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RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:20:41 AM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

I'm going to have to explain the shaking hand argument further aren't I.

Look, I have never, ever said I wouldn't want to rip that persons head off, cut their balls off... the most sadistic form of reactionary of punishment you can think of etc. I'd probably never want them released from prison either. But would I do that to sacrifice my own principles about who I am as a person? No.

Any wrong doing done by another will never, ever undo my own principles. So however bitter and horrible this hypothetical handshake would be, I would still recognise the good they had done as good.

But that does not for one second mean I wouldn't recognise the bad they had done as bad. Please don't fail to acknowledge that as it makes this argument quite tired and makes me sound like I'm somehow failing to see their crimes for what they are.

< Message edited by jon5000 -- 1/10/2012 11:21:02 AM >

(in reply to King_Bard)

Post #: 61

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:29:50 AM

DancingClown

Posts: 3551
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Failing to see the argument and clearly disagreeing with my own personal point of view, you have decided to jump aboard some righteous crusade and essentially accuse me of insulting the millions who died in the holocaust in that sentence. Nice.

Now just hang on a bloody minute please. I'm not failing to see your argument. I see your argument, I understand what you're trying to say, but your argument is flawed and misguided, that is my opinion on your argument. Claiming that we "just don't understand" is rather childish. I'm not jumping on a band-wagon, I felt honestly dismayed and puzzled by what you have been saying, so I had to comment. If I agreed with you, I would say so. But what you said is an insult and demonstrates either a spectacular naivety on your behalf or a genuine lack of perspective. If you realise why it was somewhat insulting then man-up and say it was a mistake, a foolish analogy that with all the best intentions came across as crass and half-witted. That was your doing, Jon.

quote:

I personally see a good deed as a good deed, as I have explained several times above. I do not see that as nonsensical. I see that as right in a civilised society.

Yes, a good deed is a good deed. But a good deed doesn't necessarily make a bad person good. Altruism can be self-serving, especially if it is intended to mask some evil-doing. You don't seem to grasp that. If Savile allegedly did abuse those kids then how can we applaud his charity work with any sincerity. Yes, I'm sure the money raised improved many lives, but that cannot excuse his behaviour or lessen our dismay at what he allegedly did. Good deeds can still be made with bad intentions. It's simple. Not all of the time obviously.

quote:

So yes, in some hypothetical world - I would want to see Hitler get the full force of retribution possible for his heinous crimes, but I would not write off any hypothetical good deed he might have done prior.

What do you mean by "not write off"? This is where the confusion is. Yes, someone may have benefitted from the good deed, but at the same time it doesn't redeem his character. Right? If "yes" then what are we arguing about?

quote:

I can assure you I'm not trying to save face in this argument I genuinely believe good is good.

So do we all. But you're refusing to accept that sometimes a good deed, whilst beneficial for someone (like with my hospital analogy), can be used to mask something sinister. You don't seem to think that matters, as long as the deed itself is "good". That's where the flaw in your argument is. If someone used to be a bad person, and then dedicated their lives to doing good as penance, then I think we would all find that more acceptable.

quote:

You clearly all disagree with that point of view, fine. But don't try and weasel any kind of righteous argument here. I have never, ever said that an evil act isn't an evil act. Not once. So please don't imply that I have. That really is insulting.

You've been implying it yourself, Jon. Nothing to do with us.

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Post #: 62

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:53:39 AM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

I don't think I have to 'man-up' and say it was a mistake because I genuinely don't believe my argument is insulting if you understand where I'm coming from. You can make it insulting if you wish, but I've not once said what Hitler or Jimmy Saville might have done wasn't bad or absolute evil. Not once.

The consistent argument here you are all pedaling against me is that his good deeds are now tainted because of what he might have done. Well, that's personal opinion isn't it. It doesn't stop the good he has done from being good. I'm sure I could find just as many examples of peoples' lives he made a positive difference to.

