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hugely disappointed - 5/1/2013 1:13:03 AM   
AJRtennis

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/1/2013
Couldn't wait to see Skyfall. Loved Casino Royale & Quantum of Solace. This however was a yawn from start to finish . The worst Bond film ever! Hardly a Bond film at all. More an M. film. If you want to watch 2hrs of Judi Dench playing grumpy (see everything she's ever been in) then you'll love this. Ever since Pierce "squint & pout" Brosnan began his tenure as Bond we've had to endure Dench being shoehorned into Bond films popping up in the field here, there and everywhere, looking over Bonds shoulder, pestering and nagging him. Now old sour face has taken over an entire film, leaving Craig a rather bored looking supporting actor. I literally punched the air and cheered when she died. Pure joy and relief!! What a tremendously versatile actress Dench is. She can play anything from posh, aloof and grumpy with a heart of gold, to posh, aloof and irritated, with a heart of gold, to posh, aloof and angry with a heart of gold. Sometimes she's just posh and aloof. And all delivered with that lovely warm, friendly voice of hers. As though channelling Celia Johnson in Brief Encounter. A regular acting chameleon. Meryl Streep must be green with envy! The last 2 mins were great and reminded me of vintage Bond (that padded door and familiar coat stand). I enjoyed the introductions of the new M & Moneypenny. Some of the cinematography was stunning. Also, the opening sequence was entertaining.(the very least you'd expect after such a long wait) They are the good points. This franchise really needed a good action director to deliver the goods but instead we got Sam Mendes. Oh dear. Don't pay homage to old Bond films, create new iconic moments.Bond met with the new Q. Usually a moment of light relief in any Bond. Their conversation was so dull I nearly fell asleep! The meeting of Bond and Silva was just as riveting. And what happened to the close quarter Bourne style fighting? In one scene Bond swings a suitcase at a burly henchman. Embarrassing! What next? Handbags?! The new, more realistic style of fighting had restored some credibility to Bond after years of fighting like a wuss (Brosnan). Clearly the budget didn't stretch to a fight choreographer. And did they have to go on and on and on about how knackered and clapped out poor old Bond is. Did he get his licence to kill two films ago or twenty films ago?? Just get on with the film. It was slow, dreary and a massive let down. A Bond and his mum film. Like watching a particularly naff episode of spooks. Who are these brainless sheep, gushing over this crap and giving 4&5 star reviews? Not a patch on his first two and a huge step backwards. We had a nod to Moores alligator escape from Live and Let die, a nod to Connery with the old Aston Martin (how did that make any sense???) Why not have Craig dye his hair black and grow a mullet as a nod to Brosnan in Goldeneye? Where are the moments we will remember from Skyfall?? Heaven forbid we should have a gadget or gizmo, or an interesting quirky henchman. That would be uncool wouldnt it. James Bond has become James Bland!! Finally a tip for elderly MI6 bosses trying to evade capture by camp, disfigured lunatics in the Scottish wilderness at night. Don't make your way straight towards the nearest and only other building for miles around. Hide behind a bush and slowly crawl away. You may get a thistle or two stuck in your arse but you'll live a little longer. On second thoughts......By the way, on the subject of tenuous film references, surely the big one that's been overlooked is Father of the Bride. The great Steve Martin stands in his attic gyrating to Tom Jones "What's new pussycat" in a tight fitting suit. Rather like the one Bond's sporting on the DVD cover. Indeed , I believe Mendes even mentions it on the audio commentary.

< Message edited by AJRtennis -- 12/1/2013 1:22:22 AM >

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Post #: 421
RE: hugely disappointed - 22/1/2013 3:41:12 PM   
Professor Dent

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 22/1/2013
Agree. It's very odd - Skyfall is meant to be a serious Bond film, yet I find myself nitpicking the plotholes far more than I ever did with a film like Moonraker. After the initial excitement, something inside me dies when I hear the dialogue and see something go awry. It's like when you're looking forward to a date with a fit girl and within two minutes of arriving she's said something dumb that is a real dealbreaker...

(in reply to AJRtennis)
Post #: 422
RE: hugely disappointed - 30/1/2013 6:28:26 PM   
Willy Wood

 

Posts: 127
Joined: 28/1/2013
Schizo Bond, all over the shop, wish I'd have just waited for the DVD, 2.5 out of 5, the reviewers were very favourable to this film.

(in reply to Professor Dent)
Post #: 423
The spy who bummed me - 1/2/2013 4:43:23 AM   
RLTShirley

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 30/5/2009
Daniel Craig is not hard and a boss eyed jug eared twat. 
When he runs he looks like he has cerebal paulsy. 
There are NO car chases. 
At one point bond randomly starts fighting the rancour from jabas palace. This is never explained. 
Most of the plot seems like it was worked out during filming. 
The bad guy is a gay Spanish weirdo who's backstory makes no sense. 
It is impossible to emotionally invest in any of the characters because they are all boring one dimensional cliches. 
There is NO character development. Half of the characters don't even have names and only exist to explain plot points. 
Mi6 have computers that make giant weird spiderweb code things which then for no reason turn into maps of stuff yet they lack the technology to trace YouTube videos. 
Most of the movie is bond looking hungover and being a shit aim until he has a shave and gets his skills back. The third act is like a weird low budget Rambo meets Home Alone when bond decides to go hide at his granddads house instead of the massive underground bunker full of secret agents and military. 
Overall I give 'Skyfall' 2/5 because the bit with the oldskool db5 was cool and I like the theme tune. 

