Register  |   Log In  |  
Sign up to our weekly newsletter    
Follow us on   
Search   
Forum Home Register for Free! Log In Moderator Tickets FAQ Users Online

RE: that's some equity release

 
Logged in as: Guest
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Movie News >> RE: that's some equity release Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: that's some equity release - 1/11/2012 9:22:42 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeoBrowser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy
quote:

ORIGINAL: boristhespie
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeoBrowser
This is the most disturbing thing I've seen on this thread! Why the hell would a company as advanced as Disney dump 30+ years of technology and rebate back to the horrible, horrible, horrible stop-motion and puppetry of the OT just to please a few old people who still think computers run by magic?

Yeah cause computer generated Jabba looks so much better to model Jabba whilenthe computer generated scenery looks so much better and real than.....errr... real scenery.
With respect, Peter Jackson's doing rather well with models, forced perspective and real props.
Sorry Lucas's playing with his "toys" is why the sequels frankly suck.

Ohhhhh he got you there!! he got you good!! CGI Jabba was shite! the puppet still looks the shit to this day! at least compared to the CGi version. And as much as I despise Peter Jackson his work on LoTR effects was a great mix of models and CGi


Uhh, no. No he didn't. CGI Jabba looked like an alien, barely movable puppet Jabba looked like a fucking low-budget puppet. And it looks like complete shitty crap. It did NOT age well!
Yes, Peter Jackson made brilliant work of sets, models, miniatures, & bigatures, but he is one of the few people who has! And he added PLENTY of CGI when necessary! What you guys are asking for is basically asking to have Andy Sirkis in a white leotard bouncing around without the digital Gollum overlay. And that would have been horrible!

NO fucking puppets! NO fucking stop-motion! Either real life or CGI for this modern day, please!
(P.S. also, there are no sequels - not yet. Not until 2015. There are Prequels though, fun prequels.)


Nice try! but you only have to watch the CGI of Jabba and Han scene that was added!! The CGI was dreadful . I Still say the original puppetry in Jedi was far superior!. Just like the Skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts and the first Terminator stop motion sequences are still creepier that any CGI equivalent to date. And all the extra CGi backdrops added to the original trilogy are both badly done and ruin the movies.

_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to NeoBrowser)
Post #: 151
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 9:35:33 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darth Marenghi

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy

I'm not arguing Lucas' changes are necessarily good, I'm arguing that it's his call.



Well, was his call...


True Bleeding Cool have a story on how Lucas is giving most of the 4Billion to an educational foundation. Told you he's a good guy

(in reply to Darth Marenghi)
Post #: 152
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 9:50:45 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation



Because most of them too fucking stupid to be actually with real intent and occasionally show fuck all knowledge of how the scene works.


Ah, so you know how the scene works but the guy who actually directed it doesn't ?
Again, even if you think Lucas' aesthetic choices are wrong/stupid that doesn't stop them being aesthetic choices.


quote:


Jabba in ANH was a terrible poorly handled moment with no importance whatsoever (let alone him first appearing in ROTJ is more effectove then demeaning him in ANH), the Ewoks have had the adverse effect and the space battles are the only one which work. That's not original vision.



Jabba was meant to be in ANH at the time - special effects were not at the point where he could be included. How is that not a case of 'orginal vision'? Because you dislike the changes? 'Original vision' doesn't mean 'things I like about Star Wars'. It's perfectly possible to state that the changes did, in some cases, bring things closer to the orginal vision but that's not necessarily a good thing, Star Wars has always been better when George has had other creative people (Kasdan etc) contributing to the final film and revising the vision etc etc

quote:


That's a man showing he had no idea what his original vision was and how it worked and is constantly changing stuff and is selling more by adding "new additions" that mean jackshit and selling them as Special Editions.


Didn't the untouched versions of the OT sell pretty well when they were released on DVD? If it was just a case of selling more then Star Wars would be available in multiple versions (I'm not talking about formats) rather than only ever having one version supplanted the last one. And if the changes are 'meaningless' then that makes them less likely to be film-ruining ones.

quote:


They're about as believable as those canon books that explain plot holes in the series BECAUSE LUCAS ALWAYS MEANT THEM and are not just another way of getting money. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but those feel more money making then aesthetic.