I just do not like public opinion as a moral judgement. None of us know anything about what Jimmy Saville may or may not have done to underage girls aside from what his documentary is alleged to imply. But we do know, factually, that he did a lot of good. I am saying that shouldn't change regardless of what comes to light. You all disagree. Fair enough.

And it regard the blurring example what if he did all of this charity work to get close to those he wanted to abuse... well, to me that's a Sun reader horror story isn't it. An absolute worst case scenario. Absolutely baseless at this moment in time. Yes, there have been examples of people apparently doing 'good' when their real intentions are far more sinister. And I'm sure there are examples of people doing 'good' to somehow mask whatever bad they have done. But these are knee jerk hypothetical panics aren't they. Nothing more. Public opinion at its worst.

I have to be contrarian here because I do not like public speculation. Unless you can clear cut prove to me that Jimmy Saville raised �40 million for charity to get at underage girls, I am going to have to ignore that argument completely as it would be ignored in a court of law. I'm sorry, but it is entirely muddied public interpretation. Completely devoid of base.

< Message edited by jon5000 -- 1/10/2012 6:10:14 PM >

(in reply to DancingClown)

Post #: 63

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:56:24 AM

rawlinson

Posts: 40176
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

Yeah, the basic point should surely be as (I think it was Elab) pointed out, his charity work could just have been a cover to protect the public image and to gain access to victims. And these allegations have been lingering around for a lot of years, anyone remember that faked HIGNFY transcript? Also, there's a lot of other unpleasant stories attached to the man. I'm not saying anything as silly as no smoke without fire, I'm just saying that there's a history of these claims. This just seems to be the most direct.

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Post #: 64

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 11:59:40 AM

rawlinson

Posts: 40176
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

And it regard the blurring example what if he did all of this charity work to get close to those he wanted to abuse... well, to me that's a Sun reader horror story isn't it. An absolute worst case scenario. Absolutely baseless at this moment in time. Yes, there have been examples of people apparently doing 'good' when their real intentions are far more sinister. And I'm sure there are examples of people doing 'good' to somehow mask whatever bad they have done. But these are knee jerk hypothetical panics aren't they. Nothing more. Public opinion at its worst.

I have to be contrarian here because I do not like public speculation. Unless you can clear cut prove to me that Jimmy Saville raised �40 million for charity to get at underage girls, I am going to have to ignore that argument completely as it would be ignored in a court of law. I'm sorry, but it is entirely muddied public interpretation. Completely devoid of base.

No, it's a response to your claims that the charity work should still stand. It's common sense to say that if it's proven that the man abused children, his charity work shouldn't be a reason to say anything nice about him, because it could simply have been part of his cover. You really are making yourself look ridiculous here.

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Post #: 65

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:10:52 PM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

quote:

ORIGINAL: rawlinson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

And it regard the blurring example what if he did all of this charity work to get close to those he wanted to abuse... well, to me that's a Sun reader horror story isn't it. An absolute worst case scenario. Absolutely baseless at this moment in time. Yes, there have been examples of people apparently doing 'good' when their real intentions are far more sinister. And I'm sure there are examples of people doing 'good' to somehow mask whatever bad they have done. But these are knee jerk hypothetical panics aren't they. Nothing more. Public opinion at its worst.

I have to be contrarian here because I do not like public speculation. Unless you can clear cut prove to me that Jimmy Saville raised �40 million for charity to get at underage girls, I am going to have to ignore that argument completely as it would be ignored in a court of law. I'm sorry, but it is entirely muddied public interpretation. Completely devoid of base.

No, it's a response to your claims that the charity work should still stand. It's common sense to say that if it's proven that the man abused children, his charity work shouldn't be a reason to say anything nice about him, because it could simply have been part of his cover. You really are making yourself look ridiculous here

This is really is like beginning to feel like talking to several brick walls. I'm sorry to use that analogy but to accuse me of beginning to look ridiculous is a cheap argument and deserves that kind of response.

