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RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 7:39:18 PM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3118
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I think when you start using it excessively is where you have problems, I hate it when a set that could quite easily be made is digitally rendered later it just looks so fake (even the Jedi council chambers were added in digitally in AOTC and ROTS) you have got to give the actors something. I also think that way with the Clone Troopers, why did they need to be digital for close ups, interacting with the the cast and small group shots ? Again it just looks so fake and must be an absolute nightmare for the actors surely men in suits would suffice.

There is some stellar effects work in the prequels but I agree that even now some of it is starting to date quite badly. They just need to find the right balance and they will be onto a winner I'm sure.



Yeah, exactly. The problem was that GL was just dumping actors onto a green screen sound stage and everything, even the characters they were interacting with were all added in later.


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Post #: 1261
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 11:14:21 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2361
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I think when you start using it excessively is where you have problems, I hate it when a set that could quite easily be made is digitally rendered later it just looks so fake (even the Jedi council chambers were added in digitally in AOTC and ROTS) you have got to give the actors something. I also think that way with the Clone Troopers, why did they need to be digital for close ups, interacting with the the cast and small group shots ? Again it just looks so fake and must be an absolute nightmare for the actors surely men in suits would suffice.

There is some stellar effects work in the prequels but I agree that even now some of it is starting to date quite badly. They just need to find the right balance and they will be onto a winner I'm sure.



Yeah, exactly. The problem was that GL was just dumping actors onto a green screen sound stage and everything, even the characters they were interacting with were all added in later.



Thats the way films of this nature are made these days.It all looked fine to me.Greenscreen is used a lot in tv shows as well to portray a character in a different country for exampe.Just because you know how the technique is done doesnt make it bad or fake.Its just a way of telling a story and you suspend disbelief.

Look at it this way,in the golden age of movies from the 40s onwards,they used a lot of rear projection to portray people driving cars in foreign locations.When they showed Bond in the car chase in Dr.No in 1962, Connery is clearly being filmed in front of a projection screen.It didnt fool anyone back then nor is it supposed to.You just suspend your disbelief.

The SW films to come WILL be made with a lot of green/bluescreen.Its a fact because its the most efficent way to make these kinds of movies to portray fantasy worlds that dont actually exist.

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Post #: 1262
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 11:21:42 PM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
Prometheus didn't use much greenscreen.

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Post #: 1263
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 11:26:59 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012
Yeah but those images on the projection screen were still 'real' images. They had real lighting and the objects within the images all had weight, mass, and felt tangible.

That's one of the big problems with CGI is the weight of things, you can tell that a CGI building/character/object is CGI instantly because it feels like there's nothing inside it.

(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 1264
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 11:28:10 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
The more I read about this, the more I'm actually looking forward to more Star Wars flicks.

Michael Arndt is a really smart writer and there's the added bonus of not having an accountant trying to direct them.

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Post #: 1265
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 11:31:54 PM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

The more I read about this, the more I'm actually looking forward to more Star Wars flicks.

Michael Arndt is a really smart writer and there's the added bonus of not having an accountant trying to direct them.


Good to see people realise how good it is that Arndt is writing. I just read an article by a guy named Devin Faraci on badass digest where he's trying to downplay Arndt as a writer by saying that he's 'bland' and 'safe' and downplaying the quality of Little Miss Sunshine AND Toy Story 3! (two films which I think are great and a lot of people will too)
People will just bitch about anything these days no matter how good they get it.

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Post #: 1266
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 11:51:20 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2361
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat

The more I read about this, the more I'm actually looking forward to more Star Wars flicks.

Michael Arndt is a really smart writer and there's the added bonus of not having an accountant trying to direct them.


Good to see people realise how good it is that Arndt is writing. I just read an article by a guy named Devin Faraci on badass digest where he's trying to downplay Arndt as a writer by saying that he's 'bland' and 'safe' and downplaying the quality of Little Miss Sunshine AND Toy Story 3! (two films which I think are great and a lot of people will too)
People will just bitch about anything these days no matter how good they get it.


Little Miss Sunshine.Is that the movie with the creepy uncle that convinces a small child to go up on stage and act like a hooker?

