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RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen?

 
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RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 8/5/2013 3:55:03 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20120
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloud Cuckoo

I'd give the prize to my sister, though, for having the Star Trek symbol tattooed on the nape of her neck (long before the 'reboot'). I swear I was adopted.


Unrelated, but say, is your sister single?

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Cloud Cuckoo)
Post #: 91
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 8/5/2013 3:57:19 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20120
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield
Oh, oh, also CC, the Attack of the Clones five star review by Mr Chris Hewitt has gone down in infamy over the last few years. I call it Hewitt's Law. Just like Godwin's Law states that all arguments online eventually lead to one party likening the other to the Nazis, thereby essentially losing the argument, so Hewitt's Law states that all arguments on the forum eventually lead to somebody mentioning the five star Attack of the Clones review. And thereby losing the argument.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 92
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 12:29:29 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4430
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
Is it still on the site somewhere?

_____________________________

@Jonny_C85

My Movie Blog | My Other Various Rantings Blog

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 93
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 12:32:37 PM   
jcthefirst


Posts: 4430
Joined: 6/10/2005
From: Bangor
Found it. Sort of.

http://www.empireonline.com/forum/tm.asp?m=3414735

_____________________________

@Jonny_C85

My Movie Blog | My Other Various Rantings Blog

(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 94
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 2:53:27 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to jcthefirst)
Post #: 95
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 6:47:07 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 96
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 6:53:09 PM   
Shifty Bench

 

Posts: 15403
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Land of the Scots

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.



Lucas still told him what Lucas wanted in it and what Lucas didn't, though. Lucas' character, Lucas' production company, Lucas' rules.

I blame both of them.

_____________________________

Extended Edition Podcast- Episode 46:Threads Of Destiny (Star Wars Fan Film)

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 97
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 7:02:37 PM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4409
Joined: 5/2/2012
See,I'm not really bothered by Indy 4 because in most ways I dont associate it to the other more better Indy films.
And even though its directed by the same creators it oddly doesn't fit.Everything about it is so alien (no pun intended) compared to the others,from the way it is shot and how the characters perform that it ,in most ways, feels totally unassociated to its predecessors.

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 98
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 8:48:52 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
On release I never had issue with Indy 4, I knew it was flawed and was clearly the weakest of the movies, but I still enjoyed it. I've done a rewatch of the four films just this week, with Indy 4 finishing it up last night - and I did think about this thread during it!

See, I actually really kinda enjoyed it. Yea Ford just doesnt have the capabilities to pull off the stunt work, but Spielberg for the most part hides it well. I loved the Area 51 opening (despite a few stumbles as the action kicks in) and never got pissed by the Nuke/Fridge. Even after Mutt shows up I was still entertained and was findig myself surprised at how closely the movie follows the formula of the previous three. It falters a little after Indy and Mutt are captured and Marion returns (Karen Allen is fucking awful for the remainder) but it certainly picks up a second wind before a second lull for the finale. I didnt hate the finale, and i certainly dot think the i troduction of aliens spoiledthigs, even though I do wish they had held it back and not actual gone as far as showing an actual (piss poor) CGI alien - keeping it with the spooky crystal skeletons wouldve been fine. I think the finale is a little over crowded, and Ray Winstone wears out his welcome within five minutes of Area 51, so having him return for the big finale sucks arse hair. But, I think I've kinda reappraised it, after liking it, being a little hatefull, finding it 'okay', I've now come full circle to actually really enjoying it.

There are other problems though, mostly I found from the oddly soft look of the movie, and the way it's shot makes it visually very different to the others, but overall it sits quite well against the others.

_____________________________

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(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 99
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 8:50:32 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield
My apologies for the God awful spelling. iPhone + Fat Fingers = Shitty spelling.

_____________________________

"I've got an idea for a special infiltration technique. It involves draining a man of his blood and replacing it with Tizer."