They might 'feel' that way, to you, but that doesn't stop them from being legitimate aesthetic decisions. George wants his spacesport to have more aliens, or Jabba's door to be bigger and more intimidating. You might think they're stupid aesthetic decisions, or an aesthetic decision you disagree with, but they're still logical (to the person who made them) aesthetic changes.



quote:



Yes, the Han shooting first is clearly on the level of eliminating racism and Jewish stereotypes as moral choices. Are you being serious? And of course there is economics involved because for example, SHOWING KIDS BLACKFACE is bound the cause a hundred times the shitstorms Han shooting first does.


Where did I say all moral changes are comparable? And one of the examples was 'animal cruelty' in Steamboat Willy. These are cartoons! If 'no animal cruelty' was followed strictly then Tom and Jerry (say) would need to be censored too!

To be clear: are you saying that Disney's changes are obviously acceptable in a way Lucas' are not? I'm saying (Woody Allen scrapped an entire filmed version of one of his films!) that a filmmaker making changes to his film is at least as potentially morally justifiable as a multinational corporation making changes to them.

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 153
RE: that's some equity release - 1/11/2012 9:57:08 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


Nice try! but you only have to watch the CGI of Jabba and Han scene that was added!! The CGI was dreadful . I Still say the original puppetry in Jedi was far superior!. Just like the Skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts and the first Terminator stop motion sequences are still creepier that any CGI equivalent to date. And all the extra CGi backdrops added to the original trilogy are both badly done and ruin the movies.



Yeah, but there's lots of things that you need CGI to do - like Jabba walking around! 'Ruin the movies' is pretty strong too. If you showed Star Wars to someone for the first time how likely is it that they'd respond along "the story was good, but all those extra background elements ruined it!" lines?

Interestingly, this month's Empire mentions that there's no minitures etc in the Hobbit trilogy, Weta opting for pure CGI instead.

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 154
RE: What would you moaners do without the Internet??? - 1/11/2012 10:04:06 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7870
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

In theory. In reality : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Skywalker#Expanded_Universe_appearances


What does that mean? this isn't realy reality you know.... is it?

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 155
RE: What would you moaners do without the Internet??? - 1/11/2012 10:06:48 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

In theory. In reality : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Skywalker#Expanded_Universe_appearances


What does that mean? this isn't realy reality you know.... is it?


In theory, more stories with Luke Skywalker would be amazing. In reality, most of them haven't been all that.

(in reply to Sinatra)
Post #: 156
RE: that's some equity release - 1/11/2012 10:08:59 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


Nice try! but you only have to watch the CGI of Jabba and Han scene that was added!! The CGI was dreadful . I Still say the original puppetry in Jedi was far superior!. Just like the Skeletons in Jason and the Argonauts and the first Terminator stop motion sequences are still creepier that any CGI equivalent to date. And all the extra CGi backdrops added to the original trilogy are both badly done and ruin the movies.



Yeah, but there's lots of things that you need CGI to do - like Jabba walking around! 'Ruin the movies' is pretty strong too. If you showed Star Wars to someone for the first time how likely is it that they'd respond along "the story was good, but all those extra background elements ruined it!" lines?

Interestingly, this month's Empire mentions that there's no miniatures etc in the Hobbit trilogy, Weta opting for pure CGI instead.


I dont see why they didn't make the Puppet move around, its not like it wasn't possible a the time, they made Ludo walk about in Labyrinth! I still say Puppet jabba is far superior.
Ok, the added backgrounds ruined it for me (and many others who had the pleasure of the original trilogy), they still look shit either way.
I think The Hobbit will be the poorer for it, will see soon enough. Although WETA is far superior to ILM


< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 1/11/2012 10:11:24 AM >


_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 157
RE: that's some equity release - 1/11/2012 10:38:50 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7870
Joined: 3/10/2005
Interesting...

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 158
RE: What would you moaners do without the Internet??? - 1/11/2012 10:39:54 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7870
Joined: 3/10/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

In theory. In reality : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Skywalker#Expanded_Universe_appearances


What does that mean? this isn't realy reality you know.... is it?


In theory, more stories with Luke Skywalker would be amazing. In reality, most of them haven't been all that.


Arhh I see, but this will be brand new... for the films..! can't blooming wait.

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 159
RE: - 1/11/2012 10:41:15 AM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 801
Joined: 2/9/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: sinaplenty

Who - WHO - wants to see more Star Wars films? Well, obviously accountants and 5 years olds who want to be a jedi...it is unbelievably depressing that they dictate which films get made.


Simple fact is that they are kids films, when episode 4 came out in 1977 it was a kids film, it still is a kids film and every single film since has been a kids film.

