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RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 12:46:59 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
Man, am I sick and tired of these people who do nothing but insult people who dare to like a film that they don't, and then have the gall to claim that people only don't like them because they don't share their opinion! It's really fucking stupid, but it appears that any time a movie receives as almost universal acclaim from both critics and the public, people are going to come out of the woodwork thinking they're being "edgy" or "cool" for having a different opinion.

When I first saw this movie, I said it was up there with my two favourite Bond movies (Casino Royale and GoldenEye), but upon watching it on BluRay my opinion has changed. I actually think that for the most part, it's better than either of those two. Managing to make a Bond movie that feels both modern and like a classic Connery-era Bond at the same time must be an incredibly difficult job, but Sam Mendes has almost made it look easy. It's almost as if that between Quantum Of Solace and Skyfall, Dr. No, From Russia With Love and Goldfinger happened, and this is really a sequel to those movies as much as it is to CR and QOS.
Sure, there are comparisons that can be made to other movies (most evident to me is how much it felt like The Dark Knight), but you can find comparisons to other movies in every single film ever made as has been pointed out far more eloquently by chris_kilby. The Home Alone comparisons I thought most people were mainly joking about, though... it seems that that humourous observation has been usurped by people who hated the film and morphed into "it's nothing but a Home Alone rip-off". Of course, this ignores the first two hours of the nearly 2 and a half hour movie that are very much Bond, and it's kind of nice to have a subversion of the usual Bond film climax (instead of him finding their secret hide-out and having an epic showdown, he retreats to his own hideout, and has a far smaller scale showdown).

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 451
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 1:14:00 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.


Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?


And you'll never guess where exactly that pain is located...

Then there's Star Wars, of course. Christ, where do you start? Flash Gordon, King Arthur, Kurosawa, John Ford, The Dam Busters, The Wizard of Oz, Laurel and Hardy, etc, etc, etc. Minor talents plagiarise, great artists steal.

And what goes around comes around. Star Wars in turn became one of the most influential films of all time in its own right. No Star Wars, no science fiction boom of the 70s and 80s. That means no Star Wars, no Star Trek movies to recently re-boot, no Alien and no Blade Runner (which, ouroboros-style, clearly influenced the Star Wars prequels, especially Episode II). And no Star Wars, no ILM, no effects and CG revolution which means no LOTR, Titanic or Avatar either. Or Life of Pi. Indeed, without Star Wars we probably wouldn't have Ridley Scott, James Cameron or David Fincher. Not as we know them, certainly. Before Star Wars, Scott's next film would have been Tristan and Isolde, not Alien. Fincher started as a teen at ILM (he's credited on Return of the Jedi and Temple of Doom) and, by his own admission, Cameron would still be driving a truck!

(And by popularising the work of Joseph Campbell, Star Wars established the "hero's journey" template slavishly adhered to by The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar. And having influenced The Dark Knight Trilogy as well, Joseph Campbell has also indirectly influenced Skyfall which emphasises that like Bruce Wayne, Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, James Bond is also an orphan with serious dead parent issues!)

About the only film series anywhere near as culturally influential as Star Wars is James Bond who single-handedly inspired the whole super-spy sub-genre which is still with us today in the form of Mission: Impossible and Bourne. Bond also inspired Leone's spaghetti westerns (just look at the title sequences!), Indiana Jones (it wasn't a coincidence that Indy's dad was James Bond) and Star Wars, of course. While Bond in turn has been influenced over the years by, among other things, blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), chop-socky (The Man With The Golden Gun) and - yup, you guessed it - Star Wars (Moonraker). And on and on it goes. Bond inspired Bourne who inspired Bond.

Yours windily...

(I can't believe I missed High Noon, BTW. Yet another obvious influence on Skyfall's climax. The thieving bastard!)


Very well said. You should retitle that post 'The Circle of Cinema Influences'. At least as far as successful blockbusters are concerned.

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 452
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 1:25:38 PM   
musht


Posts: 1880
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: musht


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

Daniel Craig shows once again that he is Ian Fleming's 007 through and through (although I still prefer the cinematic Bond of Connery, to those who were thinking of me as a pretentious twat), Sam Mendes proves to be an inspired choice for director, Javier Bardem is instantly one of the greatest Bond villains ever, not to mention the entire cast is sublime, and the script is wonderfully sharp. However, the real show stealer is Roger Deakins' stunning cinematography which was jaw-dropping on the big screen, not to mention on the terrific blu-ray (if he doesn't win the Oscar this year, I'm going to lose my mind). 9/10 for me. Not my favourite Bond flick but definitely in my top five. Fantastic movie.

But, I wish I could have made a bet that most of the people on this thread would tear the movie apart. After all, as is the case with Nolan and Spielberg, anything that is popular in these times is immediately unpopular. Such is the case with this current wave on the Internet of people who talk about plot holes as if they are a serious flaw in a movie's quality. And boy do they love to throw around the word "overrated".

If you honestly just didn't connect with this movie, then I'm not taking a dig against you. But anyone who's spent a mere five minutes surfing through threads like these discussing critically successful modern blockbusters will know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes, they make an entertaining read; other times, they can just be tiresome. This is a case of the latter, as I genuinely enjoyed this movie.

