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RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 25/11/2013 4:32:21 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7939
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: King of Kafiristan

Gun Barrel stays at the end.



Duck and cover, buddy. Duck and cover.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to King of Kafiristan)
Post #: 211
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 25/11/2013 5:23:34 PM   
musht


Posts: 1883
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat


quote:

ORIGINAL: King of Kafiristan

Gun Barrel stays at the end.



Duck and cover, buddy. Duck and cover.


This oughta be fun

_____________________________

"SAVE ME, BARRY!!"

"What the hell are Regionals!?"

"color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color"

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 212
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 25/11/2013 5:35:36 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States
Re: the gun barrell

After the "book end" Gun Barrels in Casino Royale and Quantum, there existed a window to move the gun barrel back up front for the film Mendes and Craig called a "Bond movie with a capital B". They chose not to. For better or worse, the convention is now that the films will end with the gun barrel rather than begin with it. While I might have a fondness for the old style approach, I think now it's too late to change. If you have the gun barrel up front for Bond 24, it's only going to seem disharmonious in the context of Craig's other films. Why one way on one film, and a different way on the next? It draws attention to itself and only makes it seem as if the producers decided putting it at the end was a "wrong" approach and now are taking measures to correct that. If that happens, every time we watch Quantum or Skyfall, we'll think that the gun barrel at the end is a mistake, a flaw in the film. Better to just accept that we have a new convention for the time being. When Craig leaves, moving the gun barrel up front could be a good way to signal that change and differentiate the next actor's tenure. For now though, I think we need to stick with the status quo... which isn't all bad.


What are the advantages? It's a damn punchy way to end a Bond movie, and it's proven to be versatile in application thus far. Whether or not it follows a somber shot of a necklace in the snow, or a rousing line delivery ("With pleasure, M. With pleasure"), it's a great way to give a jolt of energy to the end of a Bond movie, and send audiences out on a high note, a way to remind people that James Bond Will Return.


Now keep in mind I think Mendes was spot on in his praise for the gun barrel being used at the top of the film. He says the moment the gun barrel happens after the studio logos is "like christmas" because in that moment, "anything is possible". This sums up my own feelings on the gun barrel perfectly. Whatever happens next, you know James Bond will be there, and that's exciting.


However the lack of gun barrel up top has opened interesting possibilities that never before existed at the start of a Bond movie.


The gun barrel, when it fades out to the circle wipe, seems to always go to a static or panning establishing shot of a location. The few times this has not been the case (TWINE, when the wipe revealed Bond crossing the street), people have actively complained.


Without the need to make a graceful transition / wipe from the white circle, you open up the possibilities for opening the film. Quantum has an elegant helicopter shot zooming across a lake, and Skyfall has a cool hallway shot of Bond slowly walking into focus. Neither of these openers would have been possible without the elimination of the gun barrel up front. Instead the reveal of Bond (whether with elemental glimpses of his car, or Craig's flinty eyes in Quantum, or Bond materializing before our eyes in Skyfall) now has taken on increased significance without our first image of Bond in the movie being him walking in a tux against a white background.


So I think while we loose a cool tradition, we gain storytelling possibilities (cold opens, Miami Vice theatrical cut style are now an option when they never would have been before). So all in all I think the Craig gun barrel status quo is fine for now.

(in reply to musht)
Post #: 213
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 26/11/2013 10:31:32 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006
trouble is the recent gunbarrel graphics are poor compared to the brosnan era.

(in reply to King of Kafiristan)
Post #: 214
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 26/11/2013 3:16:40 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States
After some video research and frame by frame analysis, I've determined the rankings for Gun Barrel Sequence ballistic accuracy. It turns out that not every Bond hits his mark, so to speak.

The first three Connery films feature a sort of improbable hop and shoot from the hip method from Connery. He points the gun where it needs to go, but it looks like an unlikely way to maximize your chances of hitting the target.

