quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.

Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?

And you'll never guess where exactly that pain is located...

Then there's Star Wars, of course. Christ, where do you start? Flash Gordon, King Arthur, Kurosawa, John Ford, The Dam Busters, The Wizard of Oz, Laurel and Hardy, etc, etc, etc. Minor talents plagiarise, great artists steal.

And what goes around comes around. Star Wars in turn became one of the most influential films of all time in its own right. No Star Wars, no science fiction boom of the 70s and 80s. That means no Star Wars, no Star Trek movies to recently re-boot, no Alien and no Blade Runner (which, ouroboros-style, clearly influenced the Star Wars prequels, especially Episode II). And no Star Wars, no ILM, no effects and CG revolution which means no LOTR, Titanic or Avatar either. Or Life of Pi. Indeed, without Star Wars we probably wouldn't have Ridley Scott, James Cameron or David Fincher. Not as we know them, certainly. Before Star Wars, Scott's next film would have been Tristan and Isolde, not Alien. Fincher started as a teen at ILM (he's credited on Return of the Jedi and Temple of Doom) and, by his own admission, Cameron would still be driving a truck!

(And by popularising the work of Joseph Campbell, Star Wars established the "hero's journey" template slavishly adhered to by The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar. And having influenced The Dark Knight Trilogy as well, Joseph Campbell has also indirectly influenced Skyfall which emphasises that like Bruce Wayne, Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, James Bond is also an orphan with serious dead parent issues!)

About the only film series anywhere near as culturally influential as Star Wars is James Bond who single-handedly inspired the whole super-spy sub-genre which is still with us today in the form of Mission: Impossible and Bourne. Bond also inspired Leone's spaghetti westerns (just look at the title sequences!), Indiana Jones (it wasn't a coincidence that Indy's dad was James Bond) and Star Wars, of course. While Bond in turn has been influenced over the years by, among other things, blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), chop-socky (The Man With The Golden Gun) and - yup, you guessed it - Star Wars (Moonraker). And on and on it goes. Bond inspired Bourne who inspired Bond.

Yours windily...

(I can't believe I missed High Noon, BTW. Yet another obvious influence on Skyfall's climax. The thieving bastard!)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

Daniel Craig shows once again that he is Ian Fleming's 007 through and through (although I still prefer the cinematic Bond of Connery, to those who were thinking of me as a pretentious twat), Sam Mendes proves to be an inspired choice for director, Javier Bardem is instantly one of the greatest Bond villains ever, not to mention the entire cast is sublime, and the script is wonderfully sharp. However, the real show stealer is Roger Deakins' stunning cinematography which was jaw-dropping on the big screen, not to mention on the terrific blu-ray (if he doesn't win the Oscar this year, I'm going to lose my mind). 9/10 for me. Not my favourite Bond flick but definitely in my top five. Fantastic movie.

But, I wish I could have made a bet that most of the people on this thread would tear the movie apart. After all, as is the case with Nolan and Spielberg, anything that is popular in these times is immediately unpopular. Such is the case with this current wave on the Internet of people who talk about plot holes as if they are a serious flaw in a movie's quality. And boy do they love to throw around the word "overrated".

If you honestly just didn't connect with this movie, then I'm not taking a dig against you. But anyone who's spent a mere five minutes surfing through threads like these discussing critically successful modern blockbusters will know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes, they make an entertaining read; other times, they can just be tiresome. This is a case of the latter, as I genuinely enjoyed this movie.

I think you're being a bit harsh on critics of this film. Of course a lot of people are not liking this because of it's popularity or for other stupid reason (Craig's blond) but there are people out there (such as myself) who like this film but don't think it deserved a BAFTA for Best British Film.

For instance regarding your points above; I did not think that the entire cast was sublime. Naomi Harris was weak however I think that was mainly due to the writing of her character who was actually an unnecessary presence in most of the film. I get that they were trying to establish the rapport between the characters but I don't think we need a back story to every single character. I would've been quite happy if she'd just appeared at the end, it would have been a pleasant surprise. But instead we got all the speculation and a cringingly bad reveal to a twist that most people would have seen coming. The script was sharp in most parts but that reveal ("I don't believe we've been formerly introduced") was shocking. How could they have been working on that pre-credit mission without knowing each other's names.