I think you're being a bit harsh on critics of this film. Of course a lot of people are not liking this because of it's popularity or for other stupid reason (Craig's blond) but there are people out there (such as myself) who like this film but don't think it deserved a BAFTA for Best British Film.

For instance regarding your points above; I did not think that the entire cast was sublime. Naomi Harris was weak however I think that was mainly due to the writing of her character who was actually an unnecessary presence in most of the film. I get that they were trying to establish the rapport between the characters but I don't think we need a back story to every single character. I would've been quite happy if she'd just appeared at the end, it would have been a pleasant surprise. But instead we got all the speculation and a cringingly bad reveal to a twist that most people would have seen coming. The script was sharp in most parts but that reveal ("I don't believe we've been formerly introduced") was shocking. How could they have been working on that pre-credit mission without knowing each other's names.

Javier Bardem is fantastic. His opening monologue is pure gold but it doesn't make up for the fact that Silva is only a good Bond Villain. I appreciate that people like him for the contradiction he is to Bond and the themes he raises but on the face of it his motivation and his end game are extremely disappointing. Let's look at the facts; he has the power to take over a whole island, hack the MI6 gas supply, steal the hard drive (we're just going to ignore that? OK ), he can do all this but he can't kill a woman in her late 70s. Bond is renowned for its ridiculous plots; diamond laser satellites, world war 3 to boost your media network, etc, etc. I don't really understand how damning up the Bolivian water supply gets slated for being a shit story but a one man mission to assassinate a geriatric is the best Bond film ever. The Bolivian water hoarding was weak but it QoS was about so much more than that, it was part of a much larger Quantum operation which we, the audience are not yet privy to. Silva's plan was not part of something bigger, it could've been, given the plot with the stolen hard drive it would have been possible for them to incorporate it into the Quantum group and have Silva go on his own vendetta but they didn't. His vendetta is the plot and I probably would've been fine with that but the film is over 2 hours long and after all that time and build up the final climax left me with a feeling of "Is that it?".

I can understand your frustration with people tearing it apart and being overly critical. I have the same frustrations when it comes to QoS which I feel is extremely underrated as a Bond film. Skyfall is very good; as you said the cinematography is amazing, as is the directing, and the acting (for the most part) but for me it doesn't quite pull together into the great film that everyone else seems to see.

I hope that this post doesn't come across as trolling are trying to start an argument because it wasn't intended that way but your comments on the current trend of people not liking films because it's the unpopular thing to do got me thinking about other threads for similar points have been raised and I can't help but feel that this trend (which unfortunately does exist) has led to another trend of people automatically labelling people who don't like popular films as trolls. I'm not accusing you of doing that I just wanted to defend the people who are genuine in not thinking this is the greatest Bond film of all time.

I must say, I actually loved how comparatively simple the plot was for this one, especially after QoS (even though I also think that one is rather underrated). Silva just wants to kill M? That's fine with me. Better than another end-of-the-world plot, in my opinion. I loved how it was more personal. And I still stand by what I said about Silva as a villain. I mean, at least his motivation was more than just "world domination". And whether he did it personally or not, he will now forever be the villain that killed M. No Bond villain has done anything nearly that big since OHMSS. Even without that mighty achievement, he's still one of my favourite Bond baddies.

You certainly don't come across as trolling and I'm glad you gave such a detailed and intelligent reply; it's not often I see those after all. I'm definitely not saying that it's just trolls who don't like this movie. It's a matter of opinion whether it's good or bad. I despise people who'll hate it and say that whoever likes it are idiots or "brainless sheep", and the same goes the other way. I just got so sick of reading all those troll comments that I had to write something. What can I say? I bite easily.

I didn't really have a problem with the simple plot myself, but I did feel that the writers made a simple vendetta far too complicated. The first hour and a half of this film is essentially Silva's extremely convoluted plan to get M in a specific room so he can walk in dressed as a police man and shoot her and he couldn't even do that right. I get that he wanted to kill her reputation and career as well as her physical form but the plot to steal the hard drive to get captured deliberately to hack the M16 system to escape to get to the courtroom was far too complicated for such a simple end game. It felt like they were trying to turn a burger and chips (I like burgers and chips) into cuisine dining and it didn't sit well with me., especially given that in the end he just hires a load of armed goons and goes after her like a psychotic motherfucker. I think it could have been a very good movie but they tried to be too clever with it and for me it didn't work.

I agree that Silva killing M was something original and definitely added to the film, it would have been naff if Bond had managed to save her. That said I felt the final confrontation could have been better; I was disappointed that there wasn't a decent punch up between Bond and Silva and the clearly signposted death by knife was a bit of a dud ending for me.

I haven't seen Straw Dogs so Home Alone is the comparison that immediately springs to mind.

_____________________________

"SAVE ME, BARRY!!"

"What the hell are Regionals!?"

"color=#F1F1F1" Spoiler text "/color"

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 453
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 1:48:39 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.


Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?


And you'll never guess where exactly that pain is located...

Then there's Star Wars, of course. Christ, where do you start? Flash Gordon, King Arthur, Kurosawa, John Ford, The Dam Busters, The Wizard of Oz, Laurel and Hardy, etc, etc, etc. Minor talents plagiarise, great artists steal.