That guy is writing Star Wars?

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

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Post #: 1267
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 11/11/2012 11:58:02 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2361
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
Lucas on being Creative Consultant on the new SW films and what hes looking for in potential directors..http://youtu.be/EBuOHM51YdI

_____________________________

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Post #: 1268
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 12:00:47 AM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3239
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

Good to see people realise how good it is that Arndt is writing. I just read an article by a guy named Devin Faraci




Faraci is fairly well known around these parts as a general Internet rager. Sometimes he's quite interesting but clearly off-base with this one I think.

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Post #: 1269
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 12:02:59 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park
He is hardly Mamet and takes notes well. Which is exactly the sort of guy you would expect to write Star Wars.

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Post #: 1270
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 12:33:54 AM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

Good to see people realise how good it is that Arndt is writing. I just read an article by a guy named Devin Faraci




Faraci is fairly well known around these parts as a general Internet rager. Sometimes he's quite interesting but clearly off-base with this one I think.


Do you mean rager as in people get angry at him or he gets angry a lot?

(in reply to Darth Marenghi)
Post #: 1271
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 12:34:53 AM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

He is hardly Mamet and takes notes well. Which is exactly the sort of guy you would expect to write Star Wars.


No but he is a good writer and to downplay his talents in Toy Story 3 of all things, let alone Little Miss Sunshine is ridiculous.

(in reply to Rgirvan44)
Post #: 1272
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 12:46:13 AM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3239
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

Good to see people realise how good it is that Arndt is writing. I just read an article by a guy named Devin Faraci




Faraci is fairly well known around these parts as a general Internet rager. Sometimes he's quite interesting but clearly off-base with this one I think.


Do you mean rager as in people get angry at him or he gets angry a lot?


I meant he gets angry a lot - although people get angry at him as well, I suppose.

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Post #: 1273
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 12:52:09 AM   
giggity

 

Posts: 292
Joined: 4/3/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi


quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity

Good to see people realise how good it is that Arndt is writing. I just read an article by a guy named Devin Faraci




Faraci is fairly well known around these parts as a general Internet rager. Sometimes he's quite interesting but clearly off-base with this one I think.


Do you mean rager as in people get angry at him or he gets angry a lot?


I meant he gets angry a lot - although people get angry at him as well, I suppose.


I can see why haha. Cant believe he wrote for Empire once.

(in reply to Darth Marenghi)
Post #: 1274
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 6:18:16 AM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1108
Joined: 14/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Thats the way films of this nature are made these days.It all looked fine to me.Greenscreen is used a lot in tv shows as well to portray a character in a different country for exampe.Just because you know how the technique is done doesnt make it bad or fake.Its just a way of telling a story and you suspend disbelief.

Look at it this way,in the golden age of movies from the 40s onwards,they used a lot of rear projection to portray people driving cars in foreign locations.When they showed Bond in the car chase in Dr.No in 1962, Connery is clearly being filmed in front of a projection screen.It didnt fool anyone back then nor is it supposed to.You just suspend your disbelief.

The SW films to come WILL be made with a lot of green/bluescreen.Its a fact because its the most efficent way to make these kinds of movies to portray fantasy worlds that dont actually exist.


That's great obviously I'm not allowed to have an opinion on the quality of the effects work because well, I know how its done, whereas you are obviously its foremost expert and are beyond your own reasoning. It's fake and bad because that's how I viewed it, no other reason. In the same post I praised the films for having some quality effects work.

Obviously there will be green screen and I'm not against it completely I just want to see it used more effectively and just because its the most efficient way doesn't make it the best way, the budget of these films is enough that they could and can do whatever they chose with regards the process.

Girv makes a good point with regards Prometheus, it had green screen but only when necessary, it looks stunning and makes the world that they are inhabiting seem far more real and tangible.


< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 12/11/2012 6:31:34 AM >

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 1275
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 6:18:57 AM   
Dirk Miggler


Posts: 1108
Joined: 14/1/2009
Double post

< Message edited by Dirk Miggler -- 12/11/2012 6:21:00 AM >

(in reply to Dirk Miggler)
Post #: 1276
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 9:47:19 AM   
Rgirvan44


Posts: 19049
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Punishment Park

quote:

ORIGINAL: giggity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

He is hardly Mamet and takes notes well. Which is exactly the sort of guy you would expect to write Star Wars.


