I mean by consistency.

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Post #: 243
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 10:52:55 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54428
Joined: 1/10/2005
Just to butt in a bit here - 'allegations' is not the same as convictions. I'm presuming you're not suggesting a back-up reason for a boycott should be an unprosecuted rumour from someone selling a book?

I'm not saying his own words aren't enough to give anyone pause - it's just, in general, 'listen to these rumours - don't they make you want to treat this person like an outcast' just doesn't sound that good.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 6/12/2012 10:54:26 PM >


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


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(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 244
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:09:18 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
quote:

Just to interject here - 'allegations' is not the same as convictions. I'm presuming you're not suggesting a back-up reason for a boycott should be an unprosecuted rumour from someone selling a book?


Are you suggesting she was lying to sell her book?

Now I personally don't think Connery should be boycotted. But I don't think Brown should be either. But I do think that if someone is outraged enough to refuse to support Brown's work, then they should do the same for Connery. If nothing else, the man has outright said he thinks it's right to hit women

"If you've tried everything else, and -- women are pretty good at this -- they can't leave it alone. They want to have the last word, and you give them the last word, but they're not happy with the last word. They want to say it again, and get into a really provocative situation. Then I think it's absolutely right."

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Post #: 245
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:16:47 PM   
elab49


Posts: 54428
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I'm saying that I think there is a very big difference between an allegation never taken to law and a charge/conviction. 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation] LIKE AMERICA'S SWEETHEARTS TOO. IT MADE ME LAUGH A LOT AND THOUGHT IT WAS WITTY. ALSO I FEEL SLOWLY DYING INSIDE. I KEEP AGREEING WITH ELAB.


Annual Poll 2013 - All Lists Welcome

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 246
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:32:47 PM   
scarface666brooksy!!


Posts: 3544
Joined: 24/10/2007
From: The Valley of the Wind
I remember reading this post on a blog where someone said they're never going to watch another film with Sean Connery, Michael Fassbender and a bunch of others, and that they will never listen to Chris Brown, John Lennon and a bunch of other musicians music ever again because they'd be accused of beating women. I really don't agree with the mindset but fair play, it's not like they're forcing me to do anything. But when people start talking OMGMASSBOYCOT for celebrities indiscretions is where I think it gets over-bearing.

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Post #: 247
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:36:25 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.
And I'm just saying that if people can boycott one celebrity for what he's proved to have done, they can do the same to another for acts he said were "absolutely right". Isn't a bit hypocritical otherwise?

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Post #: 248
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:37:01 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Michael Fassbender? Didn't know that one.

(I do know, I looked it up, go me)

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Post #: 249
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:43:01 PM   
scarface666brooksy!!


Posts: 3544
Joined: 24/10/2007
From: The Valley of the Wind

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

And I'm just saying that if people can boycott one celebrity for what he's proved to have done, they can do the same to another for acts he said were "absolutely right". Isn't a bit hypocritical otherwise?


It is in a way. I think most people's mindset on celebrities is purely subjective though. A lot of people think Chris Brown is a woeful musician so coupled with the fact he beat his girlfriend up, he's a write-off. But there's a lot of love for Sean Connery so you'd be surprised what people will let slip if they like an entertainer's work. I know people who still are ardent Mel Gibson fans.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Michael Fassbender? Didn't know that one.

(I do know, I looked it up, go me)


I didn't know about it either until I read that blog post. It didn't get a lot of press I think but then again I could be wrong because I live under a rock most of the time.

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Post #: 250
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:44:34 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4188
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Celebrities talk shit. Male celebrities of a certain age talk shit. There's a difference between that and then actually perpetrating a physical act of violence that results in a conviction. Like with Chris Brown. People say he "hit" Rihanna. What he actually did was beat her up, and the evidence was there for all to see. So saying that you will boycott his shit music is perfectly justifiable.

There's no evidence to suggest that Sean Connery has ever hit a woman. Nor Michael Fassbender, nor Josh Brolin. So while people have the right to boycott them because of unsavoury allegations it's still ridiculously disproportionate to the Brown situation, for which he was undeniably guilty.

Here's another question:

How did this become a discussion about Chris Brown and domestic violence?

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Post #: 251
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:51:36 PM   
scarface666brooksy!!


Posts: 3544
Joined: 24/10/2007
From: The Valley of the Wind
Oh definitely, actual physical evidence of a crime is absolutely more damning then allegations. Boycotting someone due to allegations is substantially more implausible then boycotting someone for actions they have been proven to have committed.