You and others are assessing his charity work completely suspect if these claims turn out to be true. I am saying, as I am sure would be said in a court of law, that isn't the case. His charity work would and should be continued to be recognise as such. Doing good.

I absolutely loath public opinion as I have said before, and all of your arguments are entirely speculatory in my opinion. No good he has done should be written off even if he's proven to be an abuser of underage girls.

And the best part is, I genuinely don't believe anything will change. He will not be stripped of any awards. Even if the allegations are 100% proven, I believe people with the powers to do so would more than likely agree with me. There is absolutely no way you can prove that he did this charity work to mask sinister acts. No way whatsoever. I'm sorry but that to me is ridiculous. All you can do is speculate. And thankfully that holds absolutely no validity whatsoever because public opinion is completely worthless as an indicator of judgement and should always be so.

< Message edited by jon5000 -- 1/10/2012 12:18:05 PM >

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Post #: 66

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:26:29 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3551
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

I just do not like public opinion as a moral judgement. None of us know anything about what Jimmy Saville may or may not have done to underage girls aside from what his documentary is alleged to imply. But we do know, factually, that he did a lot of good. I am saying that shouldn't change regardless of what comes to light. You all disagree. Fair enough.

You see, that's where the problem lies. He did a lot for childrens' charities. These allegations involve children. If his wrongdoing - with children - was fully substantiated and proved that would still not alter your praise for his work...with children...? Do you not understand how bizarre that sounds?

quote:

And it regard the blurring example what if he did all of this charity work to get close to those he wanted to abuse... well, to me that's a Sun reader horror story isn't it. An absolute worst case scenario. Absolutely baseless at this moment in time. Yes, there have been examples of people apparently doing 'good' when their real intentions are far more sinister. And I'm sure there are examples of people doing 'good' to somehow mask whatever bad they have done. But these are knee jerk hypothetical panics aren't they. Nothing more. Public opinion at its worst.

I'm fairly sure that we all understand that this is speculation until the truth - if there is any - outs. But this is not where the argument lies, despite your attempts to divert its focus.You yourself are indulging in just as much hypothetical conjecture as anyone else just by participating in the thread.

Okay, here's the deal. Let's assume he's guilty:

1 - We all acknowledge that he raised a lot of money for charity, money that would've improved people's lives, and that their lives will stay improved regardless.
2 - We all acknowledge that if found guilty somehow then the charity work does not negate the evil of the alleged crimes and that he is still a "bad" person. Right? We all seem to agree with this, you included, Jon.

But you need to clarify your position. What exactly are you saying if you agree with the above two statements? I think it's the notion that you would still "shake his hand" for the charity work, despite knowing what he's capable of, that has the rest of us scratching our heads in disbelief, because that is an act of forgiveness in a way.

< Message edited by DancingClown -- 1/10/2012 12:30:35 PM >

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Post #: 67

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:27:40 PM

rawlinson

Posts: 40176
Joined: 13/6/2008
From: Timbuktu. Chinese or Fictional.

Look at this statement you made

quote:

Again call me out on this as much as you like, but yes... I genuinely would. It would probably be the most awkward handshake ever but if that person had made a positive difference to the lives of others I couldn't argue with it I'm sorry. I would want them to serve a sentence in jail but I genuinely wouldn't wish to take away the acknowledgement for the good they have done.

Now if you'd said you could separate morality from art, I'd agree with you. If you said you'd think he was evil, but hoped it wouldn't be too much of a blow to the people who his charity helped, I'd understand. But right there you're saying you could look at a man who raped your child and shake his hand. Forget about how it makes you feel, think about how much of a betrayal that would be to your child, to know that their father had shook the hand of someone who abused them. That's not being principled. It's being ridiculous.

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Post #: 68

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:34:56 PM

King_Bard

Posts: 6296
Joined: 25/9/2006

Whether he did the charity work for good or not is personally not the point for me. If a person is found out to have abused a young child than this person is the lowest of the low. Their good deeds for me would count for nothing.