Javier Bardem is fantastic. His opening monologue is pure gold but it doesn't make up for the fact that Silva is only a good Bond Villain. I appreciate that people like him for the contradiction he is to Bond and the themes he raises but on the face of it his motivation and his end game are extremely disappointing. Let's look at the facts; he has the power to take over a whole island, hack the MI6 gas supply, steal the hard drive (we're just going to ignore that? OK ), he can do all this but he can't kill a woman in her late 70s. Bond is renowned for its ridiculous plots; diamond laser satellites, world war 3 to boost your media network, etc, etc. I don't really understand how damning up the Bolivian water supply gets slated for being a shit story but a one man mission to assassinate a geriatric is the best Bond film ever. The Bolivian water hoarding was weak but it QoS was about so much more than that, it was part of a much larger Quantum operation which we, the audience are not yet privy to. Silva's plan was not part of something bigger, it could've been, given the plot with the stolen hard drive it would have been possible for them to incorporate it into the Quantum group and have Silva go on his own vendetta but they didn't. His vendetta is the plot and I probably would've been fine with that but the film is over 2 hours long and after all that time and build up the final climax left me with a feeling of "Is that it?".

I can understand your frustration with people tearing it apart and being overly critical. I have the same frustrations when it comes to QoS which I feel is extremely underrated as a Bond film. Skyfall is very good; as you said the cinematography is amazing, as is the directing, and the acting (for the most part) but for me it doesn't quite pull together into the great film that everyone else seems to see.

I hope that this post doesn't come across as trolling are trying to start an argument because it wasn't intended that way but your comments on the current trend of people not liking films because it's the unpopular thing to do got me thinking about other threads for similar points have been raised and I can't help but feel that this trend (which unfortunately does exist) has led to another trend of people automatically labelling people who don't like popular films as trolls. I'm not accusing you of doing that I just wanted to defend the people who are genuine in not thinking this is the greatest Bond film of all time.

I must say, I actually loved how comparatively simple the plot was for this one, especially after QoS (even though I also think that one is rather underrated). Silva just wants to kill M? That's fine with me. Better than another end-of-the-world plot, in my opinion. I loved how it was more personal. And I still stand by what I said about Silva as a villain. I mean, at least his motivation was more than just "world domination". And whether he did it personally or not, he will now forever be the villain that killed M. No Bond villain has done anything nearly that big since OHMSS. Even without that mighty achievement, he's still one of my favourite Bond baddies.

You certainly don't come across as trolling and I'm glad you gave such a detailed and intelligent reply; it's not often I see those after all. I'm definitely not saying that it's just trolls who don't like this movie. It's a matter of opinion whether it's good or bad. I despise people who'll hate it and say that whoever likes it are idiots or "brainless sheep", and the same goes the other way. I just got so sick of reading all those troll comments that I had to write something. What can I say? I bite easily.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.

Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?

And you'll never guess where exactly that pain is located...

Then there's Star Wars, of course. Christ, where do you start? Flash Gordon, King Arthur, Kurosawa, John Ford, The Dam Busters, The Wizard of Oz, Laurel and Hardy, etc, etc, etc. Minor talents plagiarise, great artists steal.

And what goes around comes around. Star Wars in turn became one of the most influential films of all time in its own right. No Star Wars, no science fiction boom of the 70s and 80s. That means no Star Wars, no Star Trek movies to recently re-boot, no Alien and no Blade Runner (which, ouroboros-style, clearly influenced the Star Wars prequels, especially Episode II). And no Star Wars, no ILM, no effects and CG revolution which means no LOTR, Titanic or Avatar either. Or Life of Pi. Indeed, without Star Wars we probably wouldn't have Ridley Scott, James Cameron or David Fincher. Not as we know them, certainly. Before Star Wars, Scott's next film would have been Tristan and Isolde, not Alien. Fincher started as a teen at ILM (he's credited on Return of the Jedi and Temple of Doom) and, by his own admission, Cameron would still be driving a truck!