No but he is a good writer and to downplay his talents in Toy Story 3 of all things, let alone Little Miss Sunshine is ridiculous.


I think you have to consider that Lasseter, Stanton and the director were all given Story By credits - but that is no bad thing. It shows that he is a team player and not precious about taking notes, which is likely why he got the gig.

_____________________________

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to, than I have ever known.


(in reply to giggity)
Post #: 1277
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 10:05:31 AM   
Vadersville


Posts: 3118
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vadersville


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dirk Miggler

I think when you start using it excessively is where you have problems, I hate it when a set that could quite easily be made is digitally rendered later it just looks so fake (even the Jedi council chambers were added in digitally in AOTC and ROTS) you have got to give the actors something. I also think that way with the Clone Troopers, why did they need to be digital for close ups, interacting with the the cast and small group shots ? Again it just looks so fake and must be an absolute nightmare for the actors surely men in suits would suffice.

There is some stellar effects work in the prequels but I agree that even now some of it is starting to date quite badly. They just need to find the right balance and they will be onto a winner I'm sure.



Yeah, exactly. The problem was that GL was just dumping actors onto a green screen sound stage and everything, even the characters they were interacting with were all added in later.



Thats the way films of this nature are made these days.It all looked fine to me.Greenscreen is used a lot in tv shows as well to portray a character in a different country for exampe.Just because you know how the technique is done doesnt make it bad or fake.Its just a way of telling a story and you suspend disbelief.

Look at it this way,in the golden age of movies from the 40s onwards,they used a lot of rear projection to portray people driving cars in foreign locations.When they showed Bond in the car chase in Dr.No in 1962, Connery is clearly being filmed in front of a projection screen.It didnt fool anyone back then nor is it supposed to.You just suspend your disbelief.

The SW films to come WILL be made with a lot of green/bluescreen.Its a fact because its the most efficent way to make these kinds of movies to portray fantasy worlds that dont actually exist.


Yes but back in Dr. No and the other early Bonds, the car Bond was sat in was real, the images being projected behind him were real and the girl sat next to him was real. I would have thought actually back then that people were fooled by the effects, the same way people were amazed by films like Jason and the Argonaughts.

An effect is bad if it looks fake not because you know how it's done, but an even worse effect is sos bad that you can see how its done and galres out obviously. e.g. So many of the scenes in the second two prequels have the actors playing Jedi waving around their lightsabers willy nilly and blaster bolts are then added in afterwards to look like theyre deflecting but you can tell there's no reasoning behind where they're waving them. Or when Yoda, Mace Windu and Obi-Wan are walking through the Jedi Temple. It looks diabolically bad. Like they've just been dropped into a video game. There's even a clip on one of the making of documenatries where someone queries whether the eyeline is right and GL says "I don't care about the stinky eyeline."

I've no objection to greenscreen and CG being used. It would be impossible to make a Star Wars film these days without it. But they need to show a little restraint, think about what they're doing and avoid the reckless "fix it" in post attitude of the prequels. I think that Cg is actually best used when its putting to REAL aspects together. Like the building sinking in Casino Royale. Modelwork composited on to an actual street in Venice. And it looks fantastic!

_____________________________

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Post #: 1278
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 10:15:25 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


The SW films to come WILL be made with a lot of green/bluescreen.Its a fact because its the most efficent way to make these kinds of movies to portray fantasy worlds that dont actually exist.


No it's not. It's the laziest way to make it. Peter Jackson, Duncan Jones and Neill Blomkamp have all shown what you can do when you combine models, miniatures, sets, actual locations and CGI. You don't simply have to use one single technique.

George may have been happy to shoot most of it on a blue screen (with brief excursions to Spain and Tunisia), but there's no way it was efficient, effective or cheap. And it's not like it drew the best performances from the actors.

That is why the prequels don't just feel different from the Original Trilogy, but they look completely different. There's no grit, no grime - the hanger in Episode I looks like a museum, unlike the hanger in Episode IV which looks like... well, a hanger.