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Post #: 424
RE: Skyfall - 5/2/2013 10:29:33 PM   
rich


Posts: 5096
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Neo Kobe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RLTShirley

When he runs he looks like he has cerebal paulsy. 



And they say wit is dead.


Thread title reset. Seriously.

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Post #: 425
RE: The spy who bummed me - 5/2/2013 10:48:38 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: RLTShirley

Daniel Craig is not hard and a boss eyed jug eared twat. 
When he runs he looks like he has cerebal paulsy. 
There are NO car chases. 
At one point bond randomly starts fighting the rancour from jabas palace. This is never explained. 
Most of the plot seems like it was worked out during filming. 
The bad guy is a gay Spanish weirdo who's backstory makes no sense. 
It is impossible to emotionally invest in any of the characters because they are all boring one dimensional cliches. 
There is NO character development. Half of the characters don't even have names and only exist to explain plot points. 
Mi6 have computers that make giant weird spiderweb code things which then for no reason turn into maps of stuff yet they lack the technology to trace YouTube videos. 
Most of the movie is bond looking hungover and being a shit aim until he has a shave and gets his skills back. The third act is like a weird low budget Rambo meets Home Alone when bond decides to go hide at his granddads house instead of the massive underground bunker full of secret agents and military. 
Overall I give 'Skyfall' 2/5 because the bit with the oldskool db5 was cool and I like the theme tune. 


I found some of these quite funny

(in reply to RLTShirley)
Post #: 426
RE: The spy who bummed me - 7/2/2013 11:22:13 AM   
CRUNT

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 5/2/2013
So the bad guy planned all that to escape, even the train arriving on time to crash through the hole left by the explosion. Better than Quantum, but like that train, totally went of the rails in the last hour 45 mins

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Post #: 427
- 8/2/2013 7:14:06 PM   
danfacey711

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 18/10/2008
From: Oxford
Original, exciting, clever and stylish.

A return to top class form for Bond with all the subtle nods any Bond fan would love.

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Post #: 428
RE: RE: - 9/2/2013 8:20:00 PM   
Hood_Man


Posts: 12192
Joined: 30/9/2005
quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

Unoriginal, dreary, lame shite! Typical Sam Mendes. If u wanna see a Judi Dench film go see Best Exotic Marigold Hotel. The action scenes are better! Yet another brainless sheep gushing over this dismal film.

http://images.wikia.com/thehungergames/images/c/c2/Michael-What-the-office-10400786-400-226.gif
Post #: 429
RE: RE: - 9/2/2013 9:21:38 PM   
MonsterCat


Posts: 7934
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

Yet another brainless sheep gushing over this dismal film.


le sigh.

_____________________________

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Films watched in 2013
Post #: 430
RE: RE: - 11/2/2013 5:47:21 PM   
ongbakdan


Posts: 185
Joined: 25/7/2006

quote:

ORIGINAL: MonsterCat


quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

Yet another brainless sheep gushing over this dismal film.


le sigh.


baaarrrrrrrrrrrrr

_____________________________

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Post #: 431
Now it makes sense - 12/2/2013 9:13:15 PM   
AJRtennis

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/1/2013
Just why did Bond leave the safety of an underground bunker and decide to take a vintage Aston Martin for a spin from London to Scotland with M In tow? The answer is simple. He wanted to kill 3 birds with one stone. Firstly, he wanted to sell the family home in Scotland, but an elderly squatter with a gun had taken residence and was proving hard to dislodge. Secondly, he wanted the insurance money from the DB5. And lastly, after years of being pestered and nagged constantly he wanted rid of his boss once and for all. And all this without getting his hands dirty. So to all you who thought the ending was just bloody ludicrous and nonsensical, there you go. There was method in his madness. He wasn't just sitting in a dusty old house waiting to be shot to pieces and blown up. Oh how the Dench demographic will miss old M. I speak of course about the 60-dead yr. olds who flocked to see this film. That lovely voice, those porcine features, hospital haircut and skin you'd usually only see on a scrotum. R.I.P. M.

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Post #: 432
''JAW DROPPING '' - 13/2/2013 5:20:38 PM   
soulfood

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 6/10/2005
This is one of best bond movie with Daniel Craig ,
One of best Movie of 2012.

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Post #: 433
Bond disappears up its own arse - 18/2/2013 11:22:22 PM   
spilsburt

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 22/10/2007
A crap villian with no henchman, Two crap gadgets, no real car chase and disposing of the bad guys with an awful McCaulay Culkin style finish- Kevin did it much better than Bond BTW. I think Bond has finally disappeared up its own arse and forgotten that above anything else it should be about fun!
I want crazy gadgets, freaky henchmen and ridiculous car chases. Perhaps this was all necessary to clear the ground for some cool stuff in the next film, but i doubt it :-(

PS introducing the F word ruined any chance of this being a quality father/son film....