(in reply to sinaplenty)
Post #: 160
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 10:54:11 AM   
shool


Posts: 10162
Joined: 24/3/2006
From: In The Pipe, Five by Five.
I'm completely on board. I'm optimistic Disney can breath a new leases of life into this already amazing Universe.

The absence of George dialogue writing and directing is a massive plus.

_____________________________

Invisio Text for Spoilers
[ color=#F1F1F1 ] Spoiler text [ /color ] , remove spaces between square brackets

"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative... It gets the people going!"

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 161
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 11:01:51 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: sinaplenty

Who - WHO - wants to see more Star Wars films? Well, obviously accountants and 5 years olds who want to be a jedi...it is unbelievably depressing that they dictate which films get made.


Simple fact is that they are kids films, when episode 4 came out in 1977 it was a kids film, it still is a kids film and every single film since has been a kids film.



Revenge of the Sith was a 12, and they need to cut bits when they show it on the telly!

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 162
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 11:08:54 AM   
Sinatra


Posts: 7870
Joined: 3/10/2005
quote:

Revenge of the Sith was a 12, and they need to cut bits when they show it on the telly!


That's the only exception though... they are kids film.

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 163
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 11:11:11 AM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 801
Joined: 2/9/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: sinaplenty

Who - WHO - wants to see more Star Wars films? Well, obviously accountants and 5 years olds who want to be a jedi...it is unbelievably depressing that they dictate which films get made.


Simple fact is that they are kids films, when episode 4 came out in 1977 it was a kids film, it still is a kids film and every single film since has been a kids film.



Revenge of the Sith was a 12, and they need to cut bits when they show it on the telly!



Firstly, sorry to be a pedant, but when did being 12 qualify anyone as an adult? Unless your name is Jimmy Saville - YES! I went there

Secondly, the tone of Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith may be more mature but they are still kids films, I believe you can buy a disfigured Anakin doll.

And third, I bet they didn't cut the US cinema version, where violence is much more acceptable to show kiddies, just as long as there are no tits

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 164
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 11:18:59 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: sinaplenty

Who - WHO - wants to see more Star Wars films? Well, obviously accountants and 5 years olds who want to be a jedi...it is unbelievably depressing that they dictate which films get made.


Simple fact is that they are kids films, when episode 4 came out in 1977 it was a kids film, it still is a kids film and every single film since has been a kids film.



Revenge of the Sith was a 12, and they need to cut bits when they show it on the telly!



Firstly, sorry to be a pedant, but when did being 12 qualify anyone as an adult? Unless your name is Jimmy Saville - YES! I went there

Secondly, the tone of Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith may be more mature but they are still kids films, I believe you can buy a disfigured Anakin doll.

And third, I bet they didn't cut the US cinema version, where violence is much more acceptable to show kiddies, just as long as there are no tits


You're a sick puppy I suppose I'd argue that a strict 'kid' v 'adult' dichotomy might not be helpful in classifying films - a 12 that kids and adults can enjoy isn't the same thing surely as a kids-only U?

I remember Simon Pegg (overrated, although I'm sure he'll be almost-tolerable in Star Trek Into Lensflare) claiming that the prequels fail as kids films because of the taxation, fall of a republic stuff. Firstly, actual kids (as opposed to ageing fanboys with delusions of grandeur) do tend to like the prequels. Secondly, surely Star Wars was always kids films that weren't just for kids, and this is as true of the prequels as the originals? McDiarmid in Revenge of the Sith has the most Grown-Up Proper Acting Performance in the whole six film saga!



(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 165
RE: What would you moaners do without the Internet??? - 1/11/2012 11:20:03 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

In theory. In reality : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Skywalker#Expanded_Universe_appearances


What does that mean? this isn't realy reality you know.... is it?


In theory, more stories with Luke Skywalker would be amazing. In reality, most of them haven't been all that.


Arhh I see, but this will be brand new... for the films..! can't blooming wait.


Bleeding Cool are reporting that George Lucas met with Hamill and Fisher this summer in relation to the new sequel. And people thought Harrison Ford looked too old in Indy IV!

(in reply to Sinatra)
Post #: 166
RE: What would you moaners do without the Internet??? - 1/11/2012 12:11:08 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4409
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinatra

quote:

In theory. In reality : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Skywalker#Expanded_Universe_appearances


What does that mean? this isn't realy reality you know.... is it?