And what goes around comes around. Star Wars in turn became one of the most influential films of all time in its own right. No Star Wars, no science fiction boom of the 70s and 80s. That means no Star Wars, no Star Trek movies to recently re-boot, no Alien and no Blade Runner (which, ouroboros-style, clearly influenced the Star Wars prequels, especially Episode II). And no Star Wars, no ILM, no effects and CG revolution which means no LOTR, Titanic or Avatar either. Or Life of Pi. Indeed, without Star Wars we probably wouldn't have Ridley Scott, James Cameron or David Fincher. Not as we know them, certainly. Before Star Wars, Scott's next film would have been Tristan and Isolde, not Alien. Fincher started as a teen at ILM (he's credited on Return of the Jedi and Temple of Doom) and, by his own admission, Cameron would still be driving a truck!

(And by popularising the work of Joseph Campbell, Star Wars established the "hero's journey" template slavishly adhered to by The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar. And having influenced The Dark Knight Trilogy as well, Joseph Campbell has also indirectly influenced Skyfall which emphasises that like Bruce Wayne, Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, James Bond is also an orphan with serious dead parent issues!)

About the only film series anywhere near as culturally influential as Star Wars is James Bond who single-handedly inspired the whole super-spy sub-genre which is still with us today in the form of Mission: Impossible and Bourne. Bond also inspired Leone's spaghetti westerns (just look at the title sequences!), Indiana Jones (it wasn't a coincidence that Indy's dad was James Bond) and Star Wars, of course. While Bond in turn has been influenced over the years by, among other things, blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), chop-socky (The Man With The Golden Gun) and - yup, you guessed it - Star Wars (Moonraker). And on and on it goes. Bond inspired Bourne who inspired Bond.

Yours windily...

(I can't believe I missed High Noon, BTW. Yet another obvious influence on Skyfall's climax. The thieving bastard!)


Very well said. You should retitle that post 'The Circle Jerk of Cinema Influences'. At least as far as successful blockbusters are concerned.


Fixed that for you.

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 454
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 2:03:53 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: musht


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

Daniel Craig shows once again that he is Ian Fleming's 007 through and through (although I still prefer the cinematic Bond of Connery, to those who were thinking of me as a pretentious twat), Sam Mendes proves to be an inspired choice for director, Javier Bardem is instantly one of the greatest Bond villains ever, not to mention the entire cast is sublime, and the script is wonderfully sharp. However, the real show stealer is Roger Deakins' stunning cinematography which was jaw-dropping on the big screen, not to mention on the terrific blu-ray (if he doesn't win the Oscar this year, I'm going to lose my mind). 9/10 for me. Not my favourite Bond flick but definitely in my top five. Fantastic movie.

But, I wish I could have made a bet that most of the people on this thread would tear the movie apart. After all, as is the case with Nolan and Spielberg, anything that is popular in these times is immediately unpopular. Such is the case with this current wave on the Internet of people who talk about plot holes as if they are a serious flaw in a movie's quality. And boy do they love to throw around the word "overrated".

If you honestly just didn't connect with this movie, then I'm not taking a dig against you. But anyone who's spent a mere five minutes surfing through threads like these discussing critically successful modern blockbusters will know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes, they make an entertaining read; other times, they can just be tiresome. This is a case of the latter, as I genuinely enjoyed this movie.

I think you're being a bit harsh on critics of this film. Of course a lot of people are not liking this because of it's popularity or for other stupid reason (Craig's blond) but there are people out there (such as myself) who like this film but don't think it deserved a BAFTA for Best British Film.

For instance regarding your points above; I did not think that the entire cast was sublime. Naomi Harris was weak however I think that was mainly due to the writing of her character who was actually an unnecessary presence in most of the film. I get that they were trying to establish the rapport between the characters but I don't think we need a back story to every single character. I would've been quite happy if she'd just appeared at the end, it would have been a pleasant surprise. But instead we got all the speculation and a cringingly bad reveal to a twist that most people would have seen coming. The script was sharp in most parts but that reveal ("I don't believe we've been formerly introduced") was shocking. How could they have been working on that pre-credit mission without knowing each other's names.

Javier Bardem is fantastic. His opening monologue is pure gold but it doesn't make up for the fact that Silva is only a good Bond Villain. I appreciate that people like him for the contradiction he is to Bond and the themes he raises but on the face of it his motivation and his end game are extremely disappointing. Let's look at the facts; he has the power to take over a whole island, hack the MI6 gas supply, steal the hard drive (we're just going to ignore that? OK ), he can do all this but he can't kill a woman in her late 70s. Bond is renowned for its ridiculous plots; diamond laser satellites, world war 3 to boost your media network, etc, etc. I don't really understand how damning up the Bolivian water supply gets slated for being a shit story but a one man mission to assassinate a geriatric is the best Bond film ever. The Bolivian water hoarding was weak but it QoS was about so much more than that, it was part of a much larger Quantum operation which we, the audience are not yet privy to. Silva's plan was not part of something bigger, it could've been, given the plot with the stolen hard drive it would have been possible for them to incorporate it into the Quantum group and have Silva go on his own vendetta but they didn't. His vendetta is the plot and I probably would've been fine with that but the film is over 2 hours long and after all that time and build up the final climax left me with a feeling of "Is that it?".

I can understand your frustration with people tearing it apart and being overly critical. I have the same frustrations when it comes to QoS which I feel is extremely underrated as a Bond film. Skyfall is very good; as you said the cinematography is amazing, as is the directing, and the acting (for the most part) but for me it doesn't quite pull together into the great film that everyone else seems to see.