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Post #: 434
Bond disappears up its own arse - 18/2/2013 11:22:43 PM   
spilsburt

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 22/10/2007
A crap villian with no henchman, Two crap gadgets, no real car chase and disposing of the bad guys with an awful McCaulay Culkin style finish- Kevin did it much better than Bond BTW. I think Bond has finally disappeared up its own arse and forgotten that above anything else it should be about fun!
I want crazy gadgets, freaky henchmen and ridiculous car chases. Perhaps this was all necessary to clear the ground for some cool stuff in the next film, but i doubt it :-(

PS introducing the F word ruined any chance of this being a quality father/son film....

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Post #: 435
RE: Bond disappears up its own arse - 19/2/2013 12:07:09 AM   
Private Hudson


Posts: 1840
Joined: 30/9/2005
I wasn't too impressed on the silver screen but after watching it on DVD tonight I actually enjoyed it a lot more.

Here's to Bond 24.

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Post #: 436
RE: hugely disappointed - 19/2/2013 7:18:05 PM   
Private Hudson


Posts: 1840
Joined: 30/9/2005
I know what you are saying. The recent films are ditching too much of what made it work over the last 50 years, however I suppose they did have to freshen things up, and after Skyfall we have all the traditional elements in place: M, Q & Moneypenny.

So I think it is a bit like New Coke. People got fed up with Coca Cola and wanted something different. Pepsi were hard on their heels and ready to go number 1. When they brought out New Coke it was too much like Pepsi (who did go to number 1) and people longed for old Coke or Classic Coke as it is now called. The end result was old Coke broke sales records left right and centre. New Coke was scrapped but it did its job... it made the public long for old Coke and put Pepsi back in their place.

So the success of Skyfall is mainly down to the 50th anniversary and also people longing for and getting most of the traditional elements back. Ou tof DC's 3 Bonds this is by far the most traditional. Casino Royale was different, but it did follow the book closely when we got to the actual Casino. Quantum of Solace was certainly the most un-Bondian film ever. It had a character called James Bond in it and tried to have 007 elements such as an aesthetically pleasing villain's lair but it was like a copy of Bond and not the real thing.

Skyfall did approximate something like a classic Bond adventure. And I actually liked the fact that more time was spent in the UK for a change. Though we do need a return to globetrotting and I do want to see the return of Quantum. I am fed up with bad guys who are out for revenge. Can we not get bad guys who just want to be bad and hold the world to ransom? At least Quantum have that old fashioned feel to them.

I was not too pleased when I saw it in the cinema but after watching it last night on DVD it was better than I first thought. And ok so we have a gunbarrel, but please put it at the start for Bond 24 because he really, really IS James Bond now!

_____________________________

Watch my spoof movie of FULL METAL JACKET here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCGRWVvM-Zo&feature=plcp&context=C31ca298UDOEgsToPDskJ4_UorjolrWTaxEGMj5GO0

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Post #: 437
RE: Skyfall - 19/2/2013 8:21:00 PM   
Jaykg06

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 19/2/2013
Maybe more about product placement, as i think films are rife with it.

Those that saw the film, what did you think? can you help me out with my dissertation on product placement? cheeky 5 minute questionnaire here:

http://www.surveyexpression.com/Survey.aspx?id=c5fda6f3-5fb8-448a-8366-c5e250122b77

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Post #: 438
One of the best Bond movies ever made - 20/2/2013 2:59:24 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013
Daniel Craig shows once again that he is Ian Fleming's 007 through and through (although I still prefer the cinematic Bond of Connery, to those who were thinking of me as a pretentious twat), Sam Mendes proves to be an inspired choice for director, Javier Bardem is instantly one of the greatest Bond villains ever, not to mention the entire cast is sublime, and the script is wonderfully sharp. However, the real show stealer is Roger Deakins' stunning cinematography which was jaw-dropping on the big screen, not to mention on the terrific blu-ray (if he doesn't win the Oscar this year, I'm going to lose my mind). 9/10 for me. Not my favourite Bond flick but definitely in my top five. Fantastic movie.

But, I wish I could have made a bet that most of the people on this thread would tear the movie apart. After all, as is the case with Nolan and Spielberg, anything that is popular in these times is immediately unpopular. Such is the case with this current wave on the Internet of people who talk about plot holes as if they are a serious flaw in a movie's quality. And boy do they love to throw around the word "overrated".

If you honestly just didn't connect with this movie, then I'm not taking a dig against you. But anyone who's spent a mere five minutes surfing through threads like these discussing critically successful modern blockbusters will know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes, they make an entertaining read; other times, they can just be tiresome. This is a case of the latter, as I genuinely enjoyed this movie.

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Post #: 439
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 20/2/2013 6:30:03 PM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
I’ve been re-watching (and re-watching) Skyfall on bluray and it’s still great, standing up to repeat viewings remarkably well. Still not sure about the whole “Best Bond EVAH!” thing though. That still strikes me as a tad premature. Time will tell. But what’s not in doubt is the next Bond film really has its work cut out. So I hope EON take their time and don’t rush into anything if they want to avoid a(n inevitable?) backlash.

But what really struck me on repeat viewings was just how many references there were to Bond’s cinematic (and literary) past, virtually to every Bond film. And what’s remarkable is, this self-referencing isn’t distracting and doesn’t get in the way of the storytelling like it did in Die Another Day which, frankly, looks like a Roger Moore Bond film by comparison.