And I think it had something to do with Twitter, Rawls and PA or something. I'm not 100%

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RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:51:54 PM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Celebrities talk shit. Male celebrities of a certain age talk shit. There's a difference between that and then actually perpetrating a physical act of violence that results in a conviction.


So because he's older it's ok that he says he thinks it's fine to hit women? You don't think that the attitude that says it's ok plays a large part in a culture of violence? In it not getting reported because the victim thinks they won't be believed? What if a current celebrity said he thought it was absolutely right that Brown beat Rihanna? Would that get dismissed as celebrities talk shit?


quote:

It is in a way. I think most people's mindset on celebrities is purely subjective though. A lot of people think Chris Brown is a woeful musician so coupled with the fact he beat his girlfriend up, he's a write-off. But there's a lot of love for Sean Connery so you'd be surprised what people will let slip if they like an entertainer's work. I know people who still are ardent Mel Gibson fans.


Yep, agree 100%

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Post #: 253
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:55:44 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Some people still listen to Another Rock N Roll Christmas this time of year.....

Different crime, but still.

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 6/12/2012 11:56:07 PM >


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Post #: 254
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 6/12/2012 11:56:13 PM   
Pigeon Army


Posts: 14612
Joined: 29/1/2006
From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

Unless you believe his ex-wife, who did accuse him of beating her.
[...]
Well, you clearly know about both and you're about 12.


I didn't actually know about either Connery thing until now, because you brought it up. So that goes to that.

quote:


And it's not as if we're talking about some fairly minor name here. Connery isn't just a retired actor, he's someone held up as an icon of cool. The actor that all other James Bonds have to aspire to be. But no, I don't expect everyone to know about it, but if someone boycotted Brown's work on the basis of the ugly shit he was responsible for, I hope they'd do the same for Connery's work if his comments and the allegations that were made against him were brought to their attention. That's what I mean by consistency.


I think it, in part, comes down to a question of separating the art from the artist - I think, as someone who openly has trouble watching Polanski's films because of the, you know, whole pedophile date rapist thing, I can comment on this. Connery's work is never an expression of his attitudes per se - sure, the Bond films probably share his misogyny in a lot of respects (and I don't like Dr. No for it and the misogyny in Goldfinger really weirds me out), but he's an actor for hire, and now he's a retired artefact of a time when the attitudes he presented were socially 'fine'. Brown's music, on the other hand, is shot through with his venomous, ugly self-righteousness, to the point where the music and the artist simply cannot be separated. "I don't see how you can hate from outside of the club / You can't even get in." "So please babe/So please don't judge me/And I won't judge you/Cause it could get ugly/Before it gets beautiful." And the terrifying thing is, Brown's still making this music and still profiting from it, and will probably do so for some time to come. I don't expect someone to go 'Connery is amazing but BOYCOTT BROWN' with all the information, but I think there's enough of a difference between the two fact scenarios that, if the information were brought to their attention, I would understand if they only rejected Connery the person but still enjoyed Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

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Post #: 255
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:01:28 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

Brown's music, on the other hand, is shot through with his venomous, ugly self-righteousness, to the point where the music and the artist simply cannot be separated. "I don't see how you can hate from outside of the club / You can't even get in." "So please babe/So please don't judge me/And I won't judge you/Cause it could get ugly/Before it gets beautiful." And the terrifying thing is, Brown's still making this music and still profiting from it, and will probably do so for some time to come.


But the thing with Brown, he's been sentenced. Now personally I don't think the sentence was harsh enough, but that's a completely different conversation. Regardless of how ugly the music may be, should there really be a problem with him profiting from it? I mean if he's served/serving the terms of his sentence?

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Post #: 256
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:03:10 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Some people still listen to Another Rock N Roll Christmas this time of year.....

Different crime, but still.


I actually have more of a problem with people who try to deny they were ever a Gary Glitter fan. I can understand people saying they don't want to give him any money anymore, but he was extremely popular at one time and all of a sudden nobody ever liked him.

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Post #: 257
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:05:11 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench

Some people still listen to Another Rock N Roll Christmas this time of year.....

Different crime, but still.


I actually have more of a problem with people who try to deny they were ever a Gary Glitter fan. I can understand people saying they don't want to give him any money anymore, but he was extremely popular at one time and all of a sudden nobody ever liked him.


I used to like that song at Christmas, certainly. Not so much these days to be honest.