I hope that this post doesn't come across as trolling are trying to start an argument because it wasn't intended that way but your comments on the current trend of people not liking films because it's the unpopular thing to do got me thinking about other threads for similar points have been raised and I can't help but feel that this trend (which unfortunately does exist) has led to another trend of people automatically labelling people who don't like popular films as trolls. I'm not accusing you of doing that I just wanted to defend the people who are genuine in not thinking this is the greatest Bond film of all time.

I must say, I actually loved how comparatively simple the plot was for this one, especially after QoS (even though I also think that one is rather underrated). Silva just wants to kill M? That's fine with me. Better than another end-of-the-world plot, in my opinion. I loved how it was more personal. And I still stand by what I said about Silva as a villain. I mean, at least his motivation was more than just "world domination". And whether he did it personally or not, he will now forever be the villain that killed M. No Bond villain has done anything nearly that big since OHMSS. Even without that mighty achievement, he's still one of my favourite Bond baddies.

You certainly don't come across as trolling and I'm glad you gave such a detailed and intelligent reply; it's not often I see those after all. I'm definitely not saying that it's just trolls who don't like this movie. It's a matter of opinion whether it's good or bad. I despise people who'll hate it and say that whoever likes it are idiots or "brainless sheep", and the same goes the other way. I just got so sick of reading all those troll comments that I had to write something. What can I say? I bite easily.

I didn't really have a problem with the simple plot myself, but I did feel that the writers made a simple vendetta far too complicated. The first hour and a half of this film is essentially Silva's extremely convoluted plan to get M in a specific room so he can walk in dressed as a police man and shoot her and he couldn't even do that right. I get that he wanted to kill her reputation and career as well as her physical form but the plot to steal the hard drive to get captured deliberately to hack the M16 system to escape to get to the courtroom was far too complicated for such a simple end game. It felt like they were trying to turn a burger and chips (I like burgers and chips) into cuisine dining and it didn't sit well with me., especially given that in the end he just hires a load of armed goons and goes after her like a psychotic motherfucker. I think it could have been a very good movie but they tried to be too clever with it and for me it didn't work.

I agree that Silva killing M was something original and definitely added to the film, it would have been naff if Bond had managed to save her. That said I felt the final confrontation could have been better; I was disappointed that there wasn't a decent punch up between Bond and Silva and the clearly signposted death by knife was a bit of a dud ending for me.

I haven't seen Straw Dogs so Home Alone is the comparison that immediately springs to mind.

Oh, well. Personally, I disagree but I do see where you're coming from. They're just not things that annoy me in films, though I still have ridiculously small quibbles with some movies; excessive use of steadicam, unnecessary voice-overs and crap CGI blood. For example, the latter two bugged me in Kick-Ass which I still really liked. And I'm left a little irritated by pretty much every movie directed by Clint Eastwood in the last 20 years, even when they're great, because he uses steadicam so much. Unforgiven is the biggest exception for me. By far his most ambitiously made picture and one of my all-time favourites. But that's a little over 20 years ago now, and like I said everything afterwards has left me a little frustrated by his style.

However, even these little nags of mine still don't stop me from enjoying these movies. I'm just showing you that if these kind of plot details are your nags with Skyfall and movies in general, I understand. I loved the burger and chips metaphor, by the way XD I like them too.

(in reply to musht)
Post #: 455
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 2:06:06 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.


Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?


And you'll never guess where exactly that pain is located...

Then there's Star Wars, of course. Christ, where do you start? Flash Gordon, King Arthur, Kurosawa, John Ford, The Dam Busters, The Wizard of Oz, Laurel and Hardy, etc, etc, etc. Minor talents plagiarise, great artists steal.

And what goes around comes around. Star Wars in turn became one of the most influential films of all time in its own right. No Star Wars, no science fiction boom of the 70s and 80s. That means no Star Wars, no Star Trek movies to recently re-boot, no Alien and no Blade Runner (which, ouroboros-style, clearly influenced the Star Wars prequels, especially Episode II). And no Star Wars, no ILM, no effects and CG revolution which means no LOTR, Titanic or Avatar either. Or Life of Pi. Indeed, without Star Wars we probably wouldn't have Ridley Scott, James Cameron or David Fincher. Not as we know them, certainly. Before Star Wars, Scott's next film would have been Tristan and Isolde, not Alien. Fincher started as a teen at ILM (he's credited on Return of the Jedi and Temple of Doom) and, by his own admission, Cameron would still be driving a truck!

(And by popularising the work of Joseph Campbell, Star Wars established the "hero's journey" template slavishly adhered to by The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar. And having influenced The Dark Knight Trilogy as well, Joseph Campbell has also indirectly influenced Skyfall which emphasises that like Bruce Wayne, Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, James Bond is also an orphan with serious dead parent issues!)

About the only film series anywhere near as culturally influential as Star Wars is James Bond who single-handedly inspired the whole super-spy sub-genre which is still with us today in the form of Mission: Impossible and Bourne. Bond also inspired Leone's spaghetti westerns (just look at the title sequences!), Indiana Jones (it wasn't a coincidence that Indy's dad was James Bond) and Star Wars, of course. While Bond in turn has been influenced over the years by, among other things, blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), chop-socky (The Man With The Golden Gun) and - yup, you guessed it - Star Wars (Moonraker). And on and on it goes. Bond inspired Bourne who inspired Bond.