(And by popularising the work of Joseph Campbell, Star Wars established the "hero's journey" template slavishly adhered to by The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar. And having influenced The Dark Knight Trilogy as well, Joseph Campbell has also indirectly influenced Skyfall which emphasises that like Bruce Wayne, Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, James Bond is also an orphan with serious dead parent issues!)

About the only film series anywhere near as culturally influential as Star Wars is James Bond who single-handedly inspired the whole super-spy sub-genre which is still with us today in the form of Mission: Impossible and Bourne. Bond also inspired Leone's spaghetti westerns (just look at the title sequences!), Indiana Jones (it wasn't a coincidence that Indy's dad was James Bond) and Star Wars, of course. While Bond in turn has been influenced over the years by, among other things, blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), chop-socky (The Man With The Golden Gun) and - yup, you guessed it - Star Wars (Moonraker). And on and on it goes. Bond inspired Bourne who inspired Bond.

Yours windily...

(I can't believe I missed High Noon, BTW. Yet another obvious influence on Skyfall's climax. The thieving bastard!)

Very well said. You should retitle that post 'The Circle Jerk of Cinema Influences'. At least as far as successful blockbusters are concerned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

Daniel Craig shows once again that he is Ian Fleming's 007 through and through (although I still prefer the cinematic Bond of Connery, to those who were thinking of me as a pretentious twat), Sam Mendes proves to be an inspired choice for director, Javier Bardem is instantly one of the greatest Bond villains ever, not to mention the entire cast is sublime, and the script is wonderfully sharp. However, the real show stealer is Roger Deakins' stunning cinematography which was jaw-dropping on the big screen, not to mention on the terrific blu-ray (if he doesn't win the Oscar this year, I'm going to lose my mind). 9/10 for me. Not my favourite Bond flick but definitely in my top five. Fantastic movie.

But, I wish I could have made a bet that most of the people on this thread would tear the movie apart. After all, as is the case with Nolan and Spielberg, anything that is popular in these times is immediately unpopular. Such is the case with this current wave on the Internet of people who talk about plot holes as if they are a serious flaw in a movie's quality. And boy do they love to throw around the word "overrated".

If you honestly just didn't connect with this movie, then I'm not taking a dig against you. But anyone who's spent a mere five minutes surfing through threads like these discussing critically successful modern blockbusters will know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes, they make an entertaining read; other times, they can just be tiresome. This is a case of the latter, as I genuinely enjoyed this movie.

I think you're being a bit harsh on critics of this film. Of course a lot of people are not liking this because of it's popularity or for other stupid reason (Craig's blond) but there are people out there (such as myself) who like this film but don't think it deserved a BAFTA for Best British Film.

For instance regarding your points above; I did not think that the entire cast was sublime. Naomi Harris was weak however I think that was mainly due to the writing of her character who was actually an unnecessary presence in most of the film. I get that they were trying to establish the rapport between the characters but I don't think we need a back story to every single character. I would've been quite happy if she'd just appeared at the end, it would have been a pleasant surprise. But instead we got all the speculation and a cringingly bad reveal to a twist that most people would have seen coming. The script was sharp in most parts but that reveal ("I don't believe we've been formerly introduced") was shocking. How could they have been working on that pre-credit mission without knowing each other's names.

Javier Bardem is fantastic. His opening monologue is pure gold but it doesn't make up for the fact that Silva is only a good Bond Villain. I appreciate that people like him for the contradiction he is to Bond and the themes he raises but on the face of it his motivation and his end game are extremely disappointing. Let's look at the facts; he has the power to take over a whole island, hack the MI6 gas supply, steal the hard drive (we're just going to ignore that? OK ), he can do all this but he can't kill a woman in her late 70s. Bond is renowned for its ridiculous plots; diamond laser satellites, world war 3 to boost your media network, etc, etc. I don't really understand how damning up the Bolivian water supply gets slated for being a shit story but a one man mission to assassinate a geriatric is the best Bond film ever. The Bolivian water hoarding was weak but it QoS was about so much more than that, it was part of a much larger Quantum operation which we, the audience are not yet privy to. Silva's plan was not part of something bigger, it could've been, given the plot with the stolen hard drive it would have been possible for them to incorporate it into the Quantum group and have Silva go on his own vendetta but they didn't. His vendetta is the plot and I probably would've been fine with that but the film is over 2 hours long and after all that time and build up the final climax left me with a feeling of "Is that it?".