That all changes in Thunderball. He takes the time to drop to one knee, takes aim, and then fires. Very lethal looking. In You Only Live Twice he repeats this maneuver though his leg wobbles. Still though, pretty much dead on target.

I believe that the You Only Live Twice gun barrel footage was reused for Diamonds Are Forever. If not, Connery has an identical leg wobble problem, but still appears at least to shoot straight.

Lazenby shoots true in his one walk in front of the gun barrel.

Here is where it gets interesting: Moore consistently shoots wide and to the right, only pointing his gun dead center after he's already fired his pistol. This is plainly visible on the frame by frame.

In The Spy Who Loved Me, he aims dead center, but I'm not sure he actually fired a round, as I think the "gunshot" exists only as a sound effect - no visible discharge of gasses from the pistol.

Ironically it was not until his final film that he pulled off a convincing trick shot up the famous Bond opening rifle scope.

Dalton got it right his two times, and Brosnan looked like a boss with an impressively crisp Gun Barrel performance in his four outings.

Craig is doing great, and in his only true gun barrel thus far, he is on center and quick on the job. He does however move at a swifter pace than normal in the Skyfall Gun Barrell.

Conclusion: the best Gun Barrell of all time is Pierce Brosnan in Tomorrow Never Dies. Excellent use of the traditional Bond theme. Crisp, stark gun barrell graphics that look modern but still stylized. And a 'turn and shoot' performance of unmatched lethality by Brosnan.

A master class in gun barrell excellence! Mendes, watch and take notes....

< Message edited by King of Kafiristan -- 26/11/2013 3:21:35 PM >

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 215
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 27/11/2013 10:26:10 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006
quote:

ORIGINAL: King of Kafiristan

After some video research and frame by frame analysis, I've determined the rankings for Gun Barrel Sequence ballistic accuracy. It turns out that not every Bond hits his mark, so to speak.

The first three Connery films feature a sort of improbable hop and shoot from the hip method from Connery. He points the gun where it needs to go, but it looks like an unlikely way to maximize your chances of hitting the target.

That all changes in Thunderball. He takes the time to drop to one knee, takes aim, and then fires. Very lethal looking. In You Only Live Twice he repeats this maneuver though his leg wobbles. Still though, pretty much dead on target.

I believe that the You Only Live Twice gun barrel footage was reused for Diamonds Are Forever. If not, Connery has an identical leg wobble problem, but still appears at least to shoot straight.

Lazenby shoots true in his one walk in front of the gun barrel.

Here is where it gets interesting: Moore consistently shoots wide and to the right, only pointing his gun dead center after he's already fired his pistol. This is plainly visible on the frame by frame.

In The Spy Who Loved Me, he aims dead center, but I'm not sure he actually fired a round, as I think the "gunshot" exists only as a sound effect - no visible discharge of gasses from the pistol.

Ironically it was not until his final film that he pulled off a convincing trick shot up the famous Bond opening rifle scope.

Dalton got it right his two times, and Brosnan looked like a boss with an impressively crisp Gun Barrel performance in his four outings.

Craig is doing great, and in his only true gun barrel thus far, he is on center and quick on the job. He does however move at a swifter pace than normal in the Skyfall Gun Barrell.

Conclusion: the best Gun Barrell of all time is Pierce Brosnan in Tomorrow Never Dies. Excellent use of the traditional Bond theme. Crisp, stark gun barrell graphics that look modern but still stylized. And a 'turn and shoot' performance of unmatched lethality by Brosnan.

A master class in gun barrell excellence! Mendes, watch and take notes....


it was stuntman bob simmons walk/turn/shoot in the gunbarrel shot for the 1st 3 connery films.

< Message edited by spark1 -- 28/11/2013 10:34:07 AM >

(in reply to King of Kafiristan)
Post #: 216
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 29/11/2013 6:34:23 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States
Good point.