(in reply to porntrooper)
Post #: 100
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 9:34:09 PM   
rich


Posts: 5202
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

quote:

ORIGINAL: OPEN YOUR EYES

See,I'm not really bothered by Indy 4 because in most ways I dont associate it to the other more better Indy films.
And even though its directed by the same creators it oddly doesn't fit.Everything about it is so alien (no pun intended) compared to the others,from the way it is shot and how the characters perform that it ,in most ways, feels totally unassociated to its predecessors.


It's so lifeless I can barely remember it now. If it wasn't for Harrison Ford in that outfit I'd have no idea this was part of the same series or directed by the same guy. Just so empty.

quote:

Found it. Sort of.

http://www.empireonline.com/forum/tm.asp?m=3414735


OH dear.

_____________________________

Meanwhile...

(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 101
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 9/5/2013 10:11:16 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

< Message edited by Cool Breeze -- 9/5/2013 10:12:47 PM >


_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 102
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 9:34:42 AM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 103
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 9:47:20 AM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20120
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


I do enjoy that our largely secular society has no issue with Indy finding biblical objects with genuine power - the ark of the covenant, the holy grail - or indeed objects from other religions - sacred stones - but balk at the idea of aliens.

Indies 1-3 were set in the 30s, when adventure serials were all the rage. Indy 4 was set in the 50s, when alien invasion was a growing trend in B movies, to mirror the threat of Russian invasion. Aliens in a 50s-set Indy makes PERFECT sense. And, what's more, to those who place no stock in the plausibility of a box with some stone tablets in it being able to melt the face off Nazis; or a cup which some guy used at a meal that one time being able to magically heal wounds, I really don't get why aliens landing on earth thousands of years ago is any less believable.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 104
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 9:50:40 AM   
UTB


Posts: 9999
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


I do enjoy that our largely secular society has no issue with Indy finding biblical objects with genuine power - the ark of the covenant, the holy grail - or indeed objects from other religions - sacred stones - but balk at the idea of aliens.

Indies 1-3 were set in the 30s, when adventure serials were all the rage. Indy 4 was set in the 50s, when alien invasion was a growing trend in B movies, to mirror the threat of Russian invasion. Aliens in a 50s-set Indy makes PERFECT sense. And, what's more, to those who place no stock in the plausibility of a box with some stone tablets in it being able to melt the face off Nazis; or a cup which some guy used at a meal that one time being able to magically heal wounds, I really don't get why aliens landing on earth thousands of years ago is any less believable.


This has ALWAYS bugged the fuck out of me. A thousand year old man guarding the cup of Jesus fucking Christ is perfectly acceptable (and containing water that heals bullet wounds) but aliens, oooh suddenly its all too unbelievable. Same shit with the fridge.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 105
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 10:14:27 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


I do enjoy that our largely secular society has no issue with Indy finding biblical objects with genuine power - the ark of the covenant, the holy grail - or indeed objects from other religions - sacred stones - but balk at the idea of aliens.

Indies 1-3 were set in the 30s, when adventure serials were all the rage. Indy 4 was set in the 50s, when alien invasion was a growing trend in B movies, to mirror the threat of Russian invasion. Aliens in a 50s-set Indy makes PERFECT sense. And, what's more, to those who place no stock in the plausibility of a box with some stone tablets in it being able to melt the face off Nazis; or a cup which some guy used at a meal that one time being able to magically heal wounds, I really don't get why aliens landing on earth thousands of years ago is any less believable.


Thank you! Those are my thoughts exactly.

In fact, other than the awful CGI in some points, the fridge and the monkeys, I don't see what everyone's problem was. It's an enjoyable film that sits quite well against the better of the original films (Raiders and Crusade, though obviously not as good as those) which, like you said, had a plot which fit perfectly in the era they were set in, and is no less plausible than what went into those.

And its lack of irritating Chinese stereotype child, and woman whose entire contribution to the movie was terrified screaming make it far and away better than the shit that was Temple Of Doom.