I can understand your frustration with people tearing it apart and being overly critical. I have the same frustrations when it comes to QoS which I feel is extremely underrated as a Bond film. Skyfall is very good; as you said the cinematography is amazing, as is the directing, and the acting (for the most part) but for me it doesn't quite pull together into the great film that everyone else seems to see.

I hope that this post doesn't come across as trolling are trying to start an argument because it wasn't intended that way but your comments on the current trend of people not liking films because it's the unpopular thing to do got me thinking about other threads for similar points have been raised and I can't help but feel that this trend (which unfortunately does exist) has led to another trend of people automatically labelling people who don't like popular films as trolls. I'm not accusing you of doing that I just wanted to defend the people who are genuine in not thinking this is the greatest Bond film of all time.

I must say, I actually loved how comparatively simple the plot was for this one, especially after QoS (even though I also think that one is rather underrated). Silva just wants to kill M? That's fine with me. Better than another end-of-the-world plot, in my opinion. I loved how it was more personal. And I still stand by what I said about Silva as a villain. I mean, at least his motivation was more than just "world domination". And whether he did it personally or not, he will now forever be the villain that killed M. No Bond villain has done anything nearly that big since OHMSS. Even without that mighty achievement, he's still one of my favourite Bond baddies.

You certainly don't come across as trolling and I'm glad you gave such a detailed and intelligent reply; it's not often I see those after all. I'm definitely not saying that it's just trolls who don't like this movie. It's a matter of opinion whether it's good or bad. I despise people who'll hate it and say that whoever likes it are idiots or "brainless sheep", and the same goes the other way. I just got so sick of reading all those troll comments that I had to write something. What can I say? I bite easily.

I didn't really have a problem with the simple plot myself, but I did feel that the writers made a simple vendetta far too complicated. The first hour and a half of this film is essentially Silva's extremely convoluted plan to get M in a specific room so he can walk in dressed as a police man and shoot her and he couldn't even do that right. I get that he wanted to kill her reputation and career as well as her physical form but the plot to steal the hard drive to get captured deliberately to hack the M16 system to escape to get to the courtroom was far too complicated for such a simple end game. It felt like they were trying to turn a burger and chips (I like burgers and chips) into cuisine dining and it didn't sit well with me., especially given that in the end he just hires a load of armed goons and goes after her like a psychotic motherfucker. I think it could have been a very good movie but they tried to be too clever with it and for me it didn't work.

I agree that Silva killing M was something original and definitely added to the film, it would have been naff if Bond had managed to save her. That said I felt the final confrontation could have been better; I was disappointed that there wasn't a decent punch up between Bond and Silva and the clearly signposted death by knife was a bit of a dud ending for me.

I haven't seen Straw Dogs so Home Alone is the comparison that immediately springs to mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.

Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?

And you'll never guess where exactly that pain is located...

Then there's Star Wars, of course. Christ, where do you start? Flash Gordon, King Arthur, Kurosawa, John Ford, The Dam Busters, The Wizard of Oz, Laurel and Hardy, etc, etc, etc. Minor talents plagiarise, great artists steal.

And what goes around comes around. Star Wars in turn became one of the most influential films of all time in its own right. No Star Wars, no science fiction boom of the 70s and 80s. That means no Star Wars, no Star Trek movies to recently re-boot, no Alien and no Blade Runner (which, ouroboros-style, clearly influenced the Star Wars prequels, especially Episode II). And no Star Wars, no ILM, no effects and CG revolution which means no LOTR, Titanic or Avatar either. Or Life of Pi. Indeed, without Star Wars we probably wouldn't have Ridley Scott, James Cameron or David Fincher. Not as we know them, certainly. Before Star Wars, Scott's next film would have been Tristan and Isolde, not Alien. Fincher started as a teen at ILM (he's credited on Return of the Jedi and Temple of Doom) and, by his own admission, Cameron would still be driving a truck!

