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RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:41:21 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2351
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
As shool said, we should try to stay on topic so regarding the forthcoming films, who should score them? John Williams is in his eighties and despite being in good health i cant see him commiting to a new trilogy.

Also, im rather torn on the propect of the new films.Iv been reading and enjoying the EU for many years so unless they are going to adapt some of those stories for the new films,its going to contradict them.



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(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 1441
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:42:05 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2351
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Christ, they could film in front of paintings that are quite obviously paintings, for all I give a shit, as long as what the characters are doing is done well enough. That's the real crux of the argument. There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER that, for example, the combatants had to be doing the equivalent of fighting while flying on hoverboards around a volcanic environment that would not even have allowed them to breathe, let alone anything else because of the temperature the air would have been at.

A volcanic environment created in CGI for wide shots, with lighting to correspond with the broader colours of the environment for fighting on physical sets in tighter shots of varying closeness and distance from the faces of the characters, with the fighting shown in CGI in wide shots to show how precariously they are placed in the environment where one false move means death...Better than aving someone hstanding on a flying droid's head, controlling it's path using the force, with the robot given a reaction shot of surprise, after which the hover board like scene has people flying around, fighting aggressively while being filmed in positions that don't really allow them to move their feet. Knowing when to leave the showing off to one side and just concentrating on the point of the moment, not GL's best suit,

The point of arguing against over use of CGI is because, as in the example I refer to, ILLUSION OF REALITY is ruined. Nobody is saying you shouldn't use CGI to create things that don't exist. But the moment the films are lingering too long on letting us see things that don't exist, being rendered more lovingly, dynamically and colourfully than the characters that are in the same shot the illusion of connection to the plight of the characters is dead and buried.


All films are fake. The trick is using film making technique to make us willing to overcome and suspend our knowledge of this. And the more fantastical the context, the greater the care needed to make the characters the most interesting things on screen (with background detail for later admiration of films after the first view). Additionally, if in practically every shot you are going to try show the viewer something they have never seen before, the grounding of the film in the form of the central cast of characters is even more important, because the new creatures, machines, sounds and jiggery pokery will act as a constant distraction from the characters, particularly if we are shown a lingering shot of something without being shown it as being something one of the characters is looking at (and therefore being shown it via the experience of the characters as part of their story). Sweeping shot of the lava on Mustafar, without the shot being motivated by character seeing the same thing and realising how dangerous the location is = disengagement from character (and therefore story, mood and tone) for the sake of a money shot visual.

This is very very basic stuff regarding how to tell a story using narrative based film. And you can be pretty sure that these (hardly out there or rare) criticisms of the style and approach to making the prequels will be factored into the process applied to the sequels. Through the prism of being a fan of a series, we can find things to enjoy and ignore things that rankle, but the prequels are considered an embarrassment to the art of film making, by people without a 'personal/emotional stake/ingrained love', for very tangible reasons, the broadest of all being the level of time, care and attention that went into the creation of the things surrounding the characters compared the the creation of, writing and, and crafting of the performance of the characters themselves.

Hope that's not too off topic, given it's looking at 'previously discussed points' but also looking forward to how the new ones will be approached. Bottom line though, obviously: good story, told as well as possible, job's a good 'un!







I disagree.


Then you are a fool.


I disagree.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 1442
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:43:02 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

Christ, they could film in front of paintings that are quite obviously paintings, for all I give a shit, as long as what the characters are doing is done well enough. That's the real crux of the argument. There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER that, for example, the combatants had to be doing the equivalent of fighting while flying on hoverboards around a volcanic environment that would not even have allowed them to breathe, let alone anything else because of the temperature the air would have been at.

A volcanic environment created in CGI for wide shots, with lighting to correspond with the broader colours of the environment for fighting on physical sets in tighter shots of varying closeness and distance from the faces of the characters, with the fighting shown in CGI in wide shots to show how precariously they are placed in the environment where one false move means death...Better than aving someone hstanding on a flying droid's head, controlling it's path using the force, with the robot given a reaction shot of surprise, after which the hover board like scene has people flying around, fighting aggressively while being filmed in positions that don't really allow them to move their feet. Knowing when to leave the showing off to one side and just concentrating on the point of the moment, not GL's best suit,

The point of arguing against over use of CGI is because, as in the example I refer to, ILLUSION OF REALITY is ruined. Nobody is saying you shouldn't use CGI to create things that don't exist. But the moment the films are lingering too long on letting us see things that don't exist, being rendered more lovingly, dynamically and colourfully than the characters that are in the same shot the illusion of connection to the plight of the characters is dead and buried.