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Post #: 258
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:06:04 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4188
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

So because he's older it's ok that he says he thinks it's fine to hit women? You don't think that the attitude that says it's ok plays a large part in a culture of violence? In it not getting reported because the victim thinks they won't be believed? What if a current celebrity said he thought it was absolutely right that Brown beat Rihanna? Would that get dismissed as celebrities talk shit?



No, of course I don't think it's okay. Sean Connery was talking shit. What he said was stupid, and I agree that there's a cultural problem that has to be addressed. Many of Brown's apologists are young women, which is certainly bizarre, despite his guilty conviction and the physical evidence.

Connery was condemned for what he said, and rightly so. But he's never been arrested or found guilty of a similar crime. Same with Fassbender, against whom the allegations were retracted anyway. So while I think it's fine to boycott Brown based on what we actually know he's capable of, I just think in comparison saying that you HAVE to boycott Connery, and others, is a tad disingenuos. That doesn't mean I condone what he supposedly said.

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RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:08:45 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
Oh, and Victor Salva got work after being outed as a child molester. And one of his films after the fact was financed by Disney.

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Post #: 260
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:09:17 AM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4188
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Anyway, what the fuck...?

Only 18 days left until Christmas.

Yay.

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"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

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Post #: 261
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:10:42 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

Only 18 days left until Christmas.

Yay.


I keep posting so the Christmas tree in my sig is everywhere


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Post #: 262
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:12:16 AM   
Pigeon Army


Posts: 14612
Joined: 29/1/2006
From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

Brown's music, on the other hand, is shot through with his venomous, ugly self-righteousness, to the point where the music and the artist simply cannot be separated. "I don't see how you can hate from outside of the club / You can't even get in." "So please babe/So please don't judge me/And I won't judge you/Cause it could get ugly/Before it gets beautiful." And the terrifying thing is, Brown's still making this music and still profiting from it, and will probably do so for some time to come.


But the thing with Brown, he's been sentenced. Now personally I don't think the sentence was harsh enough, but that's a completely different conversation. Regardless of how ugly the music may be, should there really be a problem with him profiting from it? I mean if he's served/serving the terms of his sentence?



I generally think there's absolutely everything wrong with somebody profiting from being a abusive monster. I also think there's something wrong with someone doing that after they've been sentenced, and not only doing it after they've been sentenced, but showing zero remorse for what they did and treating the sentence and public backlash more generally like it was undeserved and totally out of line and acting like really they are the victim in all this.

A sentence is a way for society to tell someone what they've done is wrong, yes. In some cases, serving a sentence may even be the ultimate gesture of humility and remorse - god knows that would probably be the case if Polanski finally served his. But to look at it as the only way to judge someone is not right.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 263
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:17:26 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

So because he's older it's ok that he says he thinks it's fine to hit women? You don't think that the attitude that says it's ok plays a large part in a culture of violence? In it not getting reported because the victim thinks they won't be believed? What if a current celebrity said he thought it was absolutely right that Brown beat Rihanna? Would that get dismissed as celebrities talk shit?



No, of course I don't think it's okay. Sean Connery was talking shit. What he said was stupid, and I agree that there's a cultural problem that has to be addressed. Many of Brown's apologists are young women, which is certainly bizarre, despite his guilty conviction and the physical evidence.



I think they're just people completely divorced from the real world, tbh. I was reading something about Taylor Swift getting death threats recently because she's supposed to be dating someone from One Direction. The girls who do that have some bizarre idea that they're meant to be with that celebrity. And I think the way some women defend Brown runs along similar lines. It's just a fantasy to them and they don't really think about what he did. For some they'll know and not care. For others, I saw one comment that said something like "If he beat her that badly then she must have done something to deserve it." and that's the most terrifying of the lot, I think. Just a complete acceptance of that as normal.

quote:

Connery was condemned for what he said, and rightly so. But he's never been arrested or found guilty of a similar crime. Same with Fassbender, against whom the allegations were retracted anyway. So while I think it's fine to boycott Brown based on what we actually know he's capable of, I just think in comparison saying that you HAVE to boycott Connery, and others, is a tad disingenuos. That doesn't mean I condone what he supposedly said.


But here's the thing, if someone truly wants to say they're standing up against celebrities who think domestic violence is acceptable, to me it would mean something more if they did show zero tolerance.

Like I said, I personally don't think any of them should be boycotted. Same goes for Polanski and Glitter. Liking what they create isn't the same as endorsing them as people.