In theory, more stories with Luke Skywalker would be amazing. In reality, most of them haven't been all that.


Arhh I see, but this will be brand new... for the films..! can't blooming wait.


Bleeding Cool are reporting that George Lucas met with Hamill and Fisher this summer in relation to the new sequel. And people thought Harrison Ford looked too old in Indy IV!



Well if they are to turn-up in the next film then the make-up people have a job on there hands,a challenging job mind.

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 167
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 12:47:24 PM   
Discodez

 

Posts: 801
Joined: 2/9/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Discodez


quote:

ORIGINAL: sinaplenty

Who - WHO - wants to see more Star Wars films? Well, obviously accountants and 5 years olds who want to be a jedi...it is unbelievably depressing that they dictate which films get made.


Simple fact is that they are kids films, when episode 4 came out in 1977 it was a kids film, it still is a kids film and every single film since has been a kids film.



Revenge of the Sith was a 12, and they need to cut bits when they show it on the telly!



Firstly, sorry to be a pedant, but when did being 12 qualify anyone as an adult? Unless your name is Jimmy Saville - YES! I went there

Secondly, the tone of Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith may be more mature but they are still kids films, I believe you can buy a disfigured Anakin doll.

And third, I bet they didn't cut the US cinema version, where violence is much more acceptable to show kiddies, just as long as there are no tits


You're a sick puppy I suppose I'd argue that a strict 'kid' v 'adult' dichotomy might not be helpful in classifying films - a 12 that kids and adults can enjoy isn't the same thing surely as a kids-only U?

I remember Simon Pegg (overrated, although I'm sure he'll be almost-tolerable in Star Trek Into Lensflare) claiming that the prequels fail as kids films because of the taxation, fall of a republic stuff. Firstly, actual kids (as opposed to ageing fanboys with delusions of grandeur) do tend to like the prequels. Secondly, surely Star Wars was always kids films that weren't just for kids, and this is as true of the prequels as the originals? McDiarmid in Revenge of the Sith has the most Grown-Up Proper Acting Performance in the whole six film saga!



"Firstly, actual kids (as opposed to ageing fanboys with delusions of grandeur) do tend to like the prequels." - very true, and to be fair this has always been my argument when confronted with a foaming at the mouth 40 year old who insists that the prequels are all disgusting rubbish and Lucas deserves to die for foisting them upon the world and destroying their cherished childhood memories etc etc... (for the record I actually quite like the prequels, but then I was never one of those people for whom Star Wars was the be all and end all of films when I was a kid, I much preferred Jaws and became more obsessed with that, had the game, the mug the t-shirt etc).

Secondly, surely Star Wars was always kids films that weren't just for kids, and this is as true of the prequels as the originals? McDiarmid in Revenge of the Sith has the most Grown-Up Proper Acting Performance in the whole six film saga! - Well yes of course, they are all family friendly blockbusters and Lucas was quite clever and calculating(initially at least) to write stories that would engage kids and then put in elements to appeal to adults as well as the rather good turn from McDiarmid, and appealing very much to the Dad demographic, we also got Princess Leia in "that bikini" and a clearly quite chilly Natalie Portman as Padme in a very, very tight white shirt.

As for Pegg, well I think he can try and justify his standpoint in any way he likes, that's his perogative but I reckon his true feelings can be summed up in the scene from "Spaced", where Tim berates a little girl for asking for a Jar Jar Binks doll

< Message edited by Discodez -- 1/11/2012 12:51:05 PM >

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 168
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 1:06:24 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
*COUGH*
Quote from todays Empire article:
THE FILM ALSO NEEDS TO DISTINGUISH ITSELF FROM AVATAR, FROM JOHN CARTER, AND FROM ITS OWN PREQUELS. Our suggestion would be that one way to do that is to keep CG to a minimum and try to use as many practical effects as possible. For one, it will distinguish Episode VII from the sometimes CG-slap happy prequels. For another, it will recall the original films.
I cut the parts where he mentioned Chris Bastard Nolan for obvious reasons....



_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to Discodez)
Post #: 169
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 1:14:09 PM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

*COUGH*
Quote from todays Empire article:
THE FILM ALSO NEEDS TO DISTINGUISH ITSELF FROM AVATAR, FROM JOHN CARTER, AND FROM ITS OWN PREQUELS. Our suggestion would be that one way to do that is to keep CG to a minimum and try to use as many practical effects as possible. For one, it will distinguish Episode VII from the sometimes CG-slap happy prequels. For another, it will recall the original films.
I cut the parts where he mentioned Chris Bastard Nolan for obvious reasons....