All films are fake. The trick is using film making technique to make us willing to overcome and suspend our knowledge of this. And the more fantastical the context, the greater the care needed to make the characters the most interesting things on screen (with background detail for later admiration of films after the first view). Additionally, if in practically every shot you are going to try show the viewer something they have never seen before, the grounding of the film in the form of the central cast of characters is even more important, because the new creatures, machines, sounds and jiggery pokery will act as a constant distraction from the characters, particularly if we are shown a lingering shot of something without being shown it as being something one of the characters is looking at (and therefore being shown it via the experience of the characters as part of their story). Sweeping shot of the lava on Mustafar, without the shot being motivated by character seeing the same thing and realising how dangerous the location is = disengagement from character (and therefore story, mood and tone) for the sake of a money shot visual.

This is very very basic stuff regarding how to tell a story using narrative based film. And you can be pretty sure that these (hardly out there or rare) criticisms of the style and approach to making the prequels will be factored into the process applied to the sequels. Through the prism of being a fan of a series, we can find things to enjoy and ignore things that rankle, but the prequels are considered an embarrassment to the art of film making, by people without a 'personal/emotional stake/ingrained love', for very tangible reasons, the broadest of all being the level of time, care and attention that went into the creation of the things surrounding the characters compared the the creation of, writing and, and crafting of the performance of the characters themselves.

Hope that's not too off topic, given it's looking at 'previously discussed points' but also looking forward to how the new ones will be approached. Bottom line though, obviously: good story, told as well as possible, job's a good 'un!







I disagree.


Then you are a fool.


I disagree.


Then you are a fool.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 1443
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:44:57 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2351
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
The chances of this thread staying on topic are not good with all these idiots around using bad language and calling people names.

Im outta here, good luck with this one mods.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 1444
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:47:33 PM   
Olaf


Posts: 23701
Joined: 26/2/2007
From: 41N 93W
The hilarious thing is that he obviously doesn't even know why he disagrees with job's post. what on earth is there to disagree with?

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(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 1445
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:51:59 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8256
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The chances of this thread staying on topic are not good with all these idiots around using bad language and calling people names.

Im outta here, good luck with this one mods.


Lol, wunderbar.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 1446
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:52:24 PM   
LEEJGM


Posts: 1041
Joined: 21/12/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

The idea of Star Wars in Norwich is hilarious.

It reminds of that one off Armstrong and Miller sketch about the starship which comes across the archnemesis alien known as IAN NOLAN, who hails from the planet known as LITTLE DINSBURY.


Chicagos on a Saturday night in Norwich is very much like that cantina in Mos Eisley...


Anyway, regarding the score, I think Williams will commit to it. It is probably his most iconic work out of all of the masterpieces he has written. However, as good as the scores have been, I think they'd be easy to imitate and expand by many decent composers if the need arises. The main themes didn't differ in the prequels too much with most of it being business as usual (Duel of the Fates and Battle of Heroes were welcome additions of course). I can't see the new trilogy's score being much different.


< Message edited by LEEJGM -- 22/11/2012 2:58:46 PM >

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 1447
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:55:14 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The chances of this thread staying on topic are not good with all these idiots around using bad language and calling people names.

Im outta here, good luck with this one mods.


Exit the fool.

Dunno why he's so upset. I could've called him a silly cunt. But I didn't. Just trying to lighten the mood.

Sheesh.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 1448
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 2:59:40 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

The idea of Star Wars in Norwich is hilarious.

It reminds of that one off Armstrong and Miller sketch about the starship which comes across the archnemesis alien known as IAN NOLAN, who hails from the planet known as LITTLE DINSBURY.


Chicagos on a Saturday night in Norwich is very much like that cantina in Mos Eisley...


Anyway, regarding the score, I think Williams will commit to it. It is probably his most iconic work out of all of the masterpieces he has written. However, as good as the scores have been, I think they'd be easy to imitate and expand by many decent composers if the need arises. The main themes didn't differ in the prequels too much with most of it being business as usual (Duel of the Fates and Battle of Heroes were welcome additions of course). I can't see the new trilogy's score being much different.



Scum, villainy, hive. Do it yourself.

_____________________________

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Bristol Bad Film Club
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(in reply to LEEJGM)
Post #: 1449
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 3:34:52 PM   
matty_b


Posts: 14559
Joined: 19/10/2005
From: Outpost 31 calling McMurtle.
Homer, if you don't make Mr MOD your next title, there's something wrong with you.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Mattyb is a shining example of what the perfect Empire Forum member is.


(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 1450
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 3:36:36 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: matty_b

Homer, if you don't make Mr MOD your next title, there's something wrong with you.





_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to matty_b)
Post #: 1451
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 3:38:04 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Hey, now there's a discussion.

A black Luke Skywalker?

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 1452
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 3:39:16 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I think a horse should play Luke Skywalker.

Cross-thread pollination.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

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Post #: 1453
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 3:57:58 PM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 802
Joined: 5/9/2009
Okay, I'll tryo throwing out a sensible question; Any OT characters you'd like to see pop up in the sequels (apart from the main ones)? I'd like to see Bossk, the reptile-like bounty hunter. Think they might be tempted to resurrect Boba Fett?