(in reply to homersimpson_esq)
Post #: 106
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 10:22:14 AM   
FoximusPrime

 

Posts: 407
Joined: 11/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shifty Bench


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.



Lucas still told him what Lucas wanted in it and what Lucas didn't, though. Lucas' character, Lucas' production company, Lucas' rules.

I blame both of them.


I'd like to think that's exactly how Lucas told the 'Berg, much like a pro-wrestler:

Spielberg: "Hi George, so what are we doing for Indy 4?"
Lucas: "Well Steven, Lucas wants to include aliens, but Lucas doesn't want your standard aliens - Lucas wants inter-dimensional aliens. This is Lucas' character, and Lucas calls the real shots around here."



_____________________________

Spoiler colour: #F1F1F1

(in reply to Shifty Bench)
Post #: 107
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 10:23:30 AM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


I do enjoy that our largely secular society has no issue with Indy finding biblical objects with genuine power - the ark of the covenant, the holy grail - or indeed objects from other religions - sacred stones - but balk at the idea of aliens.

Indies 1-3 were set in the 30s, when adventure serials were all the rage. Indy 4 was set in the 50s, when alien invasion was a growing trend in B movies, to mirror the threat of Russian invasion. Aliens in a 50s-set Indy makes PERFECT sense. And, what's more, to those who place no stock in the plausibility of a box with some stone tablets in it being able to melt the face off Nazis; or a cup which some guy used at a meal that one time being able to magically heal wounds, I really don't get why aliens landing on earth thousands of years ago is any less believable.


This has ALWAYS bugged the fuck out of me. A thousand year old man guarding the cup of Jesus fucking Christ is perfectly acceptable (and containing water that heals bullet wounds) but aliens, oooh suddenly its all too unbelievable. Same shit with the fridge.

Alright, calm down, people. Don't shoot me.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree with you about the whole fuss over the fridge thing (this has annoyed me to the point of wanting to punch a fucking hole in the wall). I was kinda harsh saying that aliens and Indy should NEVER be together, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that it didn't work in the movie because Spielberg just wasn't comfortable with the idea and it was pretty much only Lucas that liked it, and that's just not how a movie should be made. A director needs to believe in the story he's telling.

Look at Spider-Man 3. Shall we bring Venom into things? Sure, why wouldn't he work in a Spider-Man movie? Well, because the director didn't want to bloody use him, that's why.

(in reply to UTB)
Post #: 108
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 10:27:03 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: UTB


quote:

ORIGINAL: homersimpson_esq


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


I do enjoy that our largely secular society has no issue with Indy finding biblical objects with genuine power - the ark of the covenant, the holy grail - or indeed objects from other religions - sacred stones - but balk at the idea of aliens.

Indies 1-3 were set in the 30s, when adventure serials were all the rage. Indy 4 was set in the 50s, when alien invasion was a growing trend in B movies, to mirror the threat of Russian invasion. Aliens in a 50s-set Indy makes PERFECT sense. And, what's more, to those who place no stock in the plausibility of a box with some stone tablets in it being able to melt the face off Nazis; or a cup which some guy used at a meal that one time being able to magically heal wounds, I really don't get why aliens landing on earth thousands of years ago is any less believable.


This has ALWAYS bugged the fuck out of me. A thousand year old man guarding the cup of Jesus fucking Christ is perfectly acceptable (and containing water that heals bullet wounds) but aliens, oooh suddenly its all too unbelievable. Same shit with the fridge.

Alright, calm down, people. Don't shoot me.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree with you about the whole fuss over the fridge thing (this has annoyed me to the point of wanting to punch a fucking hole in the wall). I was kinda harsh saying that aliens and Indy should NEVER be together, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that it didn't work in the movie because Spielberg just wasn't comfortable with the idea and it was pretty much only Lucas that liked it, and that's just not how a movie should be made. A director needs to believe in the story he's telling.