M’s and Moneypenny’s offices at the end are exact replicas of the originals in Dr No, right down to the padded leatherette door.

The train and Istanbul locations at the start evoke From Russia With Love as do the Scottish locations - which are supposed to be Scotland this time! There is a virtually mute henchman and Bond IS Red Grant – the apotheosis of Michael G Wilson’s Robert Shaw obsession and endless succession of Red Grant clones since For Your Eyes Only. And the opening bars of Thomas Newman’s score directly quote John Barry’s first Bond score.

The Aston Martin, homing device and Bond’s line, “You must be joking,” are obvious nods to Goldfinger. The “new MI6” looks remarkably like the old MI6, Q’s workshop especially. And the villain adopts a uniform disguise.

Bond gets packed off to recuperate as in Thunderball.

Bond’s symbolic death and resurrection come straight out of You Only Live Twice, as does Bond’s obituary. (Why on earth would a secret agent warrant a newspaper obit?) Skyfall’s death-obsessed villain echoes the morbid Blofeld of Fleming’s novel. The “exotic” Far East locations and it’s Bond’s house which gets stormed at the end rather than the villain’s secret base.

Bond’s tears (Silva’s too) are pure On Her Majesty’s Secret Service as is Bond’s crisis of confidence, M’s loss of faith in him and the tragic ending with a woman dying in his arms. Indeed, all three Craig Bond films are suffused with OHMSS’s adult themes of loss and regret as well as real, grown-up emotion. I always said OHMSS was ahead of its time!

The overtly gay villain is reminiscent of Diamonds Are Forever.

Skyfall shares Live and Let Die’s morbid obsession with death imagery, especially the title sequence’s skulls. And Bond uses that komodo dragon as a stepping stone just like LALD’s crocs.

As in The Man With The Golden Gun, the villain’s terrified “girlfriend” wants Bond to kill him for her. Plus Silva tries to kill M just like the brainwashed Bond does in Fleming’s novel, emphasising how Silva is 007's evil doppelganger.

Bond survives what really should be a fatal fall just like The Spy Who Loved Me’s pre-title sequence.

Bond’s handy with a shotgun like he was in Moonraker.

Bond says “For her eyes only.” And Skyfall shares For Your Eyes Only’s back to basics approach.

Skyfall seems to have the same problem keeping track of its hard drive McGuffin that Octopussy had keeping tabs on its Faberge eggs. There's a big punch-up on a speeding train.

Skyfall’s outrageously camp, effete, blond villain is not unlike Christopher Walken in A View To A Kill.

Daniel Craig’s hard-edged, haunted Bond is very much Timothy Dalton Mark II as seen in The Living Daylights and (especially) Licence To Kill which remains the most Flemingesque Bond film of all – ironic as it was the first one made after they’d run out of Fleming novels to adapt. Like Licence To Kill, Skyfall is a personal revenge plot. Bond goes way off-piste, fucks up and gets people killed. Whoops. Oh, and Bond has a gun which only accepts his palm print. No exploding toothpaste, though. Shame.

Silva’s abandoned city base is reminiscent of Goldeneye’s symbolic graveyard of broken Soviet statues. Silva is another rogue agent – Bond gone bad, basically. Bond doesn’t get off to the best of starts with the new M. And cyberterrorism (THE modern thriller cliché du jour and the curse of current action cinema generally) rears its ugly head in a Bond film once again. The only things Bond should ever have his hands on are booze, birds and bullets not bleedin’ laptops! Strictly speaking Silva should be a lot older than Bond. Javier Bardem is too young to have been M's "favourite" in the 80s and 90s the same way Sean Bean was too young to have plausibly been the son of Lienz Cossacks executed in the immediate aftermath of WWII.

Skyfall’s rooftop motorbike chase echoes Tomorrow Never Dies and there’s a reference to Hong Kong’s handover in 1997.

Bond is plagued by injury throughout like he was in The World Is Not Enough. Silva’s vaguely classical/Oedipal plot echoes TWINE’s literal Elektra plot. M is central to events. There is an attack on MI6’s headquarters. And Craig nonchalantly adjusting his cuffs in the most incongruous situations is pure Brosnan.

Just as Quantum of Solace was a remake of Licence To Kill, Skyfall is Die Another Day without the invisible car and subtler references to Bond’s back catalogue. There’s a scorpion. And Bond swims under ice.

Bond gets tied to a chair by a sexually ambiguous villain just like Casino Royale, although thankfully this time his knackers remain intact. And the DB5 reveal directly quotes David Arnold’s Casino Royale score.

Bond has the same abrasive relationship with M that he had in Quantum of Solace. M doesn’t trust him. Bond never smiles. Like some people on 'ere. Quite a lot of people actually...

Oh, and the superb, artily-shot Shanghai silhouette fight looks like an old Maurice Binder title sequence.

But Skyfall doesn’t just homage Bond's own heritage. There are references throughout to:

The Dark Knight
The Silence of the Lambs
The Usual Suspects
Lawrence of Arabia/The Rocky Horror Picture Show (Silva’s entrance – oo-er.)