Yours windily...

(I can't believe I missed High Noon, BTW. Yet another obvious influence on Skyfall's climax. The thieving bastard!)


Very well said. You should retitle that post 'The Circle Jerk of Cinema Influences'. At least as far as successful blockbusters are concerned.


Fixed that for you.


You, sir, have just made my day XD

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 456
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 3:26:56 PM   
Professor Dent

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 22/1/2013
It is odd, the bad feeling generated by this film.

I think it works as subtext; Bond gets to grive for his parents by taking M to his family pile and when she dies he sheds tears at last. But of course, as a narrative it's drivel; why take your boss to some out of the way place you haven't visited in decades, not even phoning ahead? But some just aren't bothered by any of this.

The Aston should not be armed with gadgets if this is a reboot, unlike the Moore films you have to know about the other Bond movies to get a lot of this film or it doesn't work. Okay, most of us do.

If it emotionally grabs you, you will talk your way into disregarding plot holes. There is a chapter on this in that new book You are Not as Smart as You Think You Are. If it doesn't charm you, the plot holes are all that matter. In the same way, a woman not getting a climax off her man will find any amount of annoyance in his little traits, but if she is, those traits become unbearable.
Post #: 457
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 3:37:00 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
You don't need to talk your way into disregarding plot holes. They just don't matter as much as people think they do.
That one particular one you mentioned doesn't make much sense as a "plot hole", though, considering Bond's surprise at the old man being there, "Are you still alive?", it was pretty obvious that he thought the place was completely abandoned, so why would he phone ahead? It was an out of the way area where there would be minimal collateral damage, and he wanted to gain the upper hand by luring Silva to terrain that wasn't familiar to him.

Now if you really wanted to talk plot holes, you'd point out that literally everything that happened after Patrice stole the date had to have happened exactly the way that they did, otherwise Silva's plans would have not worked, even though Silva had absolutely no control over any of it until Bond captured him. Now that's a plot hole. But if the movie is entertaining, it really doesn't matter. It's not like every other Bond film have been harbingers of perfect logic, after all.

(in reply to Professor Dent)
Post #: 458
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 5:46:45 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

My pleasure, and thankyou for yet another sermon. constantly referencing other films, I'm afraid , does not make Skyfall any more entertaining. But if that's how you get your kicks, each to their own. Can't believe I called you a pretentious windbag. What was I thinking!! And as for being witless, I'm afraid you sir have entered the battle of wits completely unarmed. Oh jesus, I'm beginning to sound like you. A truly tiresome tit.


Oh dear. Well, you know what they say: better a pretentious windbag than a complete ignoramus. Such naked hostility. And unbidden too. I can't help wondering if you're this needlessly aggressive towards complete strangers in everyday life. I suspect not. I believe you are what is colloquially referred to as an "internet tough guy." An oxymoron if ever there was one, I'm sure you'll agree.

Now if you'll excuse me, I actually come here to discuss movies with like-minded enthusiasts, not to exchange crude insults with tiresome playground bullies such as yourself. Talk about putting the noxious in obnoxious.


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 21/2/2013 7:03:46 PM >
Post #: 459
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 6:57:30 PM   
Professor Dent

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 22/1/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

You don't need to talk your way into disregarding plot holes. They just don't matter as much as people think they do.
That one particular one you mentioned doesn't make much sense as a "plot hole", though, considering Bond's surprise at the old man being there, "Are you still alive?", it was pretty obvious that he thought the place was completely abandoned, so why would he phone ahead? It was an out of the way area where there would be minimal collateral damage, and he wanted to gain the upper hand by luring Silva to terrain that wasn't familiar to him.

Now if you really wanted to talk plot holes, you'd point out that literally everything that happened after Patrice stole the date had to have happened exactly the way that they did, otherwise Silva's plans would have not worked, even though Silva had absolutely no control over any of it until Bond captured him. Now that's a plot hole. But if the movie is entertaining, it really doesn't matter. It's not like every other Bond film have been harbingers of perfect logic, after all.


But plot holes matter if they impair your enjoyment. And I'm hardly the only one complaining about this scene, it's everywhere. I dunno, house he's not been to in decades, could be taken over by squatters for all he knows, no idea presumably then of the shape it's in or if the gun collection is still there. And it's not in the middle of the jungle, what difficult terrain are we talking about? It's a large, rather naked house in the middle of a valley, easy to take out given the right circumstances. There's not much insider knowledge Bond can bring to it to make that much difference.

But that's just one, there's heading out to Silva's lair with no gun if I recall, just stowing away on her boat like it's easy, heading out on deck - surprise, they've seen him! Gets the girl killed.

Other Bond films aren't too logical either, but they're a different genre, uplifting, fantastic, smooth as silk. SF tried to be gritty, credible but assumes for itself the same leeway.

I just sit watching SF thinking, right, that couldn't happen... that doesn't hold up. I don't do that with the other, earlier Bonds because they're on another level.