I think your argument is ridiculous and just plain insulting to anyone who has been abused or is the parent of a abused child.

(in reply to jon5000)

Post #: 69

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:39:14 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3551
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

And look at this statement you made:

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

But that aside, I affirm my belief that doing good is doing good. Even if Hitler had done a charity run and raised some money before he became an evil bastard I would commend him for that. Off setting acts of good against acts of evil seems bizarre to me.

It is insulting. And it is moronic. "Good morning, Mr Hitler, I was going to condemn you for slaughtering millions but ever since I heard about that fun-run back in '32 I'm starting to see you in a more positive light! Although...it's not you I'm really commending, because you're an evil cunt, it's the act itself, which was good, although it wouldn't have happened without you...an evil cunt...erm..."

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Post #: 70

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:40:12 PM

sharkboy

Posts: 6026
Joined: 26/9/2005
From: Belfast

For me, I guess it boils down to the fact that if even �100 of that �40 million was raised through an event orchestrated by Saville to facilitate access to underage girls, then that casts a very deep, dark and permanent shadow over the remaining �39,999,900. I don't think anyone would deny that the charity money he raised made some very real changes for the better. But if the allegations of ulterior motive have any substance then you've got to ask yourself at what cost? What causes me some degree of concern is that there have been long-standing allegations that his involvement in some of the charities was specifically to allow him to satisfy certain of his sexual cravings, which, if true, would see to indicate some form in this area.

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Post #: 71

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:41:47 PM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

But you need to clarify your position. What exactly are you saying if you agree with the above two statements? I think it's the notion that you would still "shake his hand" for the charity work, despite knowing what he's capable of, that has the rest of us scratching our heads in disbelief, because that is an act of forgiveness in a way.

Ah, okay. So you and others see shaking the hand of somebody, who had hypothetically done a huge amount of wrong to me personally, in acknowledgment of their charity work to others is an act of forgiveness on my part, hypothetically.

I would affirm that it isn't. And in no way should be seen as such. Personally, I would probably be angry for the rest of my life. But my own morals would and should never 'undo' that work he did for charity. It shouldn't come into it. That acknowledgement is and always be should be completely impartial and separate. I really couldn't care less about what shaking the hand of an abuser in recognition for their charity work looks like in the eyes of the public, as an act of forgiveness or whatever. I just see it as the right thing to do, morally.

You all seem to think I am 'bat shit crazy' or 'ridiculous' for this belief, but I am quite sure that is how the matter would be dealt with in a court of law. Thankfully.

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Post #: 72

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 12:46:45 PM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

quote:

ORIGINAL: DancingClown

And look at this statement you made:

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

But that aside, I affirm my belief that doing good is doing good. Even if Hitler had done a charity run and raised some money before he became an evil bastard I would commend him for that. Off setting acts of good against acts of evil seems bizarre to me.

It is insulting. And it is moronic. "Good morning, Mr Hitler, I was going to condemn you for slaughtering millions but ever since I heard about that fun-run back in '32 I'm starting to see you in a more positive light! Although...it's not you I'm really commending, because you're an evil cunt, it's the act itself, which was good, although it wouldn't have happened without you...an evil cunt...erm..."

Moronic. Lovely. Ok, this is becoming petty. I haven't once said I would see Hitler or Jimmy Saville in a more positive light. Not once. I just do not wish to undo any good they may have done, completely hypothetically in Hitler's case. But thanks for spinning and adding what I said there.

You don't agree with my belief that good is good. Fair enough.

I am not going to waver on this because those are my morals. But thanks for the engagement I guess.

(in reply to DancingClown)

Post #: 73

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:05:38 PM

superdan

Posts: 7215
Joined: 31/7/2008

How much money do I have to give to charity to get my neighbour to put up with me killing his dog? The little fucker's been barking since 6am and with the hangover I'v got I'm seriously considering going through with it.