The Deer Hunter
Apocalypse Now/Predator
Witness
Straw Dogs
Rio Bravo/Assault on Precinct 13

Blade Runner
Inception

Harry Palmer
Harry Potter
Damien: Omen II/Cliffhanger
The French Connection/Carlito’s Way
Mission: Impossible (identical McGuffin)

Shakespeare (King Lear)
Tennyson (obviously)
William Tell (or was that William Burroughs – a great writer but a lousy shot.)

Not to mention the John Buchan and Sapper stories which clearly inspired Ian Fleming in the first place

And Revenge of the Sith’s music when Bond’s dangling from that lift. Phew!

The more I think about it, that gunbarrel at the end which proved so controversial for uptight, angry types who really need to get out the house more (sexual frustration's a bitch, isn't it?), whether by accident or design, was in exactly the right place after all. The end of Skyfall, the end of the unofficial "Bond Begins Trilogy" really does mark a new beginning for the series. I think we can probably expect a return to some good old-fashioned Bondage next time - outrageous plots, outlandish henchmen, hollowed-out volcanoes and all.

James Bond WILL return. As surely as shrill, know-nothing, pain-in-the-arse fanboys with their bafflingly proprietorial sense of ownership and amusingly whining sense of entitlement will moan about it. Probably before they've even seen it. You guys do know how ridiculous you sound, don't you? Don't you? Why so serious? It is only a movie, after all.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 22/2/2013 4:34:12 PM >

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 440
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 20/2/2013 9:37:13 PM   
musht


Posts: 1881
Joined: 21/1/2009
From: Oireland

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

Daniel Craig shows once again that he is Ian Fleming's 007 through and through (although I still prefer the cinematic Bond of Connery, to those who were thinking of me as a pretentious twat), Sam Mendes proves to be an inspired choice for director, Javier Bardem is instantly one of the greatest Bond villains ever, not to mention the entire cast is sublime, and the script is wonderfully sharp. However, the real show stealer is Roger Deakins' stunning cinematography which was jaw-dropping on the big screen, not to mention on the terrific blu-ray (if he doesn't win the Oscar this year, I'm going to lose my mind). 9/10 for me. Not my favourite Bond flick but definitely in my top five. Fantastic movie.

But, I wish I could have made a bet that most of the people on this thread would tear the movie apart. After all, as is the case with Nolan and Spielberg, anything that is popular in these times is immediately unpopular. Such is the case with this current wave on the Internet of people who talk about plot holes as if they are a serious flaw in a movie's quality. And boy do they love to throw around the word "overrated".

If you honestly just didn't connect with this movie, then I'm not taking a dig against you. But anyone who's spent a mere five minutes surfing through threads like these discussing critically successful modern blockbusters will know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes, they make an entertaining read; other times, they can just be tiresome. This is a case of the latter, as I genuinely enjoyed this movie.

I think you're being a bit harsh on critics of this film. Of course a lot of people are not liking this because of it's popularity or for other stupid reason (Craig's blond) but there are people out there (such as myself) who like this film but don't think it deserved a BAFTA for Best British Film.

For instance regarding your points above; I did not think that the entire cast was sublime. Naomi Harris was weak however I think that was mainly due to the writing of her character who was actually an unnecessary presence in most of the film. I get that they were trying to establish the rapport between the characters but I don't think we need a back story to every single character. I would've been quite happy if she'd just appeared at the end, it would have been a pleasant surprise. But instead we got all the speculation and a cringingly bad reveal to a twist that most people would have seen coming. The script was sharp in most parts but that reveal ("I don't believe we've been formerly introduced") was shocking. How could they have been working on that pre-credit mission without knowing each other's names.

Javier Bardem is fantastic. His opening monologue is pure gold but it doesn't make up for the fact that Silva is only a good Bond Villain. I appreciate that people like him for the contradiction he is to Bond and the themes he raises but on the face of it his motivation and his end game are extremely disappointing. Let's look at the facts; he has the power to take over a whole island, hack the MI6 gas supply, steal the hard drive (we're just going to ignore that? OK ), he can do all this but he can't kill a woman in her late 70s. Bond is renowned for its ridiculous plots; diamond laser satellites, world war 3 to boost your media network, etc, etc. I don't really understand how damning up the Bolivian water supply gets slated for being a shit story but a one man mission to assassinate a geriatric is the best Bond film ever. The Bolivian water hoarding was weak but it QoS was about so much more than that, it was part of a much larger Quantum operation which we, the audience are not yet privy to. Silva's plan was not part of something bigger, it could've been, given the plot with the stolen hard drive it would have been possible for them to incorporate it into the Quantum group and have Silva go on his own vendetta but they didn't. His vendetta is the plot and I probably would've been fine with that but the film is over 2 hours long and after all that time and build up the final climax left me with a feeling of "Is that it?".

I can understand your frustration with people tearing it apart and being overly critical. I have the same frustrations when it comes to QoS which I feel is extremely underrated as a Bond film. Skyfall is very good; as you said the cinematography is amazing, as is the directing, and the acting (for the most part) but for me it doesn't quite pull together into the great film that everyone else seems to see.