Look at Spider-Man 3. Shall we bring Venom into things? Sure, why wouldn't he work in a Spider-Man movie? Well, because the director didn't want to bloody use him, that's why.


That I agree with... mainly due to Sam Raimi's films being mostly based on the Silver Age comics, and Venom was a character that was created in the 90's. 90's comic book characters in a Silver Age setting don't work.

In fact... most 90's comic book characters don't seem to work in any setting unless they're completely reworked like Bane.

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 109
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 10:56:58 AM   
Gimli The Dwarf


Posts: 78134
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Central Park Zoo
Part of the problem for me with aliens in Indy 4 is that the reveal never really captured the sense of awe, wonder or distress for either Indy or the audience, well, me at least. Raiders and Crusade had such things in spades - The Map room, the opening of the Ark, the leap of faith, even wondering if the right Grail had been selected, there's genuine emotional power there and I always seem to get the idea that I'm feeling the same as the characters on screen. Maybe such scenes worked because the items involved are fairly rare on the big screen, but we get aliens in 10 films a year and have done for decades, we've been there and done that. Even then though, we know that the 'Berg can deliver with goods when it comes to ETs, he just failed with Indy 4.

_____________________________

So, sir, we let him have it right up! And I have to report, sir, he did not like it, sir.

Fellow scientists, poindexters, geeks.

Yeah, Mr. White! Yeah, science!

Much more better!

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 110
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 11:18:49 AM   
OPEN YOUR EYES

 

Posts: 4409
Joined: 5/2/2012

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gimli The Dwarf

Part of the problem for me with aliens in Indy 4 is that the reveal never really captured the sense of awe, wonder or distress for either Indy or the audience, well, me at least. Raiders and Crusade had such things in spades - The Map room, the opening of the Ark, the leap of faith, even wondering if the right Grail had been selected, there's genuine emotional power there and I always seem to get the idea that I'm feeling the same as the characters on screen. Maybe such scenes worked because the items involved are fairly rare on the big screen, but we get aliens in 10 films a year and have done for decades, we've been there and done that. Even then though, we know that the 'Berg can deliver with goods when it comes to ETs, he just failed with Indy 4.


Yep,pretty much agree.

Personally my problem concerning the Alien angle is how the story was told rather than me accepting the idea.

(in reply to Gimli The Dwarf)
Post #: 111
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 12:08:44 PM   
Dave Oz

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 12/5/2010
Watching the behind the scenes on Indy 4, and you get the impression from Spielberg that he's going through the motions for his friend (Lucas). There's no desire on Spielberg's part to seriously question Lucas' decisions. It's like "Okay George, whatever makes you happy". Maybe it's me but Spielberg actually seems to be a bit embarrassed about the whole thing even whilst shooting the film, lol.

Also, I have no issue with the aliens at all. The problem as I see it was the set-pieces (action and plot) just didn't hit their respective marks like the previous Indy movies did. The formula wasn't followed, either deliberately or not, and the film suffered as a result.

There's a video by a guy from Red Letter Media who details the problems with Indy 4 in a much lucid way than I ever could.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull/


(in reply to OPEN YOUR EYES)
Post #: 112
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 1:02:32 PM   
porntrooper

 

Posts: 2616
Joined: 6/9/2006
From: Sheffield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave Oz

Watching the behind the scenes on Indy 4, and you get the impression from Spielberg that he's going through the motions for his friend (Lucas). There's no desire on Spielberg's part to seriously question Lucas' decisions. It's like "Okay George, whatever makes you happy". Maybe it's me but Spielberg actually seems to be a bit embarrassed about the whole thing even whilst shooting the film, lol.

Also, I have no issue with the aliens at all. The problem as I see it was the set-pieces (action and plot) just didn't hit their respective marks like the previous Indy movies did. The formula wasn't followed, either deliberately or not, and the film suffered as a result.