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 217
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 29/11/2013 9:11:10 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
News just in: the pre credits action scene of Bond 24 will take place at a dole queue since Bond having stupidly gotten M killed at the climax of of Skyfall by taking her to an isolated region of scotland with no backup besides an old age pensioner to take on an army of heavily armed mercenaries, was dishonourably discharged from MI6.

Bond is now actively sending out cvs in the hope of becoming a bouncer.

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(in reply to King of Kafiristan)
Post #: 218
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 29/11/2013 10:03:43 PM   
rich


Posts: 5192
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
Eon can't hear the sound of your broken record over the sound of the money they're counting. Serious question, what kind of pills are you on? Actually not joking here. I hate a lot of movies but I don't have the time to do it so often.

quote:

Without the need to make a graceful transition / wipe from the white circle, you open up the possibilities for opening the film. Quantum has an elegant helicopter shot zooming across a lake, and Skyfall has a cool hallway shot of Bond slowly walking into focus. Neither of these openers would have been possible without the elimination of the gun barrel up front. Instead the reveal of Bond (whether with elemental glimpses of his car, or Craig's flinty eyes in Quantum, or Bond materializing before our eyes in Skyfall) now has taken on increased significance without our first image of Bond in the movie being him walking in a tux against a white background.


Or you ... could just have them after the gun barrel with no difference to any of those scenes...

As long as the stop the CG being so rubbish it should be back at the start. The Brosnan era ones that replicated the original Dr No style barrel rifling and reflection in 3D was fine. Having it at the end is just another weird compromise that would be better off being lost altogether if they don't want to put it in the right place.

< Message edited by rich -- 29/11/2013 10:04:09 PM >


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Post #: 219
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 29/11/2013 10:18:58 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

Eon can't hear the sound of your broken record over the sound of the money they're counting. Serious question, what kind of pills are you on? Actually not joking here. I hate a lot of movies but I don't have the time to do it so often.

quote:

Without the need to make a graceful transition / wipe from the white circle, you open up the possibilities for opening the film. Quantum has an elegant helicopter shot zooming across a lake, and Skyfall has a cool hallway shot of Bond slowly walking into focus. Neither of these openers would have been possible without the elimination of the gun barrel up front. Instead the reveal of Bond (whether with elemental glimpses of his car, or Craig's flinty eyes in Quantum, or Bond materializing before our eyes in Skyfall) now has taken on increased significance without our first image of Bond in the movie being him walking in a tux against a white background.


Or you ... could just have them after the gun barrel with no difference to any of those scenes...

As long as the stop the CG being so rubbish it should be back at the start. The Brosnan era ones that replicated the original Dr No style barrel rifling and reflection in 3D was fine. Having it at the end is just another weird compromise that would be better off being lost altogether if they don't want to put it in the right place.


Sorry.I forgot its considered unpatriotic to actually point out how stupid and nonsensical the plot of Skyfall was.Carry on.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to rich)
Post #: 220
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 29/11/2013 11:52:47 PM   
musht


Posts: 1883
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland
Aw shit!! I agree with Cool Breeze about Skyfall ...

What's the protocol in this situation?

_____________________________

"SAVE ME, BARRY!!"

"What the hell are Regionals!?"

"color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color"

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 221
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 30/11/2013 1:09:50 AM   
rich


Posts: 5192
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
Well I didn't mention Skyfall itself or flag waving; just box office. It literally made over a billion dollars. Personally I thought it was mid level / okay Bond series entry and I'll be happier when the tone and quality reaches a more consistent level. Is it Strattera?