How can the new films go further into the galaxy if, shunning CGI, they're restricted to sand/forest/ice real world locations?

Puppets and CGI are both equally 'fake'. Whether it's puppets or pixels 'portraying' Yoda, they're both artificial pretending to be real. Of course, you do get gratingly crappy CGI, as in Babylon 5, but the prequels had lots of great scenes where the actors were integrated into green screen backgrounds. And isn't mo-cap, which everyone loves for Gollumn, still a form of CGI? We're not seeing a dude with makeup or blue balls on his face in the final movie!


Chris Nolan is tied with Grant Morrisson for the best Batman, in any medium, ever! He should do the new Star Wars.



(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 170
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 1:49:57 PM   
JohnMcClane81

 

Posts: 17
Joined: 3/1/2012
From: Nakatomi Plaza
Oh my Goodness, Oh my goodness Oh my goodness.......

More Star Wars... *creams self*

_____________________________

Yipee ki-yaa motherfucka

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 171
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 2:18:24 PM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009
quote:

ORIGINAL: cerebusboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy

*COUGH*
Quote from todays Empire article:
THE FILM ALSO NEEDS TO DISTINGUISH ITSELF FROM AVATAR, FROM JOHN CARTER, AND FROM ITS OWN PREQUELS. Our suggestion would be that one way to do that is to keep CG to a minimum and try to use as many practical effects as possible. For one, it will distinguish Episode VII from the sometimes CG-slap happy prequels. For another, it will recall the original films.
I cut the parts where he mentioned Chris Bastard Nolan for obvious reasons....




How can the new films go further into the galaxy if, shunning CGI, they're restricted to sand/forest/ice real world locations?

Puppets and CGI are both equally 'fake'. Whether it's puppets or pixels 'portraying' Yoda, they're both artificial pretending to be real. Of course, you do get gratingly crappy CGI, as in Babylon 5, but the prequels had lots of great scenes where the actors were integrated into green screen backgrounds. And isn't mo-cap, which everyone loves for Gollumn, still a form of CGI? We're not seeing a dude with makeup or blue balls on his face in the final movie!


Chris Nolan is tied with Grant Morrisson for the best Batman, in any medium, ever! He should do the new Star Wars.





Theres CGi and there is shite CGi, a mix works best IMO. (LotR)

Now i'm pretty sure your just baiting me but I don't care, Nolan is the single worst thing to happen the Superhero movie genre ever. He should stick to boring pretentious twatty mind fuck movies which granted he does quite well. An example of this horrible infection is the fact that judging by the clips of MoS, we are essentially going to get SUPERMAN BEGINS. Same plot same visuals. Just hope there is enough Zack injected to at least pull of a decent action scene, thats all it will need to be better than Superman Returns. Nolan should be put in Arkham and I hope your eye lashes fall out.

p.s. Burtons Batman movies are still the greatest.

< Message edited by Dannybohy -- 1/11/2012 2:20:03 PM >


_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 172
RE: RE: - 1/11/2012 8:50:02 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ
Oh God...

quote:


Ah, so you know how the scene works but the guy who actually directed it doesn't ?
Again, even if you think Lucas' aesthetic choices are wrong/stupid that doesn't stop them being aesthetic choices.



Yes, for example, I WOULD FUCKING KNOW BY NOW IF LUKE SHOULD SCREAM WHEN FALLING IN ESB OR NOT. No, I don't believe they're aesthetic, I believe they're a marketing ploy and an incredibly manipulative one as well.

quote:

Jabba was meant to be in ANH at the time - special effects were not at the point where he could be included. How is that not a case of 'orginal vision'? Because you dislike the changes? 'Original vision' doesn't mean 'things I like about Star Wars'. It's perfectly possible to state that the changes did, in some cases, bring things closer to the orginal vision but that's not necessarily a good thing, Star Wars has always been better when George has had other creative people (Kasdan etc) contributing to the final film and revising the vision etc etc


They did do the scene were he was included only he was human as well, it was taken out (editing is as important and scriptwriting and filming the thing). He was taken out and he was never missed in ANH. Also, glad to see you are recognizing they were other people in the vision, because some of the ideas Lucas had were rubbish and they are as important to the creation of Star Wars as Lucas is. I'm starting to suspect all the quality in ROTJ and ESB are down to Kershner and Marquad.