(And by popularising the work of Joseph Campbell, Star Wars established the "hero's journey" template slavishly adhered to by The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar. And having influenced The Dark Knight Trilogy as well, Joseph Campbell has also indirectly influenced Skyfall which emphasises that like Bruce Wayne, Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, James Bond is also an orphan with serious dead parent issues!)

About the only film series anywhere near as culturally influential as Star Wars is James Bond who single-handedly inspired the whole super-spy sub-genre which is still with us today in the form of Mission: Impossible and Bourne. Bond also inspired Leone's spaghetti westerns (just look at the title sequences!), Indiana Jones (it wasn't a coincidence that Indy's dad was James Bond) and Star Wars, of course. While Bond in turn has been influenced over the years by, among other things, blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), chop-socky (The Man With The Golden Gun) and - yup, you guessed it - Star Wars (Moonraker). And on and on it goes. Bond inspired Bourne who inspired Bond.

Yours windily...

(I can't believe I missed High Noon, BTW. Yet another obvious influence on Skyfall's climax. The thieving bastard!)

Very well said. You should retitle that post 'The Circle Jerk of Cinema Influences'. At least as far as successful blockbusters are concerned.

Fixed that for you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

My pleasure, and thankyou for yet another sermon. constantly referencing other films, I'm afraid , does not make Skyfall any more entertaining. But if that's how you get your kicks, each to their own. Can't believe I called you a pretentious windbag. What was I thinking!! And as for being witless, I'm afraid you sir have entered the battle of wits completely unarmed. Oh jesus, I'm beginning to sound like you. A truly tiresome tit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

You don't need to talk your way into disregarding plot holes. They just don't matter as much as people think they do.
That one particular one you mentioned doesn't make much sense as a "plot hole", though, considering Bond's surprise at the old man being there, "Are you still alive?", it was pretty obvious that he thought the place was completely abandoned, so why would he phone ahead? It was an out of the way area where there would be minimal collateral damage, and he wanted to gain the upper hand by luring Silva to terrain that wasn't familiar to him.

Now if you really wanted to talk plot holes, you'd point out that literally everything that happened after Patrice stole the date had to have happened exactly the way that they did, otherwise Silva's plans would have not worked, even though Silva had absolutely no control over any of it until Bond captured him. Now that's a plot hole. But if the movie is entertaining, it really doesn't matter. It's not like every other Bond film have been harbingers of perfect logic, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

You, sir, have just made my day XD

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Now if you really wanted to talk plot holes, you'd point out that literally everything that happened after Patrice stole the date had to have happened exactly the way that they did, otherwise Silva's plans would have not worked, even though Silva had absolutely no control over any of it until Bond captured him. Now that's a plot hole. But if the movie is entertaining, it really doesn't matter. It's not like every other Bond film have been harbingers of perfect logic, after all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Now if you really wanted to talk plot holes, you'd point out that literally everything that happened after Patrice stole the date had to have happened exactly the way that they did, otherwise Silva's plans would have not worked, even though Silva had absolutely no control over any of it until Bond captured him. Now that's a plot hole. But if the movie is entertaining, it really doesn't matter. It's not like every other Bond film have been harbingers of perfect logic, after all.

Which is probably Skyfall's biggest parallel with The Dark Knight. The Joker's needlessly over-elaborate plans made about as much sense as Silva's. But who cares? Just as there aren't any films which haven't been influenced by something else (nothing exists in a vacuum apart from the occasional fanboy's head) from why didn't Hamlet not just kill his stepfather to how come the "armed and fully operational" second Death Star couldn't generate its own shields (or how come no-one ever noticed SPECTRE hollowing out that volcano?) there's probably never been a film made or story written which hasn't got some kind of plot hole in it - I dedicated a thread to this over on Movie Musings.

Obviously there are limits and I draw the line at filmmakers taking the piss. But you could drive yourself spare endlessly nitpicking this sort of stuff - I only do it for cheap laughs. It is only a movie, after all. And like Oasis said, you gotta role with it. I think it's got something to do with the willing suspension of disbelief. The Bond films are all ludicrous, frankly - how did 007 survive that clearly fatal fall at the start of Skyfall? At that height/terminal velocity, the difference between a liquid and a solid is negligible.