< Message edited by rich -- 30/11/2013 1:10:25 AM >


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Post #: 222
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 30/11/2013 6:44:24 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

Eon can't hear the sound of your broken record over the sound of the money they're counting. Serious question, what kind of pills are you on? Actually not joking here. I hate a lot of movies but I don't have the time to do it so often.

quote:

Without the need to make a graceful transition / wipe from the white circle, you open up the possibilities for opening the film. Quantum has an elegant helicopter shot zooming across a lake, and Skyfall has a cool hallway shot of Bond slowly walking into focus. Neither of these openers would have been possible without the elimination of the gun barrel up front. Instead the reveal of Bond (whether with elemental glimpses of his car, or Craig's flinty eyes in Quantum, or Bond materializing before our eyes in Skyfall) now has taken on increased significance without our first image of Bond in the movie being him walking in a tux against a white background.


Or you ... could just have them after the gun barrel with no difference to any of those scenes...

As long as the stop the CG being so rubbish it should be back at the start. The Brosnan era ones that replicated the original Dr No style barrel rifling and reflection in 3D was fine. Having it at the end is just another weird compromise that would be better off being lost altogether if they don't want to put it in the right place.



I'm afraid I disagree. There is a big difference between the film's score fading in after the MGM logos, and the strange opening zooms over the lake, than if we'd had the Bond theme, then the zoom and the score. It wouldn't have worked. Same as if our first glimpse of Bond was in the gun barrell and THEN he slowly materializes in a hallway?

It just doesn't work in my opinion. At all.

(in reply to rich)
Post #: 223
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 30/11/2013 6:45:14 PM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

Eon can't hear the sound of your broken record over the sound of the money they're counting. Serious question, what kind of pills are you on? Actually not joking here. I hate a lot of movies but I don't have the time to do it so often.

quote:

Without the need to make a graceful transition / wipe from the white circle, you open up the possibilities for opening the film. Quantum has an elegant helicopter shot zooming across a lake, and Skyfall has a cool hallway shot of Bond slowly walking into focus. Neither of these openers would have been possible without the elimination of the gun barrel up front. Instead the reveal of Bond (whether with elemental glimpses of his car, or Craig's flinty eyes in Quantum, or Bond materializing before our eyes in Skyfall) now has taken on increased significance without our first image of Bond in the movie being him walking in a tux against a white background.


Or you ... could just have them after the gun barrel with no difference to any of those scenes...

As long as the stop the CG being so rubbish it should be back at the start. The Brosnan era ones that replicated the original Dr No style barrel rifling and reflection in 3D was fine. Having it at the end is just another weird compromise that would be better off being lost altogether if they don't want to put it in the right place.


Sorry.I forgot its considered unpatriotic to actually point out how stupid and nonsensical the plot of Skyfall was.Carry on.


Skyfall is the highest grossing film in UK history, so it's best to show some respect - especially here on Empire of all places.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 224
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 30/11/2013 7:34:00 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7939
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Cool Breeze just acts like a little emo bitch when no-one agrees with him. Pay him no mind.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to King of Kafiristan)
Post #: 225
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 30/11/2013 9:16:10 PM   
Rebel scum


Posts: 3483
Joined: 2/1/2006
I reckon for the next Bond the gunbarrel should just appear randomly at the most inopportune moments.
For example:

"Who is the leader of Quantum?"
"Why 007, isn't it obvious? It's always been
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA

"So your name's Alotta Fajina eh? How did you get that name?"
"Would you like me to show you?"
"Of cour
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA

"I miss Roger Moore."
"Well then why don't you go fu
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA

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(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 226
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 30/11/2013 9:19:03 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7939
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel scum

I reckon for the next Bond the gunbarrel should just appear randomly at the most inopportune moments.
For example:

"Who is the leader of Quantum?"
"Why 007, isn't it obvious? It's always been
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA

"So your name's Alotta Fajina eh? How did you get that name?"
"Would you like me to show you?"
"Of cour
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA

"I miss Roger Moore."
"Well then why don't you go fu
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA




I want Bond fucking a horse and giving Q a handjob within the first five minutes of the new film. The fanboy meltdown would be seismic.

_____________________________

"I am a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist and a theoretical philosopher. But above all, I am a man, a hopelessly inquisitive man, just like you."