I hope that this post doesn't come across as trolling are trying to start an argument because it wasn't intended that way but your comments on the current trend of people not liking films because it's the unpopular thing to do got me thinking about other threads for similar points have been raised and I can't help but feel that this trend (which unfortunately does exist) has led to another trend of people automatically labelling people who don't like popular films as trolls. I'm not accusing you of doing that I just wanted to defend the people who are genuine in not thinking this is the greatest Bond film of all time.

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(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 441
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 20/2/2013 11:56:14 PM   
Deviation


Posts: 27284
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Enemies of Film HQ

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht

Javier Bardem is fantastic. His opening monologue is pure gold but it doesn't make up for the fact that Silva is only a good Bond Villain. I appreciate that people like him for the contradiction he is to Bond and the themes he raises but on the face of it his motivation and his end game are extremely disappointing. Let's look at the facts; he has the power to take over a whole island, hack the MI6 gas supply, steal the hard drive (we're just going to ignore that? OK ), he can do all this but he can't kill a woman in her late 70s.


That women was M though and he wanted a very specific way of killing her, it's going to be harder since what he has to go through to actually get to her.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dpp1978
There are certainly times where calling a person a cunt is not only reasonable, it is a gross understatement.

quote:


ORIGINAL: elab49
I really wish I could go down to see Privates

(in reply to musht)
Post #: 442
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 20/2/2013 11:57:05 PM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: musht


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

Daniel Craig shows once again that he is Ian Fleming's 007 through and through (although I still prefer the cinematic Bond of Connery, to those who were thinking of me as a pretentious twat), Sam Mendes proves to be an inspired choice for director, Javier Bardem is instantly one of the greatest Bond villains ever, not to mention the entire cast is sublime, and the script is wonderfully sharp. However, the real show stealer is Roger Deakins' stunning cinematography which was jaw-dropping on the big screen, not to mention on the terrific blu-ray (if he doesn't win the Oscar this year, I'm going to lose my mind). 9/10 for me. Not my favourite Bond flick but definitely in my top five. Fantastic movie.

But, I wish I could have made a bet that most of the people on this thread would tear the movie apart. After all, as is the case with Nolan and Spielberg, anything that is popular in these times is immediately unpopular. Such is the case with this current wave on the Internet of people who talk about plot holes as if they are a serious flaw in a movie's quality. And boy do they love to throw around the word "overrated".

If you honestly just didn't connect with this movie, then I'm not taking a dig against you. But anyone who's spent a mere five minutes surfing through threads like these discussing critically successful modern blockbusters will know exactly what I'm talking about. Sometimes, they make an entertaining read; other times, they can just be tiresome. This is a case of the latter, as I genuinely enjoyed this movie.

I think you're being a bit harsh on critics of this film. Of course a lot of people are not liking this because of it's popularity or for other stupid reason (Craig's blond) but there are people out there (such as myself) who like this film but don't think it deserved a BAFTA for Best British Film.

For instance regarding your points above; I did not think that the entire cast was sublime. Naomi Harris was weak however I think that was mainly due to the writing of her character who was actually an unnecessary presence in most of the film. I get that they were trying to establish the rapport between the characters but I don't think we need a back story to every single character. I would've been quite happy if she'd just appeared at the end, it would have been a pleasant surprise. But instead we got all the speculation and a cringingly bad reveal to a twist that most people would have seen coming. The script was sharp in most parts but that reveal ("I don't believe we've been formerly introduced") was shocking. How could they have been working on that pre-credit mission without knowing each other's names.

Javier Bardem is fantastic. His opening monologue is pure gold but it doesn't make up for the fact that Silva is only a good Bond Villain. I appreciate that people like him for the contradiction he is to Bond and the themes he raises but on the face of it his motivation and his end game are extremely disappointing. Let's look at the facts; he has the power to take over a whole island, hack the MI6 gas supply, steal the hard drive (we're just going to ignore that? OK ), he can do all this but he can't kill a woman in her late 70s. Bond is renowned for its ridiculous plots; diamond laser satellites, world war 3 to boost your media network, etc, etc. I don't really understand how damning up the Bolivian water supply gets slated for being a shit story but a one man mission to assassinate a geriatric is the best Bond film ever. The Bolivian water hoarding was weak but it QoS was about so much more than that, it was part of a much larger Quantum operation which we, the audience are not yet privy to. Silva's plan was not part of something bigger, it could've been, given the plot with the stolen hard drive it would have been possible for them to incorporate it into the Quantum group and have Silva go on his own vendetta but they didn't. His vendetta is the plot and I probably would've been fine with that but the film is over 2 hours long and after all that time and build up the final climax left me with a feeling of "Is that it?".

I can understand your frustration with people tearing it apart and being overly critical. I have the same frustrations when it comes to QoS which I feel is extremely underrated as a Bond film. Skyfall is very good; as you said the cinematography is amazing, as is the directing, and the acting (for the most part) but for me it doesn't quite pull together into the great film that everyone else seems to see.

I hope that this post doesn't come across as trolling are trying to start an argument because it wasn't intended that way but your comments on the current trend of people not liking films because it's the unpopular thing to do got me thinking about other threads for similar points have been raised and I can't help but feel that this trend (which unfortunately does exist) has led to another trend of people automatically labelling people who don't like popular films as trolls. I'm not accusing you of doing that I just wanted to defend the people who are genuine in not thinking this is the greatest Bond film of all time.