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Post #: 74

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:14:55 PM

jon5000

Posts: 1087
Joined: 29/3/2007
From: LA

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

How much money do I have to give to charity to get my neighbour to put up with me killing his dog? The little fucker's been barking since 6am and with the hangover I'v got I'm seriously considering going through with it.

Ok. If that is what you genuinely believe I'm implying with my belief that good is good, then you don't deserve a constructive reply.

I am done here.

Thanks for the occasional intelligent rebuttal. I'm sure I won't be missed.

(in reply to superdan)

Post #: 75

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:16:13 PM

superdan

Posts: 7215
Joined: 31/7/2008

It was a joke. Shake the sand out of your vagina.

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Post #: 76

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:19:18 PM

MonsterCat

Posts: 6208
Joined: 24/3/2011
From: St. Albans, Hertfordshire

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

It was a joke. Shake the sand out of your vagina.

Never heard this phrase used before. I like it.

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Post #: 77

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:19:35 PM

Hood_Man

Posts: 11270
Joined: 30/9/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: superdan

How much money do I have to give to charity to get my neighbour to put up with me killing his dog? The little fucker's been barking since 6am and with the hangover I'v got I'm seriously considering going through with it.

Give me �50 and you can do what you like with it, I'll absolve you of your sins.

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Post #: 78

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:21:31 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3551
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

quote:

ORIGINAL: jon5000

Moronic. Lovely. Ok, this is becoming petty. I haven't once said I would see Hitler or Jimmy Saville in a more positive light. Not once. I just do not wish to undo any good they may have done, completely hypothetically in Hitler's case.

For the love of god you are just arguing with yourself here. How is condeming their characters for what they did going to "undo" their supposed good? What do you even mean by "undo" anyway? It won't just magically vanish. But the presence of a lesser, suppposed decent act is not a "get out of being a vile cunt" free-card.

quote:

ou don't agree with my belief that good is good. Fair enough.

What the hell are you talking about!!!! Of course we agree that "good is good". The benefits of a good act may remain intact despite any further machinations of the do-gooder...it is your attitude towards the person in question that is under the spotlight here for fuck's sake!! You said you would commend the act....but the act cannot be achieved without the actions of the person involved...so the person involved - be it Hitler, Saville or fucking Genghis Khan - will be part of your commendation. Jesus fucking Christ, this is such flailing, gibbering bollocks!!!

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Post #: 79

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 1:27:41 PM

elab49

Posts: 51561
Joined: 1/10/2005

This discussion is maybe getting a tad off-piste and the tone is ratcheting up a little? Maybe a deep breath? And if you disagree with Jon at least remember he's entitled to his opinion just like all of us. For every Gordon Wilson there are probably the most of is who'd punch the perpetrator in the face. I'd be the latter tbh.

< Message edited by elab49 -- 1/10/2012 1:28:16 PM >

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Post #: 80

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 2:05:48 PM

jonson

Posts: 8060
Joined: 30/9/2005

I find it all incredibly sad actually. Being brought up on Jim'll Fix It as a kid, and defending his right to wear garish tracksuits and looking a bit noncey over the years (I may yet be proved wrong then) it's such a shame that this has come out. Many people will be saying "told you so", his placard will be ripped down from many a charity wall and that bloke who paid a few hundred quid for his Jim'll Fix It chair probably feels a bit dirty this morning.
I even wrote to him when I was 11 asking if I could swim with sharks. I have this image now of him playing with himself while looking at the photo I enclosed, jingle jangle.

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Post #: 81

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 6:27:40 PM

sanchia

Posts: 16697
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Norwich

End of the day at this time nothing has been proven and these are allegations. There may be truth to it or there may not be only time will tell.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19788721

It appears he was questioned in 2007 but no actions were taken as there was insufficient evidence.