Oh and I'm not claiming "Original Vision" is "Thing I like", I'm claiming Lucas claim of original vision and aesthetics to be disingenious. You didn't think that the 3D was aesthetic and a vital part of Lucas' original vision right?

quote:

Didn't the untouched versions of the OT sell pretty well when they were released on DVD? If it was just a case of selling more then Star Wars would be available in multiple versions (I'm not talking about formats) rather than only ever having one version supplanted the last one. And if the changes are 'meaningless' then that makes them less likely to be film-ruining ones.


Only the untouched OT were in a terrible print. Say what you want about Disney, at least they preserve something like Song of the South. Oh and meaningless can ruin a film, they can hamper what was working before and make the addition feel heavier. Adding one minor niggle with another niggle with another niggle with another niggle in most scenes, constantly, cause the frustration top increase, they're not a big flaw alone, but they become a big flaw when put together.

quote:

They might 'feel' that way, to you, but that doesn't stop them from being legitimate aesthetic decisions. George wants his spacesport to have more aliens, or Jabba's door to be bigger and more intimidating. You might think they're stupid aesthetic decisions, or an aesthetic decision you disagree with, but they're still logical (to the person who made them) aesthetic changes.


It stops them when Lucas is constantly then telling me to pay more money to see these great new aesthetics of his because it is what he always wanted. I actually find it naive top consider him that way.

quote:



Where did I say all moral changes are comparable? And one of the examples was 'animal cruelty' in Steamboat Willy. These are cartoons! If 'no animal cruelty' was followed strictly then Tom and Jerry (say) would need to be censored too!


Tom and Jerry are somehow controversial for their violence and under a different studio too. Oh and you used Han shooting first as an example of a moral choices and put them on the same level eliminating picaninny and blackface, you put them on the same level, almost looking blind to why putting blackface is a horribly offensive thing and horrible to show in a kids joke and far different to having Han shooting first.

quote:

To be clear: are you saying that Disney's changes are obviously acceptable in a way Lucas' are not? I'm saying (Woody Allen scrapped an entire filmed version of one of his films!) that a filmmaker making changes to his film is at least as potentially morally justifiable as a multinational corporation making changes to them.


Of course I am saying that and it is self evident to why they are. Disney cut this so that children may see the cartoon....

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Oh+Disney...+you+so+racist..+Yeah...+that+pretty+much+says_c3fb28_3418039.jpg

Lucas changed this...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Uvx_rk2Iyq0/T0P_q9XWx5I/AAAAAAAANo0/PEtkV2_aaVI/s1600/han-solo-greedo.jpg

It's because of what the changes are. Lucas can change and make Star Wars worse than it already is all he wants, but the reasons to why Disney changed something to why Lucas did them are completely different in both intent and reasoning. I don't hate Lucas, he does what he does and Star Wars were this sort of thing from the 80s (I love his reasoning that he does these to sell toys, then kids can create their stories using their imagination using toys), but Disney's changes to Lucas are completely different.

< Message edited by Deviation -- 1/11/2012 8:54:40 PM >


_____________________________

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 173
RE: RE: - 2/11/2012 1:31:32 AM   
NeoBrowser

 

Posts: 196
Joined: 1/5/2012
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy
Now i'm pretty sure your just baiting me but I don't care, Nolan is the single worst thing to happen the Superhero movie genre ever. He should stick to boring pretentious twatty mind fuck movies which granted he does quite well. An example of this horrible infection is the fact that judging by the clips of MoS, we are essentially going to get SUPERMAN BEGINS. Same plot same visuals. Just hope there is enough Zack injected to at least pull of a decent action scene, thats all it will need to be better than Superman Returns. Nolan should be put in Arkham and I hope your eye lashes fall out.
p.s. Burtons Batman movies are still the greatest.


Or, to rephrase:

Nolan is the single BEST thing to happen the Superhero movie genre ever. He should be given as many DC comic heroes to make into films which he does quite well. An example of this wonderful new thing is the fact that judging by the clips of MoS, we are essentially going to get SUPERMAN BEGINS, which will be epic. Nolan should be given an BAFTA and YOU should be locked up in Arkham and prevented from airing your horrible film tastes on the internet.
p.s. Burtons Batman movies are some of the worst.

(And judging by everything you've said in this thread, you are living so far in the past that you can't accept new advancements in film or technology. Someone call the orderlies, another one got out!)