I must say, I actually loved how comparatively simple the plot was for this one, especially after QoS (even though I also think that one is rather underrated). Silva just wants to kill M? That's fine with me. Better than another end-of-the-world plot, in my opinion. I loved how it was more personal. And I still stand by what I said about Silva as a villain. I mean, at least his motivation was more than just "world domination". And whether he did it personally or not, he will now forever be the villain that killed M. No Bond villain has done anything nearly that big since OHMSS. Even without that mighty achievement, he's still one of my favourite Bond baddies.

You certainly don't come across as trolling and I'm glad you gave such a detailed and intelligent reply; it's not often I see those after all. I'm definitely not saying that it's just trolls who don't like this movie. It's a matter of opinion whether it's good or bad. I despise people who'll hate it and say that whoever likes it are idiots or "brainless sheep", and the same goes the other way. I just got so sick of reading all those troll comments that I had to write something. What can I say? I bite easily.

(in reply to musht)
Post #: 443
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 12:20:08 AM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013
FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 444
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 12:31:26 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

A very lengthy and comprehensive list of previous film references. You could have saved yourself time and simply said Skyfall hasn't a spark of originality. And it's fucking boring, depressing, dismal, unimaginative and ludicrous! Without doubt and by some distance, the worst Bond film ever made . Every Bond has gaping plot holes but who gives a shit when they are a fun, exciting rollercoaster ride., packed full of crazy stunts, memorable bad guys and henchmen, beautiful women and great set pieces. Skyfall isn't. It has no style, panache, wit or sense. It's jumped forward 20 films with no explanation and lost any credibility it gained from the reboot. Casino Royale was superb. It worked. This doesn't. Just can't see why certain people are raving about this film like it's some kind of classic. The script is mind numbingly DULL! The new Q has all the charisma of a plastic soap dish. Thank god for Ralph Fiennes and Naomi Harris. At least there's hope for the next one.As for taking this film seriously, there appears to be only one person posting an extremely long and yawn inducing list of film references for no apparent reason. Who's serious??


Yeah, that's what I meant to say. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

O wad some power the giftie ghie us,
Tae see oorsel's as others see us...
Post #: 445
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 1:01:15 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.


Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 21/2/2013 1:03:11 AM >

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
Post #: 446
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 8:12:19 AM   
AxlReznor

 

Posts: 1623
Joined: 2/12/2010
From: Great Britain
quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

No problem. Splendid quote. Very apt. Could I just add, I've no idea what a troll is meant to be, but having read your reviews I've a pretty good idea what a pretentious windbag is.


You. It's you. This is not a good thing.
Post #: 447
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 10:24:09 AM   
Mr Gittes

 

Posts: 574
Joined: 3/2/2013

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.


Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?

(in reply to chris kilby)
Post #: 448
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 11:26:23 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: AJRtennis

Oh I see. A troll is someone who doesn't share the opinions of the army of 5 star gushers. Now I'm clear. Disliking this film isn't just frowned upon. It gets you labelled and dismissed. Fine. I've said my bit and stand by all my comments. An awful lot of people on here take themselves very, very seriously. Must dash. I have a life.



I seriously doubt that. No-one on any online forum is any position to accuse anyone else of not having a life. It's why we're all here isn't it? Those who can, do. Those who can't, blog... * sniff *

Anywho, while I make it a rule never to get sucked into pointless, protracted, unwinnable arguments with charmless online trolls such as yourself (actually, it's more of a guideline than a rule) I really do feel I have to say this again. For about the gazzillionth time...

I personally do not have a problem with anyone disliking anything I like. I genuinely couldn't care less if no-one liked what I like. I'm not an efangelist [sic]. I'm not looking for converts. And I don't expect everyone to agree with me. No, it's the sheer howling negativity and shrieking banality of what passes for most online criticism and debate (for want of a better word) which I take exception to. Much (most?) of it is just so thuddingly dull and witless. You know the sort. People who say things like "Worst. Film. EVER!" without a hint of irony. Or self-awareness.

If you're going to mercilessly shred something in public at least try to do it with a modicum of wit and style. A bit of panache instead of the usual lame put-downs, empty-headed observations, dreary metaphors and thudding (half)witicisms. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how ill-informed, wrong-headed or frankly deranged. And shrill, hectoring, disproportionate, ludicrous, tedious and dull, if that's the best you can come up with you are welcome to it. We all know what opinions are like. Some more than others...

So the next time anyone feels the urge to trash something, I do wish they'd go read a couple of Charlie Brooker books first. That's the way to do it! He slags off stuff I like all the time and I love it cos he's smart and funny about it. There's a lesson for us all there. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. And if you want people to listen and/or take you seriously, it's maybe best if you don't scream and shout quite so much.

Oh, and for the record, hurling personal abuse like "pretentious windbag" at complete strangers for no apparent reason other than daring to be articulate is pretty much the definition of a troll. That and living under a bridge, of course. Thanks for sharing. It really has been an unalloyed pleasure. For me, conversing with informed cineastes and witty raconteurs such as yourself is what the internet is all about.