Films watched in 2013

(in reply to Rebel scum)
Post #: 227
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 5/12/2013 2:54:16 PM   
Emyr Thy King


Posts: 2180
Joined: 13/4/2006
From: The Grid
I'd rather keep Equus away from Bond.

As for the gunbarrel, I loved the CR approach. Put it at the beginning of the film as part of the overall action rather than a separate cod-piece so to speak.

Quantum really ought to come back. Mr. White as a returning antagonist would be great and perhaps we can see what happened to Guy Haines.

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(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 228
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 6/12/2013 2:21:09 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006
a gunbarrel without the bond theme, similar to the DR opener, would have suited the start of QoS and SF.





< Message edited by spark1 -- 6/12/2013 2:22:10 PM >

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 229
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 7/12/2013 1:29:14 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006
a bit like this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVLRsQuTebA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgjK3cYK-Y


q opens new q stage at pinewood-


http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/event_pinewood_q_stage_opening.php3?t=&s=&id=03609



(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 230
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 9/12/2013 10:28:41 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006
gunbarrels? love 'em-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJPAW1PJ13E

especially the variations on the bond theme tune.




< Message edited by spark1 -- 9/12/2013 2:18:55 PM >

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 231
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 12/12/2013 12:07:44 AM   
King of Kafiristan

 

Posts: 1004
Joined: 14/1/2012
From: The States

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

a bit like this-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVLRsQuTebA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzgjK3cYK-Y


q opens new q stage at pinewood-


http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/event_pinewood_q_stage_opening.php3?t=&s=&id=03609





He looks pretty cheerful with all that confetti. Good on him!

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 232
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 12/12/2013 12:35:09 AM   
rich


Posts: 5192
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebel scum

I reckon for the next Bond the gunbarrel should just appear randomly at the most inopportune moments.
For example:

"Who is the leader of Quantum?"
"Why 007, isn't it obvious? It's always been
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA

"So your name's Alotta Fajina eh? How did you get that name?"
"Would you like me to show you?"
"Of cour
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA

"I miss Roger Moore."
"Well then why don't you go fu
DA DA DUM DA DA DUM DA DA DADADADA




_____________________________

Meanwhile...

(in reply to Rebel scum)
Post #: 233
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 14/12/2013 1:28:42 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006
it better be called 'property of a lady'.

(in reply to MonsterCat)
Post #: 234
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 14/12/2013 1:36:44 PM   
TomTron


Posts: 874
Joined: 2/10/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: spark1

it better be called 'property of a lady'.


It better not be!

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 235
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 14/12/2013 1:52:40 PM   
rich


Posts: 5192
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe
They already took that in the plot for Octopussy. Incredibly unlikely that another Fleming title will be used now.

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Post #: 236
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 16/12/2013 10:30:40 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich

They already took that in the plot for Octopussy. Incredibly unlikely that another Fleming title will be used now.



no, the title will be a peg to hang a new plot for bond 24.

fleming did the best titles so they should use them when they can.

(in reply to rich)
Post #: 237
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 16/12/2013 12:34:17 PM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1896
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
So maybe, during the novels there is the occasional turn of phrase that can act as title/plot inspiration and the makers can still technically claim the 'inspired by fleming' thing. It's not as if many of the films inspired by the actual stories followed them all that closely

(in reply to spark1)
Post #: 238
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 17/12/2013 10:22:23 AM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006
if not 'property' then at least go for 'risico'.

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 239
RE: Bond 24 - 2014 - 17/12/2013 1:54:47 PM   
spark1

 

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18/11/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

So maybe, during the novels there is the occasional turn of phrase that can act as title/plot inspiration and the makers can still technically claim the 'inspired by fleming' thing. It's not as if many of the films inspired by the actual stories followed them all that closely



'licence to kill' and DAD use elements from bond novels that were adapted as films-leiter being shark bait in LTK unlike the felix in the actual LALD movie.

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 240
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