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 174
RE: RE: - 2/11/2012 7:33:28 AM   
grucl

 

Posts: 2494
Joined: 11/2/2008
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deviation

quote:

Jabba was meant to be in ANH at the time - special effects were not at the point where he could be included. How is that not a case of 'orginal vision'? Because you dislike the changes? 'Original vision' doesn't mean 'things I like about Star Wars'. It's perfectly possible to state that the changes did, in some cases, bring things closer to the orginal vision but that's not necessarily a good thing, Star Wars has always been better when George has had other creative people (Kasdan etc) contributing to the final film and revising the vision etc etc


They did do the scene were he was included only he was human as well, it was taken out (editing is as important and scriptwriting and filming the thing).


There is is in fact no evidence (other than George Lucas' word *cough*) that Jabba in ANH was gonna be anything else than a human actor in a costume. Quite to the contrary:

1. The actor Declan Mulholland wore a full costume and make-up. There are even sketchs for his costume made by John Mollo.

2. They actually cast an actor for the role. It wasn't done by a ILM stand-in.

3. There was no Vistavision camera on set during the shooting of the Jabba scene. This camera would have been needed to add in optical effects later (all other F/X scenes from Star Wars were filmed using the Vistavision camera).

4. The part of the scene where Han an Jabba touch each other or walk around each other would have been undoable by 1977 standards and all involved would have known that.

< Message edited by grucl -- 2/11/2012 7:34:25 AM >

(in reply to Deviation)
Post #: 175
RE: RE: - 2/11/2012 9:27:58 AM   
Dannybohy


Posts: 1374
Joined: 7/1/2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeoBrowser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy
Now i'm pretty sure your just baiting me but I don't care, Nolan is the single worst thing to happen the Superhero movie genre ever. He should stick to boring pretentious twatty mind fuck movies which granted he does quite well. An example of this horrible infection is the fact that judging by the clips of MoS, we are essentially going to get SUPERMAN BEGINS. Same plot same visuals. Just hope there is enough Zack injected to at least pull of a decent action scene, thats all it will need to be better than Superman Returns. Nolan should be put in Arkham and I hope your eye lashes fall out.
p.s. Burtons Batman movies are still the greatest.


Or, to rephrase:

Nolan is the single BEST thing to happen the Superhero movie genre ever. He should be given as many DC comic heroes to make into films which he does quite well. An example of this wonderful new thing is the fact that judging by the clips of MoS, we are essentially going to get SUPERMAN BEGINS, which will be epic. Nolan should be given an BAFTA and YOU should be locked up in Arkham and prevented from airing your horrible film tastes on the internet.
p.s. Burtons Batman movies are some of the worst.

(And judging by everything you've said in this thread, you are living so far in the past that you can't accept new advancements in film or technology. Someone call the orderlies, another one got out!)


The double bait! always a winner. Judging by your post, your about 17 years old.

_____________________________

'Man of Steel!,Man of Shit!' -fairyprincess

(in reply to NeoBrowser)
Post #: 176
RE: RE: - 2/11/2012 9:39:21 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeoBrowser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dannybohy
Now i'm pretty sure your just baiting me but I don't care, Nolan is the single worst thing to happen the Superhero movie genre ever. He should stick to boring pretentious twatty mind fuck movies which granted he does quite well. An example of this horrible infection is the fact that judging by the clips of MoS, we are essentially going to get SUPERMAN BEGINS. Same plot same visuals. Just hope there is enough Zack injected to at least pull of a decent action scene, thats all it will need to be better than Superman Returns. Nolan should be put in Arkham and I hope your eye lashes fall out.
p.s. Burtons Batman movies are still the greatest.


Or, to rephrase:

Nolan is the single BEST thing to happen the Superhero movie genre ever. He should be given as many DC comic heroes to make into films which he does quite well. An example of this wonderful new thing is the fact that judging by the clips of MoS, we are essentially going to get SUPERMAN BEGINS, which will be epic. Nolan should be given an BAFTA and YOU should be locked up in Arkham and prevented from airing your horrible film tastes on the internet.
p.s. Burtons Batman movies are some of the worst.

(And judging by everything you've said in this thread, you are living so far in the past that you can't accept new advancements in film or technology. Someone call the orderlies, another one got out!)


The double bait! always a winner. Judging by your post, your about 17 years old.



Come on dude, given how widely rated Nolan's films are, surely the burden of proof is on you to offer an argument for why you hate him so? Personally, I don't want anyone's eyelashes to fall out...