< Message edited by chris kilby -- 21/2/2013 11:42:37 AM >
Post #: 449
RE: One of the best Bond movies ever made - 21/2/2013 11:35:14 AM   
chris kilby

 

Posts: 1282
Joined: 31/3/2010
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes


quote:

ORIGINAL: chris kilby


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr Gittes

FINALLY! Someone else brings up Straw Dogs! It was really starting to get on my nerves that people kept bringing up Home Alone and (from what I've read anyway - if you did, then kudos) nobody had mentioned the climax of Straw Dogs. Y'know, the movie made before Home Alone with a showdown which is infinitely more influential and similar to the one in Skyfall. Are there that many people who haven't seen SD that Home Alone is constantly mentioned instead? I'm not trying to be a movie snob; if you haven't seen it, then fair enough. I'm just shocked that so few people have brought it up.


Cheers. At least there was one person I didn't put to sleep with my boundless enthusiasm and hopelessly cineaste ways. On the dedicated website of "The World's Biggest Movie Magazine," no less. Christ, if you can't (film) geek out here without getting trolled for it then where can you? So shoot me if I actually enjoy watching movies unlike some of the dead-eyed joy-stranglers (and humourless fuckwits) you trip over online who think it's their divine right to treat everything they watch like it's an endurance test or personal insult directed at them specifically. Jaysus! Some people...

(If it isn't too wanky, Mr Gittes, you've got me thinking that with Bond haunted by the past and forced to endure the consequences of his own injuries for the duration of the film, perhaps Skyfall was influenced by Chinatown as well. And before anyone else accuses Skyfall of "plagiarism," nothing exists in a vacuum and everything influences everything else. Chinatown, itself a forties noir pastiche filtered through the cynical lens of the seventies and the prism of Roman Polanski's own personal horrors, being a prime example of this. Coffee, anyone? Or Pro-Plus, perhaps...?)

I feel your pain, man. There are times where it drives me insane, but at least there's comfort in knowing that there are people (such as yourself) who have a genuine enthusiasm for film and appreciate that it's just a matter of opinion.

Nice Chinatown comparison. Hadn't really thought of that one but it does fit well. And of course, you're right about influences. I'm not saying this is of the same quality, but if people are going to call Skyfall a ripoff, then they cannot ignore movies like, say, Once Upon A Time In The West; jam-packed with influences from the westerns before it (the most obvious being High Noon - how can you not think of that movie when you see that opening?). Not to mention, every Tarantino movie does a LOT of stealing from other movies. I guess you can tell that this is another thing that bothers me; people accusing a movie of being a ripoff, while ignoring other cases of movies full of influences just because they like them.

I don't mind a heavily-influenced movie as long as (and I know this won't make much sense) all the influences build up to a somehow fresh and interesting whole. So, back on topic, this is the case with Skyfall. IN MY OPINION, anyway. Sorry, I hate using caps to emphasise a point, but when people ignore the point that much, can you blame me?


And you'll never guess where exactly that pain is located...

Then there's Star Wars, of course. Christ, where do you start? Flash Gordon, King Arthur, Kurosawa, John Ford, The Dam Busters, The Wizard of Oz, Laurel and Hardy, etc, etc, etc. Minor talents plagiarise, great artists steal.

And what goes around comes around. Star Wars in turn became one of the most influential films of all time in its own right. No Star Wars, no science fiction boom of the 70s and 80s. That means no Star Wars, no Star Trek movies to recently re-boot, no Alien and no Blade Runner (which, ouroboros-style, clearly influenced the Star Wars prequels, especially Episode II). And no Star Wars, no ILM, no effects and CG revolution which means no LOTR, Titanic or Avatar either. Or Life of Pi. Indeed, without Star Wars we probably wouldn't have Ridley Scott, James Cameron or David Fincher. Not as we know them, certainly. Before Star Wars, Scott's next film would have been Tristan and Isolde, not Alien. Fincher started as a teen at ILM (he's credited on Return of the Jedi and Temple of Doom) and, by his own admission, Cameron would still be driving a truck!

(And by popularising the work of Joseph Campbell, Star Wars established the "hero's journey" template slavishly adhered to by The Matrix, Harry Potter and Avatar. And having influenced The Dark Knight Trilogy as well, Joseph Campbell has also indirectly influenced Skyfall which emphasises that like Bruce Wayne, Harry Potter and Luke Skywalker, James Bond is also an orphan with serious dead parent issues!)

About the only film series anywhere near as culturally influential as Star Wars is James Bond who single-handedly inspired the whole super-spy sub-genre which is still with us today in the form of Mission: Impossible and Bourne. Bond also inspired Leone's spaghetti westerns (just look at the title sequences!), Indiana Jones (it wasn't a coincidence that Indy's dad was James Bond) and Star Wars, of course. While Bond in turn has been influenced over the years by, among other things, blaxploitation (Live and Let Die), chop-socky (The Man With The Golden Gun) and - yup, you guessed it - Star Wars (Moonraker). And on and on it goes. Bond inspired Bourne who inspired Bond.

Yours windily...

(I can't believe I missed High Noon, BTW. Yet another obvious influence on Skyfall's climax. The thieving bastard!)


< Message edited by chris kilby -- 21/2/2013 12:23:54 PM >

(in reply to Mr Gittes)
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