There's a video by a guy from Red Letter Media who details the problems with Indy 4 in a much lucid way than I ever could.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/indiana-jones-and-the-kingdom-of-the-crystal-skull/




Indy 4 has problems, occasionally big ones, but I don't think it's due to the lack of adherence to the series' formula. I've put some thoughts further up the page, and my main criticism of the films comes with the second act lull, over crowded finale, shitty performances from Winstone and Allen, and the fact that they push the Alien presence beyond where it needed to be.

After re-watching it this week, I really loved the idea of the aliens and the crystal skulls, and in that finale when they find the alien skeletons and they start moving as the final skull is returned, it starts out being really quite creepy and intriguing, but they tip over the mark by having the aliens regenerate and the horrid CG close up of the aliens face that it takes all the mystery away that they estanlish in the few shots earlier. If they had kept it back a little, they may have had a finale on par with Last Crusade at least. The fact that Winstone is involved during that finale sucks ass, he shouldve been written out long before. But there is, to a point some really great moments of wonder in the finale, and the final shot of the ship rising up is pretty great.

As for the overall movie and how it sticks to the formula, I was actually really surprised at how closely it felt to the others having watched all four this very week. Crystal Skull has some great moments and action beats, the opening in Area 51 in pretty great, despite some creaky moments from Ford clearly showing his age. But Spielberg actually hides it really well during that opening and it's really good. The fist fight in the lab below Area 51 is spot on and wouldn't have looked out of place in any other Indy movie. Likewise the following plot set up, establishing the villains and introduction of Mutt and laying the groundwork for the macguffin all work and follow the tried and tested formula of the others. The bike chase through the campus is great, again it follows the formula and is that second action set piece after the plot is established (similar to the bar shoot out in Raiders, or the speed boat chase in Crusade) and gets Indy into the action proper and sets him out into the wider world. We get some cool exploration following that and a return to the creepy tombs and insect filled ickyness that Crusade missed, so the tomb in Indy 4 feels more reminiscent of Temple of Doom. The second act lull as they're kidnapped is where things start to fall apart for me, but it still follows the Indy formula, despite having more god awful acting and allowing Indy to become more a passenger in his own movie (for the second time). The next big action set piece also has moments of real quality, including a great Indy fist fight. On the flip side it does feature a big low point too.... fucking monkeys.

Honestly, I think, depsite it's flaws, Indy 4 holds up pretty well. And I dunno if it's because the Big Blockbusters were used to these days are all superheros, but watching Indy 4 felt like a good call back and felt like a refreshing change of pace. As good as the first 3? No way, but I actually found myself enjoying it quite a lot. If you have really issues with the film, a re-watch and re-visit probably wont help, but if you thought it was merely okay, and havent seen it in a while, I'd definately recommend a revisit.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Dave Oz)
Post #: 113
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 1:29:39 PM   
Cool Breeze


Posts: 2362
Joined: 9/11/2011
From: The Internet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

I do seem to recall interdimensional beings making an appearance though

By the way, Spielberg admitted in an interview with Empire last year that the nuclear bomb proof fridge scene was '' my silly idea ''.

_____________________________

'' Iv played Oskar Schindler, Michael Collins, Rob Roy Mcgregor, even ZEUS for gods sake! No one is going to believe me to be a green grocer! ''

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 114
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 3:08:01 PM   
Dave Oz

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 12/5/2010
@ porntrooper - Winstone's character was botched IMO. His whole "Is he a bad guy, double-agent, or triple-agent" should've been handled much better than it was. There simply isn't any suspense or any reason for us to wonder where his true allegiances lie when he basically comes clean about it all in the first 20 minutes. I don't blame Spielberg or Lucas for that, but instead whichever committee member wrote the script.