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 460
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 7:10:05 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

You, sir, have just made my day XD


The pleasure's all mine, my son. Always happy to preach to the converted.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 21/2/2013 7:30:00 PM >

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 461
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 7:28:04 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Now if you really wanted to talk plot holes, you'd point out that literally everything that happened after Patrice stole the date had to have happened exactly the way that they did, otherwise Silva's plans would have not worked, even though Silva had absolutely no control over any of it until Bond captured him. Now that's a plot hole. But if the movie is entertaining, it really doesn't matter. It's not like every other Bond film have been harbingers of perfect logic, after all.


Which is probably Skyfall's biggest parallel with The Dark Knight. The Joker's needlessly over-elaborate plans made about as much sense as Silva's. But who cares? Just as there aren't any films which haven't been influenced by something else (nothing exists in a vacuum apart from the occasional fanboy's head) from why didn't Hamlet not just kill his stepfather to how come the "armed and fully operational" second Death Star couldn't generate its own shields (or how come no-one ever noticed SPECTRE hollowing out that volcano?) there's probably never been a film made or story written which hasn't got some kind of plot hole in it - I dedicated a thread to this over on Movie Musings.

Obviously there are limits and I draw the line at filmmakers taking the piss. But you could drive yourself spare endlessly nitpicking this sort of stuff - I only do it for cheap laughs. It is only a movie, after all. And like Oasis said, you gotta role with it. I think it's got something to do with the willing suspension of disbelief. The Bond films are all ludicrous, frankly - how did 007 survive that clearly fatal fall at the start of Skyfall? At that height/terminal velocity, the difference between a liquid and a solid is negligible.

But it strikes me that some people aren't willing to suspend their disbelief so much as an inch off the ground. Which is a real shame. Like the man said: why so serious?

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 462
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 10:57:56 PM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

Now if you really wanted to talk plot holes, you'd point out that literally everything that happened after Patrice stole the date had to have happened exactly the way that they did, otherwise Silva's plans would have not worked, even though Silva had absolutely no control over any of it until Bond captured him. Now that's a plot hole. But if the movie is entertaining, it really doesn't matter. It's not like every other Bond film have been harbingers of perfect logic, after all.


Which is probably Skyfall's biggest parallel with The Dark Knight. The Joker's needlessly over-elaborate plans made about as much sense as Silva's. But who cares? Just as there aren't any films which haven't been influenced by something else (nothing exists in a vacuum apart from the occasional fanboy's head) from why didn't Hamlet not just kill his stepfather to how come the "armed and fully operational" second Death Star couldn't generate its own shields (or how come no-one ever noticed SPECTRE hollowing out that volcano?) there's probably never been a film made or story written which hasn't got some kind of plot hole in it - I dedicated a thread to this over on Movie Musings.

Obviously there are limits and I draw the line at filmmakers taking the piss. But you could drive yourself spare endlessly nitpicking this sort of stuff - I only do it for cheap laughs. It is only a movie, after all. And like Oasis said, you gotta role with it. I think it's got something to do with the willing suspension of disbelief. The Bond films are all ludicrous, frankly - how did 007 survive that clearly fatal fall at the start of Skyfall? At that height/terminal velocity, the difference between a liquid and a solid is negligible.

But it strikes me that some people aren't willing to suspend their disbelief so much as an inch off the ground. Which is a real shame. Like the man said: why so serious?



That's actually a case of fact being just as strange as fiction. An actual stuntman actually jumped off of that moving train and actually fell into that river and actually survived.

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 463
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 11:37:12 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
Really? From that height? Without a wire or a fast descender or something? What was his name - Iron Baws McGinty?

(in reply to AxlReznor)
Post #: 464
RE: Skyfall - 21/2/2013 11:54:26 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire
Have we really come to point where we can't just accept that people think differently about this film without resorting to insults?

Hey, you didn't like the flick? Great, but is it really necessary to insult and belittle? Fucking childish.

_____________________________

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Films watched in 2013

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Post #: 465
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 1:23:49 AM   
jobloffski

 

Posts: 1895
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: elsewhere
I have no problem with the supposed dark knight parallel of Silva needing to be caught for his plan to work with presumed chance to escape being part of the plan. Why? Because in film after film Bond has operated the exact same plan: kick up a storm until the person you are after sends people after you. Get captured in order to get to the heart of the operation you are infiltrating. Escape and cause chaosto end whatever it is the target isseeking to achieve.

Silva was clearly being 'bond in reverse' as part of the entire thrust of the narrative. Additionally Silva knew everything about the secret base he was seeking to to infiltrate under the guise of being caught and helpless so naturally his path to kicking up a shitstorm to shake up his target was a little more planned out than Bondian infilltration.



< Message edited by jobloffski -- 22/2/2013 10:40:23 AM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 466
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 11:05:07 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
I don't want to sound like a totally tiresome tit (too late!) but one of Charlie Brooker’s smug guests last night smirkingly suggested that Skyfall (and, by extension, the Bond series generally) has no subtext or hidden meanings. This is patently absurd. What was that parliamentary enquiry set piece (!) which openly challenged Bond’s continued relevance in the modern world as a spy, a character and as a franchise if not [PRETENTIOUS WINDBAG ALERT!] blatently metatextual? In the middle of a Bond film!?! In the middle of a gunfight even?

Indeed, Craig’s first three Bond films (The “Bond Begins” Trilogy) have been a clever, sometimes surprisingly subtle (too subtle for some) exercise in re-positioning Bond - a relic of the Cold War - in the 21st Century while gradually re-establishing the old Bond, bit by iconic bit.