< Message edited by sanchia -- 1/10/2012 7:00:24 PM >

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Post #: 82

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 7:09:54 PM

Shifty Bench

Posts: 14558
Joined: 30/9/2005

Paul Gambaccini makes a very big claim (something that has been said in this very thread)- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/paul-gambaccini-claims-sir-jimmy-savile-used-charity-work-to-prevent-sexual-abuse-of-schoolchildren-being-exposed-8191761.html

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Post #: 83

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 7:25:52 PM

LEEJGM

Posts: 1026
Joined: 21/12/2005

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

I find it all incredibly sad actually. Being brought up on Jim'll Fix It as a kid, and defending his right to wear garish tracksuits and looking a bit noncey over the years (I may yet be proved wrong then) it's such a shame that this has come out. Many people will be saying "told you so", his placard will be ripped down from many a charity wall and that bloke who paid a few hundred quid for his Jim'll Fix It chair probably feels a bit dirty this morning.
I even wrote to him when I was 11 asking if I could swim with sharks. I have this image now of him playing with himself while looking at the photo I enclosed, jingle jangle.

I know we shouldn't laugh but that there was damn funny.

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Post #: 84

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 7:38:33 PM

Scruffybobby

Posts: 4021
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: My House

What I find really sad about this, is that it isn't shocking. Not because I always thought there was something going on- not at all - but because it somehow seems inevitable.It's tragic to think that I become so jaded that a much admired figure from my childhood being indicted in this way is just another grotty news story. I ought to be shocked, appalled, outraged but I'm just - not. Is the world really so fucked up that this means nothing? Holy shit that's depressing

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Post #: 85

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 9:07:19 PM

Super Hans

Posts: 2291
Joined: 30/9/2005
From: Watford

quote:

ORIGINAL: LEEJGM

quote:

ORIGINAL: jonson

I find it all incredibly sad actually. Being brought up on Jim'll Fix It as a kid, and defending his right to wear garish tracksuits and looking a bit noncey over the years (I may yet be proved wrong then) it's such a shame that this has come out. Many people will be saying "told you so", his placard will be ripped down from many a charity wall and that bloke who paid a few hundred quid for his Jim'll Fix It chair probably feels a bit dirty this morning.
I even wrote to him when I was 11 asking if I could swim with sharks. I have this image now of him playing with himself while looking at the photo I enclosed, jingle jangle.

I know we shouldn't laugh but that there was damn funny.

It was the comment about the chair which I'm ashamed to say made me chuckle...

In all seriousness though, serious allegations there and that Independent article is pretty damning if true. We shall see I suppose.

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"Its staring at you in the face Mark, there's only one more sex to try..."

(in reply to LEEJGM)

Post #: 86

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 9:26:10 PM

DancingClown

Posts: 3551
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: The Lot

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/sir-jimmy-saville-defended-paedophile-pop-star-gary-glitter-saying-he-did-nothing-wrong-and-calling-child-porn-just-dodgy-films-8192715.html

All rather unsavoury.

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Astronomic Tune Boy

'The town knew darkness, and darkness was enough.'

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(in reply to Super Hans)

Post #: 87

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 9:28:31 PM

Fluke Skywalker

Posts: 9540
Joined: 23/4/2006
From: the dark side of the sun

�On another occasion, and this cuts to the chase of the whole matter, he was called and he said 'well you could run that story, but if you do there goes the funds that come in to Stoke Mandeville - do you want to be responsible for the drying up of the charity donations'. And they backed down.�

Jim Fix'd it for himself the dirty bastard!

(in reply to Super Hans)

Post #: 88

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 9:34:39 PM

donethinking

Posts: 430
Joined: 24/4/2012
From: Haggisland

wow that was fast...http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jim-Fucked-It-For-T-Shirt/dp/B005HDIO3U

< Message edited by donethinking -- 1/10/2012 9:37:22 PM >

(in reply to Fluke Skywalker)

Post #: 89

RE: Allegations of Jimmy Saville - 1/10/2012 9:37:39 PM

UTB