I think maybe you're right about Indy 4 following the Indy series' formula. I would, however, add that maybe the makers messed-up a bit, and didn't follow the formula as effectively as in the previous 3 movies.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 115
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 3:31:37 PM   
homersimpson_esq


Posts: 20120
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Springfield

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

I do seem to recall interdimensional beings making an appearance though

By the way, Spielberg admitted in an interview with Empire last year that the nuclear bomb proof fridge scene was '' my silly idea ''.


Semantics. Aliens in this instance are defined as "not of this earth". Ergo. aliens. Just like vampire films that don't call the vampires vampires are still vampire films.

_____________________________

That deep-browed Homer ruled as his demesne.


Bristol Bad Film Club
A place where movie fans can come and behold some of the most awful films ever put to celluloid.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 116
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 6:37:40 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cool Breeze

The Spielberg fanboys who blame George Lucas for Indy 4's failings...despite the fact that Lucas neither wrote nor directed it.

And Indy 4 would have been an even worse film if they went with Darabonts script.

Despite how it may seem, I've never excused Spielberg for how the movie turned out. Visually, he phoned it in. But a good movie needs a good story, and GL's hard-on for aliens is what fucked it up from the beginning.

I admit it's a definite failure on Spielberg's part, but I'm still angrier at Lucas about it. I can't help it, man!


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

And there was nothing wrong with the story, just the execution so I blame Spielberg and David Koepp.

Nothing wrong with the story? I'm sorry but aliens and Indiana Jones should never share the same story in my opinion. I admit that I liked the crystal skull element, but just have it that the Russians are looking for the skull for mind control; lose the aliens, because they're just not needed.

Come on, you don't blame Lucas at all? I'm not saying Spielberg's hands are clean here; they're both to blame. Lucas for thinking of, and being so adamant about, the fucking aliens, and Spielberg for making the movie when he didn't like, or believe in, the story.


There are no aliens in Indy 4.

I do seem to recall interdimensional beings making an appearance though

By the way, Spielberg admitted in an interview with Empire last year that the nuclear bomb proof fridge scene was '' my silly idea ''.

Oh, pardon my ignorance. They all look alike

As I've hinted at earlier in the thread, I actually didn't mind the fridge scene, especially considering that it's no less plausible than certain moments in the original three which, again, have been mentioned before in the thread. I didn't know that it was his idea though, so thanks for the bit of trivia.

(in reply to Cool Breeze)
Post #: 117
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 8:55:57 PM   
musht


Posts: 1884
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland
The thing I don't understand about the aliens criticism is that Raiders and Crusade contain relgious nonsense which is far more unrealistic and is completely bias towards christianity (I still think they're great movies). Skull is still a weak film but the monkeys are far more offensive to me than the aliens

_____________________________

"SAVE ME, BARRY!!"

"What the hell are Regionals!?"

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(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 118
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 11:31:49 PM   
rich


Posts: 5202
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

The thing I don't understand about the aliens criticism is that Raiders and Crusade contain relgious nonsense which is far more unrealistic and is completely bias towards christianity (I still think they're great movies). Skull is still a weak film but the monkeys are far more offensive to me than the aliens


The monkeys or the aliens, it doesn't matter they're just easy targets to criticize - if it was a good movie people would probably not care.

_____________________________

Meanwhile...

(in reply to musht)
Post #: 119
RE: Most ridiculous display of fanboy-ism you've seen? - 10/5/2013 11:50:49 PM   
musht


Posts: 1884
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich


quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

The thing I don't understand about the aliens criticism is that Raiders and Crusade contain relgious nonsense which is far more unrealistic and is completely bias towards christianity (I still think they're great movies). Skull is still a weak film but the monkeys are far more offensive to me than the aliens


The monkeys or the aliens, it doesn't matter they're just easy targets to criticize - if it was a good movie people would probably not care.

I get that, I just find it odd that people find aliens more implausible than God, the Holy Grail, and its immortal guardian

_____________________________

"SAVE ME, BARRY!!"

"What the hell are Regionals!?"

"color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color"

(in reply to rich)
Post #: 120
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