I liked Burton's Batmovies - indeed, I've suggested that he might be the obvious choice if Disney decide to go with a great visual stylist for episode VII - but Nolan's Batfilms have a serious Batman *and* proper themes, ideas, charactisation, subtext, striking visuals (the burning fire track in post-9/11 DK is still a more striking image than even Burton ever managed in his Batfilms). Snyder, in contrast, is famous for crap versions of good graphic novels! There's more to Superman than action.

Would you be up for a Burton-directed Episode VII? My point was that, if you can't get away from a plot that is, on some level , a rehash of the PT/OT ( Sith wiping out Jedi, Jedi coming back and restoring peace to the galaxy) maybe accepting that and going with a fresh, new distinctive visual look might be the way to go, instead of needlessly monkeying with the classic Star Wars formula. I'm surprised people haven't been suggesting some of the Pixar dudes - but then I suppose the live action John Carter was a big flop!

(in reply to Dannybohy)
Post #: 177
RE: RE: - 2/11/2012 9:42:45 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: grucl



There is is in fact no evidence (other than George Lucas' word *cough*) that Jabba in ANH was gonna be anything else than a human actor in a costume. Quite to the contrary:



Right. George wanted a Jabba scene. Financially, they could only afford a guy in a suit (remember that the Cantina scene has dudes in wolf masks due to budgetary constraints). The guy in the suit looked rubbish. Years later, when George has oodles of cash and creative control, he puts Jabba back in with the best available technology. Surely that's a case of technology catching up with the original vision? I know people think George is not exactly honest when it comes to claiming what was in his original vision but surely the fact that they tried to film Jabba in ANH at the time shows that it definitely is part of the original vision?

(in reply to grucl)
Post #: 178
RE: RE: - 2/11/2012 10:22:31 AM   
chewbacasnapsak


Posts: 740
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: westbound on olympic
I always thought both the Star Wars and the Indiana Jones movies were intended to be a hark back to the serial movies of the 30s and 40s, a fact that both Lucas and Speilberg banged on about constantly, but then instead of doing just that and release a movie every 2 or 3 years like the Bond franchise they just held on to it and refused to let other directors and actors run with it. Coupled with grumpy fucker Harrison Ford shunning the roles that made him in the first place, until Indy IV, in which I thought he looked like he had a gun to his head.

I am up for both new Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies, i am a huge fan of both franchises, and they should be allowed to evolve and change with new directors and actors. Some of the films are going to suck (like some of the Bond films do) but with each new film you open it up to new and old fans (just like Skyfall is doing for Bond).

I was never a fan of the Star Trek franchise, but i thought the 2009 film was outstanding, casting new actors in established roles worked well here and breathed required life into a franchise that was on its arse.

It may be possible for both Star Wars and Indiana Jones to go the Star Trek route, but give it a go anyway.

Personally I don't want to see it kicked off again with a bunch of pensioners, so tell Ford and Hammil to fuck off from the get go.

_____________________________

"who'd pay a million dollars to have me killed"
"jealous husbands, outraged chefs, humiliated tailors...the list is endless"

(in reply to cerebusboy)
Post #: 179
RE: RE: - 2/11/2012 10:26:49 AM   
cerebusboy


Posts: 1552
Joined: 1/5/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: chewbacasnapsak

I always thought both the Star Wars and the Indiana Jones movies were intended to be a hark back to the serial movies of the 30s and 40s, a fact that both Lucas and Speilberg banged on about constantly, but then instead of doing just that and release a movie every 2 or 3 years


Well, in fairness, how many big directors would be up for doing a classic sci-fi serial style movie? If Ridley Scott or James Cameron (say) were up for doing a Star Wars movie, surely they'd want to take as long as they want and do whatever they want to? That's the price you pay for visionary directors! I realise I'm in the minority in liking Crystal Skull, but I'd imagine there's a lot of people who'd much rather have the three original films directed by Spielberg, rather than a whole lot of films by inferior directors.

(in reply to chewbacasnapsak)
Post #: 180
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Film Forums] >> Movie News >> RE: that's some equity release Page: <<   < prev  3 4 5 [6] 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


 
Movie News  |  Empire Blog  |  Movie Reviews  |  Future Films  |  Features  |  Video Interviews  |  Image Gallery  |  Competitions  |  Forum  |  Magazine  |  Resources
 
Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.219