But it strikes me that some people aren't willing to suspend their disbelief so much as an inch off the ground. Which is a real shame. Like the man said: why so serious?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

I have no problem with the supposed dark knight parallel of Silva needing to be caught for his plan to work with presumed chance to escape being part of the plan. Why? Because in film after film Bond has operated the exact same plan: kick up a storm until the person you are after sends people after you. Get captured in order to get to the heart of the operation you are infiltrating. Escape and cause chaosto end whatever it is the target isseeking to achieve.

Silva was clearly being 'bond in reverse' as part of the entire thrust of the narrative. Additionally Silva knew everything about the secret base he was seeking to to infiltrate under the guise of being caught and helpless so naturally his path to kicking up a shitstorm to shake up his target was a little more planned out than Bondian infilltration.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

Really? From that height? Without a wire or a fast descender or something? What was his name - Iron Baws McGinty?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

To return to the topic of movie influences, I'm not sure if you've already listened to Mendes' commentary track on the movie, but apparently one of the many influences on some of the camerawork (particularly the longer shots) was Chinatown. Woo-hoo! I also loved the scene where Bond is off the grid and is at the bar in the very early morning; it reminded me of when Popeye Doyle wakes up in the bar in The French Connection. I know it was done even before then, but Popeye being my favourite male character (despite what I've called myself here) I did have a smile on my face in the cinema at that scene. Such a classic way to show a character hitting rock bottom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

To return to the topic of movie influences, I'm not sure if you've already listened to Mendes' commentary track on the movie, but apparently one of the many influences on some of the camerawork (particularly the longer shots) was Chinatown. Woo-hoo! I also loved the scene where Bond is off the grid and is at the bar in the very early morning; it reminded me of when Popeye Doyle wakes up in the bar in The French Connection. I know it was done even before then, but Popeye being my favourite male character (despite what I've called myself here) I did have a smile on my face in the cinema at that scene. Such a classic way to show a character hitting rock bottom.

It was the jiggery pokery on the underground which reminded me of The French Connection. Carlito's Way too. But with Bond's alcohol-fuelled soul-searching of late you've also got me thinking Bogart in Casablanca now. And speaking of "ugly" screen icons, don't tell me Craig doesn't look like Steve McQueen on that motorbike...

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

(instead of him finding their secret hide-out and having an epic showdown, he retreats to his own hideout, and has a far smaller scale showdown).

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnChard

To me it's quite simple.

This is a new era of James Bond, those still thinking that the days of Sean and Roger will return are merely kidding themselves, it's never going to happen, the world has changed too much. The best these people will get is the referencing and nods to the past that Skyfall does so wonderfully well. It doesn't matter how much of a Bond fan you think you are, an expert on what is good for Bond, best Bonds etc etc, fact is, move and buy into this new era of Bond or stop watching the franchise or at the least, buy a time machine...

quote:

Skyfall has made over 900 million in profit, I'm afraid those are figures that simply do not lie in any shape or form, evidently a LOT of people buy into this new era Bond!

quote:

And the Craig haters can't cope with it :-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnChard

Great to see some sensible adult posts forming here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

To return to the topic of movie influences, I'm not sure if you've already listened to Mendes' commentary track on the movie, but apparently one of the many influences on some of the camerawork (particularly the longer shots) was Chinatown. Woo-hoo! I also loved the scene where Bond is off the grid and is at the bar in the very early morning; it reminded me of when Popeye Doyle wakes up in the bar in The French Connection. I know it was done even before then, but Popeye being my favourite male character (despite what I've called myself here) I did have a smile on my face in the cinema at that scene. Such a classic way to show a character hitting rock bottom.

It was the jiggery pokery on the underground which reminded me of The French Connection. Carlito's Way too. But with Bond's alcohol-fuelled soul-searching of late you've also got me thinking Bogart in Casablanca now. And speaking of "ugly" screen icons, don't tell me Craig doesn't look like Steve McQueen on that motorbike...

Agree on all counts. The "ugly" screen icons are the best in my opinion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

Or a DVD boxset. It's not like there aren't plenty of Bond films not starring Daniel Craig. I've got twenty of 'em right here.