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 264
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:21:31 AM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15396
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots
But what if listening to Glitter sing, knowing now what he is, makes you want to vomit violently?

< Message edited by Shifty Bench -- 7/12/2012 12:24:50 AM >


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Post #: 265
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:22:39 AM   
Pigeon Army


Posts: 14612
Joined: 29/1/2006
From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

But here's the thing, if someone truly wants to say they're standing up against celebrities who think domestic violence is acceptable, to me it would mean something more if they did show zero tolerance.



It doesn't need to be absolute, though. Most people reserve boycotting for the most extreme situations, which arguably Brown is. Open condemnation may be seen to be as effective for lower-level horribleness. Why shouldn't people be able to apply their own ideas of proportionality?

Besides, if the idea of boycotting Brown keeps discussion of domestic violence and how horrible it is in the public sphere, I'm all for it. I don't think it should be shut down because some people boycotting him aren't occupying this platonic ideal of social justice you're advancing (in an attempt to show them all up for hypocrites).

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 266
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:23:47 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

I generally think there's absolutely everything wrong with somebody profiting from being a abusive monster.


But they're not profiting from the abuse, they're profiting from their music. Regardless of the sentiment in the music. It's not like he's selling his career on that conviction.

(in reply to Pigeon Army)
Post #: 267
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:29:01 AM   
Pigeon Army


Posts: 14612
Joined: 29/1/2006
From: Pixar HQ, George Lucas' Office.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

I generally think there's absolutely everything wrong with somebody profiting from being a abusive monster.


But they're not profiting from the abuse, they're profiting from their music. Regardless of the sentiment in the music. It's not like he's selling his career on that conviction.


He kind of is though. When your last two albums have a running theme of 'look at me now suckers, you hated on me when I was arrested and convicted of brutally assaulting my girlfriend and now I'm on top, bitches better love me, I'm so famous, you were all wrong for hating on me', it doesn't matter if the marketing department plays that down. He's selling that attitude. That attitude is his music. It'd be like Polanski making a film about a man being wrongly persecuted after being accused of rape by a girl, and having that man stand as a heroic figure, beaten down by a malicious justice system and an unrelenting public.

EDIT:

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson
Or [we could be sent back to] the days when PA lived to argue with me.


Enjoy your purgatory


< Message edited by Pigeon Army -- 7/12/2012 12:33:14 AM >


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinc
She's supposed to be 13! I'd want her to be very attractive though


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army
Stop being mean to Deviation

No.

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 268
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:45:05 AM   
rawlinson

 

Posts: 45002
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pigeon Army

I generally think there's absolutely everything wrong with somebody profiting from being a abusive monster.


But they're not profiting from the abuse, they're profiting from their music. Regardless of the sentiment in the music. It's not like he's selling his career on that conviction.


He kind of is though. When your last two albums have a running theme of 'look at me now suckers, you hated on me when I was arrested and convicted of brutally assaulting my girlfriend and now I'm on top, bitches better love me, I'm so famous, you were all wrong for hating on me', it doesn't matter if the marketing department plays that down. He's selling that attitude. That attitude is his music. It'd be like Polanski making a film about a man being wrongly persecuted after being accused of rape by a girl, and having that man stand as a heroic figure, beaten down by a malicious justice system and an unrelenting public.



I'm not disagreeing that the man's a fucking child with little awareness of the consequences of his actions and a tendency to play the victim. But to suggest that he shouldn't be allowed to make this music strikes me as wrong.

quote:

But what if listening to Glitter sing, knowing now what he is, makes you want to vomit violently?


That's different to what I meant, I think. I think it's one thing for someone to say I used to like Glitter, but having found out what he is I can never listen to his stuff again, and another to pretend that they didn't like him to begin with. I personally don't think it matters if someone still enjoys listening to Glitter. It's not an endorsement of him as a man.

quote:

It doesn't need to be absolute, though. Most people reserve boycotting for the most extreme situations, which arguably Brown is. Open condemnation may be seen to be as effective for lower-level horribleness. Why shouldn't people be able to apply their own ideas of proportionality?


I'm not saying they can't. I'm just saying it's more impressive to me that if someone really wants to make a stand they take that zero tolerance approach.

(in reply to Pigeon Army)
Post #: 269
RE: Your Empire Year:- 2012 Edition. - 7/12/2012 12:51:26 AM   
Deviation


Posts: 27267
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
I think the most offensive thing about Brown is that his music is as shit as his character, and his shit character is pervasive in his music.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to rawlinson)
Post #: 270
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