It’s not a coincidence that Skyfall ends where Dr No begins. In an exact replica of M’s office from the Connery films. Even the “new MI6” looks like the old MI6 we first saw in Goldfinger. With a crusty, male M and a faithful, flirtatious Moneypenny (not to mention good, not-so-old Q) in place and with Vesper, Old M and Skyfall (metaphorically Bond’s wife, mother and unhappy childhood - which he symbolically and deliberately burns to the ground) now gone, Bond no longer has any ties to his past, emotional or physical, and is ready to do (more traditional?) business “with pleasure.” 007 reporting for duty, indeed.

No subtext or hidden depths, my arse! You see what you want to see, I suppose. But as no less an authority than Kim Newman (Gawd bless yer, sir!) has pointed out, no film is devoid of subtext. Even the most brainless horror movie, lunk-headed action flick or cynical franchise ca$h-in has hidden depths whether deliberate or not.

James Bond: The Legacy (the definition of a coffee table book!) is a brilliant study of the Bond series as a cultural phenomenon which, by putting the whole thing in historical context, reveals how surprisingly prescient and progressive (yes, progressive) even the most outlandish Bond films have always been – The Spy Who Loved Me anticipated détente the same way Blofeld anticipated bin Laden! Think you know everything there is to know about Bond? Well guess again cos this book is a real (Golden)eye-opener.

Some people (mystifyingly smug telly pundits and belligerently disgruntled fanboys alike) simply don’t pay enough attention or know a good thing when they see it. Their loss. From action to acting, set-piece to script, Skyfall simply reeks of class – nobody does it better! – and sets the bar very high for the next 50 years. Maybe too high? Only time will tell. But one thing is certain…

James Bond will return.


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 22/2/2013 11:13:12 AM >

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 467
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 11:07:55 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: jobloffski

I have no problem with the supposed dark knight parallel of Silva needing to be caught for his plan to work with presumed chance to escape being part of the plan. Why? Because in film after film Bond has operated the exact same plan: kick up a storm until the person you are after sends people after you. Get captured in order to get to the heart of the operation you are infiltrating. Escape and cause chaosto end whatever it is the target isseeking to achieve.

Silva was clearly being 'bond in reverse' as part of the entire thrust of the narrative. Additionally Silva knew everything about the secret base he was seeking to to infiltrate under the guise of being caught and helpless so naturally his path to kicking up a shitstorm to shake up his target was a little more planned out than Bondian infilltration.




Oh, I like that. Subtle and clever. Good call, you pretentious windbag you.

(in reply to jobloffski)
Post #: 468
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 22/2/2013 11:15:35 AM   
Porrohman


Posts: 632
Joined: 3/10/2005
From: Nottingham

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

Really? From that height? Without a wire or a fast descender or something? What was his name - Iron Baws McGinty?




(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 469
RE: Brilliant - 22/2/2013 11:30:18 AM   
Professor Dent

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 22/1/2013
To answer, why so serious, they don't call him Daniel 'Chuckles' Craig do they?

Unlike other Bonds like YOLT, SF demands to be taken seriously. Anyway, YOLT I saw as a kid so I give it some leeway. It doesn't ask you agonise on behalf of the hero's inner pain.

I want a Craig film to be as credible as, oh, something like The Wild Geese. Craig is a Burton type star in my book.

You may as well say, well, why not have the inmates burst into song in The Great Escape. After all, The Sound of Music is set around the same time, and they burst into song. Or why not Schindler's List, have someone escape from Auschwitz by jumping over the fence on a motorbike.

To me, the Bond films are of a different genre to each other, slightly. I personally don't hate the gondola ride in MR, but if placed at the end of FRWL, when Bond and Tatiana are finally attacked by Spectre goons in a last ditch attempt, I would hate it beyond all passion.

(in reply to manwihtheplan)
Post #: 470
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 11:32:43 AM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013
To return to the topic of movie influences, I'm not sure if you've already listened to Mendes' commentary track on the movie, but apparently one of the many influences on some of the camerawork (particularly the longer shots) was Chinatown. Woo-hoo! I also loved the scene where Bond is off the grid and is at the bar in the very early morning; it reminded me of when Popeye Doyle wakes up in the bar in The French Connection. I know it was done even before then, but Popeye being my favourite male character (despite what I've called myself here) I did have a smile on my face in the cinema at that scene. Such a classic way to show a character hitting rock bottom.

< Message edited by Mr Gittes -- 22/2/2013 11:33:13 AM >

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 471
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 12:13:20 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

To return to the topic of movie influences, I'm not sure if you've already listened to Mendes' commentary track on the movie, but apparently one of the many influences on some of the camerawork (particularly the longer shots) was Chinatown. Woo-hoo! I also loved the scene where Bond is off the grid and is at the bar in the very early morning; it reminded me of when Popeye Doyle wakes up in the bar in The French Connection. I know it was done even before then, but Popeye being my favourite male character (despite what I've called myself here) I did have a smile on my face in the cinema at that scene. Such a classic way to show a character hitting rock bottom.