Luckily it looks like the scripts will be top notch thanks to Arndt, here's hoping they get a solid director. Someone like Bird, Blomkamp, Kosinski or even Branagh could make it great.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Vadersville)
Post #: 1279
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 10:16:52 AM   
Timon


Posts: 14588
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Bristol
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

Little Miss Sunshine.Is that the movie with the creepy uncle that convinces a small child to go up on stage and act like a hooker?

That guy is writing Star Wars?


Yep, and it's the best thing that could happen to the franchise.

< Message edited by Timon -- 12/11/2012 10:17:29 AM >


_____________________________

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Twitter: @timonsingh

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 1280
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 10:25:26 AM   
Russ Whitfield

 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012
Kenneth Brannagh directing Episode VII - that'd be full of ace and awesome.

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Post #: 1281
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 1:05:12 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5110
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

Kenneth Brannagh directing Episode VII - that'd be full of ace and awesome.


Come on, it's not meant to be Shakespeare! (etc)

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Post #: 1282
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 1:08:04 PM   
horribleives

 

Posts: 5110
Joined: 12/6/2009
From: The North

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze
Just because you know how the technique is done doesnt make it bad or fake.


You're right - looking bad or fake makes it look bad or fake.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1283
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 1:08:38 PM   
simonmckergan1


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/11/2005
From: Belfast
JJ Abrams has appeared to rule himself out of directing Star Wars Episode 7:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a437415/jj-abrams-id-prefer-to-watch-star-wars-episode-7-as-a-fan.html

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Post #: 1284
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 1:29:45 PM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 3010
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
quote:

ORIGINAL: Timon

Luckily it looks like the scripts will be top notch thanks to Arndt, here's hoping they get a solid director. Someone like Bird, Blomkamp, Kosinski or even Branagh could make it great.



I'd not even thought of him. Not a bad shout… yep, I'm one of the few who actually quite liked Tron Legacy

< Message edited by pete_traynor -- 12/11/2012 1:30:06 PM >


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Post #: 1285
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 1:34:23 PM   
pete_traynor


Posts: 3010
Joined: 28/11/2006
From: Balboa Towers, Balboa Island, CA
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rgirvan44

Prometheus didn't use much greenscreen.


If we get a director committed to building actual sets like those constructed for Prometheus, we’ll be in for a visual feast! Sets on that film were insane!

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Post #: 1286
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 1:36:10 PM   
Russ Whitfield

 

Posts: 425
Joined: 10/4/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives


quote:

ORIGINAL: Russ Whitfield

Kenneth Brannagh directing Episode VII - that'd be full of ace and awesome.


Come on, it's not meant to be Shakespeare! (etc)


Hah hah, not even Shakespeare in the Park? 8lol

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Post #: 1287
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 1:53:53 PM   
Darth Marenghi

 

Posts: 3239
Joined: 10/10/2010
From: Manchester

quote:

ORIGINAL: simonmckergan1

JJ Abrams has appeared to rule himself out of directing Star Wars Episode 7:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a437415/jj-abrams-id-prefer-to-watch-star-wars-episode-7-as-a-fan.html


Probably for the best - I never really saw Disney stumping up the cash for a mega-name like Abrams anyway.

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Post #: 1288
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 7:59:48 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20120
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Now that this thread has calmed down, perhaps the addendum to the title should now read "please skip to page 43"...

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Post #: 1289
RE: Star Wars: Episode 7 - 12/11/2012 11:50:53 PM   
vad3r


Posts: 4403
Joined: 3/9/2010
From: Close to Mod HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: simonmckergan1

JJ Abrams has appeared to rule himself out of directing Star Wars Episode 7:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/movies/news/a437415/jj-abrams-id-prefer-to-watch-star-wars-episode-7-as-a-fan.html


That's a shame. He was my no.1 pick for director.

Looks like it's either Matt Reeves, Brad Bird or Rian Johnson.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: horribleives
To paraphrase the great man himself:

Vad3r won't go anywhere near this.

(in reply to simonmckergan1)
Post #: 1290
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