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Post #: 1454
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 4:02:12 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I won't know how anything would be a trap unless Ackbar tells me. (After Lando, obviously.)

Wedge has to return. He was the only non-main character in all three OT films, so it'd be nice to have him back again. Also, the whole "he's Ewan McGregor's uncle" is neat.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
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Post #: 1455
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 4:12:40 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
I'm desperately trying to think of Star Wars horse puns. The best I can do is the ice-planet of Hoof. Which is quite clearly crap.

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 1456
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 4:15:42 PM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 802
Joined: 5/9/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq

I won't know how anything would be a trap unless Ackbar tells me. (After Lando, obviously.)

Wedge has to return. He was the only non-main character in all three OT films, so it'd be nice to have him back again. Also, the whole "he's Ewan McGregor's uncle" is neat.


You mean the guy who played him is Ewan McGregor's uncle? Presumably Wedge is not Obi Wan's uncle. That wouldn't work.
Or is Wedge Alec Guiness' uncle? That doesn't seem right.

Wonder if Lando will appear.

_____________________________

All things digested have a similar hue.

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Post #: 1457
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 4:19:04 PM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 802
Joined: 5/9/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

I'm desperately trying to think of Star Wars horse puns. The best I can do is the ice-planet of Hoof. Which is quite clearly crap.



How about this;

"I am your father"

"NNNEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

_____________________________

All things digested have a similar hue.

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Post #: 1458
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 4:21:40 PM   
darthbane


Posts: 5750
Joined: 27/10/2005
From: Twelve parsecs outside the Rishi maze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Olaf

That's some good debatin's.


He's a master debater


I'll get my coat

_____________________________

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Post #: 1459
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 4:41:26 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
I have a bad foaling about this.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
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Post #: 1460
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 4:46:55 PM   
superdan


Posts: 8256
Joined: 31/7/2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sotto Voce

Okay, I'll tryo throwing out a sensible question; Any OT characters you'd like to see pop up in the sequels (apart from the main ones)? I'd like to see Bossk, the reptile-like bounty hunter. Think they might be tempted to resurrect Boba Fett?


Wicket has to be in it. My 5-year-old nieces think he's great.

(in reply to Sotto Voce)
Post #: 1461
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 5:11:16 PM   
Sotto Voce

 

Posts: 802
Joined: 5/9/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sotto Voce

Okay, I'll tryo throwing out a sensible question; Any OT characters you'd like to see pop up in the sequels (apart from the main ones)? I'd like to see Bossk, the reptile-like bounty hunter. Think they might be tempted to resurrect Boba Fett?


Wicket has to be in it. My 5-year-old nieces think he's great.



They have not been misinformed. He is indeed great.

_____________________________

All things digested have a similar hue.

(in reply to superdan)
Post #: 1462
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 9:46:29 PM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
Possible discussion topics:


Will it be in 3D?

Should it be in 3D?

Will you watch it?

Should Chris Hewitt review it?

PG-13 or R?

Who will direct the sequel?

Who should direct the sequel?

_____________________________

Single Virgin Mod Candidate 2013


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Sotto Voce)
Post #: 1463
RE: Star Wars: Episode VII (Abandon hope all ye who ent... - 22/11/2012 9:51:38 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012
There's no point or need for it to be rated R. It's a family film.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1464
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 11:05:03 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: vad3r

Will it be in 3D?


Probably.

quote:

Should it be in 3D?


No.

quote:

Will you watch it?


Yes. Unless it's in 3D.

quote:

PG-13 or R?


Can't imagine Disney wanting to release an R-rated Star Wars.

quote:

Who will direct the sequel?

Who should direct the sequel?


Considering we don't even know who's directing this one yet and what the plot will entail I think it's fairly dumb to be that far ahead with the empty speculation. How can we have a discussion about something so nebulous?


_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 1465
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 11:21:27 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
R-rating for Star Wars would single-handedly be the dumbest thing ever.

_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to DancingClown)
Post #: 1466
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 11:23:48 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20118
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

R-rating for Star Wars would single-handedly be the dumbest thing ever.


NC-17 rated Star Wars?

(gruff voice) My name is Luke Skywalker, and I'm here to fuck you.
(sexy voice) Aren't you a little big for a Stormtrooper...?

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 1467
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 11:30:18 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
"Look at the size of that thing...(!)"

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 1468
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 11:32:12 PM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ
More possible discussion topics:


Serious/dark or light/fun?

Should there be cameos?

Should it break the 4th wall?

90 minutes, epic or in-between?

How much should George Lucas be involved?

Should cinemas capitalise by creating Star Wars themed snacks?

_____________________________

Single Virgin Mod Candidate 2013


quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 1469
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 22/11/2012 11:39:24 PM   
DancingClown


Posts: 4205
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot
Should vad3r be decapitated with a blunt light-sabre?

_____________________________

Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

"Storm just bleeewwww me away..."

(in reply to vad3r)
Post #: 1470
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