It was the jiggery pokery on the underground which reminded me of The French Connection. Carlito's Way too. But with Bond's alcohol-fuelled soul-searching of late you've also got me thinking Bogart in Casablanca now. And speaking of "ugly" screen icons, don't tell me Craig doesn't look like Steve McQueen on that motorbike...

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 22/2/2013 12:16:33 PM >

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 472
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 7:10:34 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

To return to the topic of movie influences, I'm not sure if you've already listened to Mendes' commentary track on the movie, but apparently one of the many influences on some of the camerawork (particularly the longer shots) was Chinatown. Woo-hoo! I also loved the scene where Bond is off the grid and is at the bar in the very early morning; it reminded me of when Popeye Doyle wakes up in the bar in The French Connection. I know it was done even before then, but Popeye being my favourite male character (despite what I've called myself here) I did have a smile on my face in the cinema at that scene. Such a classic way to show a character hitting rock bottom.


It was the jiggery pokery on the underground which reminded me of The French Connection. Carlito's Way too. But with Bond's alcohol-fuelled soul-searching of late you've also got me thinking Bogart in Casablanca now. And speaking of "ugly" screen icons, don't tell me Craig doesn't look like Steve McQueen on that motorbike...

Agree on all counts. The "ugly" screen icons are the best in my opinion.

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 473
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 22/2/2013 10:09:35 PM   
JohnChard

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 22/10/2009
From: Birmingham

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxlReznor

(instead of him finding their secret hide-out and having an epic showdown, he retreats to his own hideout, and has a far smaller scale showdown).


Yes, totally agree, as I put in my own review, all turf in Bond movies tends to be his turf, but this time it really was HIS turf, and he kicked arse whilst also exorcising some demons of the past.

Great to see some sensible adult posts forming here.

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Post #: 474
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 22/2/2013 10:22:06 PM   
gunstar


Posts: 962
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Star Lite Star Bright Trailer Park
Thought it was great up until they got off the island, from then on the rest of the film was seriously underwhelming and the climax was weak. Very pretty though.

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Post #: 475
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 10:25:44 PM   
JohnChard

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 22/10/2009
From: Birmingham
To me it's quite simple.

This is a new era of James Bond, those still thinking that the days of Sean and Roger will return are merely kidding themselves, it's never going to happen, the world has changed too much. The best these people will get is the referencing and nods to the past that Skyfall does so wonderfully well. It doesn't matter how much of a Bond fan you think you are, an expert on what is good for Bond, best Bonds etc etc, fact is, move and buy into this new era of Bond or stop watching the franchise or at the least, buy a time machine...

Skyfall has made over 900 million in profit, I'm afraid those are figures that simply do not lie in any shape or form, evidently a LOT of people buy into this new era Bond!

And the Craig haters can't cope with it :-)

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Post #: 476
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 11:11:26 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnChard

To me it's quite simple.

This is a new era of James Bond, those still thinking that the days of Sean and Roger will return are merely kidding themselves, it's never going to happen, the world has changed too much. The best these people will get is the referencing and nods to the past that Skyfall does so wonderfully well. It doesn't matter how much of a Bond fan you think you are, an expert on what is good for Bond, best Bonds etc etc, fact is, move and buy into this new era of Bond or stop watching the franchise or at the least, buy a time machine...


Or a DVD boxset. It's not like there aren't plenty of Bond films not starring Daniel Craig. I've got twenty of 'em right here.


quote:

Skyfall has made over 900 million in profit, I'm afraid those are figures that simply do not lie in any shape or form, evidently a LOT of people buy into this new era Bond!


That is a lot of mindless sheep - BAAA...!!!


quote:

And the Craig haters can't cope with it :-)


Which is grimly amusing if nothing else.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 22/2/2013 11:15:29 PM >

(in reply to JohnChard)
Post #: 477
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 22/2/2013 11:18:31 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnChard

Great to see some sensible adult posts forming here.


Do you think it'll catch on?

(in reply to JohnChard)
Post #: 478
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 11:20:49 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

To return to the topic of movie influences, I'm not sure if you've already listened to Mendes' commentary track on the movie, but apparently one of the many influences on some of the camerawork (particularly the longer shots) was Chinatown. Woo-hoo! I also loved the scene where Bond is off the grid and is at the bar in the very early morning; it reminded me of when Popeye Doyle wakes up in the bar in The French Connection. I know it was done even before then, but Popeye being my favourite male character (despite what I've called myself here) I did have a smile on my face in the cinema at that scene. Such a classic way to show a character hitting rock bottom.


It was the jiggery pokery on the underground which reminded me of The French Connection. Carlito's Way too. But with Bond's alcohol-fuelled soul-searching of late you've also got me thinking Bogart in Casablanca now. And speaking of "ugly" screen icons, don't tell me Craig doesn't look like Steve McQueen on that motorbike...

Agree on all counts. The "ugly" screen icons are the best in my opinion.


As Frank Zappa said: "There are more of us ugly motherfuckers than you!"

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 479
RE: Skyfall - 22/2/2013 11:37:45 PM   
JohnChard

 

Posts: 179
Joined: 22/10/2009
From: Birmingham

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby

Or a DVD boxset. It's not like there aren't plenty of Bond films not starring Daniel Craig. I've got twenty of 'em right here.


Me too, Chris, they come packaged in a nice shiny box set as well that I like to stroke occasionally...

:-)




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"Out you get Hooky, you`ve done your bit"

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 480
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